Poll

Does God exist?

Yes
46 (57.5%)
no
34 (42.5%)

Total Members Voted: 66

Voting closed: March 11, 2006, 09:45:19 PM

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Existance of God

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Testing

Existance of God
« Reply #60 on: June 25, 2006, 12:26:35 PM »
I never heard of pascals wager before ... and i figured it on my own a while ago :) ,anyway i believed in god way before i figured that out.
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EarthFlowerGirl

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Existance of God
« Reply #61 on: June 25, 2006, 12:34:51 PM »
God exists, and he only saves those who believe in him.
Bless you all.
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et us all embrace the will of God.
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Erasmus

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Existance of God
« Reply #62 on: June 25, 2006, 12:37:00 PM »
Quote from: "cheesejoff"
If you believe in Santa, you get a Christmas present.

If you don't, you lose nothing.


Don't tell my dad this, but I stopped believing in Santa long ago, and I still get Christmas presents from him.  Teehee!
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EarthFlowerGirl

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Existance of God
« Reply #63 on: June 25, 2006, 04:58:48 PM »
Sarthos, Im so glad someone know's math!! Whoopie!! :D:D:D:D:
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DrQuak

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Existance of God
« Reply #64 on: June 25, 2006, 05:08:04 PM »
err sarthos isn't that physics not maths (i mean i know physics is just maths with big words attached, but still).


and you will also find that you can create matter you muppet


it is energy you can create or destroy.

matter is merely a lot of energy stored in a potential.


you can also conserve momentum, spin, parity (however there are exceptions to conservation of parity depending on the decay route).


but i'm afraid matter can be created and destroyed. Infact the amount of energy that it takes to separate two quarks is greater than the energy it takes to create two quarks - this is why you can never have quarks existing by them selves).


also what is your +8 in there for?

not entirely sure what your trying to say with your - infinity stuff.


Also if you were ever able to prove the existence of god that, in its self, would disprove the existence of god since god demands that belief in him is based apon blind faith.
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Sarthos

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Existance of God
« Reply #65 on: June 25, 2006, 05:14:00 PM »
-infinity is negative infinity (you know, if you subtract infinity from zero)

+8 because infinity + 8 is still infinity

and it means a supernatural force (if you looked at the post) created it.  So, there's a chance some other supernatural force could have created it.  

And if you switch the word "matter" with "energy" it gives the same meaning.

Also, any non-believers should be shot.
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DrQuak

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Existance of God
« Reply #66 on: June 26, 2006, 03:16:52 AM »
actually you'll find that infinity +8 has no meaning


and i damn well know what negative infinity is i was just wondering what on earth all that waffling you did was about.


you can't say that -inf +8 =- inf. -inf + 8 has NO MEANING....it is sorta like saying 0 x 5... it is pointless, redundant. and you wouldn't say 0 x 5 = 0, so 0/0=5 therefore god exists.


what you are wanting is a particle flux density integrated over all time (which is infinity to -infinity). If the integral has no dependency on time, then the number of particles in the universe is constant at all points of time. you cannot do it your way because it makes f*ck all sense.
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Evil Pie

Existance of God
« Reply #67 on: August 15, 2006, 05:58:37 PM »
i just do.
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Aralith

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Existance of God
« Reply #68 on: August 15, 2006, 07:16:49 PM »
I most definitely believe in a God. There was a time when I didn't, but I was converted to the LDS church (Mormon in layman's terms) after merely investigating it for informational purposes. Not only does it make more sense to me than other forms of Christianity, but also there is no way that I can deny it. I felt, as missionaries would put it, a "burning in the bosom". This basically means that you feel a very strong, warm sensation in your chest. I felt this when I prayed about it. The Holy Ghost was telling me that it was true. I cannot deny this experience, thus I believe in God.
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Rick_James

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Existance of God
« Reply #69 on: August 15, 2006, 07:32:16 PM »
Quote from: "Aralith"
I most definitely believe in a God. There was a time when I didn't, but I was converted to the LDS church (Mormon in layman's terms) after merely investigating it for informational purposes. Not only does it make more sense to me than other forms of Christianity, but also there is no way that I can deny it. I felt, as missionaries would put it, a "burning in the bosom". This basically means that you feel a very strong, warm sensation in your chest. I felt this when I prayed about it. The Holy Ghost was telling me that it was true. I cannot deny this experience, thus I believe in God.


