Weather forecasting.

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TheEngineer

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Re: Weather forecasting.
« Reply #90 on: July 16, 2007, 10:51:20 PM »
They can have many. But they cant do what satellites do.    Whether balloons aren’t even pseudolite.  One high orbiting satellite could do the work of over a couple thousand pseudolites. 
Anything that performs the function of a satellite is a pseudolite.


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sharkzf6

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Re: Weather forecasting.
« Reply #91 on: July 16, 2007, 10:52:26 PM »
The engineer is trying to claim that satellites can only provide local data.  That is not even close to true.
So a satellite can cover the entire world at once?
Ok
Local=Denver.  Maybe even Colorado
Not local=United States. 
Any questions? 
BTW the United states has more than one satellite. 

Based on my conversations with RE theorists, it would not be difficult to put a satellite into a high enough orbit to easily cover the United States. Are you saying this is not true?

No, I'm saying the engineer can't comprehend that idea. 
I see...
What about it Engineer? Can you comprehend the idea of having a "satellite" at a high enough altitude to see the entire United States at once?
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TheEngineer

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Re: Weather forecasting.
« Reply #92 on: July 16, 2007, 10:54:13 PM »
Can I comprehend that?  Yes. 

What was your point?  You seem to have forgotten to post it.


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sokarul

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Re: Weather forecasting.
« Reply #93 on: July 16, 2007, 10:54:23 PM »
They can have many. But they cant do what satellites do.    Whether balloons aren’t even pseudolite.  One high orbiting satellite could do the work of over a couple thousand pseudolites. 
Anything that performs the function of a satellite is a pseudolite.
So weather balloons can stay up for years on end and collect data where ever is needed?  
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Gulliver

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Re: Weather forecasting.
« Reply #94 on: July 16, 2007, 10:57:30 PM »
They can have many. But they cant do what satellites do.    Whether balloons aren’t even pseudolite.  One high orbiting satellite could do the work of over a couple thousand pseudolites. 
Anything that performs the function of a satellite is a pseudolite.
Wow! What a great definition! Let's see Sputnik's function: to beep. My computer beeps. Hence, my computer is a pseudolite. Who knew?

Let's see the Iridium's function: to complete phone calls. My central office, a brick and mortar building weighing many tons, completes phone calls. My central office is a pseudolite. Who knew?

It's amazing what you can do when you believe in magic!

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sharkzf6

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Re: Weather forecasting.
« Reply #95 on: July 16, 2007, 10:58:26 PM »
Can I comprehend that?  Yes. 

What was your point?  You seem to have forgotten to post it.
No point. I was attempting to gain some clarification. sokarul claimed you could not comprehend this idea. I was simply going straight to the source...you.
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divito the truthist

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Re: Weather forecasting.
« Reply #96 on: July 16, 2007, 11:02:28 PM »
So weather balloons can stay up for years on end and collect data where ever is needed?   

No.

"Worldwide there are more than 800 radiosonde launch sites. Most countries share data with the rest of the world through international agreements. Nearly all routine radiosonde launches occur at 0000 UTC and 1200 UTC to provide an instantaneous snapshot of the atmosphere. This is especially important for numerical modeling. In the United States the National Weather Service is tasked with providing timely upper-air observations for use in weather forecasting, severe weather watches and warnings, and atmospheric research. It launches radiosondes from 92 stations in North America and the Pacific Islands twice daily. It also supports the operation of 10 radiosonde sites in the Caribbean."

Radiosondes, rocketsondes, dropsondes and aircraft can replicate satellite data.

sokarul claimed you could not comprehend this idea.

He claims lots of crazy things, like magic dirt and such.
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sokarul

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Re: Weather forecasting.
« Reply #97 on: July 16, 2007, 11:09:34 PM »

No.

"Worldwide there are more than 800 radiosonde launch sites. Most countries share data with the rest of the world through international agreements. Nearly all routine radiosonde launches occur at 0000 UTC and 1200 UTC to provide an instantaneous snapshot of the atmosphere. This is especially important for numerical modeling. In the United States the National Weather Service is tasked with providing timely upper-air observations for use in weather forecasting, severe weather watches and warnings, and atmospheric research. It launches radiosondes from 92 stations in North America and the Pacific Islands twice daily. It also supports the operation of 10 radiosonde sites in the Caribbean."

