Christianity and Evolution

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afromonkey

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Re: Christianity and Evolution
« Reply #210 on: July 12, 2007, 04:29:49 PM »
How am I a satanist? Why cant i beleive in God and evolution? What disproves either?
I beleive in Micro evolution, small evolution, which has been proven. Mutation, if you will.

 And no, the Bible has not been translated completely right. The Bible is infallible. Translations, on the other hand, are not. There are three different types of translations of the Bible, as well as any other you might throw in. Literal (i.e. KJV) in which the words are translated as exact as posible, but not all words in hebrew/latin have a specific counterpart in english. Then there is a version that people try to translate the Bible for its vaule, or the main idea THEY think it is tring to say (student Bible). And last there is the mesh of these two, where they try to combine these ideas, but none of these are perfect.
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beast

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Re: Christianity and Evolution
« Reply #211 on: July 13, 2007, 06:44:49 AM »
How am I a satanist? Why cant i beleive in God and evolution? What disproves either?
I beleive in Micro evolution, small evolution, which has been proven. Mutation, if you will.

There is no distinction between "micro evolution" and "macro evolution."  Macro evolution is simply micro evolution over a long period of time.

Given the fact that you can't spell a word as basic as "believe," I don't find it that surprising that you clearly have no knowledge of evolution at all.

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Masterchef

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Re: Christianity and Evolution
« Reply #212 on: July 13, 2007, 10:30:28 AM »
And no, the Bible has not been translated completely right. The Bible is infallible. Translations, on the other hand, are not. There are three different types of translations of the Bible, as well as any other you might throw in. Literal (i.e. KJV) in which the words are translated as exact as posible, but not all words in hebrew/latin have a specific counterpart in english. Then there is a version that people try to translate the Bible for its vaule, or the main idea THEY think it is tring to say (student Bible). And last there is the mesh of these two, where they try to combine these ideas, but none of these are perfect.
How does one distinguish between the parts that were translated literally and the ones that weren't?

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dysfunction

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Re: Christianity and Evolution
« Reply #213 on: July 13, 2007, 01:37:49 PM »
How am I a satanist? Why cant i beleive in God and evolution? What disproves either?
I beleive in Micro evolution, small evolution, which has been proven. Mutation, if you will.

 And no, the Bible has not been translated completely right. The Bible is infallible. Translations, on the other hand, are not. There are three different types of translations of the Bible, as well as any other you might throw in. Literal (i.e. KJV) in which the words are translated as exact as posible, but not all words in hebrew/latin have a specific counterpart in english. Then there is a version that people try to translate the Bible for its vaule, or the main idea THEY think it is tring to say (student Bible). And last there is the mesh of these two, where they try to combine these ideas, but none of these are perfect.

If you think the KJV is a literal translation, you really need to learn a bit about the history of your religion.
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Re: Christianity and Evolution
« Reply #214 on: July 13, 2007, 06:40:20 PM »
I only read the opening statment and that was enough for me. The Bible was not translated as literaly as people would think. This happens in several cases, the earliest would be YOM. In the hebrew version of the Bible, it use the word YOM, which in some cases means "day" and in others just means "a length of time". That means that it could have been done in a week or in billions of years. In any case, I'm a Christian and I believe in some sort of Evolution AND the Bible. Could that be the answer to how?

Exactly what I was trying to get at! They are both possible!
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Raist

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Re: Christianity and Evolution
« Reply #215 on: July 13, 2007, 08:02:10 PM »
How am I a satanist? Why cant i beleive in God and evolution? What disproves either?
I beleive in Micro evolution, small evolution, which has been proven. Mutation, if you will.

 And no, the Bible has not been translated completely right. The Bible is infallible. Translations, on the other hand, are not. There are three different types of translations of the Bible, as well as any other you might throw in. Literal (i.e. KJV) in which the words are translated as exact as posible, but not all words in hebrew/latin have a specific counterpart in english. Then there is a version that people try to translate the Bible for its vaule, or the main idea THEY think it is tring to say (student Bible). And last there is the mesh of these two, where they try to combine these ideas, but none of these are perfect.

I believe that god created the universe in the big bang and let the rest happen from there. I think the bible is definitely fallible having been written by extremely biases jewish men over thousands of years and then edited by an over-controlling, biased, and pretty much deceiving catholic church.

The bible holds far too many contradictory statements and too many religious texts were left out for arbitrary/political reasons by the catholics for anyone to seriously consider it to be infallible.

