Inflation and the Federal Reserve

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Erasmus

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Inflation and the Federal Reserve
« on: June 10, 2007, 02:52:24 AM »
So, this is the stuff I want to talk about nowadays.

Everybody has heard of inflation.  It means that things seem to be getting more expensive over time, uniformly throughout the economy.  In other words, money is worth less than it used to be.  Last time I checked, the general cost of stuff in the U.S. is 3% more in any given year than it was the previous year, or, money was worth 3% more last year than this year.

I know that inflation happens in Canada and that it's also about 3% every year.

Now comes the part that I'm pretty sure about but am ready to be corrected or argued against.

In the U.S., inflation happens because the Federal Reserve ("the Fed") puts money into circulation.  There are two ways of doing this: first, they can buy government securities ("T-bills").  Second, they can print money.

In the U.S., the government likes inflation because it is the means by which the government operates; i.e., pays its bills.  The U.S. treasury doesn't actually have enough money to pay its bills; instead, it creates money out of thin air, thereby inflating the economy.  Inflation isn't enough to cover all of government spending and therefore the U.S. experiences a deficit every year.

Allegedly, due to inflation, the U.S. dollar is worth 1/25th its value in 1913, the date of the creation of the Fed.  (This drop in value corresponds to inflation of 3.48% per year, on average).  Prior to that, fluctuations in the value of the dollar were caused by fluctuations in the supply of gold.

Aside from permitting deficit spending, the other function of the Fed is to set the target interest rates on loans.  To do so, the Fed can inflate the economy (causing interest rates to drop), or tinker with a variety of the parameters in the Federal Reserve system.  Fluctuations in interest rates have a serious effect on the economy: when rates drop, it becomes easier for people to get loans, which makes it easier to spend money, which is good for business.  When rates go up, yadda yadda, businesses get hurt.  Wall Street is like a well-trained dog at the heel of the Fed, jumping at a kind word and recoiling from a harsh one.

The Fed is accountable to no one and transcripts from meetings of its Board of Governors are confidential for five years.  They do not discuss their reasoning when they change the rates.  In a very real sense, our economy is not free; it is controlled by the Fed.  The current chairman of the Board at the Fed recently apologized for causing the Great Depression -- ironic, because the goal of the Federal Reserve system is to make sure that growth can always happen unimpeded and to prevent recessions and crashes.

Last but not least, the Fed is not a part of our government.  Its Board is appointed by the president, but they do not answer to him, and the banks which make up the Federal Reserve system are all privately owned.

Now I have some questions:

Why do we need the Federal Reserve?  It has not shown itself to be a useful service; the market is its own best regulator, and the minting of money is, according to the Constitution, the sole purview of the federal government.  The Fed does more harm than good.

Why do we have inflation?  Inflation is a mechanism by which the government steals from the people.  When the Fed prints money, all the money in circulation goes down in value by a certain amount.  That value is now held by the Fed.

Why do countries that do not engage in deficit spending (like Canada) have inflation?

And here's a seemingly-unrelated question: Why is there an income tax in the United States?
Why did the chicken cross the Möbius strip?

Re: Inflation and the Federal Reserve
« Reply #1 on: June 10, 2007, 06:04:24 AM »
I agree with you on most points. Let me see what I can come up with for your questions.

Why do we need the Federal Reserve?  It has not shown itself to be a useful service; the market is its own best regulator, and the minting of money is, according to the Constitution, the sole purview of the federal government.  The Fed does more harm than good.
You're right in that we definitely don't need the Fed. However, I think it does a decent job as a stabilizing element for the money supply. Instead of the value being affected by fluctuations in the precious metals market, it is in a decline, but at a steady rate.

Why do we have inflation?  Inflation is a mechanism by which the government steals from the people.  When the Fed prints money, all the money in circulation goes down in value by a certain amount.  That value is now held by the Fed.
Keep in mind that there are factors other than the money supply which can affect inflation. (Supply and demand)

Why do countries that do not engage in deficit spending (like Canada) have inflation?
Same as above.

