Inflation and the Federal Reserve

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Midnight

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Re: Inflation and the Federal Reserve
« Reply #30 on: December 03, 2007, 12:41:33 PM »
Lol no it's not stealing. Stealing is violating a law, laws are defined by the government. Without a government there is no laws. Therefore they cannot be constrained to any laws they are not willing to enforce upon themselves.

Please show me the law where it says legally that the United States government will allow for an income tax. The court that was asked could not, and did not, and the man was exonerated and his debt erased.

urban legend.

orly?
My problem with his ideas is that it is a ridiculous thing.

Genius. PURE, undiluted genius.

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theonlydann

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Re: Inflation and the Federal Reserve
« Reply #31 on: December 03, 2007, 02:43:08 PM »
Lol no it's not stealing. Stealing is violating a law, laws are defined by the government. Without a government there is no laws. Therefore they cannot be constrained to any laws they are not willing to enforce upon themselves.

Please show me the law where it says legally that the United States government will allow for an income tax. The court that was asked could not, and did not, and the man was exonerated and his debt erased.

urban legend.


orly?
ya rly!
« Last Edit: June 30, 2012, 06:33:38 AM by theonlydann »

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Bushido

Re: Inflation and the Federal Reserve
« Reply #32 on: December 03, 2007, 04:49:50 PM »
Still waiting.

It will NOT be you who makes mids stumble, kid. Try again.  :-*

Of course it won't. You did it yourself. Say hello to your spouse for me.  :-* back

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Raist

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Re: Inflation and the Federal Reserve
« Reply #33 on: December 03, 2007, 06:49:12 PM »
Still waiting.

It will NOT be you who makes mids stumble, kid. Try again.  :-*

Of course it won't. You did it yourself. Say hello to your spouse for me.  :-* back
ixnay on the omanway.

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Midnight

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Re: Inflation and the Federal Reserve
« Reply #34 on: December 10, 2007, 07:20:14 PM »
Still waiting.

It will NOT be you who makes mids stumble, kid. Try again.  :-*

Of course it won't. You did it yourself. Say hello to your spouse for me.  :-* back

How is not being proven wrong doing anything against myself? :-*

Nothing in your post shows me the law I asked to see. So please do own me before I age.
My problem with his ideas is that it is a ridiculous thing.

Genius. PURE, undiluted genius.

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Bushido

Re: Inflation and the Federal Reserve
« Reply #35 on: December 11, 2007, 01:32:01 PM »
Still waiting.

It will NOT be you who makes mids stumble, kid. Try again.  :-*

Of course it won't. You did it yourself. Say hello to your spouse for me.  :-* back

How is not being proven wrong doing anything against myself? :-*

Nothing in your post shows me the law I asked to see. So please do own me before I age.

I don't plan to have this converstion until New Year. You are right in your own reality and that is what matters to you.  The Constitution is a legal basis for all the Laws in a Democracy. It specifically mentions that the Legislature has the right to produce revenue from Taxes of any form.

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Saddam Hussein

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Re: Inflation and the Federal Reserve
« Reply #36 on: June 30, 2012, 02:22:08 AM »
Is this Thread Resurrection Day?

Yes.

Also, Midnight is dumb.

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Benjamin Franklin

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Re: Inflation and the Federal Reserve
« Reply #37 on: June 30, 2012, 11:18:45 AM »
In the U.S., inflation happens because the Federal Reserve ("the Fed") puts money into circulation.  There are two ways of doing this: first, they can buy government securities ("T-bills").  Second, they can print money.
Go back to community college, you clearly failed Macroeconomics.

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Saddam Hussein

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Re: Inflation and the Federal Reserve
« Reply #38 on: June 30, 2012, 11:32:24 AM »
Yes, there were many dumb posts in this thread.

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Saddam Hussein

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Re: Inflation and the Federal Reserve
« Reply #39 on: June 30, 2012, 02:46:12 PM »
Lol no it's not stealing. Stealing is violating a law, laws are defined by the government. Without a government there is no laws. Therefore they cannot be constrained to any laws they are not willing to enforce upon themselves.

Please show me the law where it says legally that the United States government will allow for an income tax. The court that was asked could not, and did not, and the man was exonerated and his debt erased.

urban legend.