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Midnight

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Re: Christianity and Evolution
« Reply #216 on: July 13, 2007, 08:12:33 PM »
Anytime, ever, I see both 'the Bible' and 'infallible' in a sentence, I come to the instant realization that I am dealing with a fundamentalist fanatic, and anything said past that point is without meaning and will result in nothing accomplished. Let them live on and die with their dogma.
My problem with his ideas is that it is a ridiculous thing.

Genius. PURE, undiluted genius.

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cmdshft

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Re: Christianity and Evolution
« Reply #217 on: July 13, 2007, 08:36:06 PM »

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Midnight

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Re: Christianity and Evolution
« Reply #218 on: July 13, 2007, 08:37:51 PM »
My problem with his ideas is that it is a ridiculous thing.

Genius. PURE, undiluted genius.

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Re: Christianity and Evolution
« Reply #219 on: July 13, 2007, 08:54:19 PM »
I only read the opening statment and that was enough for me. The Bible was not translated as literaly as people would think. This happens in several cases, the earliest would be YOM. In the hebrew version of the Bible, it use the word YOM, which in some cases means "day" and in others just means "a length of time". That means that it could have been done in a week or in billions of years. In any case, I'm a Christian and I believe in some sort of Evolution AND the Bible. Could that be the answer to how?

The KJV Bible is one hundred percent correct. And you can't be a Christian and believe in evolution. You Satanist!

False, you most certainly can.
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Re: Christianity and Evolution
« Reply #220 on: July 13, 2007, 08:58:16 PM »
Anytime, ever, I see both 'the Bible' and 'infallible' in a sentence, I come to the instant realization that I am dealing with a fundamentalist fanatic, and anything said past that point is without meaning and will result in nothing accomplished. Let them live on and die with their dogma.

Its amazing how ignorant people can be towards Christianity, or Theism for that matter, or just RELIGION!

If you want to truly say "These people are wrong," study the religion with their priests for a few months or years, and THEN make your choice. At least study it intensely before denying it "right-off-the-bat."
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cmdshft

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Re: Christianity and Evolution
« Reply #221 on: July 13, 2007, 09:04:11 PM »
Its amazing how ignorant people can be towards Christianity, or Theism for that matter, or just RELIGION!

Theism and religion are basically one in the same.

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Raist

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Re: Christianity and Evolution
« Reply #222 on: July 13, 2007, 09:13:10 PM »
Anytime, ever, I see both 'the Bible' and 'infallible' in a sentence, I come to the instant realization that I am dealing with a fundamentalist fanatic, and anything said past that point is without meaning and will result in nothing accomplished. Let them live on and die with their dogma.

Its amazing how ignorant people can be towards Christianity, or Theism for that matter, or just RELIGION!

If you want to truly say "These people are wrong," study the religion with their priests for a few months or years, and THEN make your choice. At least study it intensely before denying it "right-off-the-bat."

Actually he never said their religion was wrong. He simply stated that people who claim the bible is infallible (something never mentioned anywhere in the bible or any religious texts) are obviously dogmatic and are impossible to argue with. Please try to interperate what people say instead of what you want them to say so you can hate them.

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Midnight

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Re: Christianity and Evolution
« Reply #223 on: July 13, 2007, 09:59:01 PM »
Anytime, ever, I see both 'the Bible' and 'infallible' in a sentence, I come to the instant realization that I am dealing with a fundamentalist fanatic, and anything said past that point is without meaning and will result in nothing accomplished. Let them live on and die with their dogma.

Its amazing how ignorant people can be towards Christianity, or Theism for that matter, or just RELIGION!

If you want to truly say "These people are wrong," study the religion with their priests for a few months or years, and THEN make your choice. At least study it intensely before denying it "right-off-the-bat."

This is my favorite moment in these discussions. It always brings a knowing smile to my face. Well earned, to be sure.

You know nothing about me. You know not who I am, where I am, what I believe and do not believe. You assume much, and we all know what that means. It means you are reaching, grasping, desperate to not be viewed for what many people here already think about your species of poster. You come into the middle of things with one goal: To be heard. To be seen. To be acknowledged.

So did I. So do all of these people who post on a forum. It is part of being human, to seek out an audience, to be part of something..

The difference between myself and yourself, however, is that you are trying too hard to be right, at the expense of reason.

Reason takes effort. Reason takes passion measured betwixt poise and the seeking of actual knowledge. Opinion is the right of all people, but opinions are, more often than not, based on assumption, not facts.

I was raised a Southern Baptist. My mother was thus. Her mother was Roman Catholic. My uncles and aunts are all variations of the Catholic thematic perception of reality. We also contain Methodism, and other sects from Christianity, without our family.

