Poll

Does God exist?

Yes
46 (57.5%)
no
34 (42.5%)

Total Members Voted: 66

Voting closed: March 11, 2006, 09:45:19 PM

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Existance of God

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logic!

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Existance of God
« Reply #30 on: March 20, 2006, 08:24:14 PM »
Quote from: "Knight"
Quote
belief in unicorns is just as reasonable as belief in god


Uhhh not exactly.  Unless the unicorns are "spiritual" creatures that don't inhabit this planet.  But if you're considering unicorns an actual creatures on earth then I wouldn't consider it as reasonable as a belief in God.

Why not? There is evidence for neither, and the existence of a horse with a horn actually seems far more probable than the existence of an omnipotent being.
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Knight

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Existance of God
« Reply #31 on: March 21, 2006, 10:39:46 AM »
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Why not? There is evidence for neither, and the existence of a horse with a horn actually seems far more probable than the existence of an omnipotent being.


Because a unicorn would be a creature that inhabits the earth and would be much easier to "discover" right?  Don't you think it's easier to conclude that a certain species of bird exists than it is to conclude that God exists?
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joffenz

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Existance of God
« Reply #32 on: March 21, 2006, 11:23:33 AM »
Quote from: "Knight"
Because a unicorn would be a creature that inhabits the earth and would be much easier to "discover" right?  Don't you think it's easier to conclude that a certain species of bird exists than it is to conclude that God exists?


Except that it's a mythical creature, so it could have magical powers of some sort. Besides, there are places in the world where scientists disocover hundreds of new species every day. It could be very rare and live in an uninhabited area.
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Cinlef

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Existance of God
« Reply #33 on: March 21, 2006, 03:23:27 PM »
I believe the point bieng made was that while it is a present impossible to prove or disprove the existence of God it is at least in theory possible to scour the entire Earth for unicorns
An diverted
Cinlef
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Truth is great and will prevail-Thomas Jefferson

Quote from: Colonel Gaydafi on February 07, 2009, 03:54:06 AM
I've said it before and I'll say it again, Cinlef is the bestest!

Melior est sapientia quam vires-Wisdom
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Erasmus

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Existance of God
« Reply #34 on: March 21, 2006, 08:48:26 PM »
Quote from: "cheesejoff"
Except that it's a mythical creature, so it could have magical powers of some sort. Besides, there are places in the world where scientists disocover hundreds of new species every day. It could be very rare and live in an uninhabited area.


Notice that you've done something here for unicorns that you cannot do for God.  You haven't proven/refuted their existence, but you've made a cogent argument about some property of the world's population of unicorns.

We can probably draw lots of predictive conclusions about unicorns, all of which would be in principle falsifiable, and which do not contradict our existing understanding about the universe.  For example, we can conclude that there are no unicorns living above ground in Manhattan.  This is a statement about the population distribution of unicorns.  Next, we can hypothesize that they're as physiologically similar to horses as they are morphologically, and that they therefore fill the same niche in their ecosystem: they eat similar things, and get hunted by similar things.  They probably run in packs, just as wild horses do.  They probably have skeletons that get left behind when the rest of the animal dies and decays.

We cannot make similar statements about God; we're simply not allowed to.

-Erasmus
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arp

Existance of God
« Reply #35 on: March 22, 2006, 07:22:17 AM »
I was once agnostic but after learning of Jean-Paul Sartre in philosophy class I took on the role of an atheist. I'm not sure if any of you have followed any of Sartre's views on existentialism, but according to Sartre God doesn’t exist. And since there is no God there can be no external values and no given human nature which human beings are obliged to fulfill. Therefore man is responsible for everything that he does with no outside aid or support. He is completely helpless. If there were a God, our values and beliefs would be pre-determined rather then up to us to make them. I'm probably going to get ridiculed for this remark but that's just my 2 cents.
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arp

Existance of God
« Reply #36 on: March 22, 2006, 07:24:13 AM »
Plus it is alot easier to live your life knowing that there is nothing up above you watching what you do.
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Erasmus

