It's a new world record of speed and the winner is...

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It's a new world record of speed and the winner is...
« on: June 06, 2007, 03:26:55 PM »
The earth?!

Well if the earth's acceleration is 9.8m/sec^2 it sould travel much faster then the speed of light. Light is the fastest way to deliver energy(by photos) so the dark energy can't affect earth! Moreover, the earth should be in a status of energy and not matter!

I calculated that if the earth moved in 1m/sec when I was born(18 years ago) today it sould be much faster then the speed of light(C=300,000 km/sec).


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TheEngineer

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Re: It's a new world record of speed and the winner is...
« Reply #1 on: June 06, 2007, 03:44:13 PM »
Ah, but you forgot about Relativity.  So, no.

The earth can continually accelerate at a constant rate forever and never reach the speed of light.  This can be seen in the equations of Relativity.


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thesublime514

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Re: It's a new world record of speed and the winner is...
« Reply #2 on: June 06, 2007, 03:46:03 PM »
you can't reach the speed of light.  It's something about relativity, but you can't.

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Colonel Gaydafi

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Re: It's a new world record of speed and the winner is...
« Reply #3 on: June 06, 2007, 03:47:31 PM »
Even I knew that....
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Re: It's a new world record of speed and the winner is...
« Reply #4 on: June 06, 2007, 03:51:18 PM »
Even Gayer knew that...

Re: It's a new world record of speed and the winner is...
« Reply #5 on: June 06, 2007, 03:51:54 PM »
This can be seen in the equations of Relativity.

So explain it to me and base it on the equations because I'm familiar with them and it sounds to me that you have no idea what are you talk about.

Re: It's a new world record of speed and the winner is...
« Reply #6 on: June 06, 2007, 03:53:22 PM »
you can't reach the speed of light.  It's something about relativity, but you can't.
Of course you can't! This is the reason why the acceleration thing is bullshit

BTW, this is why I wrote "Ve>C ?!"

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Colonel Gaydafi

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Re: It's a new world record of speed and the winner is...
« Reply #7 on: June 06, 2007, 03:53:48 PM »
This can be seen in the equations of Relativity.

So explain it to me and base it on the equations because I'm familiar with them and it sounds to me that you have no idea what are you talk about.

Hahaha you so funny
Quote from: WardoggKC130FE
If Gayer doesn't remember you, you might as well do yourself a favor and become an hero.
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there is a difference between touching a muff and putting your hand into it isn't there?

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TheEngineer

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Re: It's a new world record of speed and the winner is...
« Reply #8 on: June 06, 2007, 03:54:16 PM »
w = (u +v)/(1+uv/c^2)

This equation shows that one cannot accelerate beyond the speed of light.  Since you claim to know them, you should know this one.


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Bushido

Re: It's a new world record of speed and the winner is...
« Reply #9 on: June 06, 2007, 03:54:27 PM »
The constant acceleration g is with respect to the moving observer, i.e. the Earth. If you make a Lorentz transformation for the components of the acceleration, you will se that the acceleration of the Earth a with respect to the inertial reference frame depends on its velocity v in such a way (a = g (1-v2/c2)3/2) that it will never reach the speed of light, not to mention to exceed it.

Re: It's a new world record of speed and the winner is...
« Reply #10 on: June 06, 2007, 03:56:05 PM »
Terrible handwriting too. If I was your tutor I'd give it back to you un-marked.

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Colonel Gaydafi

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Re: It's a new world record of speed and the winner is...
« Reply #11 on: June 06, 2007, 03:58:39 PM »
I;d give it back with kisses on

Everyone, who cares about this crap, there's a much more important thread in Everything Else!
Quote from: WardoggKC130FE
If Gayer doesn't remember you, you might as well do yourself a favor and become an hero.
Quote from: Raa
there is a difference between touching a muff and putting your hand into it isn't there?

Re: It's a new world record of speed and the winner is...
« Reply #12 on: June 06, 2007, 03:58:52 PM »
w = (u +v)/(1+uv/c^2)

This equation shows that one cannot accelerate beyond the speed of light.  Since you claim to know them, you should know this one.


 :o
I said that by your theory and given it should be faster then the light itself!

You said that the earth can accelerate forever according to theory of relativity

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Bushido

Re: It's a new world record of speed and the winner is...
« Reply #13 on: June 06, 2007, 04:00:27 PM »
Read my post. Then die!

Re: It's a new world record of speed and the winner is...
« Reply #14 on: June 06, 2007, 04:07:39 PM »
Terrible handwriting too. If I was your tutor I'd give it back to you un-marked.