And here's a seemingly-unrelated question: Why is there an income tax in the United States?
Because it's provided for by a Constitutional amendment.
« Last Edit: June 10, 2007, 06:06:11 AM by Agent_0042 »
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Can the FAQ...
Yes, it can.

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Bushido

Re: Inflation and the Federal Reserve
« Reply #2 on: June 10, 2007, 07:17:44 AM »
Along with prices, the Gross Domestic Product (GDP) per person also rises, so, in spite of things becoming more expensive in nominal money, people have more money to spend. In fact, the GDP deflator (look it up) is another way of measuring inflation.
« Last Edit: June 10, 2007, 07:19:41 AM by Bushido »

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cadmium_blimp

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Re: Inflation and the Federal Reserve
« Reply #3 on: June 10, 2007, 11:00:30 AM »
Nice to see you around, Erasmus!
And here's a seemingly-unrelated question: Why is there an income tax in the United States?
I don't really have any answer to that, aside from the fact that it is just another way to get the citizen's money, just like property taxes (if the government can tax it, it isn't really your property, is it?), and you'll probably note that it is supported by the only constitutional amendment that hasn't been repealed that also restricts people.

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Erasmus

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Re: Inflation and the Federal Reserve
« Reply #4 on: June 10, 2007, 11:34:42 AM »
Thanks for the detailed reply...

You're right in that we definitely don't need the Fed. However, I think it does a decent job as a stabilizing element for the money supply. Instead of the value being affected by fluctuations in the precious metals market, it is in a decline, but at a steady rate.

See, to me, that's bad.

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Keep in mind that there are factors other than the money supply which can affect inflation. (Supply and demand)

Interesting.  I have heard this suggestion before.  If that's the case, why does inflation happen uniformly?  I think that's basically the definition.  The only explanation would be that the supply/demand of everything decreased/increased (respectively) at exactly the same rate.  That seems pretty unlikely.

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And here's a seemingly-unrelated question: Why is there an income tax in the United States?
Because it's provided for by a Constitutional amendment.

I don't have any objections to the sixteenth amendment; I don't doubt that the tax is legal (if immoral).  I'm more trying to figure out what it's for.  I've heard that it goes purely to pay the interest on the national debt.
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Erasmus

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Re: Inflation and the Federal Reserve
« Reply #5 on: June 10, 2007, 11:39:19 AM »
Along with prices, the Gross Domestic Product (GDP) per person also rises, so, in spite of things becoming more expensive in nominal money, people have more money to spend. In fact, the GDP deflator (look it up) is another way of measuring inflation.

I'll have to look into this.  The only thing I would caution is that the GDP includes government spending, so, just because it goes up, doesn't mean people (real people, as opposed to government people) have more money.  In any case, I kinda feel like having more money to spend is a red herring if the buying power of that money is less.
Why did the chicken cross the Möbius strip?

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Bushido

Re: Inflation and the Federal Reserve
« Reply #6 on: June 11, 2007, 01:40:49 AM »
It is obvious that you are lame when it comes to economy. Since I'm no expert myself, I will refrain from discussing with you any further. For a wonderful introduction to Economics, see:

Mankiw G.N., Principles of Economics

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Nomad

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Re: Inflation and the Federal Reserve
« Reply #7 on: June 11, 2007, 01:50:28 AM »
I think to answer the question about why countries without federal reserve still experience inflation, is probably largely due to rise in population, and probably also a lot to do with minimum wage.  More people, more people to pay, more people to pay means more money is needed.  More money is printed, but then it's worth less.  Unfortunate.

I just kind of pulled that out of my ass, but it seems logical enough to me.
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Bushido

Re: Inflation and the Federal Reserve
« Reply #8 on: June 11, 2007, 02:50:44 AM »
I just kind of pulled that out of my ass, but it seems logical enough to me.

Put it back in.

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Midnight

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Re: Inflation and the Federal Reserve
« Reply #9 on: June 11, 2007, 03:49:24 AM »
So, this is the stuff I want to talk about nowadays.