Dann is correct.

http://evans-legal.com/dan/tpfaq.html#victories

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Saddam Hussein

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Re: Inflation and the Federal Reserve
« Reply #40 on: July 15, 2012, 09:20:55 PM »
Why does nobody seem to care about this thread? :(

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Sean

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Re: Inflation and the Federal Reserve
« Reply #41 on: July 15, 2012, 09:34:18 PM »
Because it was created in 2007.
Quote from: sokarul
Better bring a better augment, something not so stupid.

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Saddam Hussein

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Re: Inflation and the Federal Reserve
« Reply #42 on: July 15, 2012, 10:30:17 PM »
Irrelevant.

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markjo

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Re: Inflation and the Federal Reserve
« Reply #43 on: July 16, 2012, 08:19:40 AM »
Lol no it's not stealing. Stealing is violating a law, laws are defined by the government. Without a government there is no laws. Therefore they cannot be constrained to any laws they are not willing to enforce upon themselves.

Please show me the law where it says legally that the United States government will allow for an income tax. The court that was asked could not, and did not, and the man was exonerated and his debt erased.

urban legend.

Dann is correct.

http://evans-legal.com/dan/tpfaq.html#victories
I found an interesting, if somewhat off topic, tidbit in your link:
http://evans-legal.com/dan/tpfaq.html#purpose
Quote
Imagine a group of professional scientists who have met to discuss important issues of physics and chemistry, and then someone comes into their meeting and challenges them to prove that the earth revolves around the sun. At first, they might be unable to believe that the challenger is serious. Eventually, they might be polite enough to explain the observations and calculations which lead inevitably to the conclusion that the earth does indeed revolve around the sun. Suppose the challenger is not convinced, but insists that there is actually no evidence that the earth revolves around the sun, and that all of the calculations of the scientists are deliberately misleading. At that point, they will be jaw-droppingly astounded, and will no longer be polite, but will evict the challenger/lunatic from their meeting because he is wasting their time.
Science is what happens when preconception meets verification.
Quote from: Robosteve
Besides, perhaps FET is a conspiracy too.
Quote from: bullhorn
It is just the way it is, you understanding it doesn't concern me.

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Benjamin Franklin

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Re: Inflation and the Federal Reserve
« Reply #44 on: July 16, 2012, 10:55:36 AM »
Why does nobody seem to care about this thread? :(
Because the OP said the Federal Reserve prints money.

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Saddam Hussein

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Re: Inflation and the Federal Reserve
« Reply #45 on: July 16, 2012, 11:11:38 AM »
Lol no it's not stealing. Stealing is violating a law, laws are defined by the government. Without a government there is no laws. Therefore they cannot be constrained to any laws they are not willing to enforce upon themselves.

Please show me the law where it says legally that the United States government will allow for an income tax. The court that was asked could not, and did not, and the man was exonerated and his debt erased.

urban legend.

Dann is correct.

http://evans-legal.com/dan/tpfaq.html#victories
I found an interesting, if somewhat off topic, tidbit in your link:
http://evans-legal.com/dan/tpfaq.html#purpose
Quote
Imagine a group of professional scientists who have met to discuss important issues of physics and chemistry, and then someone comes into their meeting and challenges them to prove that the earth revolves around the sun. At first, they might be unable to believe that the challenger is serious. Eventually, they might be polite enough to explain the observations and calculations which lead inevitably to the conclusion that the earth does indeed revolve around the sun. Suppose the challenger is not convinced, but insists that there is actually no evidence that the earth revolves around the sun, and that all of the calculations of the scientists are deliberately misleading. At that point, they will be jaw-droppingly astounded, and will no longer be polite, but will evict the challenger/lunatic from their meeting because he is wasting their time.

I was amused to read that.

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Johannes

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Re: Inflation and the Federal Reserve
« Reply #46 on: July 16, 2012, 09:55:43 PM »
NO ONE BUT PAUL 2012!

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Sean

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Re: Inflation and the Federal Reserve
« Reply #47 on: July 17, 2012, 08:21:12 AM »
Johannes is still terrible. Great.
Quote from: sokarul
Better bring a better augment, something not so stupid.

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ThinkingMan

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Re: Inflation and the Federal Reserve
« Reply #48 on: July 17, 2012, 11:43:25 AM »
Why does nobody seem to care about this thread? :(
Because the OP said the Federal Reserve prints money.