Wow, I found the Mormon beliefs (or at least the story of John Smith) the most hard to believe! Unless I was given a distorted description.

On a related matter, a guy called John Safran in Australia went to Utah as part of his show, dressed up in the mormon like attire (suit without jacket, backpack, name tag) but his name tag said aethiest, and he went around doorknocking (liek we get heaps of here in Aus) trying to seel them Aethiesm. It was funny - turns out most mormons don't like people selling religiong door to door either. Funny that!
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Feralkitten

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Existance of God
« Reply #70 on: August 16, 2006, 10:52:30 AM »
If there is a God is he all powerful?

1.) no - then why worship him?

2.) yes - then can he make a sandwich so large that he himself can't eat it?
    a.) yes - then there is a limit to God (his belly)
    b.) no - then there is a limit to his power
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6strings

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Existance of God
« Reply #71 on: August 16, 2006, 11:04:47 AM »
Feralkitten, for 2)
I believe that the traditional response to thi particular thought experiment is that God is not necessarily bound by our own conception of logic, so he can make a sandwich so large that he couldn't eat it, and then eat it in any case.
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Yourworstnightmare

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Existance of God
« Reply #72 on: August 16, 2006, 09:24:16 PM »
Yes, I belive in God. I have seen him answer my prayers (not exactly how I expected it and not right away, mind you) an I have seen him work in the lives of other people. Also, in Acts of the apsotles (the book after the gosples in the new testament) the number of Christians grew from about 20 to about 3,000 in less than a month. I figure that there must have been something to what they were saying that made people convert so quickly.
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CrimsonKing

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Existance of God
« Reply #73 on: August 16, 2006, 10:06:01 PM »
For the record... Roman Catholic


20 to 3000 though, simple.  Two monotheistic religions

1. Judism (sorry if it is spelt wrong) you have to wait for the messiah some few thousand years, you have no heaven or hell.

2.Christianity... Messiah is here, trust in him, you go to heaven, don't, you go to hell.


make a choice.
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dysfunction

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Existance of God
« Reply #74 on: August 17, 2006, 07:21:58 AM »
Quote from: "Yourworstnightmare"
Yes, I belive in God. I have seen him answer my prayers (not exactly how I expected it and not right away, mind you) an I have seen him work in the lives of other people. Also, in Acts of the apsotles (the book after the gosples in the new testament) the number of Christians grew from about 20 to about 3,000 in less than a month. I figure that there must have been something to what they were saying that made people convert so quickly.


You're using the Bible... to prove the Bible? Talk about circular reasoning.  :roll:
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Astantia

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Existance of God
« Reply #75 on: August 17, 2006, 08:06:30 AM »
Yea, you can't really do that.

Only problem is that now, legitimate historical sources that relate to the church are all being called into question.

Seems historical fact is only historical fact if an atheist wrote it, eh?
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dysfunction

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Existance of God
« Reply #76 on: August 17, 2006, 08:10:37 AM »
Pretty much, yeah.

 :wink:
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troubadour

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Existance of God
« Reply #77 on: August 17, 2006, 06:27:42 PM »
Quote from: "Aralith"
I most definitely believe in a God. There was a time when I didn't, but I was converted to the LDS church (Mormon in layman's terms) after merely investigating it for informational purposes. Not only does it make more sense to me than other forms of Christianity, but also there is no way that I can deny it. I felt, as missionaries would put it, a "burning in the bosom". This basically means that you feel a very strong, warm sensation in your chest. I felt this when I prayed about it. The Holy Ghost was telling me that it was true. I cannot deny this experience, thus I believe in God.


i think that burning in your chest is called heartburn. You need antacids, not religion. You believe a guy who put on a magic hat and claims that he was lead to a holy book made of gold in upstate new york by an angel while wearing this hat.

