Who's in on the conspiracy? Info for the FAQ

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Who's in on the conspiracy? Info for the FAQ
« on: July 12, 2007, 05:40:24 AM »
With all of the work Gulliver has done on his RE Primer, I thought it was about time we helped out on the FE FAQ. In this instance, I wanted to help expand on who's in on the conspiracy (or has been in the past) and what their motive is, as the information currently in the FAQ is rather lacking. Feel free to add to this!

Eratosthenes, Posidonius, and Ptolemy
The men that kicked it all off, by carrying out independent experiments in Ancient Greece that supposedly showed that the Earth was round and not flat.

Why?
We don't know, but it was probably money.

Who else is involved?
Everyone that replicates the experiment and talks about it to perpetuate the myth. Anyone who buys the basic equipment will have their costs refunded by the government and a free holiday to the ice wall for a long weekend.

The Ice Wall Guards
These guys are busy protecting the 78,000 mile long ice wall and whatever lies beyond it. Nobody has ever heard a squeek from them.

Why?
We don't know, but it probably involves money. To keep them all quiet, the governments of the world must be rewarding them well. To keep them happy, they probably have their own World of Warcraft servers for recreation, bars, casinos and brothels. If they weren't happy, they could cause havok in the rest of the world if they revolted. Computer simulations have shown that if they all jumped up and down at the same time, they would cause a tidle wave that would engulf all of the world's continents.

Who else is involved?
The governments who supply the soldiers, Blizzard entertainment, and all the bar staff, croupiers and prostitutes.

The Governments
This goes without saying, of course. Starting from ancient Greece, all governments were gradually coerced into supporting the conspiracy. All of the apparent disagreements over policy or ideology were faked or set aside in the greater evil of the round earth conspiracy. Saddam Hussein was heard to say on the way to the gallows, "Remember, infidels, that the world is round!"

Why?
Well, that's like asking why America invaded Iraq! It's money, of course! Maybe there are oil or gold reserves beyond the ice wall. Maybe the secret to eternal life is beyond the ice wall. Maybe there is lots of ice beyond the ice wall.

Who else is involved?
Everyone who works for the governments. If the governments are protecting oil reserves, then the oil companies must also be involved (potentially faking their oil extractions elsewhere or maintaining artificially high prices). The space agencies are obviously involved too.

NASA, ESA, RSA, etc.
All of the space agencies, both government controlled and commercial are involved, faking the sending of satellites and inter-planetary probes into "orbit". In reality, they are firing them into the sea near the ice wall.

Why?
We don't really know, but it must be money. The government is putting billions of dollars into these agencies, which is probably spent by the agency administrators on rewarding the people who carry out the Eratosthenes experiments, as well as their own trips to the the bars and brothels beyond the ice wall.

Who else is involved?
The scientists who create the interplanetary probes, which obviously never go anywhere. Satellite navigation companies. Satellite broadcasting companies. Richard Branson and his Virgin Galactic firm.

Airline Pilots
Most pilots would probably never claim to see the curvature of the earth, but they would certainly claim to navigate along great circle routes in both hemispheres of a round earth.

Why?
We don't really know, but it's probably money. After all, they can't paid that huge salary just because of the stress, long hours and the fact that they are responsible for hundreds of lives. They're paid to keep their mouths shut about the fact they travel at supersonic speeds in the southern hemisphere and that a route from Australia to Chile does, in fact, take them up the Western seaboard of north and south America and near to the north pole.

Who else is involved?
The airline companies, of course. The air traffic controllers. The passengers. People at ground level who have witnessed Boeing 747s passing overhead at supersonic speeds, leaving behind 747-sized sonic booms.

Australians
They would maintain to the world that the shape of their continent is approximately two times the distance east to west as it is north to south, as this fits in nicely with the round earth model. In fact, Australia is at least 4 times the distance east to west as it is north to south.

Why?
We don't know, but it must be money. They are probably too drunk and too busy having "barbies" to notice what shape their continent really is in any case.