The Federal Reserve is the banking systems that holds the money that the Bureau of Engraving and Printing prints, who answers the the Federal Reserve, who apparently answers to no one, but intentionally causes inflation to take our money, and continues to have money printed, which in and of itself is against the constitution.  :P
When Tom farts, the special gasses released open a sort of worm hole into the past. There Tom is able to freely discuss with Rowbotham all of his ideas and thoughts.

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Benjamin Franklin

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Re: Inflation and the Federal Reserve
« Reply #49 on: July 17, 2012, 12:43:26 PM »
The Federal Reserve is the banking systems that holds the money that the Bureau of Engraving and Printing prints,
For the record, only the amount needed to meet the demand for portable currency is printed. "Printing money" is not the mechanism the Federal Reserve uses to control inflation.

who apparently answers to no one,
http://www.bostonfed.org/news/speeches/rosengren/2011/111611/index.htm
In recent years there have been those advocating that the Federal Reserve should be audited. They are right in that the Fed should be audited Ė but they are mistaken in believing that the Fed is not. In truth the Fed is a heavily audited organization subject to substantial oversight. This is entirely appropriate given the sensitivity of what central banks do, and the need to do it without reproach.

In truth,

    all twelve Federal Reserve Banks employ professional internal auditors;
    an outside audit firm, Deloitte & Touche, audits our financial statements;
    the Federal Reserveís Inspector General, created by Congress, audits our activities;
    the U.S. Government Accountability Office audits our actions, and
    Congress, which created the Federal Reserve System, provides significant oversight regarding Fed actions, as demonstrated by frequent requests to testify before committees Ė and by legislation over the years that has altered our role.[3]


This is not to even mention that there is no motivation for the Federal Reserve to act in any interest except economic security. Basic game theory states that since the Federal Reserve only has motivations to do the best for the economy, they will.

but intentionally causes inflation to take our money,
http://www.federalreserve.gov/pf/pdf/pf_complete.pdf
conducting the nationís monetary policy by influencing the monetary and credit conditions in the economy in pursuit of maximum employment, stable prices, and moderate long-term interest rates

supervising and regulating banking institutions to ensure the safety and soundness of the nationís banking and financial system and to protect the credit rights of consumers

maintaining the stability of the financial system and containing systemic risk that may arise in financial markets

providing financial services to depository institutions, the U.S. government, and foreign official institutions, including playing a major role in operating the nationís payments system


In short, they control inflation, and other factors, to help our economy. They don't do it just to "take our money."

and continues to have money printed,
Again, only to meet the portable demand of money.


which in and of itself is against the constitution.
Citation needed.


:P
Put that tongue back in your mouth and go take a Macroeconomics class.

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ThinkingMan

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Re: Inflation and the Federal Reserve
« Reply #50 on: July 17, 2012, 01:26:20 PM »
Here we go.

Quote from: US Constitution=topic=14380.msg1372909#msg1372909 date=1342538472
No State shall enter into any Treaty, Alliance, or Confederation; grant Letters of Marque and Reprisal; coin Money; emit Bills of Credit; make any Thing but gold and silver Coin a Tender in Payment of Debts; pass any Bill of Attainder, ex post facto Law, or Law impairing the Obligation of Contracts, or grant any Title of Nobility.

No State shall, without the Consent of the Congress, lay any Imposts or Duties on Imports or Exports, except what may be absolutely necessary for executing it's inspection Laws: and the net Produce of all Duties and Imposts, laid by any State on Imports or Exports, shall be for the Use of the Treasury of the United States; and all such Laws shall be subject to the Revision and Controul of the Congress.

No State shall, without the Consent of Congress, lay any duty of Tonnage, keep Troops, or Ships of War in time of Peace, enter into any Agreement or Compact with another State, or with a foreign Power, or engage in War, unless actually invaded, or in such imminent Danger as will not admit of delay.

That may be a citation enough. Gold and Silver is legal tender. The Legal Tender Act of 1862 changed that, but has been determined both constitutional, and unconstitutional, but different Judges in the Supreme Court, in 1870 and 1871.