GO YOU.
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troubadour

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Existance of God
« Reply #78 on: August 17, 2006, 06:40:30 PM »
Quote from: "Feralkitten"
If there is a God is he all powerful?

1.) no - then why worship him?

2.) yes - then can he make a sandwich so large that he himself can't eat it?
    a.) yes - then there is a limit to God (his belly)
    b.) no - then there is a limit to his power



From what I have learned about physics and the realms of physical science, you find that there are no paradoxes. There have been plenty of times when issues in science seemed like a paradox, then turned out not to be. Most of these temporary scientific paradoxes arose from scientists taking traditional or conventional methods to explain new phenomona. Then someone comes along with new ideas and shows that infact, there is no paradox.

It seems the tired old believe that there is some onmipresent and all powerful being creates one such paradox. If one is all powerful, then how can one create something more powerful then one's self. Like "god" making a sandwich too big for himself to eat or whatever because he is all powerful and can do that. But if he does it, he is no longer all powerful since he cannot eat the sandwich. If one applies the rules of scientific thinking to this, you come to the conclusion that the existance of an all powerful god cannot exist. It's the equivalent of reaching an infinity in a mathmatical equation. The Infinity renders the equation meaningless at descibing the real world at that point.

This leaves 2 possiblities.

1. there is no god, no higher being that created everything.

2. there is a god(s) or some kind of higher being responsible for creation and other things. But this god(s) is infact NOT all powerful. As if it was it would create a paradox.
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dysfunction

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Existance of God
« Reply #79 on: August 17, 2006, 06:44:55 PM »
Quote from: "Mech Tau"
I believe in god. However, that is the thing: I believe. Belief is not based on facts. Belief is independant of facts. So, although many things might (seem to) confirm my belief of some sort of god (the presise nature of which I am too drunk to type about), nothing proves it. But hey, it makes me that much happier knowing/thinking/believing that I have some purpose in life.


So long as you admit your faith is not rationally based, there's nothing wrong with that. The problems comes when religious people start asserting that their personal God is true independent of their own belief and decide that other people must realize this "truth".
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Aralith

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Existance of God
« Reply #80 on: August 17, 2006, 11:13:31 PM »
Quote from: "troubadour"
Quote from: "Aralith"
I most definitely believe in a God. There was a time when I didn't, but I was converted to the LDS church (Mormon in layman's terms) after merely investigating it for informational purposes. Not only does it make more sense to me than other forms of Christianity, but also there is no way that I can deny it. I felt, as missionaries would put it, a "burning in the bosom". This basically means that you feel a very strong, warm sensation in your chest. I felt this when I prayed about it. The Holy Ghost was telling me that it was true. I cannot deny this experience, thus I believe in God.


i think that burning in your chest is called heartburn. You need antacids, not religion. You believe a guy who put on a magic hat and claims that he was lead to a holy book made of gold in upstate new york by an angel while wearing this hat.

GO YOU.

How tolerant of you. For your information, I have never experienced heartburn. Why would it start when I started praying to God? Anyways, to each his own. I'm not going to start insulting your beliefs just because they differ from mine, so I would ask that you not do it to me.

By the way, where did you hear this thing about a magic hat? I think that you've been listening to too many of the rumors that other sects of Christianity spread about us. Because we have scripture other than the Bible, they think that we are heathens, and I've heard everything from Mormons growing horns at midnight, to thinking that we can't eat spaghetti (and this person really thought we grew horns). So, please make sure you get your information straight, and I would ask you to be more tolerant of my beliefs. Thank you.
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Rick_James

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Existance of God
« Reply #81 on: August 17, 2006, 11:24:23 PM »
Quote from: "Aralith"
Quote from: "troubadour"
Quote from: "Aralith"
I most definitely believe in a God. There was a time when I didn't, but I was converted to the LDS church (Mormon in layman's terms) after merely investigating it for informational purposes. Not only does it make more sense to me than other forms of Christianity, but also there is no way that I can deny it. I felt, as missionaries would put it, a "burning in the bosom". This basically means that you feel a very strong, warm sensation in your chest. I felt this when I prayed about it. The Holy Ghost was telling me that it was true. I cannot deny this experience, thus I believe in God.


i think that burning in your chest is called heartburn. You need antacids, not religion. You believe a guy who put on a magic hat and claims that he was lead to a holy book made of gold in upstate new york by an angel while wearing this hat.

