Poll

Does God exist?

Yes
46 (57.5%)
no
34 (42.5%)

Total Members Voted: 66

Voting closed: March 11, 2006, 09:45:19 PM

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Existance of God

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I are a believer

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Existance of God
« on: March 11, 2006, 09:45:19 PM »
Does god exist? If so explain. If you don't believe explain aswell.
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he Earth is flat, because if it wasnt then how do you explain the 1,000,000,000+ mile in circumference 125 foot tall ice barrier at the edge of the earth [which is round, but flat like a 2D circle]? and if 1+1=2 then the earth is flat.
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Silent Knight

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Existance of God
« Reply #1 on: March 12, 2006, 12:54:45 AM »
There is something, but I don't think we have the right concept in god, if you'll pardon the lower case.

Some people call it god, some people call it lifeforce. I don't have a name for it, but I don't think the traditional, Western name and concept of god is accurate.
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Erasmus

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Existance of God
« Reply #2 on: March 12, 2006, 01:52:53 AM »
I have a theory on the matter, which theory I dub "tribalistic theogeny".  I suggest that gods arose through the deification of tribal leaders or heros.

I believe that worship is a means of expressing allegiance -- if you and I worship the same god / pay tribute to the same chieftan / cheer for the same sports team / idolize the same celebrities, we are in some sense in the same "tribe".

Furthermore, gods often have the same personalities, goals, and desires as chieftans or heros -- monotheistic gods in the former case, polytheistic gods in the latter.  Gods typically demand some form of tribute and legislate some form of law.  They punish offenders and pass judgement on criminals.  Some of them lead or inspire their people in times of war, whereas some mostly lead lives of their own but occassionally mingle with lesser beings.

I'm currently very happy with this theory, as it provides a neat sociobiological explanation for deities.  From it, I conclude that all entities that are currently regarded as gods are not really gods, but rather the elevated memories of legendary people (who themselves may never have existed).  Thus I conclude that there is no god.

-Erasmus
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joffenz

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Existance of God
« Reply #3 on: March 12, 2006, 02:10:55 AM »
I don't believe in Santa, or the tooth fairy, and therefore I don't believe in God.

If I saw any piece of evidence that proved Gods existence, I would believe in him. Until then, I'm an unbeliever.
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Knight

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Existance of God
« Reply #4 on: March 12, 2006, 02:59:55 AM »
Quote
If I saw any piece of evidence that proved Gods existence, I would believe in him


For me, that happens with answered prayers on a level that seems to be too great to be random or brought about by any other way.  A sort of divine intervention (on a very low-key level).
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ooyakasha!
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I are a believer

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Existance of God
« Reply #5 on: March 12, 2006, 08:46:26 AM »
Quote from: "Knight"
Quote
If I saw any piece of evidence that proved Gods existence, I would believe in him


For me, that happens with answered prayers on a level that seems to be too great to be random or brought about by any other way.  A sort of divine intervention (on a very low-key level).


My prayers, from my long ago christian days never came true. Not on sny level. Unless you ask for the expected prayers do not usually come true. Also could some one enlighten me with a possible theory of how existance came to be? I know it's bassically impossible to answer that wihout saying "god", and "the big bang" only explains the creation of everything, but what caused the big bang? mayhaps a big crunch took place before our universe[like scientists are saying is happening now].
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he Earth is flat, because if it wasnt then how do you explain the 1,000,000,000+ mile in circumference 125 foot tall ice barrier at the edge of the earth [which is round, but flat like a 2D circle]? and if 1+1=2 then the earth is flat.
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Knight

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Existance of God
« Reply #6 on: March 12, 2006, 12:01:46 PM »
Quote
mayhaps a big crunch took place before our universe[like scientists are saying is happening now]


Scientists are saying it is happening now?  You are aware, aren't you, that the universe is expanding; and in order to be "crunching" right now it would have to be contracting.  Many scientists predict that it might happen, but not due to their observations that it's really happening.  Unless this just recently started happening and I never heard about it.
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ooyakasha!
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I are a believer

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Existance of God
« Reply #7 on: March 12, 2006, 12:37:39 PM »
Quote from: "Knight"
Quote
mayhaps a big crunch took place before our universe[like scientists are saying is happening now]


Scientists are saying it is happening now?  You are aware, aren't you, that the universe is expanding; and in order to be "crunching" right now it would have to be contracting.  Many scientists predict that it might happen, but not due to their observations that it's really happening.  Unless this just recently started happening and I never heard about it.