My point then, is that, before your assumption that I am anti-God, or anti-religion, you might have inquired as to the purpose of my aforementioned disdain for organized religion. Questions are better than blanket statements, and can bridge gaps otherwise unbuilt. When you don't know something, speaking on it makes you look like a neophyte.

I sit at a larger table. You may go now.
My problem with his ideas is that it is a ridiculous thing.

Genius. PURE, undiluted genius.

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Raist

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Re: Christianity and Evolution
« Reply #224 on: July 13, 2007, 10:04:35 PM »
Owned.

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Roundy the Truthinessist

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Re: Christianity and Evolution
« Reply #225 on: July 14, 2007, 07:25:54 AM »
Anytime, ever, I see both 'the Bible' and 'infallible' in a sentence, I come to the instant realization that I am dealing with a fundamentalist fanatic, and anything said past that point is without meaning and will result in nothing accomplished. Let them live on and die with their dogma.

Its amazing how ignorant people can be towards Christianity, or Theism for that matter, or just RELIGION!

If you want to truly say "These people are wrong," study the religion with their priests for a few months or years, and THEN make your choice. At least study it intensely before denying it "right-off-the-bat."

This is my favorite moment in these discussions. It always brings a knowing smile to my face. Well earned, to be sure.

You know nothing about me. You know not who I am, where I am, what I believe and do not believe. You assume much, and we all know what that means. It means you are reaching, grasping, desperate to not be viewed for what many people here already think about your species of poster. You come into the middle of things with one goal: To be heard. To be seen. To be acknowledged.

So did I. So do all of these people who post on a forum. It is part of being human, to seek out an audience, to be part of something..

The difference between myself and yourself, however, is that you are trying too hard to be right, at the expense of reason.

Reason takes effort. Reason takes passion measured betwixt poise and the seeking of actual knowledge. Opinion is the right of all people, but opinions are, more often than not, based on assumption, not facts.

I was raised a Southern Baptist. My mother was thus. Her mother was Roman Catholic. My uncles and aunts are all variations of the Catholic thematic perception of reality. We also contain Methodism, and other sects from Christianity, without our family.

My point then, is that, before your assumption that I am anti-God, or anti-religion, you might have inquired as to the purpose of my aforementioned disdain for organized religion. Questions are better than blanket statements, and can bridge gaps otherwise unbuilt. When you don't know something, speaking on it makes you look like a neophyte.

I sit at a larger table. You may go now.

 ;D

Honestly, I'm not sure if it's related (to this day I'm not exactly sure what your religious beliefs are, Midnight), but it always tickles me when a religious person assumes that someone who is not religious does not understand religion.  I myself have studied the Bible, as well as the holy works of other religions, and I came by my disdain for religion quite honestly, personally, as I feel most atheists and agnostics have.  I've posted it before: I feel that in general someone who questions a religion has more understanding about that religion than someone who blindly follows it, as the majority of truly religious people do.  Understand, I realize that's a generalization, and I'm not saying that's necessarily the case with Politically Spherical, and I'm not even saying a person can't be intelligent and still be religious (in fact, I have argued against that point on this very forum).  But it is very often assumed by the religious that an atheist or agnostic does not understand their religion (usually Christianity), and in most cases, that is simply not true in my experience.
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Re: Christianity and Evolution
« Reply #226 on: July 14, 2007, 04:57:43 PM »
Roundy The Liar:

I never said Midnight does not understand religion. I just asked him to take a year of his life to study one further.


Midnight:

The reason I stated what I stated was because you clearly show yourself as Atheist, and bash those who aren't. I addressed this in anger. I never said your family, or yourself, didn't have religious ties. I just asked you to spend a year studing Christianity before bashing those who are christian. I haven't bashed an Atheist, and I won't, because I don't know enough about it. If you've have formal studies with a priest or "Christianity specialist," fine. If not, I'd like you to before bashing me, my brothers, and my religion.
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sokarul

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Re: Christianity and Evolution
« Reply #227 on: July 14, 2007, 05:40:14 PM »
I just asked him to take a year of his life to study one further.

If I was going to study something for a year thats fake I would study boobs. 
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Raist

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Re: Christianity and Evolution
« Reply #228 on: July 14, 2007, 05:46:25 PM »
Roundy The Liar:

I never said Midnight does not understand religion. I just asked him to take a year of his life to study one further.


