Financial reasons behind the conspiracy questionable

The common belief amongst FEers is that the government keeps the conspiracy alive because of 'NASAs millions' but I have doubts about that simply because it's an absurd way of generating income. Firstly do you have any idea of the cost of funding this operation initially? It would be years before anyone saw any money rolling in. Ok, you say, it was a future investment.

For whom exactly? Most of NASA's funding is government, so they would effectively be paying themselves...and taking out a portion of that money in the process. Also, some of NASAs purchases would hardly be declared economical. While there's little truth to the claim that they spent millions devising a pen to work in space when the Russians used pencils, they did pay inordinate sums for early mechanical pencils according to http://www.sciam.com/article.cfm?chanID=sa026&articleID=9CF01C5C-E7F2-99DF-3EEFFCD06138AEC4 they paid $4,382.50 or $128.89 per pencil which they have the invoices for. Why spend that much on pencils if this were a money-making venture?

Also, remember it's not just NASA here, the russians, Europeans and (I think) China have their own space agencies.

Come on, FEers, lets have a more conceivable reason for a 'conspiracy', please

 

The conspiracy embezzles the billions of dollars that NASA receives yearly, then produces a bunch of edited photographs of space and the (round) earth.

EDIT: Why is this in "Religion and Philosophy" anyway?

I must say, I don't really think they spend so much money on pens/pencils.  I'm fairly sure that it is planned such that it is going into someone's pocket.  Government crooks...

I don't think that the United States Government has enough neurons between all of them put together to pull that off.

The Conspiracy must remain unreasonably absurd.  Otherwise, people might start taking it seriously, and the Conspiracy does not want that.

Correction: NASA does not have millions. They have billions. Every year. And that's just NASA, not including China nor Russia's space organizations. The government is "paying themselves" in a way, yes, but where do the funds come from? Taxes. Basically, they're collecting taxes from people, and paying themselves with the taxes in an inconspicuous way (or at least so that nobody knows that they're greedy bastards).

~D-Draw

*hits head against wall*

Look, where do the freaking rockets they send up go?

They can take people's taxes without inventing an elaborate 'space program'

Why isn't space travel possible? I know I've asked it before, but fi the UA affects everything (which it must do to keep the sun/moon up) then surely it would affect the rocket as well? Eventually things in space DO come crashing back down to Earth.

I was using pencils as an example, but the amount it would cost to have this digital picture factory going and the billions it costs to run it is going to eat heavily into any 'profits'. I use this analogy, it's like having £20 or dollars in your right pocket,taking £20 out of your pocket, dropping £18 of that down the drain and being left with £2 in your other pocket. It dannae make sense, lad!

Why is this in religion/philosphy? Because belief in the conspiracy is having absolute faith in something non provable and using it to explain the world around you. Sound like religion to you?

*hits head against wall*

Look, where do the freaking rockets they send up go?

Away, and then they come back down.

They can take people's taxes without inventing an elaborate 'space program'

Not without public outrage.

Why isn't space travel possible? I know I've asked it before, but fi the UA affects everything (which it must do to keep the sun/moon up) then surely it would affect the rocket as well? Eventually things in space DO come crashing back down to Earth.

Surely you don't think that it's possible for a ship to carry enough fuel to be constantly accelerating INDEFINITELY, do you?

I was using pencils as an example, but the amount it would cost to have this digital picture factory going and the billions it costs to run it is going to eat heavily into any 'profits'. I use this analogy, it's like having £20 or dollars in your right pocket,taking £20 out of your pocket, dropping £18 of that down the drain and being left with £2 in your other pocket. It dannae make sense, lad!

Okay, then. 16.8 billion dollars. You drop 15 billion. What do you have? 2 BILLION FREAKING DOLLARS. And that's just NASA, and that's an exaggerated example. Getting the picture?

~D-Draw

<Away, and then they come back down.>

fair enough, succint and without resorting to something like the 9th dimension

<Not without public outrage.>

Why not? Gordon announced something like a billion pound budget 'black hole' and hes gonna be PM. Yes there was public anger but that died off quickly, a billion pounds profit over a few months without expensive and ludicrous space program

<Surely you don't think that it's possible for a ship to carry enough fuel to be constantly accelerating INDEFINITELY, do you?>

No, and it doesn't need to if the UA pushes on the rocket as well, besides things dont stay up indefinately, satelites and stuff 'fall out of orbit' and crash back to Earth theres a point, how do explain something shot up in the air 10 years ago crashing back to earth?

<Okay, then. 16.8 billion dollars. You drop 15 billion. What do you have? 2 BILLION FREAKING DOLLARS. And that's just NASA, and that's an exaggerated example. Getting the picture?>

To a government of the Western world that's a fairly small figure and it would have been decades before anyone started seeing any money coming in from NASA, by which time a totally new government is in place. The people who set it up get squat, explain the logic there. Plus I wasn't arguing that there was no profit I'm saying they could have kept the 16.8 billion and spread it out over different existing departments and regions, they keep closer to 14 billion of the cash, albeit in more places

<Not without public outrage.>

Why not? Gordon announced something like a billion pound budget 'black hole' and hes gonna be PM. Yes there was public anger but that died off quickly, a billion pounds profit over a few months without expensive and ludicrous space program

Think: A few government officials TAKING TAX MONEY for themselves, and buying with it luxury and nothing else.