Well....Yeah I guess your right, but my point was that the big bang could have formed from a big crunch. but where did all this matter come from?
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he Earth is flat, because if it wasnt then how do you explain the 1,000,000,000+ mile in circumference 125 foot tall ice barrier at the edge of the earth [which is round, but flat like a 2D circle]? and if 1+1=2 then the earth is flat.
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logic!

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Existance of God
« Reply #8 on: March 12, 2006, 04:02:30 PM »
Where is the choice for "The very nature of a higher being precludes conclusive knowledge of such a being?"
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Silent Knight

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Existance of God
« Reply #9 on: March 12, 2006, 06:33:24 PM »
Do you mean 'The fact that we don't know whether or not there is a god, proves that there must be'?
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Erasmus

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Existance of God
« Reply #10 on: March 12, 2006, 08:58:20 PM »
Quote from: "Silent Knight"
Do you mean 'The fact that we don't know whether or not there is a god, proves that there must be'?


I'm pretty sure he does not mean that, but he may feel free to correct me.  I got the impression that he meant, "If there were a God, we wouldn't be able to prove it anyway."

I think it was the whole

Quote from: "logic!"
precludes conclusive knowledge


thing is what clued me in.

-Erasmus
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Silent Knight

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Existance of God
« Reply #11 on: March 12, 2006, 09:45:50 PM »
Thats what I thought, Erasmus.

Just having fun seeing how many directions it makes sense from.
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logic!

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Existance of God
« Reply #12 on: March 12, 2006, 09:47:03 PM »
Quote from: "Erasmus"
Quote from: "Silent Knight"
Do you mean 'The fact that we don't know whether or not there is a god, proves that there must be'?


I'm pretty sure he does not mean that, but he may feel free to correct me.  I got the impression that he meant, "If there were a God, we wouldn't be able to prove it anyway."

I think it was the whole

Quote from: "logic!"
precludes conclusive knowledge


thing is what clued me in.

-Erasmus

You hit the nail on the head.

I look at it this way:

Let's say someone (let's call him Pat) told an atheist (let's call him Jean-Paul) that God had revealed Himself to Pat. Now, something that would convince Pat and Jean-Paul of the existence of God would have to be pretty extraordinary, right?

Right.

And the thing is, something that to Pat indicates the existence of God could very easily indicate to Jean-Paul that Pat is having terrible hallucinations. In short, how do you prove that God revealing himself isn't something else?

Of course, it works the other way, too. Let's say that Jean-Paul tells Pat that he has conclusive evidence that God doesn't exist. Because God is, theoretically, an all-powerful being, Pat can easily say that God simply planted that evidence for Jean-Paul to find as part of His infinitely complex plan.

So this is why I'm an agnostic. I vote that I don't believe in God not because I feel that it's impossible for God to exist. Rather, it's because there isn't any particular reason to believe in God that doesn't also apply to, say, unicorns.
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Mech Tau

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Existance of God
« Reply #13 on: March 12, 2006, 11:40:07 PM »
I believe in god. However, that is the thing: I believe. Belief is not based on facts. Belief is independant of facts. So, although many things might (seem to) confirm my belief of some sort of god (the presise nature of which I am too drunk to type about), nothing proves it. But hey, it makes me that much happier knowing/thinking/believing that I have some purpose in life.
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arth is round.
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I are a believer

