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More questions on Aircraft.

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Jamesblonde

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More questions on Aircraft.
« on: May 08, 2007, 10:06:33 PM »
Given that under the flat earth theory there is no gravity, just the mechanical force of the earth's acceleration, then why do aircraft fall out of the sky? Having launched from a surface accelerating at 9.8m/s^2 they would naturally assume the momentum of that body so in the absence of an attractive force (gravity) how do aircraft and other airborne objects fall withut the aid of mechanical acceleration towards the earth?
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TheEngineer

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Re: More questions on Aircraft.
« Reply #1 on: May 08, 2007, 11:14:31 PM »
They don't fall, the earth catches up to them.
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Saddam Hussein

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Re: More questions on Aircraft.
« Reply #2 on: May 09, 2007, 08:10:31 AM »
They cannot fly around the world either.  Those who claim they have work for NASA and are bribed liars.
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Ethan_MVgolfer2008

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Re: More questions on Aircraft.
« Reply #3 on: May 09, 2007, 10:24:46 AM »
No of course they can't because the vast majority of the world has been bribed by a secret organization that only poeple on this site know about, but they have never been approached by them.

The government has too much power! We must rise up! Fight the injustice of the RE conspiracists!
« Last Edit: May 09, 2007, 10:47:00 AM by Ethan_MVgolfer2008 »
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Mongrelman

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Re: More questions on Aircraft.
« Reply #4 on: May 09, 2007, 01:19:27 PM »
Quote from: TheEngineer on May 08, 2007, 11:14:31 PM
They don't fall, the earth catches up to them.

I daresay you have missed his point entirely.  I understand what he is saying, I think.  In fact, the same applies for simply jumping.

With the theory of universal acceleration, I am currently moving at 9.8m/s^2, correct?  No matter what, correct?  So if I jump off the ground, I'd still be moving that fast, I'd just be moving slightly above the Earth.  With nothing to slow me down in effect (no tension in midair, no gravity on FE), I'd be moving at 9.8m/s^2 no matter what I did.  So it would never catch up to me because I'd still be moving the same speed as it, just slightly above it. 

HOW does it catch up?  Right now, both myself and the Earth are moving at 9.8m/s^2.  So what slows me down enough for it to catch me when I jump?
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Colonel Gaydafi

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Re: More questions on Aircraft.
« Reply #5 on: May 09, 2007, 01:21:40 PM »
Well no because you're not accelerating yourself, its the earth that is accelerating so when you jump off the earth you stop moving with it and so then it catches up to you
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TheEngineer

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Re: More questions on Aircraft.
« Reply #6 on: May 09, 2007, 01:22:23 PM »
Um, velocity and acceleration are not the same thing.  You may want to consult Newton's Laws of Motion before reposting.
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∂G/∂x

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Re: More questions on Aircraft.
« Reply #7 on: May 09, 2007, 01:25:10 PM »
Good one boys...i mean boy and girl. When you jump off the Earth you cease accelerating. Mass only accelerates when acted on by imbalanced forces. The UA is a perfect match for "gravity" in an everyday sense, the problem comes when gravitation is measured differently at different points on Earth.
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Colonel Gaydafi

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Re: More questions on Aircraft.
« Reply #8 on: May 09, 2007, 01:26:45 PM »
So wait, was what I said right?
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TheEngineer

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Re: More questions on Aircraft.
« Reply #9 on: May 09, 2007, 01:27:45 PM »
Quote from: GeneralGayhand on May 09, 2007, 01:26:45 PM
So wait, was what I said right?
Pretty much.
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Mongrelman

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Re: More questions on Aircraft.
« Reply #10 on: May 09, 2007, 01:28:06 PM »
... Oops.  I was completely mislead, and I do sincerely apologize.  I was under the impression that the Earth was moving at a constant speed, not accelerating... out of curiosity, how fast IS the Earth moving at this point?
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Colonel Gaydafi

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Re: More questions on Aircraft.
« Reply #11 on: May 09, 2007, 01:28:34 PM »
Brilliant ;D I'm getting better at this
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TheEngineer

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Re: More questions on Aircraft.
« Reply #12 on: May 09, 2007, 01:28:46 PM »
Less than the speed of light.

I can see how 9.8m/s^2 would make you think velocity... ::)
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Mongrelman

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Re: More questions on Aircraft.
« Reply #13 on: May 09, 2007, 01:29:57 PM »
Will we eventually be moving faster than the speed of light?  That seems only inevitable, if we constantly accelerate.

And like I said, mislead.  In my classes, we generally write acceleration as 9.8m/s/s, as in increasing in velocity by 9.8 miles per second for each second that passes.  I've never seen it written using the ^ symbol before.
« Last Edit: May 09, 2007, 01:32:48 PM by Mongrelman... Or so I'm told... »
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TheEngineer

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Re: More questions on Aircraft.
« Reply #14 on: May 09, 2007, 01:30:45 PM »
No, as can be shown in the equations of Special Relativity.
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Colonel Gaydafi

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Re: More questions on Aircraft.
« Reply #15 on: May 09, 2007, 01:32:52 PM »
Special Relativity? That's another thing you gotta explain to me
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Mongrelman

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Re: More questions on Aircraft.
« Reply #16 on: May 09, 2007, 01:33:20 PM »
I would also like to know what special relativity is.
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TheEngineer

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Re: More questions on Aircraft.
« Reply #17 on: May 09, 2007, 01:33:39 PM »
Quote from: GeneralGayhand on May 09, 2007, 01:32:52 PM
Special Relativity? That's another thing you gotta explain to me
That one is a bit easier than GR.
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Colonel Gaydafi

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Re: More questions on Aircraft.
« Reply #18 on: May 09, 2007, 01:35:04 PM »
Quote from: TheEngineer on May 09, 2007, 01:33:39 PM
Quote from: GeneralGayhand on May 09, 2007, 01:32:52 PM
Special Relativity? That's another thing you gotta explain to me
That one is a bit easier than GR.