Who else is involved?
Anyone else who maintains that the shape of their world is inconsistent with a flat earth. So, that means anyone in South America and Africa in particular. Most Africans, of course, do a great job in hiding the wealth that they earn from the conspiracy.

Scientists
Astronomers keep making "findings" about the universe that simply aren't possible in a flat earth. Solar observers keep showing computer generated images of the ball of fire they call the sun.

Why?
Money, of course. All scientists are secretly stinking rich, but outwardly only show the living circumstances of a research income.

Who else is involved?
Publishers of research journals. Teachers. The programmers who have written the sophisticated computer imagery software since the 1950s.

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The Communist

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Re: Who's in on the conspiracy? Info for the FAQ
« Reply #1 on: July 12, 2007, 05:48:13 AM »
This goes to show that the Conspiracy must involve numerous people of varying professions rather than the Few People Theorem.
« Last Edit: July 12, 2007, 07:53:29 AM by The Communist »
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Carbiens

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Re: Who's in on the conspiracy? Info for the FAQ
« Reply #2 on: July 12, 2007, 06:05:01 AM »


Who else is involved?
all the bar staff and prostitutes.


* Carbiens gives Gayer the shifty eyes
I'm almost able to read retardeese without any trouble now.  YAY.

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divito the truthist

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Re: Who's in on the conspiracy? Info for the FAQ
« Reply #3 on: July 12, 2007, 06:57:23 AM »
With all of the work Gulliver has done on his RE Primer, I thought it was about time we helped out on the FE FAQ. In this instance, I wanted to help expand on who's in on the conspiracy (or has been in the past) and what their motive is, as the information currently in the FAQ is rather lacking. Feel free to add to this!

Eratosthenes, Posidonius, and Ptolemy

Wrong. They did not need to be in on the conspiracy.

The Ice Wall Guards
These guys are busy protecting the 78,000 mile long ice wall and whatever lies beyond it. Nobody has ever heard a squeek from them.

Why?

Could be a number of reasons for why. For one, they could be told anything regarding a detail in Antarctica. They are not required to be in on the conspiracy.

The Governments
This goes without saying, of course. Starting from ancient Greece, all governments were gradually coerced into supporting the conspiracy. All of the apparent disagreements over policy or ideology were faked or set aside in the greater evil of the round earth conspiracy. Saddam Hussein was heard to say on the way to the gallows, "Remember, infidels, that the world is round!"

Wrong again. Governments are not required to be in on the conspiracy, but it's likely a few would know. Space agencies of governments and "private" ones are obviously needed to be involved however.

Why?
We don't really know, but it must be money. The government is putting billions of dollars into these agencies, which is probably spent by the agency administrators on rewarding the people who carry out the Eratosthenes experiments, as well as their own trips to the the bars and brothels beyond the ice wall.

Not surprised by your stupid assumption.

Airline Pilots
Most pilots would probably never claim to see the curvature of the earth, but they would certainly claim to navigate along great circle routes in both hemispheres of a round earth.

Why would they never claim to see it? It still doesn't prove anything. You're doing a terrible job so far.

Scientists
Astronomers keep making "findings" about the universe that simply aren't possible in a flat earth.

Care to share?

Solar observers keep showing computer generated images of the ball of fire they call the sun.

Is the sun not round?

As for the stuff I didn't comment on, it was just too stupid to bother.
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Re: Who's in on the conspiracy? Info for the FAQ
« Reply #4 on: July 12, 2007, 07:10:18 AM »
Divito, your response almost made me laugh out loud at my desk in a busy office.

Brilliant. Simply, brilliant.

 ???

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divito the truthist

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Re: Who's in on the conspiracy? Info for the FAQ
« Reply #5 on: July 12, 2007, 07:14:38 AM »
If your original post was more so a joke, I apologize. Many people are dense enough to make the assertions made in your post, so I took the post as serious.
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Carbiens

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Re: Who's in on the conspiracy? Info for the FAQ
« Reply #6 on: July 12, 2007, 07:16:01 AM »
Divito is in on it i reckon
I'm almost able to read retardeese without any trouble now.  YAY.