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Dino-problems
« Reply #14 on: March 13, 2006, 08:17:47 AM »
If [acoriding to Amdam and Eve] humans were on earth since the very beggining, the how do you explain the mesozoic era? Dinosaurs and humans did not live together, and that means they came BEFORE humans. Adam and eve must have came after. Which either means God failed with dinosaurs, or he isn't real. Maybe he just decided to make humans later because dinosaurs were boring to watch.
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he Earth is flat, because if it wasnt then how do you explain the 1,000,000,000+ mile in circumference 125 foot tall ice barrier at the edge of the earth [which is round, but flat like a 2D circle]? and if 1+1=2 then the earth is flat.
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joffenz

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Re: Dino-problems
« Reply #15 on: March 13, 2006, 08:49:54 AM »
Quote from: "I are a believer"
Which either means God failed with dinosaurs, or he isn't real. Maybe he just decided to make humans later because dinosaurs were boring to watch.


It's amazing how you can offer two explanations yet leave out one that involves God deliberately creating dinosaurs to appear to be much older than they are.
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Knight

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Existance of God
« Reply #16 on: March 13, 2006, 09:10:08 AM »
Quote
If [acoriding to Amdam and Eve] humans were on earth since the very beggining, the how do you explain the mesozoic era? Dinosaurs and humans did not live together, and that means they came BEFORE humans. Adam and eve must have came after. Which either means God failed with dinosaurs, or he isn't real. Maybe he just decided to make humans later because dinosaurs were boring to watch.


I'd say that you're failing to realize perhaps the most obvious (and to me, most correct) explanation.  Perhaps Genesis isn't 100% knowledgable.  Perhaps the dinosaurs came first but humans didn't know about them when they wrote Genesis.  Maybe the creation story was "created" by man.
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ooyakasha!
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I are a believer

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Existance of God
« Reply #17 on: March 13, 2006, 09:15:10 AM »
Quote from: "Knight"
Quote
If [acoriding to Amdam and Eve] humans were on earth since the very beggining, the how do you explain the mesozoic era? Dinosaurs and humans did not live together, and that means they came BEFORE humans. Adam and eve must have came after. Which either means God failed with dinosaurs, or he isn't real. Maybe he just decided to make humans later because dinosaurs were boring to watch.


I'd say that you're failing to realize perhaps the most obvious (and to me, most correct) explanation.  Perhaps Genesis isn't 100% knowledgable.  Perhaps the dinosaurs came first but humans didn't know about them when they wrote Genesis.  Maybe the creation story was "created" by man.


Well then the people who wrote the book of god make some errors. Therefor they werent very well led by god.
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he Earth is flat, because if it wasnt then how do you explain the 1,000,000,000+ mile in circumference 125 foot tall ice barrier at the edge of the earth [which is round, but flat like a 2D circle]? and if 1+1=2 then the earth is flat.
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Knight

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Existance of God
« Reply #18 on: March 13, 2006, 09:19:51 AM »
Quote
Well then the people who wrote the book of god make some errors. Therefor they werent very well led by god.


Nor did they need to be.
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joffenz

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Existance of God
« Reply #19 on: March 13, 2006, 10:22:42 AM »
That explanation does mean that the Bible is not the absolute truth.

So, if it's not completely true, how do you know what parts are true or not?
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Mech Tau

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Existance of God
« Reply #20 on: March 13, 2006, 01:21:56 PM »
Solution: Some parts are more allegory than others.
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arth is round.
Get over it.
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I are a believer

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Existance of God
« Reply #21 on: March 13, 2006, 03:31:15 PM »
Quote from: "cheesejoff"
That explanation does mean that the Bible is not the absolute truth.

So, if it's not completely true, how do you know what parts are true or not?


