Who's in on the conspiracy? Info for the FAQ

Is the irony in claiming that any exploration beyond the wall is impossible due to imagined darkness, and then linking to an aerial image of the icewall obviously taken by a helicopter during the day, intentional, or what?

The spotlight of the sun ends about 1,600 miles inland of the Ice Wall. We cannot see the gloom and darkness of the pitch black freezing tundra in the picture I've provided because the observer is not far enough inland.

Some sections of the Antarctic coast are tall and sheer. Others are not.

The Ice Wall is a natural formation. We an see parts of it in your image. It's a thick mass of floating ice that is attached to land, formed from and fed by tongues of glaciers extending outward from deep within the uncharted tundra into sheltered waters. Where there are no strong currents, the ice becomes partly grounded on the sea bottom and attaches itself to rocks and islands. The wall is pushed forward into the sea by glacial pressure until its forward growth is terminated.

The entire coast of the Ice Wall is not one single complete wall, however. There are actually a series of thousand mile long walls, divided by Transantarctic Mountain Ranges up to 11,500 feet high. The weight of The Ice Walls are so enormous that they have literally pressed the land two thirds of a mile (one kilometer) into the earth. Under the massive forces of their own weight, the ice walls deform and drag themselves outward. Very large glaciers called ice streams flow through them continually, transporting ice from deep inland out to the sea.

well all i have to say is that soon theres going to be alot of rich people in on this "conspiracy"  because virgin galactic is launching suborbital flights for the paying public in the near future for the small price of $200,000 a person. virgingalactic.com. i'm sorry if this has been mentioned already, but i also find it boring to read these posts that drone on and on. i just want to get this debate done and over with. git-r-done.

I don't see how ascending into the air and observing an apparently rounded horizon would prove a Round Earth. Remember, the horizon of a Flat Earth would also appear rounded; elliptical. When we move outside of the atmosphere of the Flat Earth, to the foot of space, we are looking down at a circle.

well all i have to say is that soon theres going to be alot of rich people in on this "conspiracy"  because virgin galactic is launching suborbital flights for the paying public in the near future for the small price of $200,000 a person.

$200,000 for 2 1/2 hrs!  Jesus, what a ripoff!

Is there any reason to believe your bubble hypothesis for the atmosphere?

Look at any High School physics book to see that heat and pressure have a correlation to each other.

Is there any reason to believe that those who claim to have been to the South pole were lying, and that further explorations there are the result of a massive conspiracy?

The South Pole in FE is a circular area beyond the Ice Wall where the magnetic field lines are vertical. Polar explorers occasionally travel to this area, plant a flag somewhere along the tundra, and leave back towards the sun. Remember, on a Round Earth the only way to travel South from the South Pole is to go North.

Is there any reason to believe that the sizes and shapes of bodies in the Southern hemisphere necessary to contain such a theory are accurate?

Yes. We have Southern Hemisphere source, Thomas Winship of South Africa, who confirms that the lines of latitude in the Southern Hemisphere are longer than the equator. He publishes his findings in a book called Zetetic Cosmogony. It is available online at Google Books.

Another book written by a Bible literalist out to prove the truthfulness of the Bible with his fake evidence (his motive is made clear within the first few pages).

Let's assume that he's being entirely honest about the lengths of latitude lines.  How did he measure them?  The fact is, we have modern methods that would be much, much more accurate than anything available at the time.  You fail in making your point, Tom. 

Exploration in this type of pitch black freezing environment is impossible for any man or machine. (...) Dr. Samuel Birley Rowbotham held that knowing the true dimensions of the Earth is something which will be forever be unknowable by man.

Well, maybe one day in distant future...

Quote

Is the irony in claiming that any exploration beyond the wall is impossible due to imagined darkness, and then linking to an aerial image of the icewall obviously taken by a helicopter during the day, intentional, or what?

The spotlight of the sun ends about 1,600 miles inland of the Ice Wall. We cannot see the gloom and darkness of the pitch black freezing tundra in the picture I've provided because the observer is not far enough inland.

Quote

Some sections of the Antarctic coast are tall and sheer. Others are not.

The Ice Wall is a natural formation. We an see parts of it in your image. It's a thick mass of floating ice that is attached to land, formed from and fed by tongues of glaciers extending outward from deep within the uncharted tundra into sheltered waters. Where there are no strong currents, the ice becomes partly grounded on the sea bottom and attaches itself to rocks and islands. The wall is pushed forward into the sea by glacial pressure until its forward growth is terminated.