GO YOU.

How tolerant of you. For your information, I have never experienced heartburn. Why would it start when I started praying to God? Anyways, to each his own. I'm not going to start insulting your beliefs just because they differ from mine, so I would ask that you not do it to me.

By the way, where did you hear this thing about a magic hat? I think that you've been listening to too many of the rumors that other sects of Christianity spread about us. Because we have scripture other than the Bible, they think that we are heathens, and I've heard everything from Mormons growing horns at midnight, to thinking that we can't eat spaghetti (and this person really thought we grew horns). So, please make sure you get your information straight, and I would ask you to be more tolerant of my beliefs. Thank you.


How about your magic underpants??? I have a dvd of a guy who went to utah and bought some. What's the deal with that? and why did you ignore my last post re: Mormonism?
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troubadour

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Existance of God
« Reply #82 on: August 17, 2006, 11:48:14 PM »
Quote from: "Aralith"
Quote from: "troubadour"
Quote from: "Aralith"
I most definitely believe in a God. There was a time when I didn't, but I was converted to the LDS church (Mormon in layman's terms) after merely investigating it for informational purposes. Not only does it make more sense to me than other forms of Christianity, but also there is no way that I can deny it. I felt, as missionaries would put it, a "burning in the bosom". This basically means that you feel a very strong, warm sensation in your chest. I felt this when I prayed about it. The Holy Ghost was telling me that it was true. I cannot deny this experience, thus I believe in God.


i think that burning in your chest is called heartburn. You need antacids, not religion. You believe a guy who put on a magic hat and claims that he was lead to a holy book made of gold in upstate new york by an angel while wearing this hat.

GO YOU.

How tolerant of you. For your information, I have never experienced heartburn. Why would it start when I started praying to God? Anyways, to each his own. I'm not going to start insulting your beliefs just because they differ from mine, so I would ask that you not do it to me.

By the way, where did you hear this thing about a magic hat? I think that you've been listening to too many of the rumors that other sects of Christianity spread about us. Because we have scripture other than the Bible, they think that we are heathens, and I've heard everything from Mormons growing horns at midnight, to thinking that we can't eat spaghetti (and this person really thought we grew horns). So, please make sure you get your information straight, and I would ask you to be more tolerant of my beliefs. Thank you.


If I went around telling people that angels talked to me and showed me to a magic holy book that was some lost testament I would most likely end up in a mental hospital. The very fact that John Smith was able to get away with his cult was because people in general were much more gullible and less skeptical back then. Much like how "visions" and "feelings" were taken direly serious during the middle ages as some kind of interaction from god.

Just because I respect your right to practice your kooky religion, doesn't mean I don't think it's full of shit. Nor will I stop from telling you and everyone else it's a bunch of cooked up crap. This goes for christianity in general in my case, but I have a special place in my heart for your mormons. You exhibit a higher level of stupidity when it comes to your beliefs then other christians. Just because mormonism exists, does not make it worthy of some kind of tolerance in my eyes. And since I have to respect your right to walk around door to door trying to convert people, you have to respect my right to chew you out and slam the door right back in your face.
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Aralith

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Existance of God
« Reply #83 on: August 17, 2006, 11:51:31 PM »
I apologize Rick_James. It was not my intention to ignore your post. The Joseph Smith story is rather hard to believe. Especially the first time you hear it. But, for reasons I have already explained, I cannot ignore what I feel to be true. As for the other thing about the "Mormon" atheist, I have never heard of this, and did not know that would be the reaction. But, one problem with joining a religion is being clumped together.

The same way that FE'ers don't all believe the same thing, many Mormons feel differently about issue. Obviously not major ones, but we all choose to have our own beliefs about things such as other religions tracting in a similar fashion. It sounds to me like the biggest problem they had with this man was the fact that he was mocking us, rather than actually trying to show his religion to other people.