Everybody has heard of inflation.  It means that things seem to be getting more expensive over time, uniformly throughout the economy.  In other words, money is worth less than it used to be.  Last time I checked, the general cost of stuff in the U.S. is 3% more in any given year than it was the previous year, or, money was worth 3% more last year than this year.

I know that inflation happens in Canada and that it's also about 3% every year.

Now comes the part that I'm pretty sure about but am ready to be corrected or argued against.

In the U.S., inflation happens because the Federal Reserve ("the Fed") puts money into circulation.  There are two ways of doing this: first, they can buy government securities ("T-bills").  Second, they can print money.

In the U.S., the government likes inflation because it is the means by which the government operates; i.e., pays its bills.  The U.S. treasury doesn't actually have enough money to pay its bills; instead, it creates money out of thin air, thereby inflating the economy.  Inflation isn't enough to cover all of government spending and therefore the U.S. experiences a deficit every year.

Allegedly, due to inflation, the U.S. dollar is worth 1/25th its value in 1913, the date of the creation of the Fed.  (This drop in value corresponds to inflation of 3.48% per year, on average).  Prior to that, fluctuations in the value of the dollar were caused by fluctuations in the supply of gold.

Aside from permitting deficit spending, the other function of the Fed is to set the target interest rates on loans.  To do so, the Fed can inflate the economy (causing interest rates to drop), or tinker with a variety of the parameters in the Federal Reserve system.  Fluctuations in interest rates have a serious effect on the economy: when rates drop, it becomes easier for people to get loans, which makes it easier to spend money, which is good for business.  When rates go up, yadda yadda, businesses get hurt.  Wall Street is like a well-trained dog at the heel of the Fed, jumping at a kind word and recoiling from a harsh one.

The Fed is accountable to no one and transcripts from meetings of its Board of Governors are confidential for five years.  They do not discuss their reasoning when they change the rates.  In a very real sense, our economy is not free; it is controlled by the Fed.  The current chairman of the Board at the Fed recently apologized for causing the Great Depression -- ironic, because the goal of the Federal Reserve system is to make sure that growth can always happen unimpeded and to prevent recessions and crashes.

Last but not least, the Fed is not a part of our government.  Its Board is appointed by the president, but they do not answer to him, and the banks which make up the Federal Reserve system are all privately owned.

Now I have some questions:

Why do we need the Federal Reserve?  It has not shown itself to be a useful service; the market is its own best regulator, and the minting of money is, according to the Constitution, the sole purview of the federal government.  The Fed does more harm than good.

Why do we have inflation?  Inflation is a mechanism by which the government steals from the people.  When the Fed prints money, all the money in circulation goes down in value by a certain amount.  That value is now held by the Fed.

Why do countries that do not engage in deficit spending (like Canada) have inflation?

And here's a seemingly-unrelated question: Why is there an income tax in the United States?

What you said about inflation rings true, and insidiously, is by design. There was a man, I forget his name, but I WILL post links to this data, that basically was being sued by the IRS, and was facing like eons in prison over this shit. He found, and I mean literally, a law, on the books, that literally, NEGATES the income tax. Not just a law, but in the actual Constitution itself. Yet the IRS and private interest lobbies, pull every god damn dirty-handed scheme in the land to avoid that coming to the forefront of public consciousness.

Why? Because there would be chaos in the streets. If the common man realized he has been kept there by this invisible counterweight to his aspirations, he would go bat-signal crazy. Thus, the media REFUSES to cover the story of that man (I swear to god if I have to stay up 48 hours, I will find those links I had!)

Whatever can be argued for or against the current United States System of Government, this one is by far the most insidious, and morally, socially, wrong.

I think the biggest worry it causes some people, those that look into it fully, is that it is completely out in the open, but not really. This kind of crap has been done to every nation, by it's leadership, since the dawn of time. Yet, in the current world we live in, of instant access data, I find it utterly contemptable that most random people you encounter have NO IDEA that what the FED is doing is not only fucked up, it is, for all intents an purposes, a crime against the states. Period. The Constitution has many points in it's text that is often debated. This particular subject, leaves no room for debate. Read the actual document, then look up laws on taxation, and read them line by line. You will, I promise you, get mad. Real mad.

