Piltdown Man

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?

I am not Tom Bishop but I can't prove it

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Piltdown Man
« on: April 24, 2007, 07:10:31 PM »
If you want proof of how much science is flawed, look no further than the Piltdown Man.  Scientists were so eager to confirm Darwin's theory, that when someone "found" bone fragments of the kind everyone was looking for (i.e. fit Darwin's theory), they all went hoorah and said this was clear proof that Darwin's ideas were correct.  Yeah, a HARD FACT DISCOVERY.  Then when it was discovered to be a conspiracy, they changed their theory and said, "Actually, what we are looking for is something that looks like this."

Scientists keep changing their theories over and over again.  And each time they say this is an incontrovertible fact.  Until something else comes up to show the fallacies of their theories, after which they make up a new one and say this was the truth all along.

What do these government sponsored scientists take us for?  Fools?  You think you can just change things in front of our eyes and we aren't going to notice?  You think you can make us believe the horizon has curvature when it obviously doesn't?

Well, let me tell you "scientists" something.... You won't fool this man any longer.  His eyes are now opened and there is NOTHING you can say to make believe that up is down and down is up.  Your dirty tricks won't work anymore, so please save your breath.

It's only a matter of time when the truth will come out and mankind will be liberated from the lies and oppression of the government.

*

Raist

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Re: Piltdown Man
« Reply #1 on: April 24, 2007, 07:33:40 PM »
Maybe their theories change when new evidence is presented. Wouldn't you be more doubtful of their integrity if they didn't change their theory when contradicting evidence came out?

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dysfunction

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Re: Piltdown Man
« Reply #2 on: April 24, 2007, 08:26:44 PM »
If you want proof of how much science is flawed, look no further than the Piltdown Man.  Scientists were so eager to confirm Darwin's theory, that when someone "found" bone fragments of the kind everyone was looking for (i.e. fit Darwin's theory), they all went hoorah and said this was clear proof that Darwin's ideas were correct.

It had nothing to do with verifying evolution. It had everything to do with supporting British ethnocentrism.
the cake is a lie

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Roundy the Truthinessist

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Re: Piltdown Man
« Reply #3 on: April 24, 2007, 10:17:06 PM »
Thanks for the insight, Tom.   ::)

Re: Piltdown Man
« Reply #4 on: April 25, 2007, 05:32:49 AM »
A theory is a theory. Look up the definition.

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dysfunction

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Re: Piltdown Man
« Reply #5 on: April 25, 2007, 09:04:18 AM »
Thanks for the insight, Tom.   ::)

Did I miss something?
the cake is a lie

Re: Piltdown Man
« Reply #6 on: May 04, 2007, 06:15:42 PM »
You see, the thing about us RE'ers is that we change our theories when new evidence comes along. Oh noes, we have been proven wrong! Ok then, lets rethink our theories. How can we explain this? How can we explain this as well as explaining other facts? Through this process, we further our understanding and draw closer and closer to the truth.

Here is a FE'er. Oh noes, we have been proven wrong! Lets come up with a new force/illusion/conspiracy and then abandon the thread before we can be refuted!
Quote from: Steve Jones
An energetic, all-inclusive and amusing account of man's impressive capacity for self-delusion. Every creationist should read it.
Quote for truth.

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Demosthenes

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Re: Piltdown Man
« Reply #7 on: May 05, 2007, 12:50:53 PM »
Maybe Darwin was a drunk. Ever think of that? Huh? HUH?

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Mrs. Peach

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Re: Piltdown Man
« Reply #8 on: May 05, 2007, 01:20:49 PM »

It had nothing to do with verifying evolution. It had everything to do with supporting British ethnocentrism.

Back to Piltdown, yes, the hoax got its legs in British reaction to Java Man.  It took forty or fifty years to expose the hoax because of down right embarrassment and reticence to damage prominent careers. 




Re: Piltdown Man
« Reply #9 on: May 07, 2007, 06:18:18 PM »
That hard fact discovery idea just kicked me in the ass.

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Tom Bishop

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Re: Piltdown Man
« Reply #10 on: May 07, 2007, 10:15:30 PM »
Quote
You see, the thing about us RE'ers is that we change our theories when new evidence comes along. Oh noes, we have been proven wrong! Ok then, lets rethink our theories. How can we explain this? How can we explain this as well as explaining other facts? Through this process, we further our understanding and draw closer and closer to the truth.

If you are so open to experimental evidence demonstrating opposing theories then why haven't you rejected your RE beliefs after reading Earth Not a Globe?

There is no experimental evidence demonstrating the earth as a globe, after all. Just a lose number of observations which are perfectly explained by FE.