Though you can hardly call atheism a religion. One of the things I always found funny about atheists is how a lot of them (I won't say all, but most of the ones I've met fall into this category) will be all like, "We just want to be able to have our own beliefs and not be yelled at and antagonized by other religions," and then go out and antagonize and insult the religions they just asked to not do that to them. I know a lot of atheists like that. I obviously don't know every atheist, so I'm not going to say they all do. Heck, there's probably not even half of them that do that, just most the ones I know do.
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Aralith

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Existance of God
« Reply #84 on: August 17, 2006, 11:54:35 PM »
Quote from: "troubadour"
Quote from: "Aralith"
Quote from: "troubadour"
Quote from: "Aralith"
I most definitely believe in a God. There was a time when I didn't, but I was converted to the LDS church (Mormon in layman's terms) after merely investigating it for informational purposes. Not only does it make more sense to me than other forms of Christianity, but also there is no way that I can deny it. I felt, as missionaries would put it, a "burning in the bosom". This basically means that you feel a very strong, warm sensation in your chest. I felt this when I prayed about it. The Holy Ghost was telling me that it was true. I cannot deny this experience, thus I believe in God.


i think that burning in your chest is called heartburn. You need antacids, not religion. You believe a guy who put on a magic hat and claims that he was lead to a holy book made of gold in upstate new york by an angel while wearing this hat.

GO YOU.

How tolerant of you. For your information, I have never experienced heartburn. Why would it start when I started praying to God? Anyways, to each his own. I'm not going to start insulting your beliefs just because they differ from mine, so I would ask that you not do it to me.

By the way, where did you hear this thing about a magic hat? I think that you've been listening to too many of the rumors that other sects of Christianity spread about us. Because we have scripture other than the Bible, they think that we are heathens, and I've heard everything from Mormons growing horns at midnight, to thinking that we can't eat spaghetti (and this person really thought we grew horns). So, please make sure you get your information straight, and I would ask you to be more tolerant of my beliefs. Thank you.


If I went around telling people that angels talked to me and showed me to a magic holy book that was some lost testament I would most likely end up in a mental hospital. The very fact that John Smith was able to get away with his cult was because people in general were much more gullible and less skeptical back then. Much like how "visions" and "feelings" were taken direly serious during the middle ages as some kind of interaction from god.

Just because I respect your right to practice your kooky religion, doesn't mean I don't think it's full of shit. Nor will I stop from telling you and everyone else it's a bunch of cooked up crap. This goes for christianity in general in my case, but I have a special place in my heart for your mormons. You exhibit a higher level of stupidity when it comes to your beliefs then other christians. Just because mormonism exists, does not make it worthy of some kind of tolerance in my eyes. And since I have to respect your right to walk around door to door trying to convert people, you have to respect my right to chew you out and slam the door right back in your face.

Well, you could at least be a bit more polite about it. I mean, slamming doors is one thing, but sitting here and saying this to my face is completely different. I may disagree with your beliefs, but you don't see me telling you off like this. I'm not going to even try to tell you what to do, but I would ask that you show a bit more respect to at least me.
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Rick_James

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Existance of God
« Reply #85 on: August 18, 2006, 12:52:08 AM »
Quote from: "Aralith"
I apologize Rick_James. It was not my intention to ignore your post. The Joseph Smith story is rather hard to believe. Especially the first time you hear it. But, for reasons I have already explained, I cannot ignore what I feel to be true. As for the other thing about the "Mormon" atheist, I have never heard of this, and did not know that would be the reaction. But, one problem with joining a religion is being clumped together.

The same way that FE'ers don't all believe the same thing, many Mormons feel differently about issue. Obviously not major ones, but we all choose to have our own beliefs about things such as other religions tracting in a similar fashion. It sounds to me like the biggest problem they had with this man was the fact that he was mocking us, rather than actually trying to show his religion to other people.