<Surely you don't think that it's possible for a ship to carry enough fuel to be constantly accelerating INDEFINITELY, do you?>

No, and it doesn't need to if the UA pushes on the rocket as well, besides things dont stay up indefinately, satelites and stuff 'fall out of orbit' and crash back to Earth theres a point, how do explain something shot up in the air 10 years ago crashing back to earth?

Well, obviously the UA won't push the rocket up as well, because otherwise we wouldn't be on the Earth anymore, would we?

<Okay, then. 16.8 billion dollars. You drop 15 billion. What do you have? 2 BILLION FREAKING DOLLARS. And that's just NASA, and that's an exaggerated example. Getting the picture?>

To a government of the Western world that's a fairly small figure and it would have been decades before anyone started seeing any money coming in from NASA, by which time a totally new government is in place. The people who set it up get squat, explain the logic there. Plus I wasn't arguing that there was no profit I'm saying they could have kept the 16.8 billion and spread it out over different existing departments and regions, they keep closer to 14 billion of the cash, albeit in more places

This is PER YEAR. And as I said, this is an exaggerated example. Considering the richest person in the world right now has, what ten or twelve billion dollars in investments? I'd say that's pretty fucking amazing.

~D-Draw

Correction: NASA does not have millions. They have billions. Every year. And that's just NASA, not including China nor Russia's space organizations. The government is "paying themselves" in a way, yes, but where do the funds come from? Taxes. Basically, they're collecting taxes from people, and paying themselves with the taxes in an inconspicuous way (or at least so that nobody knows that they're greedy bastards).

~D-Draw

I would love to see the paper trail on that D.

Think: A few government officials TAKING TAX MONEY for themselves, and buying with it luxury and nothing else.

THINK: Heaps of money go 'missing' every year in the budgets anyway and how would anyone be able to embezzle this stupendous amount of money without it reaching the public eye anyway? the story comes out that instead of takinjg taxpayers money directly, he's pocketing NASAs money

Well, obviously the UA won't push the rocket up as well, because otherwise we wouldn't be on the Earth anymore, would we?

And you wonder why the UA is bullshizzle? it selectively picks what things to accelerate and what bits not to...

This is PER YEAR. And as I said, this is an exaggerated example. Considering the richest person in the world right now has, what ten or twelve billion dollars in investments? I'd say that's pretty fucking amazing.

but this money wouldn't go to one person, would it? THINK: The government is not one man sitting there throwing money at things, everyone involved in keeping the secret would want a slice, all the people who keep  it running would, all the people who are paid to keep the transactions 'on the low' the banks and the like. Unless you picture George W sitting there with a biiiig bag of unmarked dollar bills in the oval office hidden behind a pot-plant or something because he's afraid to put it in the banks...

EDIT: Well said, midnight

Quote from: DiegoDraw on May 01, 2007, 12:46:10 PM

Correction: NASA does not have millions. They have billions. Every year. And that's just NASA, not including China nor Russia's space organizations. The government is "paying themselves" in a way, yes, but where do the funds come from? Taxes. Basically, they're collecting taxes from people, and paying themselves with the taxes in an inconspicuous way (or at least so that nobody knows that they're greedy bastards).

~D-Draw

I would love to see the paper trail on that D.

Paper trails from a conspiracy? You'd think they'd have that handled by now.

THINK: Heaps of money go 'missing' every year in the budgets anyway and how would anyone be able to embezzle this stupendous amount of money without it reaching the public eye anyway? the story comes out that instead of takinjg taxpayers money directly, he's pocketing NASAs money

The checks go to the space exploration industry. The money isn't "going missing," it's "going to space exploration." The conspirators are just lying about, for example, how much space exploration costs, etcetera.

And you wonder why the UA is bullshizzle? it selectively picks what things to accelerate and what bits not to...

Or it's just that the UA doesn't travel through huge chunks of matter, and the Earth is a huge chunk of matter.

but this money wouldn't go to one person, would it? THINK: The government is not one man sitting there throwing money at things, everyone involved in keeping the secret would want a slice, all the people who keep  it running would, all the people who are paid to keep the transactions 'on the low' the banks and the like. Unless you picture George W sitting there with a biiiig bag of unmarked dollar bills in the oval office hidden behind a pot-plant or something because he's afraid to put it in the banks...

Of course it wouldn't go to one person, but you should read my Conspiracy Compendium (I'm too much of an ass to link it directly--it's linked to in the FAQ). It shouldn't take that many people. And keep in mind, the "two million dollars" was really exaggerated. I would estimate that NASA alone should keep for the conspiracy something like eight to ten million dollars--probably more.

~D-Draw

<The checks go to the space exploration industry. The money isn't "going missing," it's "going to space exploration." The conspirators are just lying about, for example, how much space exploration costs, etcetera.>

What about all the external auditors? The check every damned piece of paper ever printed to keep track of finances. But of course, they're the conspiracy too. so again we have degenerated to saying 'conspiracy' at everything so i'll drop this point

<Or it's just that the UA doesn't travel through huge chunks of matter, and the Earth is a huge chunk of matter.>

Yeah i realised that at about the same time the Sun dropped on my head because it had no UA to keep it relative above the Earth eejit

Paper trails from a conspiracy? You'd think they'd have that handled by now.

You know damn well what I meant. 

And you wonder why the UA is bullshizzle? it selectively picks what things to accelerate and what bits not to...

Yeah, its just like magnetism. Damn that bullshit magnetism for only effecting certain elements.