This here may also be helpful: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Legal_tender_cases#Original_intent_and_original_meaning

Quote from: [url=http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Legal_tender_cases#Original_intent_and_original_meaning
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Legal_tender_cases#Original_intent_and_original_meaning[/url]=topic=14380.msg1372909#msg1372909 date=1342538472]
Regarding paper money, Nathaniel Gorham explained at the Constitutional Convention that he "was for striking out" an explicit power of Congress to issue paper money, but Gorham was also against "inserting any prohibition."[11] That is what ultimately happened at the Convention: language explicitly giving the federal government power to issue legal tender paper money was removed on a vote of 9-2, but an option allowing the issuance together with a prohibition against making it legal tender was not acted upon. Article I, Section 8 of the Constitution gives Congress power to "borrow money on the credit of the United States," and therefore Gorham envisioned that "The power [e.g. to emit promissory paper], as far as it will be necessary or safe, is involved in that of borrowing."[12] The power to emit paper money (e.g. bank notes) has been justified by invoking the Necessary and Proper Clause in combination with the other enumerated powers which include the power to borrow money.[13] The power to "issue bills of credit" (paper money) is explicitly mentioned in the Constitution as a prohibition on the States, and could therefore be interpreted as a power so momentous that it would have to be conferred explicitly on the federal government rather than inferred from the Necessary and Proper Clause, although it is not entirely clear whether or not the framers intended such an interpretation, nor did the Supreme Court adopt such an interpretation in the Legal Tender Cases or subsequently.

In other words, Congress plays games and thinks the Constitution is up for interpretation like the Bible, Koran, or Tao Te Ching.
When Tom farts, the special gasses released open a sort of worm hole into the past. There Tom is able to freely discuss with Rowbotham all of his ideas and thoughts.

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Benjamin Franklin

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Re: Inflation and the Federal Reserve
« Reply #51 on: July 17, 2012, 01:39:41 PM »
The Contract Clause, which is what you cited, applies to states and not the federal government. It was designed so states couldn't print their own money or relieve debts under their own authority. Not to mention that the right of the federal government to print money has been defended in the courts.

In other words, Congress plays games and thinks the Constitution is up for interpretation like the Bible, Koran, or Tao Te Ching.
Uh, the Constitution is subject to interpretation. That's what the judicial branch exists for.

So please, in the most concise and simplistic terms possible, show me the clause in the constitution that the Federal Reserve violates. This is also not to even mention that unless you can also give a practical argument as to why the Federal Reserve is bad and hurts the economy, it would make more sense to amend the Constitution than to remove the Federal Reserve.

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ThinkingMan

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Re: Inflation and the Federal Reserve
« Reply #52 on: July 17, 2012, 01:50:32 PM »
I didn't say they hurt the economy, I said they caused inflation. I may have been generalizing, as there are other government organizations that do influence the inflation. But the federal reserve does influence the inflation. The section I made bold/underline says basically that States cannot accept anything but gold or silver as legal tender. If the fed prints paper money, this is not acceptable to the States by what it says right there. Therefore, it is not legal US tender, as it is the States that make up the United States of America.
When Tom farts, the special gasses released open a sort of worm hole into the past. There Tom is able to freely discuss with Rowbotham all of his ideas and thoughts.

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Benjamin Franklin

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Re: Inflation and the Federal Reserve
« Reply #53 on: July 17, 2012, 02:17:23 PM »
See, this is a great example of interpretation of the constitution. That clause does not say the Federal Government can not "make any Thing but gold and silver Coin a Tender in Payment of Debts", but the states. You need to find a clause saying that the Federal, as opposed to state, government can not make paper money legal tender. It also does not say what the State Governments can accept as payment. It says the states cannot make anything but gold or silver legal tender, not that they can not accept anything buy gold and silver.

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ThinkingMan

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Re: Inflation and the Federal Reserve
« Reply #54 on: July 18, 2012, 06:30:01 AM »
You're correct, I was thinking about this last night. The feds found a loophole. That does not negate the fact that the states cannot, by the constitution, accept the money. It also says in the constitution that Congress has the power to "coin money". If I were to interpret that, I was say "OH SEE, IT SAYS COIN, NOT PAPER!" I'm however not that stupid. Coining money is simply making something to represent money and giving it a "value". However, my first statement rings true. The States cannot accept or make the paper money according to our constitution.