Ensligh is not my mother tongue. I would like to see your handwriting in Hebrew before you judge me.

Re: It's a new world record of speed and the winner is...
« Reply #15 on: June 06, 2007, 04:09:12 PM »
Erm...what has language got to do with neatness?

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Bushido

Re: It's a new world record of speed and the winner is...
« Reply #16 on: June 06, 2007, 04:10:17 PM »
Kasroa's comment doesn't have anything to do with the topic!

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Colonel Gaydafi

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Re: It's a new world record of speed and the winner is...
« Reply #17 on: June 06, 2007, 04:10:50 PM »
I have terrible handwriting yet I speak the good English
Quote from: WardoggKC130FE
If Gayer doesn't remember you, you might as well do yourself a favor and become an hero.
Quote from: Raa
there is a difference between touching a muff and putting your hand into it isn't there?

Re: It's a new world record of speed and the winner is...
« Reply #18 on: June 06, 2007, 04:17:20 PM »
The earth?!

Well if the earth's acceleration is 9.8m/sec^2 it sould travel much faster then the speed of light. Light is the fastest way to deliver energy(by photos) so the dark energy can't affect earth! Moreover, the earth should be in a status of energy and not matter!

I calculated that if the earth moved in 1m/sec when I was born(18 years ago) today it sould be much faster then the speed of light(C=300,000 km/sec).

Your mistake is a common one even among freshmen in college. Don't fret. Ignore the abuse. You're right to challenge, but you do need to realize that Newtonian Physics don't apply to estimating once you start to get to a significant fraction of c. I told my students that if they ever saw velocities greater than .05c, they should switch to Lorenz's equations and the like.

Your thought experiment first requires that 18 years ago we dropped off an observer. That observer assumes that she isn't moving and now looks at the Earth as moving away. She measures the speed of Earth and finds that it is less than c. The Lorenz equations predict this result, though it's beyond me to calculate the result this evening. If you're really interested in this, please reply. I'd be happy to work with you. I encourage inquisitive efforts.

Now if you want to have some fun, consider the mass of the FE. F=integral(m(t)*dv/dt) from 0 to time. Mass increases exponential with time as the velocity approaches c. Consider how much force the UA must exert if the FE has a rest mass of 1*10^10 kg after 18 years of acceleration. After 180 year? After 1800 years? After 4 billion years? With a little effort, you'd quickly show that there isn't enough energy in the known Universe to power the UA. Please reply if you'd like to attack FE in this manner. We could work together, perhaps in a new thread, perhaps off-line and then present our completed results.

I hope that helps.

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Bushido

Re: It's a new world record of speed and the winner is...
« Reply #19 on: June 06, 2007, 04:21:27 PM »
Your mistake is a common one even among freshmen in college. Don't fret. Ignore the abuse. You're right to challenge, but you do need to realize that Newtonian Physics don't apply to estimating once you start to get to a significant fraction of c. I told my students that if they ever saw velocities greater than .05c, they should switch to Lorenz's equations and the like.

Your thought experiment first requires that 18 years ago we dropped off an observer. That observer assumes that she isn't moving and now looks at the Earth as moving away. She measures the speed of Earth and finds that it is less than c. The Lorenz equations predict this result, though it's beyond me to calculate the result this evening. If you're really interested in this, please reply. I'd be happy to work with you. I encourage inquisitive efforts.

Now if you want to have some fun, consider the mass of the FE. F=integral(m(t)*dv/dt) from 0 to time. Mass increases exponential with time as the velocity approaches c. Consider how much force the UA must exert if the FE has a rest mass of 1*10^10 kg after 18 years of acceleration. After 180 year? After 1800 years? After 4 billion years? With a little effort, you'd quickly show that there isn't enough energy in the known Universe to power the UA. Please reply if you'd like to attack FE in this manner. We could work together, perhaps in a new thread, perhaps off-line and then present our completed results.

I hope that helps.

If you write those kind of formulas to your student, you should be banned from entering the school.

Re: It's a new world record of speed and the winner is...
« Reply #20 on: June 06, 2007, 04:39:13 PM »
Your mistake is a common one even among freshmen in college. Don't fret. Ignore the abuse. You're right to challenge, but you do need to realize that Newtonian Physics don't apply to estimating once you start to get to a significant fraction of c. I told my students that if they ever saw velocities greater than .05c, they should switch to Lorenz's equations and the like.