Midnight:

The reason I stated what I stated was because you clearly show yourself as Atheist, and bash those who aren't. I addressed this in anger. I never said your family, or yourself, didn't have religious ties. I just asked you to spend a year studing Christianity before bashing those who are christian. I haven't bashed an Atheist, and I won't, because I don't know enough about it. If you've have formal studies with a priest or "Christianity specialist," fine. If not, I'd like you to before bashing me, my brothers, and my religion.

When you tell someone to study something you're pretty much telling them that you assume they know nothing about it.

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Re: Christianity and Evolution
« Reply #229 on: July 14, 2007, 07:17:45 PM »
Roundy The Liar:

I never said Midnight does not understand religion. I just asked him to take a year of his life to study one further.


Midnight:

The reason I stated what I stated was because you clearly show yourself as Atheist, and bash those who aren't. I addressed this in anger. I never said your family, or yourself, didn't have religious ties. I just asked you to spend a year studing Christianity before bashing those who are christian. I haven't bashed an Atheist, and I won't, because I don't know enough about it. If you've have formal studies with a priest or "Christianity specialist," fine. If not, I'd like you to before bashing me, my brothers, and my religion.

When you tell someone to study something you're pretty much telling them that you assume they know nothing about it.

No, i'm telling them to learn more about it.
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Re: Christianity and Evolution
« Reply #230 on: July 14, 2007, 07:19:17 PM »
I just asked him to take a year of his life to study one further.

If I was going to study something for a year thats fake I would study boobs. 

You need to study it to PROOVE that its fake, first.
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Midnight

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Re: Christianity and Evolution
« Reply #231 on: July 14, 2007, 08:01:03 PM »
Roundy The Liar:

I never said Midnight does not understand religion. I just asked him to take a year of his life to study one further.


Midnight:

The reason I stated what I stated was because you clearly show yourself as Atheist, and bash those who aren't. I addressed this in anger. I never said your family, or yourself, didn't have religious ties. I just asked you to spend a year studing Christianity before bashing those who are christian. I haven't bashed an Atheist, and I won't, because I don't know enough about it. If you've have formal studies with a priest or "Christianity specialist," fine. If not, I'd like you to before bashing me, my brothers, and my religion.

And the reason I responded in kind is because my entire life has been spent 'studing' as you put it, the church, the history of said church, and the social/economical/military history and implications of it. You are not talking to a God-hating, rebellious teenager who is merely trying to be cool. You are talking to someone who has been gang raped and force fed dogmatic, mindless, overblown sense of entitlement his entire 28 years of existence upon this planet.

Formal studies? You simply have no concept.

As for calling YOU and YOURS anything, you are internalizing a concept from my wording and making it a personal affront. I cannot counsel you on the evils of that. Only you can assume what you will.

I was speaking about religion as a hole, as I often do, and yet in this case, was mentioning how to spot a fanatic. Fanatical people are immovable with reason, passion, or even kindness. They will make a statement, and deny any and all possible changes of course. The Commander in Chief of our nation is one such bird. Watch his behavior, remove the political ideals, just watch him speak and act. The man is a fanatic. Such people are no better than the "terrorist" fanatics they see in every shrub and alleyway. They are fanatics.

I now abandon this pitiful excuse for a debate.
« Last Edit: July 14, 2007, 08:04:36 PM by Midnight »
My problem with his ideas is that it is a ridiculous thing.

Genius. PURE, undiluted genius.

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sokarul

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Re: Christianity and Evolution
« Reply #232 on: July 14, 2007, 09:38:00 PM »
I just asked him to take a year of his life to study one further.

If I was going to study something for a year thats fake I would study boobs. 

You need to study it to PROOVE that its fake, first.
I know enough to know when somethings fake. 
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Re: Christianity and Evolution
« Reply #233 on: July 14, 2007, 09:53:50 PM »
I just asked him to take a year of his life to study one further.

If I was going to study something for a year thats fake I would study boobs. 

You need to study it to PROOVE that its fake, first.

There is so much evidence that Christianity is fake, that no effort is required to "proove [sic]" it.  The crimes Jesus was "crucified" for were not prosecuted with a crucifixion at that time, however the cross was a strong religious symbol that Christianity stole; hence the story of Jesus morphed into one of crucifixion.  Much of Christian mythology, - the virgin birth, the resurrection, walking on water etc. are found in pre Christian religions around the same time.  Many parts of the bible were clearly written in just to meet specifications of the old testament and are clearly wrong.  For example the apparent census that led to Joseph and Mary going to Bethlehem took place under a governor of Syria (according to the New Testament) who didn't actually hold that position until 6 years after Jesus' supposed death, and just consider the logistics of a census where people have to go to a different town because a relative of theirs 1000 years ago lived there.  Would you know exactly which town to go to if that census took place today?

