Gravitons... a discussion.

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Re: Gravitons... a discussion.
« Reply #120 on: September 21, 2007, 12:26:00 PM »
Well I haven't see Gulliver say he doubts it but I stand by what I have said.

Re: Gravitons... a discussion.
« Reply #121 on: September 21, 2007, 12:26:33 PM »

Graviton: *accelerates to an infinite speed, and half way to full speed, arives at something*

Gravitons move at the speed of light. Nothing moves with infinite speed.
We don't know the speed of a graviton yet.  Current experiments to find out measure the speed of gravitation waves, but have not yet been fruitful.  One only assumes they travel at light speed due to them being massless.

It's not an assumption at all. It's a direct consequence of general relativty which also produces the equivalence principle that you just lectured me about!
I'd say assuming the speed of a theoretical particle is a big assumption, let alone its speed.

 I wouldnt really say I lectured you about the ep, i just said it was brought up regularly here.

But again, it's NOT an assumption. It's a consequence of GR. You can calculate the speed of gravity from the theory (GR) that's based on the equivalence principle being true.
We don't know it exists and its not falsifiable, and you are telling me you aren't assuming anything by giving it a speed and unifying it with a theory that directly clashes with it?


Whaaat?
The existence of the graviton is falsifiable.

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Re: Gravitons... a discussion.
« Reply #122 on: September 21, 2007, 12:27:16 PM »
He said, "if any exists" and then expanded on that a post or two later.
The illusion is shattered if we ask what goes on behind the scenes.

Re: Gravitons... a discussion.
« Reply #123 on: September 21, 2007, 12:29:09 PM »
I took that as a stipulation for the sake of arguing with you, but he will tell us I assume.

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Re: Gravitons... a discussion.
« Reply #124 on: September 21, 2007, 12:30:10 PM »

Graviton: *accelerates to an infinite speed, and half way to full speed, arives at something*

Gravitons move at the speed of light. Nothing moves with infinite speed.
We don't know the speed of a graviton yet.  Current experiments to find out measure the speed of gravitation waves, but have not yet been fruitful.  One only assumes they travel at light speed due to them being massless.

It's not an assumption at all. It's a direct consequence of general relativty which also produces the equivalence principle that you just lectured me about!
I'd say assuming the speed of a theoretical particle is a big assumption, let alone its speed.

 I wouldnt really say I lectured you about the ep, i just said it was brought up regularly here.

But again, it's NOT an assumption. It's a consequence of GR. You can calculate the speed of gravity from the theory (GR) that's based on the equivalence principle being true.
We don't know it exists and its not falsifiable, and you are telling me you aren't assuming anything by giving it a speed and unifying it with a theory that directly clashes with it?


Whaaat?
The existence of the graviton is falsifiable.
orly?
The illusion is shattered if we ask what goes on behind the scenes.

Re: Gravitons... a discussion.
« Reply #125 on: September 21, 2007, 12:34:49 PM »
And the thing about that is, physicists don't doubt that there is something akin to a graviton in existence. To us this is obvious at this point. Neither GR or quantum mechanics is the full story, we know that. But they're both aprts of the same story. And that's what we need to reconcile. Not whather or not gravity has a mediator particle.
Well, apparently Gulliver is a physicist, and he doubts it.
I am not a physicist. My Ph.D. is in OR. I taught undergraduate physics, graduate law, graduate business, graduate math, graduation computer science. My publications are in OR, Comp Sci., OM, AI, and physics. I've worked as a contractor for the DOD, FBI, GAO, and NASA. I'm currently disabled fighting terminal cancer.

My doubts are simply and straightforward. We've not detected the graviton. We must admit that there is a slim possibility that gravity is not mediated by a particle even when our current understanding of GR and QP leads us straight to that conclusion. Science holds doubt above all in the pursuit of knowledge.

Re: Gravitons... a discussion.
« Reply #126 on: September 21, 2007, 12:39:16 PM »
Agreed.

Re: Gravitons... a discussion.
« Reply #127 on: September 21, 2007, 12:47:23 PM »
...
The existence of the graviton is falsifiable.
orly?
Yes, though until there's great advancements in engineering, we'll have to rely on the same techniques used to detect virtual photons. If we can't detect gravitons at the theoretically predicted amounts at the studied energies and conditions, then the existence of gravitons would be ruled out.
« Last Edit: September 21, 2007, 03:58:36 PM by Gulliver »

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Bushido

Re: Gravitons... a discussion.
« Reply #128 on: September 21, 2007, 03:46:28 PM »
There is no way a child like you is getting my real name.

roflmao. Like, you publish
 ::)

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narcberry

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Re: Gravitons... a discussion.
« Reply #129 on: September 22, 2007, 11:41:29 AM »
Wow. You guys can argue each other for me. In the meantime...

Another Victory for FE!!!

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Roundy the Truthinessist

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Re: Gravitons... a discussion.
« Reply #130 on: September 22, 2007, 11:44:12 AM »
Ew, I have to agree with Gulliver. Gross.

I know, I always feel dirty and ashamed when that happens.
Where did you educate the biology, in toulet?

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narcberry

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Re: Gravitons... a discussion.
« Reply #131 on: August 10, 2008, 11:23:34 PM »
Any last words from RE'ers before we tally this a victory for FE?!