Radiosondes, rocketsondes, dropsondes and aircraft can replicate satellite data.
I’m sure the news hired a balloon to take a picture of the snow last winter when we had massive snow fall.  I’m sure satellite radio launches balloons every half hour.  I'm sure the each balloon has millions of dollars in equipment on it.   I’m sure that the coast guard uses balloons to search of distress beacons out in the water.   

Quote
He claims lots of crazy things, like magic dirt and such.
You are right, someone claims magical dirt, but you know what?  It’s not me. 
« Last Edit: July 16, 2007, 11:15:29 PM by sokarul »
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Gulliver

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Re: Weather forecasting.
« Reply #98 on: July 16, 2007, 11:14:26 PM »
So weather balloons can stay up for years on end and collect data where ever is needed?   

No.

"Worldwide there are more than 800 radiosonde launch sites. Most countries share data with the rest of the world through international agreements. Nearly all routine radiosonde launches occur at 0000 UTC and 1200 UTC to provide an instantaneous snapshot of the atmosphere. This is especially important for numerical modeling. In the United States the National Weather Service is tasked with providing timely upper-air observations for use in weather forecasting, severe weather watches and warnings, and atmospheric research. It launches radiosondes from 92 stations in North America and the Pacific Islands twice daily. It also supports the operation of 10 radiosonde sites in the Caribbean."

Radiosondes, rocketsondes, dropsondes and aircraft can replicate satellite data.

sokarul claimed you could not comprehend this idea.

He claims lots of crazy things, like magic dirt and such.
First, I doubt even you, with the thickest tinfoil hat, would believe that even a well-funded conspiracy could produce the incredible amount of weather forecasting related data that satellites provide. For example, when Andrew hit Homestead, I watch near real-time satellite imagery and real-time ground reporting as Andrew came ashore. None of the suggestions that you have made could have produced that imagery that we saw.

Second, sokural is correct about magic dirt. FE by claiming that the sense of gravity on Earth is caused by a uniform acceleration of the Earth upward must claim that the Earth's dirt has a very magical quality: While it always attracts other matter when consider unit by unit, it fails to attract other matter when we consider it as a whole. So twice as much dirt has twice the attraction, and three times the dirt has three times the attraction, and so on. But when FE talks about the whole FE suddenly the dirt stops attracting. Magic!

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sharkzf6

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Re: Weather forecasting.
« Reply #99 on: July 16, 2007, 11:19:12 PM »
<snip>
Second, sokural is correct about magic dirt. FE by claiming that the sense of gravity on Earth is caused by a uniform acceleration of the Earth upward must claim that the Earth's dirt has a very magical quality: While it always attracts other matter when consider unit by unit, it fails to attract other matter when we consider it as a whole. So twice as much dirt has twice the attraction, and three times the dirt has three times the attraction, and so on. But when FE talks about the whole FE suddenly the dirt stops attracting. Magic!
No offense but I have no idea what the hell you are saying here. Can you run this “magic dirt” thing by me one more time… ???
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sokarul

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Re: Weather forecasting.
« Reply #100 on: July 16, 2007, 11:22:44 PM »
<snip>
Second, sokural is correct about magic dirt. FE by claiming that the sense of gravity on Earth is caused by a uniform acceleration of the Earth upward must claim that the Earth's dirt has a very magical quality: While it always attracts other matter when consider unit by unit, it fails to attract other matter when we consider it as a whole. So twice as much dirt has twice the attraction, and three times the dirt has three times the attraction, and so on. But when FE talks about the whole FE suddenly the dirt stops attracting. Magic!
No offense but I have no idea what the hell you are saying here. Can you run this “magic dirt” thing by me one more time… ???
Divito is trying to be funny but he is to emo to be funny.  He should stick to poems. 

The flat earth theory says mass does not bend spacetime.  This is to say they think they are smarter then Einstein.  So I labels their idea that earth doesn't bend spacetime as the ground is made of magical dirt.
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Gulliver

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Re: Weather forecasting.
« Reply #101 on: July 16, 2007, 11:37:12 PM »
<snip>
Second, sokural is correct about magic dirt. FE by claiming that the sense of gravity on Earth is caused by a uniform acceleration of the Earth upward must claim that the Earth's dirt has a very magical quality: While it always attracts other matter when consider unit by unit, it fails to attract other matter when we consider it as a whole. So twice as much dirt has twice the attraction, and three times the dirt has three times the attraction, and so on. But when FE talks about the whole FE suddenly the dirt stops attracting. Magic!
No offense but I have no idea what the hell you are saying here. Can you run this “magic dirt” thing by me one more time… ???
Sure thing. It's complex, and I took several shortcuts in explaining it. Sorry.