Then do it, explain it please, pretty please
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∂G/∂x

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Re: More questions on Aircraft.
« Reply #19 on: May 09, 2007, 01:36:14 PM »
Basically you can never get to c, the speed of light. From the perspective of someone watching the Earth accelerate away, you would approach c ever more slowly, never getting there. From the Earth's frame of reference, we might as well have started accelerating yesterday for all the difference it would make to how we perceive it.

Edit: What I just (poorly) described is the difference between velocity addition in non-relativistic speeds (every day ones that are small fractions of c) and relativistic ones which are affected more by GR. Two objects traveling in opposite directions at 0.5*c will perceive each other moving away at something like 0.9*c not c. Ah, velocity addition.
« Last Edit: May 09, 2007, 01:38:43 PM by Gin »
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Colonel Gaydafi

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Re: More questions on Aircraft.
« Reply #20 on: May 09, 2007, 01:37:40 PM »
But that don't make sense
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Mongrelman

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Re: More questions on Aircraft.
« Reply #21 on: May 09, 2007, 01:37:56 PM »
Well yeah, but I'm not asking about perspective.  In actual fact, perspectives aside, shouldn't we be moving at faster than the speed of light by now, even if we don't notice it?
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TheEngineer

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Re: More questions on Aircraft.
« Reply #22 on: May 09, 2007, 02:48:24 PM »
Quote from: Mongrelman... Or so I'm told... on May 09, 2007, 01:37:56 PM
Well yeah, but I'm not asking about perspective.  In actual fact, perspectives aside, shouldn't we be moving at faster than the speed of light by now, even if we don't notice it?
No, as it's prevented by Special Relativity.
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Re: More questions on Aircraft.
« Reply #23 on: May 09, 2007, 02:49:09 PM »
Perspectives, more precisely Frames of Reference, are key to relativity.
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Mongrelman

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Re: More questions on Aircraft.
« Reply #24 on: May 09, 2007, 02:50:46 PM »
Quote from: TheEngineer on May 09, 2007, 02:48:24 PM
Quote from: Mongrelman... Or so I'm told... on May 09, 2007, 01:37:56 PM
Well yeah, but I'm not asking about perspective.  In actual fact, perspectives aside, shouldn't we be moving at faster than the speed of light by now, even if we don't notice it?
No, as it's prevented by Special Relativity.

I don't understand how.  Can't you please just explain the principals of special relativity?
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Colonel Gaydafi

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Re: More questions on Aircraft.
« Reply #25 on: May 09, 2007, 02:53:32 PM »
If special relativity is what Gin said then it don't make sense to me
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∂G/∂x

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Re: More questions on Aircraft.
« Reply #26 on: May 09, 2007, 02:55:47 PM »
It's not exactly what I said, I'm a wikipedia-educated expert (read: fool) on it.
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TheEngineer

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Re: More questions on Aircraft.
« Reply #27 on: May 09, 2007, 02:57:34 PM »
Quote from: GeneralGayhand on May 09, 2007, 01:37:40 PM
Special Relativity? That's another thing you gotta explain to me

All of us, everything in the universe, everything, moves through spacetime at the speed of light.  Spacetime is made up of four dimensions, the three spacial ones we notice every day, and time.  Now, if you are at rest, with zero movement in the space dimensions, then you travel through time at the speed of light.  As you begin to travel in the three spacial dimensions, you have less velocity to move through time, as all the vectors must add to the speed of light.  So, the faster you go through space, the slower you go though time.

That's the main tenant of SR.  Everything else is based on the fact that the fastest one can travel is the speed of light.  Now, there are relativistic issues, based on frames of reference and what one will observe in them, but that will be for a later discussion.
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Colonel Gaydafi

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Re: More questions on Aircraft.
« Reply #28 on: May 09, 2007, 02:59:57 PM »
Thanks Engy Baby but I think I might have to re-read that when I haven't been drinking
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TheEngineer

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Re: More questions on Aircraft.
« Reply #29 on: May 09, 2007, 03:01:46 PM »
Quote from: Mongrelman... Or so I'm told... on May 09, 2007, 02:50:46 PM
Quote from: TheEngineer on May 09, 2007, 02:48:24 PM
Quote from: Mongrelman... Or so I'm told... on May 09, 2007, 01:37:56 PM
Well yeah, but I'm not asking about perspective.  In actual fact, perspectives aside, shouldn't we be moving at faster than the speed of light by now, even if we don't notice it?
No, as it's prevented by Special Relativity.

I don't understand how.  Can't you please just explain the principals of special relativity?
I will do you one better.  Here's the reason we can't accelerate to the speed of light:

w = (u+v)/(1+uv/c^2)

Where u is the current speed, v is 9.81m/s (from gaining 9.8m/s every second of travel), c is the speed of light and w is the new speed, to be u in successive iterations.  Start at u=0 and see how long it takes to reach the speed of light. 

Hint: Never.
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