The entire coast of the Ice Wall is not one single complete wall, however. There are actually a series of thousand mile long walls, divided by Transantarctic Mountain Ranges up to 11,500 feet high. The weight of The Ice Walls are so enormous that they have literally pressed the land two thirds of a mile (one kilometer) into the earth. Under the massive forces of their own weight, the ice walls deform and drag themselves outward. Very large glaciers called ice streams flow through them continually, transporting ice from deep inland out to the sea.

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well all i have to say is that soon theres going to be alot of rich people in on this "conspiracy"  because virgin galactic is launching suborbital flights for the paying public in the near future for the small price of $200,000 a person. virgingalactic.com. i'm sorry if this has been mentioned already, but i also find it boring to read these posts that drone on and on. i just want to get this debate done and over with. git-r-done.

I don't see how ascending into the air and observing an apparently rounded horizon would prove a Round Earth. Remember, the horizon of a Flat Earth would also appear rounded; elliptical. When we move outside of the atmosphere of the Flat Earth, to the foot of space, we are looking down at a circle.

Tom, I have asked this question over and over.  How is the Sun the ONLY natural spotlight?  In the RE model, the Sun is a massive fusion reaction.  We have created fusion-fission explosives, so we know this can work.  All natural light sources (and if you want to be truthful all light sources)  emit light in all directions over the luminous surface.  It is not logical to say "Well, the Sun has to be a spotlight because that's the only way it would work."  because we need proof of some kind that spotlights can even occur in nature.

Tom ruined our discussion. I'm very disappointed.

Tom ruined our discussion. I'm very disappointed.

Me too. Much as I am pleased about the great TB finally contributing to my thread, it has been dragged off topic. Who's in on the conspiracy, Tom?

Look at any High School physics book to see that heat and pressure have a correlation to each other.

Look at any High School physics book, gumshoe, and it'll tell you that areas of high pressure will try to move to areas of low pressure, in the absence of gravitational effects. What you've described would cause an instantaneous explosive decompression of the Earth's atmosphere!

Therefore, authors of High School physics books are in on the conspiracy!

Quote from: nathan on July 18, 2007, 04:46:30 PM

well all i have to say is that soon theres going to be alot of rich people in on this "conspiracy"  because virgin galactic is launching suborbital flights for the paying public in the near future for the small price of $200,000 a person.

$200,000 for 2 1/2 hrs!  Jesus, what a ripoff!

But you get to play in other people's puke while you are up there!  Doesn't that sound fun?

I thought you couldn't actually go up there, per FE, at least...

I thought you couldn't actually go up there, per FE, at least...

Nowhere does it say that you cannot leave the Earth's atmosphere in FE.  You just cannot orbit the FE, which is why man-made satellites can't exist.

Oh, ok. Thanks.

Tom, theres some serious issues with your "quasi-infinite plane of ice" idea. First off, per that, the water cycle is officially worthless as there is now an unlimited amount of water locked up in this ice.

More importantly, your idea regarding how the atmosphere stays in is flawed. Since air is a fluid, it will naturally shape itself to fill any container. Its a fundamental nature of fluids. if the earth were accelerating upwards, what would happen is that the air would be pushed down and flattened (you can simulate this with any visible fluid and an accelerating flat surface--a small amount of water, for example, held in a drop by its surface tension, will flatten and spread across the surface of a an object). Since air has no surface tension, this would be observed very quickly. Thus, since the wall is only 150 meters high, per you, all air above 150 meters would BECOME UNBREATHEABLE because it would be so thin and rapidly moving. Now, Mr. Bishop, I'm writing this post from 150 meters above sea level, and i've climbed mountains in excess of 1500 meters (Mount Washington, White Mountains, NH--1886 meters), and i'm breathing just fine. There are no winds flattening the landscape as the fluid air rushes to fill the empty space around it, forced to do so by acceleration and barometric differences.

So.... how does that work?

I don't see how ascending into the air and observing an apparently rounded horizon would prove a Round Earth. Remember, the horizon of a Flat Earth would also appear rounded; elliptical. When we move outside of the atmosphere of the Flat Earth, to the foot of space, we are looking down at a circle.

well, i guess there really is no way to convince FEer's of a round earth. a flat earth that appears round in space? beats me. if this was true than why wouldnt they just go ahead with space programs?

well, i guess there really is no way to convince FEer's of a round earth. a flat earth that appears round in space? beats me. if this was true than why wouldnt they just go ahead with space programs?

Because sustained space flight is not possible.