Another thing, The Constitution is not up for interpretation. It is a set of rules and guidelines made to help the people of the United States for generations to come keep and uphold their freedom. People do not write guidelines or rules and say "Well, hey, what ever you guys think, ya know?" The Constitution is quite clear in what it states. I don't see any statements there that look like they're meant for interpretation, or that are metaphorical in any way like religious texts are. It's a rule book, like the rules in monopoly. How would you feel, if you were playing monopoly, and someone was just like, "Oh, I'm taking this money out of the bank." "It doesn't say in the rules not to take the money out of the bank."
When Tom farts, the special gasses released open a sort of worm hole into the past. There Tom is able to freely discuss with Rowbotham all of his ideas and thoughts.

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Saddam Hussein

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Re: Inflation and the Federal Reserve
« Reply #55 on: July 18, 2012, 08:36:10 AM »
Another thing, The Constitution is not up for interpretation. It is a set of rules and guidelines made to help the people of the United States for generations to come keep and uphold their freedom. People do not write guidelines or rules and say "Well, hey, what ever you guys think, ya know?" The Constitution is quite clear in what it states. I don't see any statements there that look like they're meant for interpretation, or that are metaphorical in any way like religious texts are. It's a rule book, like the rules in monopoly. How would you feel, if you were playing monopoly, and someone was just like, "Oh, I'm taking this money out of the bank." "It doesn't say in the rules not to take the money out of the bank."

Maybe you should let the courts know about this.  They seem to think differently.
« Last Edit: July 18, 2012, 02:52:16 PM by Saddam Hussein »

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ThinkingMan

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Re: Inflation and the Federal Reserve
« Reply #56 on: July 18, 2012, 08:47:59 AM »
I'm aware that they seem to think differently. But rules should not be interpreted. They should be followed. If the constitution is up for interpretation, then so are all the laws written by the people that are following this "loose set of rules," right?
When Tom farts, the special gasses released open a sort of worm hole into the past. There Tom is able to freely discuss with Rowbotham all of his ideas and thoughts.

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Benjamin Franklin

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Re: Inflation and the Federal Reserve
« Reply #57 on: July 18, 2012, 08:49:02 AM »
Another thing, The Constitution is not up for interpretation. It is a set of rules and guidelines made to help the people of the United States for generations to come keep and uphold their freedom. People do not write guidelines or rules and say "Well, hey, what ever you guys think, ya know?" The Constitution is quite clear in what it states. I don't see any statements there that look like they're meant for interpretation, or that are metaphorical in any way like religious texts are. It's a rule book, like the rules in monopoly. How would you feel, if you were playing monopoly, and someone was just like, "Oh, I'm taking this money out of the bank." "It doesn't say in the rules not to take the money out of the bank."
I'm addressing this first, even though Saddam made it perfectly clear. The English language is not a programming language. There are places for ambiguity and interpretation. This was fully known by the founding fathers (like me!) and that is why the judicial branch exists. Obviously people have to defend their interpretations, because that's how a democracy works.

You're correct, I was thinking about this last night. The feds found a loophole. That does not negate the fact that the states cannot, by the constitution, accept the money. [...] The States cannot accept or make the paper money according to our constitution.
Where does it say that the states are not allowed to accept federally authorized and printed money?

It also says in the constitution that Congress has the power to "coin money". If I were to interpret that, I was say "OH SEE, IT SAYS COIN, NOT PAPER!" I'm however not that stupid. Coining money is simply making something to represent money and giving it a "value".
Uh, yeah? What's wrong with the Federal Government using the power that it constitutionally has?

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ThinkingMan

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Re: Inflation and the Federal Reserve
« Reply #58 on: July 18, 2012, 08:51:45 AM »
You're correct, I was thinking about this last night. The feds found a loophole. That does not negate the fact that the states cannot, by the constitution, accept the money. [...] The States cannot accept or make the paper money according to our constitution.
Where does it say that the states are not allowed to accept federally authorized and printed money?

make any Thing but gold and silver Coin a Tender in Payment of Debts

Right there.
When Tom farts, the special gasses released open a sort of worm hole into the past. There Tom is able to freely discuss with Rowbotham all of his ideas and thoughts.

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Saddam Hussein

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Re: Inflation and the Federal Reserve
« Reply #59 on: July 18, 2012, 09:02:55 AM »
They aren't making it.  It's federal money, not state money.