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divito the truthist

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Re: Who's in on the conspiracy? Info for the FAQ
« Reply #7 on: July 12, 2007, 07:16:39 AM »
Divito is in on it i reckon

If so, I'm incredibly underpaid.
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Chris Spaghetti

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Re: Who's in on the conspiracy? Info for the FAQ
« Reply #8 on: July 12, 2007, 07:47:38 AM »
Land and Hydrographic Surveyors

Architects of tall buildings

Telecoms companies

The engineers who build the radiotowers instead of satelites

Round the world Yacht Racers

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The Communist

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Re: Who's in on the conspiracy? Info for the FAQ
« Reply #9 on: July 12, 2007, 07:57:12 AM »
Those yacht racers are wealthy enough ot control the governments and conspiracy.
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Re: Who's in on the conspiracy? Info for the FAQ
« Reply #10 on: July 12, 2007, 07:59:47 AM »
The Ice Wall Guards

The ice wall guards don't need to be in on the conspiracy.  They could just be positioned soldiers told what to do that act approprietly.

Re: Who's in on the conspiracy? Info for the FAQ
« Reply #11 on: July 12, 2007, 08:02:48 AM »
Land and Hydrographic Surveyors

Architects of tall buildings

Telecoms companies

The engineers who build the radiotowers instead of satelites

Round the world Yacht Racers

I always thought Ellen MacArthur looked a bit shifty.

Google must be in on it. "Do no evil" my arse, what about Google Earth?

Re: Who's in on the conspiracy? Info for the FAQ
« Reply #12 on: July 12, 2007, 08:09:20 AM »
Google must be in on it. "Do no evil" my arse, what about Google Earth?

Search it, it could help.

Re: Who's in on the conspiracy? Info for the FAQ
« Reply #13 on: July 12, 2007, 10:15:29 AM »
The Ice Wall Guards

The ice wall guards don't need to be in on the conspiracy.  They could just be positioned soldiers told what to do that act approprietly.

Imagine the briefing:

"Right then, chaps. We have to defend this here wall of ice for queen and country. We can't tell you why, as it's a secret. When you write home, make sure you tell your family you're in Iraq, and not on a wall of ice, with only seals for food. Oh, and if you should happen across any civilians around here, tell them they're in the wrong place and that you've heard the north pole is really quite nice at this time of the year.

"See you in 6 months, fellas!"

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Ferdinand Magellen

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Re: Who's in on the conspiracy? Info for the FAQ
« Reply #14 on: July 12, 2007, 11:38:12 AM »
Don't forget Galileo and Magellen and everyone else who managed to sail/fly around the world or looked through a telescope.
Ignoring the truth does not make it go away, it just makes you ignorant and disempowered.

Can you change reality by inventing new names for ordinary things?

Re: Who's in on the conspiracy? Info for the FAQ
« Reply #15 on: July 12, 2007, 12:03:36 PM »
Imagine the briefing:

"Right then, chaps. We have to defend this here wall of ice for queen and country. We can't tell you why, as it's a secret. When you write home, make sure you tell your family you're in Iraq, and not on a wall of ice, with only seals for food. Oh, and if you should happen across any civilians around here, tell them they're in the wrong place and that you've heard the north pole is really quite nice at this time of the year.

"See you in 6 months, fellas!"

They don't need any kind of explanatory briefing, especially mention of the ice wall.  They could simply be told that they cannot let anyone pass a given area, and to use force as directed.  That's all they need to know, and with that information, can only wonder what they're doing there and nothing more.

Re: Who's in on the conspiracy? Info for the FAQ
« Reply #16 on: July 12, 2007, 12:56:20 PM »
Imagine the briefing:

"Right then, chaps. We have to defend this here wall of ice for queen and country. We can't tell you why, as it's a secret. When you write home, make sure you tell your family you're in Iraq, and not on a wall of ice, with only seals for food. Oh, and if you should happen across any civilians around here, tell them they're in the wrong place and that you've heard the north pole is really quite nice at this time of the year.