I don't see how ascending into the air and observing an apparently rounded horizon would prove a Round Earth. Remember, the horizon of a Flat Earth would also appear rounded; elliptical. When we move outside of the atmosphere of the Flat Earth, to the foot of space, we are looking down at a circle.

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well, i guess there really is no way to convince FEer's of a round earth. a flat earth that appears round in space? beats me. if this was true than why wouldnt they just go ahead with space programs?

The space programs present too much evidence for FEer to ignore. The images show that Australia is not elongated as their model predicts. The curvature of the Earth seen in the photographs doesn't align with their model. The position of the Moon and the Sun, the Sun's illumination, and the orbits of the spacecrafts and satellites all demonstrate that the Earth is round.

Really, "the Earth is round in the photographs because the Earth is cylinder" fails miserably with just a casual inspection. Continents, over the curvature of the Earth, the horizon, aren't visible, for example. The terminator often doesn't match FE predictions. It's just all lots of little explanations, picture by picture, failing to explain the next bit of evidence until it's in hand. 

Quote from: nathan on July 19, 2007, 08:33:51 PM

I don't see how ascending into the air and observing an apparently rounded horizon would prove a Round Earth. Remember, the horizon of a Flat Earth would also appear rounded; elliptical. When we move outside of the atmosphere of the Flat Earth, to the foot of space, we are looking down at a circle.

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well, i guess there really is no way to convince FEer's of a round earth. a flat earth that appears round in space? beats me. if this was true than why wouldnt they just go ahead with space programs?

The space programs present too much evidence for FEer to ignore. The images show that Australia is not elongated as their model predicts. The curvature of the Earth seen in the photographs doesn't align with their model. The position of the Moon and the Sun, the Sun's illumination, and the orbits of the spacecrafts and satellites all demonstrate that the Earth is round.

Really, "the Earth is round in the photographs because the Earth is cylinder" fails miserably with just a casual inspection. Continents, over the curvature of the Earth, the horizon, aren't visible, for example. The terminator often doesn't match FE predictions. It's just all lots of little explanations, picture by picture, failing to explain the next bit of evidence until it's in hand. 

Conspiracy

if sustained space flight isn't possible than what is it i get when i pay $200 g's for a space flight?

if sustained space flight isn't possible than what is it i get when i pay $200 g's for a space flight?

A $200,000.00 effects show.

i dont think that $200000(or any amount of money) is enough to make an "effects show" that can simulate weightlessness continously for 6 minutes without going into space.

i dont think that $200000(or any amount of money) is enough to make an "effects show" that can simulate weightlessness continously for 6 minutes without going into space.

An airplane on a parabolic flight can provide its occupants with weightless (or the "weight" of the Moon or the Mars). Ron Howard's Apollo 13 used NASA's "Vomit Comet" to film some sequences.

That said, I fully support your point that special effects by the conspiracy is an outlandish suggestion.

if sustained space flight isn't possible than what is it i get when i pay $200 g's for a space flight?

You don't get into orbit.  You get to spend a few terrifying minutes falling to earth from 100 km up.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Edge_of_space. frankly,i  dont think you need to be in orbit to see the curvature of the earth.

if sustained space flight isn't possible than what is it i get when i pay $200 g's for a space flight?

That was your question.  You don't get into orbit.

yes what you quoted was my question, but "you dont get into orbit" doesnt answer it, i must be missing something. i asked for what you do get, not what you dont. you can still go into space and not be in orbit, its called suborbital spaceflight.

You get to spend a few terrifying minutes falling to earth from 100 km up.

Perhaps you also missed the 'sustained' part.

umm...no, i think that 6 minutes in suborbital flight is long enough to be considered sustained spaceflight. not to mention that it wouldn't take 6 minutes to fall 100km to earth going at whatever the terminal velocity of the spacecraft is.

umm...no, i think that 6 minutes in suborbital flight is long enough to be considered sustained spaceflight.

Umm...no, I don't think that falling back to earth is sustaining flight.

They stay up at a certain altitude for six minutes. They aren't falling...

They stay up at a certain altitude for six minutes. They aren't falling...

No, it's a parabolic flight path.  The weightlessness comes from falling back to earth after reaching the highest point of the flight.

Quote from: Ferdinand Magellen on July 22, 2007, 03:44:31 PM

They stay up at a certain altitude for six minutes. They aren't falling...

No, it's a parabolic flight path.  The weightlessness comes from falling back to earth after reaching the highest point of the flight.

That's imprecise. They're falling back to Earth throughout the flight (Earth's gravity never disappears entirely for them.). Weightlessness, or rather microgravity, starts once the engines stop. The microgravity comes from being in free-fall.