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Existance of God
« Reply #37 on: March 22, 2006, 02:03:57 PM »
Quote from: "arp"
I was once agnostic but after learning of Jean-Paul Sartre in philosophy class I took on the role of an atheist. I'm not sure if any of you have followed any of Sartre's views on existentialism, but according to Sartre God doesn’t exist. And since there is no God there can be no external values and no given human nature which human beings are obliged to fulfill. Therefore man is responsible for everything that he does with no outside aid or support. He is completely helpless. If there were a God, our values and beliefs would be pre-determined rather then up to us to make them. I'm probably going to get ridiculed for this remark but that's just my 2 cents.


Well, that's interesting, but the arguments for/against God's existence are germane that the consequences of his existence (that's the topic for another thread).

Maybe you could give us a brief (brief) intro to Sartre's argument....
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arp

Existance of God
« Reply #38 on: March 22, 2006, 03:29:56 PM »
To quote from "Existentialism and Humanism," one of Sartre's many writings,  which best explains his overall point.
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Atheistic existentialism, of which I am a representative, declares with greater consistency that if God does not exist there is at least one being whose existence comes before its essence, a being which exists before it can be defined by any conception of it. That being is man or, as Heidegger has it, the human reality. What do we mean by saying that existence precedes essence? We mean that man first of all exists, encounters himself, surges up in the world--and defines himself afterwards. If man as the existentialist sees him is not definable, it is because to begin with he is nothing. He will not be anything until later, and then he will be what he makes of himself. Thus, there is no human nature, because there is no God to have a conception of it. Man simply is. Not that he is simply what he conceives himself to be, but he is what he wills, and as he conceives himself after already existing--as he wills to be after that leap towards existence. Man is nothing else but that which he makes of himself. That is the first principle of existentialism.

http://www.cis.vt.edu/modernworld/d/Sartre.html
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Yourworstnightmare

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Existance of God
« Reply #39 on: May 01, 2006, 09:40:30 PM »
You can't actually prove to other people that God exists, but I just get a feeling when I pray that makes me sure that someone is listneing.

My God also never said the earth is flat.
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size=18] I'm Hungry[/size]
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Golden Zealot

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Existance of God
« Reply #40 on: June 12, 2006, 07:22:40 AM »
I define existing as affecting the world. The idea of God certainly does this and that cannot be denied. Therefore, at least as a powerful idea, God exists
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Yardstick2006

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Existance of God
« Reply #41 on: June 12, 2006, 08:20:20 AM »
I think A god exists. Just not the one in the Bible.
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quote="Dogplatter"]
Penguins were actually created in the 1960's by Russian scientists who combined the DNA of otters and birds.  [/quote]


LOL
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UNCLE JIM BOB

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Existance of God
« Reply #42 on: June 13, 2006, 12:36:31 AM »
Quote from: "cheesejoff"
I don't believe in Santa, or the tooth fairy, and therefore I don't believe in God.

If I saw any piece of evidence that proved Gods existence, I would believe in him. Until then, I'm an unbeliever.

Believing in God is much the same as beleiving in the big bang or some other 'Creation' theory. The difference is a belief in God is usually differentiated because it is a belief in a 'Creator', and a completely viable creation theory. Belief in the christian god, or his existence is not falsifiable.
-ujb.
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troubadour

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Existance of God
« Reply #43 on: June 13, 2006, 01:13:50 AM »
Quote from: "Erasmus"
I have a theory on the matter, which theory I dub "tribalistic theogeny".  I suggest that gods arose through the deification of tribal leaders or heros.

I believe that worship is a means of expressing allegiance -- if you and I worship the same god / pay tribute to the same chieftan / cheer for the same sports team / idolize the same celebrities, we are in some sense in the same "tribe".

Furthermore, gods often have the same personalities, goals, and desires as chieftans or heros -- monotheistic gods in the former case, polytheistic gods in the latter.  Gods typically demand some form of tribute and legislate some form of law.  They punish offenders and pass judgement on criminals.  Some of them lead or inspire their people in times of war, whereas some mostly lead lives of their own but occassionally mingle with lesser beings.