"See you in 6 months, fellas!"

They don't need any kind of explanatory briefing, especially mention of the ice wall.  They could simply be told that they cannot let anyone pass a given area, and to use force as directed.  That's all they need to know, and with that information, can only wonder what they're doing there and nothing more.
You may be assuming that these blokes aren't smart enough to determine their location by looking at the Sun and stars. You assume that there are enough personnel who can keep a secret and serve in those frigid conditions and provide the needed force. You assume that they would fire upon civilians without question or whistle-blowing. You assume that the contractors supplying the needed supplies wouldn't infer the location and scope of the action.

I've seen people without a security clearance correctly infer the expected number of casualties and the basic environment (desert) associated with an upcoming action (up to four months in advance). An on-going action such as defending the Ice Wall would require security measures well beyond those employed with the current military actions of the United States.

I say that the conspiracy theory requires an enormous amount of effort and resources, and lies beyond credibility.

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divito the truthist

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Re: Who's in on the conspiracy? Info for the FAQ
« Reply #17 on: July 12, 2007, 01:02:50 PM »
You may be assuming that these blokes aren't smart enough to determine their location by looking at the Sun and stars.

I'm sure some 18-year old high school drop out that enlisted can tell his exact location by looking at the stars. Not to mention, they can easily be told they are guarding something in Antarctica which wouldn't be that far from the truth. You're not exactly brought up to question your orders in the military.

You assume that there are enough personnel who can keep a secret and serve in those frigid conditions and provide the needed force. You assume that they would fire upon civilians without question or whistle-blowing. You assume that the contractors supplying the needed supplies wouldn't infer the location and scope of the action.

How many civilians do you propose venture out that far? You also assume they have contractors for a supposed secret? That would be smart of them.

I say that the conspiracy theory requires an enormous amount of effort and resources, and lies beyond credibility.

It's certainly unlikely, but it's certainly not implausible.
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Re: Who's in on the conspiracy? Info for the FAQ
« Reply #18 on: July 12, 2007, 01:11:59 PM »
I say that the conspiracy theory requires an enormous amount of effort and resources, and lies beyond credibility.

I say that you're part of the conspiracy, perpetuating the cover-up. How much are they paying you?

Re: Who's in on the conspiracy? Info for the FAQ
« Reply #19 on: July 12, 2007, 01:43:16 PM »
I say that the conspiracy theory requires an enormous amount of effort and resources, and lies beyond credibility.

I say that you're part of the conspiracy, perpetuating the cover-up. How much are they paying you?
Not enough apparently. :D

Re: Who's in on the conspiracy? Info for the FAQ
« Reply #20 on: July 12, 2007, 02:10:05 PM »
You may be assuming that these blokes aren't smart enough to determine their location by looking at the Sun and stars.

I'm sure some 18-year old high school drop out that enlisted can tell his exact location by looking at the stars. Not to mention, they can easily be told they are guarding something in Antarctica which wouldn't be that far from the truth. You're not exactly brought up to question your orders in the military.
...
Gee, you really seem to have a low opinion of those who serve in the military. I guess that goes with the tinfoil hats that conspiraloons wear. Oh and yes, you are "brought up" to question, at times, your orders. It is explained quite clearly too when, such as in battle, you must not.

First, not everyone in such an action would be high-school dropouts. The technicians, pilots, navigators, commanders, and mechanics would all have reasoning skills inherent with their abilities. It does not take much to notice that the weather is frigid and that the stars are different than at home and that Polaris is missing from the night sky.

Second, there is a definite lack of mothers lamenting that their offspring is suffering, or suffered, in frigid climes. There is a definite lack of veterans sitting around the bar bragging about how cold it was during their tour. There is a definite lack of contractors reporting profits selling cold-weather gear and equipment to the Government.

The conspiracy is beyond credibility.

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Chris Spaghetti

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Re: Who's in on the conspiracy? Info for the FAQ
« Reply #21 on: July 12, 2007, 02:20:03 PM »
Sigh, the ice wall guards were a joke, im sure of it...