Though you can hardly call atheism a religion. One of the things I always found funny about atheists is how a lot of them (I won't say all, but most of the ones I've met fall into this category) will be all like, "We just want to be able to have our own beliefs and not be yelled at and antagonized by other religions," and then go out and antagonize and insult the religions they just asked to not do that to them. I know a lot of atheists like that. I obviously don't know every atheist, so I'm not going to say they all do. Heck, there's probably not even half of them that do that, just most the ones I know do.


Yeah I admit it sounds a bit lame - and I'm sure the people who he harrassed didn't deserve it - it's just an amusing contrast to it being the Mormons knocking on the door. Another amusing aspect is that the guy is actually a non-practising Jew (In another segment he went to the US and tried to join the KKK, and didn't tell them he was Jewish until he was talking to the local grand-poobah in the flesh ROFL) so it was a strange and amusing situation all round.

I must admit my knowledge or Mormonism doesnt come from the most reliable sources (not limited to, but have you seen that South Park episode?), so I'm sure you can see why it seemed, if not far-fetched then, at least difficult to swallow. Of course I mean no offense in any way with all this, I'm only contributing to get a better understanding. :)

EDIT: any word on the special (note the change from "magic") underpants?
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Aralith

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Existance of God
« Reply #86 on: August 18, 2006, 01:14:02 AM »
Well, after Googling "Mormon underpants" (I was afraid of typing that in, for fear of what kind of sites might come up. You never know these days) I can say that I have never heard of such a thing, and I know not why it would be neccessary. As many of the sites pointed out, a piece of cloth is not going to stop someone from "touching themselves" if they really wanted to. I'm not sure if this is real or another one of those rumors, since I can't seem to find any official statement on the matter.
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Rick_James

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Existance of God
« Reply #87 on: August 18, 2006, 02:45:18 PM »
Here's a little something I found:



In those days [the 1970s] garments were one-piece, made of thick nylon, and cut like very loose teddies; they had a scoop neck and little cap sleeves and they came to the knee.  The amount of coverage wasn’t accidental: One of the purposes of “garments” is to make sure that Mormons eschew daring clothing.  The other is more directly theological: The underwear’s holy nature is expressed by small markings sewn into the cloth over each breast, the navel, and one knee.  (The markings signify comforting homilies like “deal squarely with your fellow men,” and are intended to serve as reminders of temple covenants.  The symbols themselves derive from the fact that Joseph Smith was a newly initiated and enthusiastic Freemason when he originated the Mormon temple rites in 1842, and so the Masonic compass and square appear on the left and right breasts of the Mormon garments.) The garments had one other characteristic that, if not actually biblical, did have something to do with creation: Women’s garments were slit in the crotch, very generously, so that they flapped open and left a girl’s greatest fascinations exposed.

DISCLAIMER: That's a random bit of text about it, not sure of the truth (if any) behind it. But it's pretty much along the lines of what I've heard. Another (possible misconception) I've heard is that they don't take them off, when bathing, one hand is held out of the water holding the underwear.

I await your reply  :)

EDIT: Try "mormon magic underpants" on google.
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Aralith

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Existance of God
« Reply #88 on: August 20, 2006, 11:18:17 AM »
Well, I must say, that is quite a bit of something I have never heard. Neither have any of my Mormon friends that I have asked about it. The next chance I get, I'll ask the missionaries of our church and see if they know anything about this, but I must say I have never heard of this, and it sounds a bit ridiculous. Especially that last bit about the slit in the women's crotch. If anything that would go against what the purpose of the underwear would be, right? From what I read, it seemed to be about being able to not touch oneself, so putting a slit in the crotch would destroy the point of the underwear. It sounds more like a hoax than anything to me, but I will ask someone more educated than myself in my church the next time I do (might be a while since I'm currently on vacation, but I will ask them).
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Rick_James

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Existance of God
« Reply #89 on: August 20, 2006, 04:18:49 PM »
Quote from: "Rick_James"

Yeah, I hadn't actually heard the bit about the crotch either - but I've definetly heard about the Freemason symbols and the bathing etc before. As I said, John Saffran went the the big LDS HQ in Utah to the gift shop and bought some.


Any word yet?
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