First, FE has a problem with gravity. The force you feel that keeps you on Earth is caused by two very different mechanism in the two models. RE, as you probably know, relies on gravitation. The mass of the Earth attracts other masses, such as you and the Moon. Newton's model, with improvements last century by Einstein, predicts this force quite accurately. Now FE can't have the same force. You see the disc shape would cause significant variations. Basically everyone would be pulled toward the North Pole. In the early days of the Forum there was a debate on how best to confound the REers in dealing with this problem. The decision, perhaps unwise, was to have the FE accelerating upwards at a constant 1g, and to have no regular gravity (for the attraction of the Earth's mass). You may recall the weak Equivalence Principle of Einstein's General Relativity. Basically, you can't tell the difference between the felt force in FE versus RE--until you look at the secondary effects.

So FE holds that gravity you feel on Earth is caused by acceleration, and, by necessity, the mass of the Earth does not exert a gravitational attraction, or in Einstein's terms does not bend space-time. Now this would be okay, except for the secondary effects (tidal forces, variations in the force by altitude, by local formations, and by latitude) and the Cavendish experiment.

The Cavendish experiment uses sensitive torsion bars to detect the gravitational attraction between masses. So if you pick up a pound of dirt and place it in one side of the experimental device and place you in the other side. The dirt will attract you. If you add a second pound of dirt you'll be twice as attracted. And so on. And we've never tested any mass that didn't have the predicted gravitational attraction. Now FE argues that these myriad of tests do not predict how the whole Earth will behave. They insist, rather inanely, that when all these masses are taken as a whole instead of adding according to Einstein's model, they no longer attract, denying the laws of logic and physics. Hence the term: "magical dirt"!

I hope that helps. Please follow up with any question or concerns. I'm happy to help!

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Roundy the Truthinessist

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Re: Weather forecasting.
« Reply #102 on: July 16, 2007, 11:40:11 PM »
It's a misunderstanding about FE theory on Gulliver's and Sokarul's part (indeed, a misunderstanding of science itself).  They think that because something is as-yet-unexplained in the theory magic must be invoked.  In the Middle Ages they would have written magnetism off as magic.  They don't seem to grasp that by their definition gravity itself must be magic, since we don't really understand the mechanism that causes matter to bend space-time.

But hey, what do you expect from someone who thinks you can see black holes and dark matter, and someone who can't even spell the word "quit"?

The sad fact is that the first person to actually bring up the concept of magical dirt was, in fact, Sokarul.
Where did you educate the biology, in toulet?

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RENTAKOW

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Re: Weather forecasting.
« Reply #103 on: July 16, 2007, 11:45:26 PM »
How was this picture taken?

http://aviationweather.gov/data/obs/sat/intl/ir_ICAO-B1_bw.jpg

ETA: It's a mosaic, yes, but how many pseudollites would it take to make that picture? Just imagine each one of those grid squares as the useful FOV of a single camera, at ~300,000. 204 Units
« Last Edit: July 16, 2007, 11:51:42 PM by rentacow »

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divito the truthist

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Re: Weather forecasting.
« Reply #104 on: July 16, 2007, 11:46:28 PM »
First, I doubt even you, with the thickest tinfoil hat, would believe that even a well-funded conspiracy could produce the incredible amount of weather forecasting related data that satellites provide.

I'll paste this again:

"Components of a modern weather forecasting system include:

    * Data collection
    * Data assimilation
    * Numerical weather prediction
    * Model output post-processing
    * Forecast presentation to end-user

[edit] Data collection

Observations of atmospheric pressure, temperature, wind speed, wind direction, humidity, precipitation are made near the earth's surface by trained observers, automatic weather stations or buoys. The World Meteorological Organization acts to standardize the instrumentation, observing practices and timing of these observations worldwide. Stations either report hourly in METAR reports, or every six hours in SYNOP reports.

Measurements of temperature, humidity and wind above the surface are found by launching radiosondes (weather balloon). Data are usually obtained from near the surface to the middle of the stratosphere, about 30,000 m (100,000 ft). In recent years, data transmitted from commercial airplanes through the AMDAR system has also been incorporated into upper air observation, primarily in numerical models.