Re: Who's in on the conspiracy? Info for the FAQ
« Reply #22 on: July 12, 2007, 02:24:45 PM »
The conspiracy is beyond credibility.

I think the conspiracy is possible only from the philosophical standpoint as it were, along with every other overreaching conspiracy of incredible proportions out there. I mean that in the sense that if it truly is a grand super well orchestrated conspiracy then it is by definition good enough to pull the wool over our eyes no matter what evidence we bring forth (anything can be incorporated into showing just how far the conspiracy has spread). Because of that you could never truly disprove it. Kinda like.. unicorns or fairies. That does not make its exitence even remotely likely however. Possible, strictly speaking, but by no means probable. For all practical purposes it is beyond credibility in my opinion.
Quote
Quote
Hmm... A good solid RE arguement and not an FE'er in sight. ::)
Oh, no...they're here. It's just that damn perspective..

Re: Who's in on the conspiracy? Info for the FAQ
« Reply #23 on: July 12, 2007, 02:39:20 PM »
The conspiracy is beyond credibility.

I think the conspiracy is possible only from the philosophical standpoint as it were, along with every other overreaching conspiracy of incredible proportions out there. I mean that in the sense that if it truly is a grand super well orchestrated conspiracy then it is by definition good enough to pull the wool over our eyes no matter what evidence we bring forth (anything can be incorporated into showing just how far the conspiracy has spread). Because of that you could never truly disprove it. Kinda like.. unicorns or fairies. That does not make its exitence even remotely likely however. Possible, strictly speaking, but by no means probable. For all practical purposes it is beyond credibility in my opinion.
Well said. Top drawer.

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divito the truthist

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Re: Who's in on the conspiracy? Info for the FAQ
« Reply #24 on: July 12, 2007, 02:41:41 PM »
Gee, you really seem to have a low opinion of those who serve in the military.

Not really. Would it make more sense to send an experienced and intelligent soldier to the Ice Wall, or an impressionable and inexperienced one? Less straw men please.

First, not everyone in such an action would be high-school dropouts. The technicians, pilots, navigators, commanders, and mechanics would all have reasoning skills inherent with their abilities. It does not take much to notice that the weather is frigid and that the stars are different than at home and that Polaris is missing from the night sky.

Did I say the weather wasn't frigid in Antarctica? I don't think they would be looking and making sure all the stars are where they should be. And what are these technicians, navigators and mechanics doing there? People are just guarding the Ice Wall. The only pilots necessary are the ones who fly them out there.

Second, there is a definite lack of mothers lamenting that their offspring is suffering, or suffered, in frigid climes. There is a definite lack of veterans sitting around the bar bragging about how cold it was during their tour. There is a definite lack of contractors reporting profits selling cold-weather gear and equipment to the Government.

That's assuming they were told the truth. As for the veterans, who is to say they were ever able to leave?

Gear for cold weather isn't only subject to the Antarctic.

As I've already stated, it's certainly unlikely, but it's certainly not implausible.
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JackASCII

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Re: Who's in on the conspiracy? Info for the FAQ
« Reply #25 on: July 12, 2007, 02:48:17 PM »
I'm in on it. I was in the U.S. Navy.
Yes, quite.  No one would ever claim to be someone they're not in their profile name.

Re: Who's in on the conspiracy? Info for the FAQ
« Reply #26 on: July 12, 2007, 03:12:32 PM »
Gee, you really seem to have a low opinion of those who serve in the military.

Not really. Would it make more sense to send an experienced and intelligent soldier to the Ice Wall, or an impressionable and inexperienced one? Less straw men please.

First, not everyone in such an action would be high-school dropouts. The technicians, pilots, navigators, commanders, and mechanics would all have reasoning skills inherent with their abilities. It does not take much to notice that the weather is frigid and that the stars are different than at home and that Polaris is missing from the night sky.