The Bible is clearly not a factually honest document, and so how could a religion based on such a document be true?

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divito the truthist

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Re: Christianity and Evolution
« Reply #234 on: July 15, 2007, 05:28:51 AM »
There are so many problems with organized religion.  It's also funny how many people put themselves through it when it's completely unnecessary.
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beast

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Re: Christianity and Evolution
« Reply #235 on: July 15, 2007, 06:57:08 AM »
Why just organised religion?  What's so good about disorganised religion?

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divito the truthist

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Re: Christianity and Evolution
« Reply #236 on: July 15, 2007, 07:15:02 AM »
Why just organised religion?  What's so good about disorganised religion?

I'm just working with the definition.

"a set of beliefs concerning the cause, nature, and purpose of the universe, esp. when considered as the creation of a superhuman agency or agencies, usually involving devotional and ritual observances, and often containing a moral code governing the conduct of human affairs."


Almost everybody has thoughts regarding this, separate of organized religion and its ridiculous influences.
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Re: Christianity and Evolution
« Reply #237 on: July 15, 2007, 10:35:22 AM »
Well, you could study with a priest for a year. Or you could, you know, learn the smart way and experience the world...

Sorry, this need to go to a church annoys me. Sure, some people require a place to focus on prayer. But the rest are being ignorant sheep.

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Re: Christianity and Evolution
« Reply #238 on: July 15, 2007, 10:59:27 AM »
I just asked him to take a year of his life to study one further.

If I was going to study something for a year thats fake I would study boobs. 

You need to study it to PROOVE that its fake, first.

There is so much evidence that Christianity is fake, that no effort is required to "proove [sic]" it.  The crimes Jesus was "crucified" for were not prosecuted with a crucifixion at that time, however the cross was a strong religious symbol that Christianity stole; hence the story of Jesus morphed into one of crucifixion.  Much of Christian mythology, - the virgin birth, the resurrection, walking on water etc. are found in pre Christian religions around the same time.  Many parts of the bible were clearly written in just to meet specifications of the old testament and are clearly wrong.  For example the apparent census that led to Joseph and Mary going to Bethlehem took place under a governor of Syria (according to the New Testament) who didn't actually hold that position until 6 years after Jesus' supposed death, and just consider the logistics of a census where people have to go to a different town because a relative of theirs 1000 years ago lived there.  Would you know exactly which town to go to if that census took place today?

The Bible is clearly not a factually honest document, and so how could a religion based on such a document be true?

Much of this paragraph is false. The crimes committed WERE prosecuted with a Crucifixion by the Romans at that time. By the way, the Croos did not take its effect as the "symbol" for christianity until the monks came along and seperated the verses and chapters in the Middle Ages. From Daniel J. Harrington:

"The best clue toward determining who killed Jesus is found in the way he died—by crucifixion. In Jesus’ time, crucifixion was a Roman punishment inflicted mainly on slaves and revolutionaries. The usual Jewish mode of execution was stoning, as in the case of Stephen. Crucifixion was a cruel and public way to die. It was meant to shame the one being executed and to deter onlookers from doing what he had done."

I would like a verse from scripture about the "Syrian Governor after Jesus' death." I do not recall such a verse. Please relay it to me.

Jospeh and Mary had to go back to Bethlehem for the census because he was from the line of David. Geneaology was very important topeople back then. (Like money and power is today). It was widely known. Also, Caesar Augustus, who made the decree, basically said he wanted the Jews to have trouble and stress finding where they needed to go. If they didn't go and pay taxes, they were killed.
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beast

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Re: Christianity and Evolution
« Reply #239 on: July 18, 2007, 03:36:43 AM »
Both your sources come from religious apologists.

The comment about the the Crucifixion isn't evidence at all, because it makes the assumption that he really was crucified, and then attempts to explain why.  What historical evidence outside of the Bible, written at the time that the events occurred claims that he was crucified, or that anybody was crucified at those times?

Luke 2:2 claims that Governor Quirinius or Cyrenius (depending on which version of the Bible you're reading) was the Governor who carried out the census. 

Question;  Has our record keeping and literacy got better over the last 1000 years or worse?  What evidence is there that people kept records of the ancestors for the last 1000 years.  At what stage in history did they stop doing this?  And how did they decide what time in the past you had to go back to?  Was it 1000 years for everybody, or longer?  And why would it be important that you go so far back?  Couldn't the census people just get people to write down where their ancestors were 1000 years ago?