I'm currently very happy with this theory, as it provides a neat sociobiological explanation for deities.  From it, I conclude that all entities that are currently regarded as gods are not really gods, but rather the elevated memories of legendary people (who themselves may never have existed).  Thus I conclude that there is no god.

-Erasmus



I couldn't of put it better myself. LOL @ the story of Jesus the Godman.
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n00bac00astaIb00sta

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Existance of God
« Reply #44 on: June 22, 2006, 08:45:23 AM »
I believe in God and I also believe the people who say "seeing is believing", fall into the category of ignorancy. Do you see the wind? No. Have you seen history? No. Have you literally seen radio waves? No. You can obviously feel the presence of such things such as you do when you believe in God.

God answers every prayer, but sometimes that answer is just "no". So you can't attribute a denial in God's existence because of prayers unanswered....
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Erasmus

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Existance of God
« Reply #45 on: June 22, 2006, 09:10:53 AM »
Quote from: "n00bac00astaIb00sta"
I believe in God and I also believe the people who say "seeing is believing", fall into the category of ignorancy.


I'm not sure anybody has really said that so far in this thread.

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Have you literally seen radio waves? No.


Actually, you can see them.  You just have to travel very quickly towards something that's emitting them.  Eventually the emitting object will appear red.[/quote]

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You can obviously feel the presence of such things such as you do when you believe in God.


It's easy to believe in wind despite it not being a visible thing, since it has observable effects that can, almost by definition, only be attributed to it.

It's easy to believe in history since, again, we just defined it to be a certain thing that is meaningful to us.

How can you obviously feel the presence of God?  How can you feel it in such a way as to be even slightly unambiguous, i.e., so that you can say, "Well, I could attribute this observation to something other than God, but it seems that attributing it to God is at least a little bit more probable."

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God answers every prayer, but sometimes that answer is just "no". So you can't attribute a denial in God's existence because of prayers unanswered....

True, even if it's just an argument of convenience.  You've reduced God to the dragon in my garage -- there's an easy way to observe it (go into the garage / pray to God) but there's no guarantee that it'll be there when you go.
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joffenz

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Existance of God
« Reply #46 on: June 22, 2006, 11:02:35 AM »
Quote from: "Erasmus"
True, even if it's just an argument of convenience.  You've reduced God to the dragon in my garage -- there's an easy way to observe it (go into the garage / pray to God) but there's no guarantee that it'll be there when you go.


There is a difference between the dragon and God, which is that no one claims to have seen a dragon in your basement and the dragon does not explain anything.

However many people claim to have experience some form of deity and it explains various problems that puzzle just aout everyone (where we came from, the meaning of life, etc)

Of course now science can explain just about everything attributed to God, whereas in the past people couldn't explain things so they used God as their explanation.
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googleSearch

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Existance of God
« Reply #47 on: June 22, 2006, 11:13:51 AM »
You can feel presence of God during prayer.

If you don't believe in God how do you explain countless cases of terminal cancers being cured, or just disappearing for no reason? Doctors giving patients deadly diagnose, and patients miraculously survive and cancer disappears without a trace.

Just 2 weeks ago I heard a story from a guy who lost ability to speak after a stroke. In his dream an angel gave him specific day and time when he will speak again up to the minute. And guess what, he spoke at exactly that time! How do you explain that with you science?
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Knight

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Existance of God
« Reply #48 on: June 22, 2006, 11:30:07 AM »
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If you don't believe in God how do you explain countless cases of terminal cancers being cured, or just disappearing for no reason? Doctors giving patients deadly diagnose, and patients miraculously survive and cancer disappears without a trace.