Did I say the weather wasn't frigid in Antarctica? I don't think they would be looking and making sure all the stars are where they should be. And what are these technicians, navigators and mechanics doing there? People are just guarding the Ice Wall. The only pilots necessary are the ones who fly them out there.

Second, there is a definite lack of mothers lamenting that their offspring is suffering, or suffered, in frigid climes. There is a definite lack of veterans sitting around the bar bragging about how cold it was during their tour. There is a definite lack of contractors reporting profits selling cold-weather gear and equipment to the Government.

That's assuming they were told the truth. As for the veterans, who is to say they were ever able to leave?

Gear for cold weather isn't only subject to the Antarctic.

As I've already stated, it's certainly unlikely, but it's certainly not implausible.
You mean "fewer straw man". It makes sense to send experienced and intelligent soliders. You seem to not understand about what you're talking. Military action requires logistics, and logistics require ships, aircrafts, pilots, navigators, technicians, and mechanics. The pilots would need to fly supply runs and reconnaissance, for example. The weather would be too hostile and the navigation too odd for even average pilots.

I'm only assuming that they feel the truth, like feeling how cold it is and for how long it's cold. I say that they were able to leave based on logic. Explaining so many missing servicemen over so many years would be impossible.

"Gear for cold weather isn't only subject to the Antarctic." This sentence is just too stupid and too irrelevant to justify a reply beyond this.

You have no rational basis for your conclusion that such a conspiracy is plausible. (I assume that you don't mind my applying the law of the excluded middle and then correcting your grammar.)

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The Communist

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Re: Who's in on the conspiracy? Info for the FAQ
« Reply #27 on: July 12, 2007, 03:30:18 PM »
Divito how is the military's intelligence a straw man fallacy?
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divito the truthist

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Re: Who's in on the conspiracy? Info for the FAQ
« Reply #28 on: July 12, 2007, 03:44:03 PM »
You mean "fewer straw man".

Technically, you're correct, but it's still applicable. Certainly not traditional but it sounds better in speech to me.

"generally, less applies to quantity while fewer applies to number; the traditional rule says that you should use fewer for things that can be counted (fewer than four players) but less with mass terms for things of measurable extent (less paper, less than a gallon of paint)"


It makes sense to send experienced and intelligent soliders. You seem to not understand about what you're talking. Military action requires logistics, and logistics require ships, aircrafts, pilots, navigators, technicians, and mechanics. The pilots would need to fly supply runs and reconnaissance, for example. The weather would be too hostile and the navigation too odd for even average pilots.

Like I said, the only people in on the conspiracy would be the pilots. There is no reason to think they are anything less than experts.

Yes, they require logistics. Did I say otherwise?

"In military logistics, experts manage how and when to move resources to the places they are needed."

Easily managed within a supposed conspiracy. The actual troops stationed on the ground and monitoring their equipment are not involved in the logistics.

I'm only assuming that they feel the truth, like feeling how cold it is and for how long it's cold.

That's right, you didn't answer where I said it wasn't frigid in the Antarctic.

I say that they were able to leave based on logic. Explaining so many missing servicemen over so many years would be impossible.

Explaining people dying in the line of duty is definitely impossible.

"Gear for cold weather isn't only subject to the Antarctic." This sentence is just too stupid and too irrelevant to justify a reply beyond this.

It wasn't irrelevant. You claimed "There is a definite lack of contractors reporting profits selling cold-weather gear and equipment to the Government."

For one, I'd like to know why you think they'd be reporting such profits.

Next, as my statement implied, gear for cold weather isn't only subject to the Antarctic. This would mean that said contractors would have no idea what the stuff was being purchased for. You sure do assume a lot.

You have no rational basis for your conclusion that such a conspiracy is plausible.

My rational basis is based on lack of evidence that it's implausible.
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divito the truthist

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Re: Who's in on the conspiracy? Info for the FAQ
« Reply #29 on: July 12, 2007, 03:46:07 PM »
Divito how is the military's intelligence a straw man fallacy?

He claimed I had a low opinion of those that serve in the military. That is the straw man.
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