I do not believe God is real. I believe the bible was simply a guidline to life and better living and god represents the almighty judge who is forever watching and there for you in spirit no matter what. Not definately a real thing.
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he Earth is flat, because if it wasnt then how do you explain the 1,000,000,000+ mile in circumference 125 foot tall ice barrier at the edge of the earth [which is round, but flat like a 2D circle]? and if 1+1=2 then the earth is flat.
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Cinlef

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Existance of God
« Reply #22 on: March 13, 2006, 05:06:42 PM »
To clarify what your saying is God is not real but in fact a lie created by man?
(Which to avoid confusion and out of contxt quoting is definitly not my belief.)
A bemused
Cinlef
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Truth is great and will prevail-Thomas Jefferson

Quote from: Colonel Gaydafi on February 07, 2009, 03:54:06 AM
I've said it before and I'll say it again, Cinlef is the bestest!

Melior est sapientia quam vires-Wisdom
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logic!

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Existance of God
« Reply #23 on: March 13, 2006, 10:13:41 PM »
Quote from: "Mech Tau"
I believe in god. However, that is the thing: I believe. Belief is not based on facts. Belief is independant of facts. So, although many things might (seem to) confirm my belief of some sort of god (the presise nature of which I am too drunk to type about), nothing proves it. But hey, it makes me that much happier knowing/thinking/believing that I have some purpose in life.

So if beliefs are independent of facts, then is belief in unicorns and the yeti just as acceptable and rational as belief in God?
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6strings

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Existance of God
« Reply #24 on: March 14, 2006, 12:50:37 PM »
I think he meant "faith"...maybe...in which case he would mean to say that faith excludes facts/proof.  That's the only way I can see it making sense.
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Cinlef

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Existance of God
« Reply #25 on: March 15, 2006, 06:17:34 PM »
My point was that the whole purpose of faith is that it doesn't require facts. So faith is not rational. But neither does it claim to be. Thus proving the existence of God is not nessecary for having faith in God.
An explanatory (hopefully)
Cinlef
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Truth is great and will prevail-Thomas Jefferson

Quote from: Colonel Gaydafi on February 07, 2009, 03:54:06 AM
I've said it before and I'll say it again, Cinlef is the bestest!

Melior est sapientia quam vires-Wisdom
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logic!

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Existance of God
« Reply #26 on: March 15, 2006, 09:38:01 PM »
Quote from: "Cinlef"
My point was that the whole purpose of faith is that it doesn't require facts. So faith is not rational. But neither does it claim to be. Thus proving the existence of God is not nessecary for having faith in God.
An explanatory (hopefully)
Cinlef

I understand this, but choosing to believe in God as opposed to the various things you don't believe in seems purely arbitrary.
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Mech Tau

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Existance of God
« Reply #27 on: March 15, 2006, 10:17:30 PM »
Exactly. Going solely on facts that are beyond doubt, belief in unicorns is just as reasonable as belief in god.

My faith takes things that some people question (The Bible), and lets me make a leap of faith (That they are true) and I admit it is factually indefensible, even though I think it is true.
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arth is round.
Get over it.
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I are a believer

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Existance of God
« Reply #28 on: March 16, 2006, 07:38:19 PM »
Quote from: "Cinlef"
To clarify what your saying is God is not real but in fact a lie created by man?
(Which to avoid confusion and out of contxt quoting is definitly not my belief.)
A bemused
Cinlef


Yes, I believe man, back in those ages was short of hope. They feared death and figured that something had to have created the earth. Hence the theory of God was created. Nothing to back it up. But I believe The Bible is a guidline more then a book of believing.
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he Earth is flat, because if it wasnt then how do you explain the 1,000,000,000+ mile in circumference 125 foot tall ice barrier at the edge of the earth [which is round, but flat like a 2D circle]? and if 1+1=2 then the earth is flat.
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Knight

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Existance of God
« Reply #29 on: March 17, 2006, 09:28:58 AM »
Quote
belief in unicorns is just as reasonable as belief in god


Uhhh not exactly.  Unless the unicorns are "spiritual" creatures that don't inhabit this planet.  But if you're considering unicorns an actual creatures on earth then I wouldn't consider it as reasonable as a belief in God.
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