Benjamin Franklin said:

"When a government is not morally or legally answerable to their people, the people are required neither to follow that government's laws, nor pay its bills" - Rough paraphrase, but the meaning is clear and present.
« Last Edit: June 11, 2007, 03:55:27 AM by Midnight »
My problem with his ideas is that it is a ridiculous thing.

Genius. PURE, undiluted genius.

Re: Inflation and the Federal Reserve
« Reply #10 on: June 11, 2007, 09:45:20 PM »
Inflation, however, has been going on for centuries. Same with taxes. The income tax was first devised in the early 19th century in Britain because before then governments had little way to actually raise money. Indeed, it was tariffs, duties and land taxes that were the most efficient way.
Income tax is simply the best way for a government to get money. Take away income tax and you'd have taken away more than half the income of the government.

Australia did not have an income tax until 1942 and it was put in for this very reason. There simply was not enough money to function.

I'm no economist, but how I see inflation is that it used to happen only in times of stress. In the Civil War, for instance, one dollar lost value from 1 to 3.25. In those days, it was mainly due to the fact that specie was short because of the war, and the loss of income from the South.

Now though, in a time of peace where money is not confined by gold, I don't know, and never have understood, why the federal government cannot stop inflation occuring. They lock currency exchange rates after all at some times.

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sokarul

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Re: Inflation and the Federal Reserve
« Reply #11 on: June 11, 2007, 10:00:17 PM »
My grandpa was the senior vice president of the Federal Reserve in Chicago.  But he’s not around anymore so I cant ask him what he did day to day.  But like I told Tom, there’s no conspiracy or anything paranoid like that, about the fed.  They just do their job.
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Dioptimus Drime

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Re: Inflation and the Federal Reserve
« Reply #12 on: June 11, 2007, 10:05:46 PM »
Along with prices, the Gross Domestic Product (GDP) per person also rises, so, in spite of things becoming more expensive in nominal money, people have more money to spend. In fact, the GDP deflator (look it up) is another way of measuring inflation.

I'll have to look into this.  The only thing I would caution is that the GDP includes government spending, so, just because it goes up, doesn't mean people (real people, as opposed to government people) have more money.  In any case, I kinda feel like having more money to spend is a red herring if the buying power of that money is less.

Actually, I'm pretty sure he's right in that the GDP goes up so technically, everyone's buying and selling at pretty much the same price...it's just different numbers. Basically, it all goes back to the economy...eventually. We aren't all getting poorer, but the money is getting less valuble. However, since things do not cleanly and gradually rise a penny per day or something simple like that, and since not all cashflow is released as such from the mints, it ends up hobbling along somewhat like a broken wheel. Obviously, not perfect as there will be fluctuations, but they do manage to control it so that the supply and demand of a completely free market end up making the wheel come completely unhinged and send the cart sliding down the hill unassisted.

You seem to hold more libertarian views about the market, though, and that's acceptable, and I almost agree with some of it. The Fed, for example, are probably not the best system that could be in place right now. But meh. It's the best we've got for now, and until we get a libertarian president (Ron Paul! Ron Paul!)--which are few and far between, as left-wingers hate it and right-winged politicians have all but abandoned it save a few (Ron Paul! Ron Paul!)--I'm fairly positive that everything will stay exactly how it is.

But then I'm completely cynical. So sue me.

~D-Draw

Re: Inflation and the Federal Reserve
« Reply #13 on: June 11, 2007, 10:10:05 PM »
A libertarian president would be as destructive as one from the 'Know-Nothing' party! :P

Well, since I'm in a different country, I know that the federal bank tries to keep inflation at less than 3% a year. I still don't understand why it is needed though!

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Dioptimus Drime

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Re: Inflation and the Federal Reserve
« Reply #14 on: June 11, 2007, 10:12:43 PM »
Ron Paul's views are actually rather reasonable, and I come from the left side, most usually. But anyways, that's totally beside the point...