Re: Piltdown Man
« Reply #11 on: May 18, 2007, 07:57:42 PM »
Because there is plenty of evidence for a round earth, and the flawed experiments of a single man as evidence for a flat earth.

Also, the weak explanations provided for certain events/observations in FE don't convince me for a second. A ship being obstructed by waves? Been refuted by Gin countless times, and yet you still use it as an argument. There are so many holes in the FE argument, and I can see none in the RE argument. Perhaps there are some - point them out to me and give me suffiecient evidence that they exist, then show me how a flat earth can explain them. That is, explain them in a way that does not rely on quotes from Earth: Not a globe. I don't believe that Rowbotham has ANY scientific credibility - stop using his flawed experiments as evidence and start using real evidence. And stop abandoning threads when you lose an argument - that is very frustrating.
Quote from: Steve Jones
An energetic, all-inclusive and amusing account of man's impressive capacity for self-delusion. Every creationist should read it.
Quote for truth.

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Tom Bishop

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Re: Piltdown Man
« Reply #12 on: May 21, 2007, 09:10:09 AM »
Incorrect. There is zero experimental evidence for a Round Earth. That picture you have as your avatar image? Nothing more than a mosaic. It comes directly from NASA's Blue Marble project: http://visibleearth.nasa.gov/view_rec.php?id=2429

Quote:

    This spectacular “blue marble” image is the most detailed true-color image of the entire Earth to date. Using a collection of satellite-based observations, scientists and visualizers stitched together months of observations of the land surface, oceans, sea ice, and clouds into a seamless, true-color mosaic of every square kilometer (.386 square mile) of our planet.

Quote
Also, the weak explanations provided for certain events/observations in FE don't convince me for a second. A ship being obstructed by waves? Been refuted by Gin countless times, and yet you still use it as an argument.

Gin has not debunked anything at all . All arguments are only imagined. Gin presents side view illustrations which do not take perspective into account.

Quote
There are so many holes in the FE argument, and I can see none in the RE argument.

Here's a RE hole: There is zero experimental evidence which suggests a Round Earth.

Quote
Perhaps there are some - point them out to me and give me suffiecient evidence that they exist, then show me how a flat earth can explain them. That is, explain them in a way that does not rely on quotes from Earth: Not a globe. I don't believe that Rowbotham has ANY scientific credibility - stop using his flawed experiments as evidence and start using real evidence.

Dr. Rowbotham has plenty of credibility. In his day Rowbotham toured Europe giving lectures at many prominent universities. At the conclusion of every lecture he would debate with the brightest minds of the day over the shape of the earth. In each and every instance Dr. Rowbotham was successful in swaying many members of the audience over to his position. A widespread Zetetic movement began, demanding that the government look into the sphere issue.

The following are a few quotes of the press after Rowbotham's lectures. I believe these reviews speak for themselves:

    "ZETETIC ASTRONOMY.--No doubt many of our readers have been mystified and surprised within the last week by the announcement that, in three lectures, at the Northampton Mechanics' Institute, a gentleman who calls himself 'Parallax,' would undertake to prove the earth not a globe, &c., &c. . . . We were highly gratified by the manner in which this important subject was handled by 'Parallax'--a pseudonym which the lecturer informed his audience he had adopted in order to avert the effect of an insinuation that his startling announcement is but the morbid desire of an individual to be known as the propounder of a philosophy boldly at variance with that of the great astronomers of the past and present. His subject was handled in a plain and easy manner, his language and allusions proving him a man of education and thought, and certainly not a pedant. The experiments mentioned, divested of technicality in their recital, and understandable by all, were of such a nature as to cause a start of surprise at their simplicity and truthfulness. . . . It is not for us to pronounce a verdict upon so important an issue; 'Parallax' may be in error, but as far as his reasonings from fact and experiment go, there is much to set scientific men thinking. His arguments consist of facts, and such as are patent to all degrees of mental capacity. . . . In the discussions which followed, 'Parallax' certainly lost no ground, either in answer to questions or to some broad assertions quoted from learned authorities."--South Mid-land Free Press, August 14th, 1858.