Increasingly, data from weather satellites are being used due to their (almost) global coverage. Although their visible light images are very useful for forecasters to see development of clouds, little of this information can be used by numerical weather prediction models. The infra-red (IR) data however can be used as it gives information on the temperature at the surface and cloud tops. Individual clouds can also be tracked from one time to the next to provide information on wind direction and strength at the clouds steering level. Polar orbiting satellites provide soundings of temperature and moisture throughout the depth of the atmosphere. Compared with similar data from radiosondes, the satellite data has the advantage that coverage is global, however the accuracy and resolution is not as good.
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divito the truthist

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Re: Weather forecasting.
« Reply #105 on: July 16, 2007, 11:50:29 PM »
Our existentialist, relativist, nihilist, determinist, fascist, eugenicist moderator hath returned.
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TheEngineer

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Re: Weather forecasting.
« Reply #106 on: July 16, 2007, 11:54:55 PM »
Wow! What a great definition! Let's see Sputnik's function: to beep. My computer beeps. Hence, my computer is a pseudolite. Who knew?

Let's see the Iridium's function: to complete phone calls. My central office, a brick and mortar building weighing many tons, completes phone calls. My central office is a pseudolite. Who knew?

It's amazing what you can do when you believe in magic!
Wow!  It's amazing what crap you can spew when you have no idea what you are talking about!

Quote from: Wiki on Pseudolites
Pseudolite is a contraction of the term "pseudo-satellite," used to refer to something that is not a satellite which performs a function commonly in the domain of satellites.


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TheEngineer

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Re: Weather forecasting.
« Reply #107 on: July 16, 2007, 11:58:09 PM »
Now this would be okay, except for the secondary effects (tidal forces, variations in the force by altitude, by local formations, and by latitude) and the Cavendish experiment.
You said the 'f' word.  You fail. 


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RENTAKOW

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Re: Weather forecasting.
« Reply #108 on: July 17, 2007, 12:11:16 AM »
What? Force? Forces exist. If I you were hit by a cement truck on the freeway, would you be feeling a force? I think yes.

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TheEngineer

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Re: Weather forecasting.
« Reply #109 on: July 17, 2007, 12:13:06 AM »
Gravity has a force doesn't exist.


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RENTAKOW

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Re: Weather forecasting.
« Reply #110 on: July 17, 2007, 12:30:29 AM »
Then why don't I float away if I jump?

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TheEngineer

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Re: Weather forecasting.
« Reply #111 on: July 17, 2007, 12:32:55 AM »
Because of your tendency to follow geodesics in spacetime, or, the earth catches up with you, depending on your belief system.


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RENTAKOW

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Re: Weather forecasting.
« Reply #112 on: July 17, 2007, 12:41:13 AM »
So something is 'forsing' me to come bak to earth? Assuming the RE model.

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TheEngineer

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Re: Weather forecasting.
« Reply #113 on: July 17, 2007, 12:43:13 AM »
So something is 'forsing' me to come bak to earth? Assuming the RE model.
You are following a geodesic, but there is no force acting on you.


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RENTAKOW

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Re: Weather forecasting.
« Reply #114 on: July 17, 2007, 12:59:13 AM »
What is the definition of 'forse' exaktly?

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TheEngineer

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Re: Weather forecasting.
« Reply #115 on: July 17, 2007, 01:05:18 AM »
Quote
An apparent exception would seem to be the force of gravity, which is also proportional to the mass upon which it acts. Although gravity can be considered a "real" physical force for the purposes of calculations in classical mechanics, Albert Einstein showed in his theory of general relativity that gravity itself can also be considered a fictitious force. In his theory, the free-falling reference frame is equivalent to an inertial reference frame (the equivalence principle). By contrast, Einstein noted that observers standing on the Earth are experiencing an unrecognized acceleration from the normal force pushing up on their feet and, thus, are in a non-inertial (accelerated) reference frame. Further details may be found under general relativity.


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RENTAKOW

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Re: Weather forecasting.
« Reply #116 on: July 17, 2007, 01:23:32 AM »
Are you suggesting that I'm not being held to the earth?

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TheEngineer

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Re: Weather forecasting.
« Reply #117 on: July 17, 2007, 01:27:02 AM »
You are constantly trying to fall through it.


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RENTAKOW

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Re: Weather forecasting.
« Reply #118 on: July 17, 2007, 01:28:13 AM »
Bekause gravity is forsing me to go down.

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TheEngineer

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Re: Weather forecasting.
« Reply #119 on: July 17, 2007, 01:31:05 AM »
No, you are just trying to follow a geodesic through the earth.  The earth just happens to not be very forgiving, and thus provides the force you feel through whatever part of your body is in contact with the earth.


"I haven't been wrong since 1961, when I thought I made a mistake."
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