~D-Draw

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Erasmus

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Re: Inflation and the Federal Reserve
« Reply #15 on: June 12, 2007, 12:00:37 PM »
What you said about inflation rings true, and insidiously, is by design. There was a man, I forget his name, but I WILL post links to this data, that basically was being sued by the IRS, and was facing like eons in prison over this shit. He found, and I mean literally, a law, on the books, that literally, NEGATES the income tax. Not just a law, but in the actual Constitution itself.

Maybe you're thinking of this guy?

I have looked into this a bit.  It seems that there's a growing movement of Americans who believe that (a) there is no law requiring them to file a tax return, or (b) there is no law requiring them to pay income taxes, or (c) the income tax is unconstitutional.

I don't have an answer to (a).  However, I have found and read the law that requires individual wage-earners to pay a portion of their wages to the federal government.  You can read this law, the Internal Revenue Code (at the very beginning of title 26) at this website.  "Taxable income" is well-defined in terms of gross income.  As for (c), the Sixteenth Amendment (ratified 1913) allows for a direct, unapportioned tax on income.  This violates prior amendments which require that all direct taxes be apportioned, but same goes for the amendment that repeals the prohibition on the sale of alcohol.  The arguments that the Sixteenth amendment was not properly ratified are without merit.

Basically, the income tax is totally legal.  That said...

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Whatever can be argued for or against the current United States System of Government, this one is by far the most insidious, and morally, socially, wrong.

... I totally agree with that sentiment.

I hesitate to recommend this, but what the hell: there's a very skewed documentary on this stuff by Aaron Russo, called America: Freedom to Fascism.  It's made up primarily of quotations that have been blatantly mangled, distorted, elided, edited, or otherwise taken out of context; and secondarily, of interviews with interviews with laymen and people with political agendas.  Still, I think there's an ounce of truth in it, and if you take it at face value, it's more than a pound of scary.

I definitely believe that America is seriously diverging from its freedom-centric roots, and that sadly, other countries (e.g. Canada) were never interested in the concept in the first place.
Why did the chicken cross the Möbius strip?

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Erasmus

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Re: Inflation and the Federal Reserve
« Reply #16 on: June 12, 2007, 12:15:24 PM »
Actually, I'm pretty sure he's right in that the GDP goes up so technically, everyone's buying and selling at pretty much the same price...it's just different numbers.

Obviously that's true in some sense.  If it were really 25 times harder to buy bread now than it was in 1913, I don't think we'd have survived this long.  What irks me is that inflation is a source of revenue for the government at the long-term expense of citizens.

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... it ends up hobbling along somewhat like a broken wheel. Obviously, not perfect as there will be fluctuations, but they do manage to control it so that the supply and demand of a completely free market end up making the wheel come completely unhinged and send the cart sliding down the hill unassisted.

Indeed.  I feel like having a committee trying to manage America's economy like that is like a person in a raft trying to keep the ocean's surface perfectly level.

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You seem to hold more libertarian views about the market, though, and that's acceptable,

Why, thank you :)

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and I almost agree with some of it. The Fed, for example, are probably not the best system that could be in place right now. But meh. It's the best we've got for now, and until we get a libertarian president (Ron Paul! Ron Paul!)--which are few and far between, as left-wingers hate it and right-winged politicians have all but abandoned it save a few (Ron Paul! Ron Paul!)--I'm fairly positive that everything will stay exactly how it is.

Huh.  I have heard of this fellow but not read about him before now.  Having done some cursory research, I find I mostly agree with his stances.  I nearly flipped when I saw the Marque and Reprisal Act.  Omg I would totally sign up for a letter of marque.  Yeah, I think I could vote for this guy.  Unfortunately he doesn't sound like the sort to drum up much support for any of his initiatives.
Why did the chicken cross the Möbius strip?

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Dioptimus Drime

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Re: Inflation and the Federal Reserve
« Reply #17 on: June 12, 2007, 01:44:01 PM »
Indeed, he'll probably end up running independent, since, like I say, most libertarian views don't exist on either side anymore, for whatever reasons...