Medical miracles.  I agree that it could be the work of God, but you can't really prove that.  I read something about a study a few months ago where people going in for a surgery (or something to that effect) were split into two groups: (1) Prayed for group; (2) Not prayed for group.  Turned out that group two fared a little better.  I think the Bible says that whatever you ask of God will be granted (provided that you're a true Christian).  So how come group one wasn't 100%?
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ooyakasha!
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DrQuak

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Existance of God
« Reply #49 on: June 22, 2006, 05:09:38 PM »
ahh makes me think of the simpsons.


"Please lord let everything remain exactly the way it is, if this is your will give me absolutely no sign"

" As a token of my thanks i offer you these millk and cookies, if you wish me to eat these milk and cookies give me absolutely no sign."

"Thy will be done"
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Evil Ed

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Existance of God
« Reply #50 on: June 23, 2006, 05:41:22 AM »
I dont believe in god as i'm not even Christian. I'm a viking. prooving God's existence is very hard if you base it on the "Seeing is believing" term. I'd say God is kinda like air. You cant see him but you know he's there. Same thing with ghosts and nature's spirit.

Just my 2 krowns.
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img]http://i62.photobucket.com/albums/h108/Evil_Ed88/Edsiggy.png[/img]
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troubadour

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Existance of God
« Reply #51 on: June 24, 2006, 04:17:07 AM »
Quote from: "n00bac00astaIb00sta"
I believe in God and I also believe the people who say "seeing is believing", fall into the category of ignorancy. Do you see the wind? No. Have you seen history? No. Have you literally seen radio waves? No. You can obviously feel the presence of such things such as you do when you believe in God.

God answers every prayer, but sometimes that answer is just "no". So you can't attribute a denial in God's existence because of prayers unanswered....


Radio waves and wind can be observed and detected through instruments. feelings and emotions that are produced in your brain by chemical reactions with your biological nervous system are attributed to god by those that want to give some higher meaning or purpose to what has proved to be so far a pretty pointless existance. I'm not praying to any god. If there is a god, then he is obviously not interested in proving he exists and seems to want it that way. perhaps seeing for a laugh what crazy and illogical things people will do in his name haha. He knows where to find me if he needs me. otherwise i'll keep going along chuckling at those such as yourself that make up gods and religions for yourselves to try to give your futile and insignificant lives purpose.

 (why you need a omnipresent and all-powerful being to give yourself purpose is beyond me)
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Erasmus

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Existance of God
« Reply #52 on: June 24, 2006, 11:41:37 AM »
Quote from: "googleSearch"
You can feel presence of God during prayer.


I have prayed, in my lifetime, and not felt any different from when I wasn't praying.

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If you don't believe in God how do you explain countless cases of terminal cancers being cured, or just disappearing for no reason? Doctors giving patients deadly diagnose, and patients miraculously survive and cancer disappears without a trace.


"There's no explanation for it, so it must be the work of the gods" is, I think, a fairly antiquated line of reasoning.

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Just 2 weeks ago I heard a story from a guy who lost ability to speak after a stroke. In his dream an angel gave him specific day and time when he will speak again up to the minute. And guess what, he spoke at exactly that time! How do you explain that with you science?


For every person who had some sort of premonitory experience that receives notoriety, there are thousands of people who did not have visions and went unnoticed.  These mystical events occur rarely enough that they can be disregarded as coincidences -- however unlikely the coincidences are, they're bound to happen once in a while.

In this particular case, I have no reason to believe that the person's story is true.  I'm not claiming he's making it up; however, it's very, very common for the brain to make false memories.  It happens to me with some regularity.  A person who already has religious leanings is more likely to invent (entirely without the intention to do so) religiously charged false memories.

In addition, it's worth noting that this guy has suffered brain damage.  Do we really want to take every experience of his as complete truth?  The probability that he has had hallucinations is pretty good.  And lastly, some forms of brain damage -- especially legions in the temporal love -- actually cause religious visions and feelings of being touched by God or angels.

Of course, that's not evidence that they're not touched by angels.  However, before you suggest that God reveals himself to people through epilepsy, or remind me that the Bible states that no man can look upon the face of God and live (so maybe those few who do live merely suffer brain damage, hence the correlation), I'd also like to mention that there's a device that causes people to have these visions, is non-invasive, and has no long-term side effects.  Is it reasonable to suggest that God is being forced to reveal himself to people on whom this device is used?