Your thought experiment first requires that 18 years ago we dropped off an observer. That observer assumes that she isn't moving and now looks at the Earth as moving away. She measures the speed of Earth and finds that it is less than c. The Lorenz equations predict this result, though it's beyond me to calculate the result this evening. If you're really interested in this, please reply. I'd be happy to work with you. I encourage inquisitive efforts.

Now if you want to have some fun, consider the mass of the FE. F=integral(m(t)*dv/dt) from 0 to time. Mass increases exponential with time as the velocity approaches c. Consider how much force the UA must exert if the FE has a rest mass of 1*10^10 kg after 18 years of acceleration. After 180 year? After 1800 years? After 4 billion years? With a little effort, you'd quickly show that there isn't enough energy in the known Universe to power the UA. Please reply if you'd like to attack FE in this manner. We could work together, perhaps in a new thread, perhaps off-line and then present our completed results.

I hope that helps.

If you write those kind of formulas to your student, you should be banned from entering the school.
Oh, do tell. Please enlighten us on the error of my (or Newton's) ways. What is the correct formula?

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Bushido

Re: It's a new world record of speed and the winner is...
« Reply #21 on: June 06, 2007, 04:42:29 PM »
To start with, is that a definite or indefinite integral? What's the dummy variable in it?

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Colonel Gaydafi

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Re: It's a new world record of speed and the winner is...
« Reply #22 on: June 06, 2007, 04:43:37 PM »
*has SPSS flashbacks*
Quote from: WardoggKC130FE
If Gayer doesn't remember you, you might as well do yourself a favor and become an hero.
Quote from: Raa
there is a difference between touching a muff and putting your hand into it isn't there?

Re: It's a new world record of speed and the winner is...
« Reply #23 on: June 06, 2007, 04:45:18 PM »
To start with, is that a definite or indefinite integral? What's the dummy variable in it?
Definite from 0 to time. m is mass; v is velocity; t is time. All explained by Newton. Now back to my questions...

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Bushido

Re: It's a new world record of speed and the winner is...
« Reply #24 on: June 06, 2007, 04:46:33 PM »
Then your formula is dimensionally incorrect.

Re: It's a new world record of speed and the winner is...
« Reply #25 on: June 06, 2007, 04:52:40 PM »
Then your formula is dimensionally incorrect.
Okay. What is the correct formula for Force, given mass and acceleration?

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Bushido

Re: It's a new world record of speed and the winner is...
« Reply #26 on: June 06, 2007, 04:55:29 PM »
You are the "professor", so you figure it out. On the lhs you have a physical quantity of force and on the rhs you have a physical quantity with the dimension [m]x[v]x[t]/[t] = [m]x[v] (the integral signifies multiplication by time) of momentum.

Re: It's a new world record of speed and the winner is...
« Reply #27 on: June 06, 2007, 05:02:31 PM »
You are the "professor", so you figure it out. On the lhs you have a physical quantity of force and on the rhs you have a physical quantity with the dimension [m]x[v]x[t]/[t] = [m]x[v] (the integral signifies multiplication by time) of momentum.
Please check your algebra, assuming non-relativistic velocities:  F=ma = mv/t = integral(m(t)*dv/dt)). I'm quite happy to shown any error. It has been 25 years since I taught physics. I regularly make typographical errors. I even don't remember the right formula. You seem to be very confident about your position, please enlighten us.

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Bushido

Re: It's a new world record of speed and the winner is...
« Reply #28 on: June 06, 2007, 05:12:26 PM »
Force is equal to the rate of change of the momentum of the particle:

F = dp/dt

The momentum of a particle in relativistic mechanics is calculated by the formula:

p = m v/√(1 - v2/c2)

If you substitute this in the above equation (keeping in mind that the velocity vector has a constant direction during a linear motion, so that we can eliminate the vectors), and differentiate, you get:

F = m/(1 - v2/c2)3/2 dv/dt


Now, dv/dt is the acceleration wrt the inertial reference frame, and, as is seen from my previous post, it is dependant on velocity by the formula:

a = dv/dt = g (1 - v2/c2)3/2

Substituting this in the equation for the force, you see that the velocity factors cancel out and all that's left is:

F = m g

That means that the UA exerts a constant  force on the Earth. It also means that you phail. Now die!
« Last Edit: June 06, 2007, 05:27:44 PM by Bushido »

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TheEngineer

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Re: It's a new world record of speed and the winner is...
« Reply #29 on: June 06, 2007, 05:34:24 PM »
:o
I said that by your theory and given it should be faster then the light itself!
I know you said that.  I told you that you were wrong.

Quote
You said that the earth can accelerate forever according to theory of relativity
Yes, I did.  Thanks for noticing.


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