~D-Draw

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divito the truthist

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Re: Inflation and the Federal Reserve
« Reply #18 on: September 17, 2007, 02:21:12 PM »
I hesitate to recommend this, but what the hell: there's a very skewed documentary on this stuff by Aaron Russo, called America: Freedom to Fascism.  It's made up primarily of quotations that have been blatantly mangled, distorted, elided, edited, or otherwise taken out of context; and secondarily, of interviews with interviews with laymen and people with political agendas.

Care to point out the "mangled, distorted, elided, edited or otherwise taken out of context" quotations?
Our existentialist, relativist, nihilist, determinist, fascist, eugenicist moderator hath returned.
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Nomad

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Re: Inflation and the Federal Reserve
« Reply #19 on: September 17, 2007, 02:29:28 PM »
Is this Thread Resurrection Day?
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Midnight

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Re: Inflation and the Federal Reserve
« Reply #20 on: September 17, 2007, 02:42:35 PM »
Why yes, it is!
My problem with his ideas is that it is a ridiculous thing.

Genius. PURE, undiluted genius.

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Raist

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Re: Inflation and the Federal Reserve
« Reply #21 on: September 17, 2007, 02:55:00 PM »

And here's a seemingly-unrelated question: Why is there an income tax in the United States?

Because it is an inherent power. A government in order to run needs to collect taxes.

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Midnight

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Re: Inflation and the Federal Reserve
« Reply #22 on: September 17, 2007, 02:56:13 PM »
Because it is an inherent power. A government in order to run needs to steal from the peasantry.

Fixed.
My problem with his ideas is that it is a ridiculous thing.

Genius. PURE, undiluted genius.

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Raist

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Re: Inflation and the Federal Reserve
« Reply #23 on: September 17, 2007, 02:58:15 PM »
Lol no it's not stealing. Stealing is violating a law, laws are defined by the government. Without a government there is no laws. Therefore they cannot be constrained to any laws they are not willing to enforce upon themselves.

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Midnight

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Re: Inflation and the Federal Reserve
« Reply #24 on: September 17, 2007, 02:59:14 PM »
Lol no it's not stealing. Stealing is violating a law, laws are defined by the government. Without a government there is no laws. Therefore they cannot be constrained to any laws they are not willing to enforce upon themselves.

Please show me the law where it says legally that the United States government will allow for an income tax. The court that was asked could not, and did not, and the man was exonerated and his debt erased.
My problem with his ideas is that it is a ridiculous thing.

Genius. PURE, undiluted genius.

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narcberry

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Re: Inflation and the Federal Reserve
« Reply #25 on: September 17, 2007, 03:00:17 PM »
Lol no it's not stealing. Stealing is violating a law, laws are defined by the government. Without a government there is no laws. Therefore they cannot be constrained to any laws they are not willing to enforce upon themselves.

Laws are based on a moral code that has definitions such as stealing independantly defined. Yes, a government says what is stealing as per the law, however it is not the sole basis of the moral code.

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Bushido

Re: Inflation and the Federal Reserve
« Reply #26 on: December 02, 2007, 02:51:43 PM »
Lol no it's not stealing. Stealing is violating a law, laws are defined by the government. Without a government there is no laws. Therefore they cannot be constrained to any laws they are not willing to enforce upon themselves.

Please show me the law where it says legally that the United States government will allow for an income tax. The court that was asked could not, and did not, and the man was exonerated and his debt erased.


Excerpt from Constitution of the United States:

Article I
Section. 7.

All Bills for raising Revenue shall originate in the House of Representatives; but the Senate may propose or concur with Amendments as on other Bills.

Every Bill which shall have passed the House of Representatives and the Senate, shall, before it become a Law, be presented to the President of the United States: If he approve he shall sign it, but if not he shall return it, with his Objections to that House in which it shall have originated, who shall enter the Objections at large on their Journal, and proceed to reconsider it. If after such Reconsideration two thirds of that House shall agree to pass the Bill, it shall be sent, together with the Objections, to the other House, by which it shall likewise be reconsidered, and if approved by two thirds of that House, it shall become a Law. But in all such Cases the Votes of both Houses shall be determined by yeas and Nays, and the Names of the Persons voting for and against the Bill shall be entered on the Journal of each House respectively. If any Bill shall not be returned by the President within ten Days (Sundays excepted) after it shall have been presented to him, the Same shall be a Law, in like Manner as if he had signed it, unless the Congress by their Adjournment prevent its Return, in which Case it shall not be a Law.