So while there might not be a scientific explanation for spontaneous remission, there is an explanation for why you hear about them, and there's an explanation for religious visions.
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Testing

Existance of God
« Reply #53 on: June 24, 2006, 11:59:41 PM »
hi im new :),anyway
   
  let me put it like this i would rather live my life illusioned by the existance of a god,and then when i die:
  case1) a god actually exists and i will be very satisfied with my believing
  case2) there is no god,so no consciousness after life so i dont fell anything
 
   if u dont believe in god there are other 2 cases
  1) a god actually exists and u get pwned
  2) same with case2) from believeing
   
   now the most efficien thing would be believing anyway,without any proof.
 
  by not believeing u can fail through case 1
  there is no rate of failing with believeing since WORST CASE SCENARIO nothing happens...
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Xargo

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Existance of God
« Reply #54 on: June 25, 2006, 03:44:16 AM »
It doesn't matter if God exists. Really. We can be happy without being religious, and what else matters?

Btw, for religious people reading this post, God would see no sense in hurting people = he would see no sense of punishing them. Saying that there exist a hell is the same thing as lowering God. No parent would ever punish their childrens with eternal damnation. Especially not God..

That said, I say I believe in God.
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quot;Earth is flat because there is a conspiracy, and there is a conspiracy because the Earth is flat" - Makes sense, duh.

http://theflatearthsociety.org/forum/index.php?topic=2955.0
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IBeleveScience

Existance of God
« Reply #55 on: June 25, 2006, 06:18:18 AM »
there might be some higher being, but i doubt his name is god, and that he has a son jesus, witch was born in bethlehem etc. so no there is no God
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Erasmus

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Existance of God
« Reply #56 on: June 25, 2006, 09:13:58 AM »
Quote from: "Testing"
let me put it like this i would rather live my life illusioned by the existance of a god,and then when i die:


Pascal's wager?  Okay, not bad, except that it's fairly antihumanistic, in that it's based on fear of what God might be like and resignation to his tyranny.

I have a wager of my own:

I'll strive to be a good, moral person, and to improve myself and the world around me using the talents that maybe God gave me or maybe were basically random.

1)  If there's a God, and that's what he wants from me, perfect -- we'll be great friends.

2)  If there's a God, and all he really wants is subjugation, then we ought to rebel against him.

3)  If there's no God, then at least I've improved myself and the world around me, and been a good and moral person.
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Why did the chicken cross the Möbius strip?
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Testing

Existance of God
« Reply #57 on: June 25, 2006, 12:13:49 PM »
Good thinking Erasmus religion it;s not a form of slavery per say,but a means to improve urself as a person ,dont know what pascal's wager is by the way...
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Erasmus

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Existance of God
« Reply #58 on: June 25, 2006, 12:17:25 PM »
Quote from: "Testing"
Good thinking Erasmus religion it;s not a form of slavery per say,but a means to improve urself as a person ,dont know what pascal's wager is by the way...


Pascal's wager is:

Quote from: "Testing and also Pascal"
let me put it like this i would rather live my life illusioned by the existance of a god,and then when i die:
case1) a god actually exists and i will be very satisfied with my believing
case2) there is no god,so no consciousness after life so i dont fell anything

if u dont believe in god there are other 2 cases
1) a god actually exists and u get pwned
2) same with case2) from believeing
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joffenz

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Existance of God
« Reply #59 on: June 25, 2006, 12:18:59 PM »
Quote from: "Erasmus"
Quote from: "Testing"
let me put it like this i would rather live my life illusioned by the existance of a god,and then when i die:


Pascal's wager?  Okay, not bad, except that it's fairly antihumanistic, in that it's based on fear of what God might be like and resignation to his tyranny.


I think Pascal's wager works not only for God but for Santa Claus too.

If you believe in Santa, you get a Christmas present.

If you don't, you lose nothing.
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