Every Order, Resolution, or Vote to which the Concurrence of the Senate and House of Representatives may be necessary (except on a question of Adjournment) shall be presented to the President of the United States; and before the Same shall take Effect, shall be approved by him, or being disapproved by him, shall be repassed by two thirds of the Senate and House of Representatives, according to the Rules and Limitations prescribed in the Case of a Bill.

Section. 8.

The Congress shall have Power To lay and collect Taxes, Duties, Imposts and Excises, to pay the Debts and provide for the common Defence and general Welfare of the United States; but all Duties, Imposts and Excises shall be uniform throughout the United States;

To borrow Money on the credit of the United States;

To regulate Commerce with foreign Nations, and among the several States, and with the Indian Tribes;

To establish an uniform Rule of Naturalization, and uniform Laws on the subject of Bankruptcies throughout the United States;

To coin Money, regulate the Value thereof, and of foreign Coin, and fix the Standard of Weights and Measures;

To provide for the Punishment of counterfeiting the Securities and current Coin of the United States;

To establish Post Offices and post Roads;

To promote the Progress of Science and useful Arts, by securing for limited Times to Authors and Inventors the exclusive Right to their respective Writings and Discoveries;

To constitute Tribunals inferior to the supreme Court;

To define and punish Piracies and Felonies committed on the high Seas, and Offences against the Law of Nations;

To declare War, grant Letters of Marque and Reprisal, and make Rules concerning Captures on Land and Water;

To raise and support Armies, but no Appropriation of Money to that Use shall be for a longer Term than two Years;

To provide and maintain a Navy;

To make Rules for the Government and Regulation of the land and naval Forces;

To provide for calling forth the Militia to execute the Laws of the Union, suppress Insurrections and repel Invasions;

To provide for organizing, arming, and disciplining, the Militia, and for governing such Part of them as may be employed in the Service of the United States, reserving to the States respectively, the Appointment of the Officers, and the Authority of training the Militia according to the discipline prescribed by Congress;

To exercise exclusive Legislation in all Cases whatsoever, over such District (not exceeding ten Miles square) as may, by Cession of particular States, and the Acceptance of Congress, become the Seat of the Government of the United States, and to exercise like Authority over all Places purchased by the Consent of the Legislature of the State in which the Same shall be, for the Erection of Forts, Magazines, Arsenals, dock-Yards, and other needful Buildings;--And

To make all Laws which shall be necessary and proper for carrying into Execution the foregoing Powers, and all other Powers vested by this Constitution in the Government of the United States, or in any Department or Officer thereof.

EDIT: added article number
« Last Edit: December 02, 2007, 02:56:19 PM by Bushido »

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Midnight

  • 7671
  • RE/FE Apathetic.
Re: Inflation and the Federal Reserve
« Reply #27 on: December 02, 2007, 06:53:38 PM »
Still waiting.

It will NOT be you who makes mids stumble, kid. Try again.  :-*
My problem with his ideas is that it is a ridiculous thing.

Genius. PURE, undiluted genius.

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theonlydann

  • Official Member
  • 24172
Re: Inflation and the Federal Reserve
« Reply #28 on: December 03, 2007, 05:02:22 AM »
Lol no it's not stealing. Stealing is violating a law, laws are defined by the government. Without a government there is no laws. Therefore they cannot be constrained to any laws they are not willing to enforce upon themselves.

Please show me the law where it says legally that the United States government will allow for an income tax. The court that was asked could not, and did not, and the man was exonerated and his debt erased.

urban legend.

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Loard Z

  • 4680
  • Insert witty intellectual phrase here...
Re: Inflation and the Federal Reserve
« Reply #29 on: December 03, 2007, 05:04:21 AM »
i wish they'd erase my debt.
if i remember, austria is an old, dis-used name for what is now Germany.
See My Greatness