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    "'PARALLAX' AT THE LECTURE HALL.--This talented lecturer is again in Greenwich, rivetting the attention of his audiences, and compelling them to submit to the facts which he brings before them--we say submit, for this they do; it seems impossible for any one to battle with him, so powerful are the weapons he uses. Mathematicians argue with him at the conclusion of his lectures, but it would seem as though they held their weapons by the blade and fought with the handle, for sure enough they put the handle straight into the lecturer's hand, to their own utter discomfiture and chagrin. It remains yet to be seen whether any of our Royal Astronomers will have courage enough to meet him in discussion, or whether they will quietly allow him to give the death-blow to the Newtonian theory, and make converts of our townspeople to his own Zetetic philosophy. If 'Parallax' be wrong, for Heaven's sake let some of our Greenwich stars twinkle at the Hall, and dazzle, confound, or eclipse altogether this wandering one, who is turning men, all over England, out of the Newtonian path. 'Parallax' is making his hearers disgusted with the Newtonian and every other theory, and turning them to a consideration of facts and first principles, from which they know not how to escape. Again we beg and trust that some of our Royal Observatory gentlemen will try to save us, and prevent anything like a Zetetic epidemic prevailing amongst us."--Greenwich Free Press, May 19th, 1862.

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    "EARTH NOT A GLOBE.--On Monday last a gentleman adopting the nom de plume of 'Parallax'--a very appropriate name, seeing that the basis of his arguments is the relation to each other of parallel lines--commenced a series of lectures at the Public Hall on 'Zetetic Astronomy,' a system directly opposed to the great Newtonian theory. That he is a clever man, and has studied the matter deeply, and that he is master of his subject, and thoroughly convinced of its truth, is apparent; and his arguments are certainly very plausible. The lecture drew large audiences, and among those present we noticed (here a list is given of many of the leading men and families of the district). 'Parallax' commenced by explaining the word 'Zetetic,' which had been adopted, because they did not sit in their closets and endeavour to frame a theory to explain certain phenomena, but went abroad into the world, and thoroughly investigated the subject. Lengthy and animated discussions ensued; votes of thanks were passed to the lecturer and the chairman-- Nixon Porter, who declared that he was much struck with the simplicity and candour with which the lecturer had stated his views; and, after a promise by 'Parallax' that he would pay another visit to Warrington, the audience dispersed."--Warrington Advertiser, March 24th, 1866.

You may find additional reviews here.
« Last Edit: May 21, 2007, 09:34:31 AM by Tom Bishop »

Re: Piltdown Man
« Reply #13 on: May 21, 2007, 09:38:07 AM »
Multiple eye witness accounts from perfectly sane and well educated people are proof enough for me of a RE.

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sokarul

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Re: Piltdown Man
« Reply #14 on: May 21, 2007, 10:38:25 AM »
blah blah blah I talk out my ass

There is plenty of evidence for a round earth but you guys change your theory to cover them.  The well experiment does prove a round earth.  But then you guys created a magical force to move the sun.  Also the sinking ship.  You created some idea how waves can block a boat. 
 
Quote
Here's a RE hole: There is zero experimental evidence which suggests a Round Earth.
What about the fact that the southern hemisphere would be much larger then the northern.  Wounder why no one has ever noticed.  Also don't forget gravitation by mass.   
Quote
blah blah blah more earth not a globe shit
Call me when Earth:Not a globe 2007 edition comes out. 
If you are on İntikam's ignore list it's because you destroyed his arguments.

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Tom Bishop

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Re: Piltdown Man
« Reply #15 on: May 21, 2007, 10:58:25 AM »
Quote
What about the fact that the southern hemisphere would be much larger then the northern.  Wounder why no one has ever noticed.

Did you forget how polar explorer James Clark Ross reported a circumference of over 60,000 miles after sailing around Antarctica?

Quote
Multiple eye witness accounts from perfectly sane and well educated people are proof enough for me of a RE.

Perfectly sane?

Film maker and Moon Hoax whistle blower Bart Sibre invited Buzz Aldrin, the second man who allegedly walked on the moon, to a Beverly Hills hotel under the pretext of an interview on space for a Japanese children's television show. When Aldrin arrived, Sibrel was there demanding that Aldrin swear on a Bible that he had walked on the moon.

When Aldrin refused, Sibrel called him a coward, a liar, and a thief. A fustrated Aldrin punched Sibrel in the jaw, which was recorded and broadcast in Sibre's documentary Astronauts Gone Wild.
« Last Edit: May 21, 2007, 11:04:16 AM by Tom Bishop »

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sokarul

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Re: Piltdown Man
« Reply #16 on: May 21, 2007, 11:03:50 AM »
Quote
Multiple eye witness accounts from perfectly sane and well educated people are proof enough for me of a RE.

Perfectly sane?

Film maker and Moon Hoax whistle blower Bart Sibre invited Buzz Aldrin, the second man who allegedly walked on the moon, to a Beverly Hills hotel under the pretext of an interview on space for a Japanese children's television show. When Aldrin arrived, Sibrel was there demanding that he swear on a Bible that he had walked on the moon.

When Aldrin refused, Sibrel called him a coward, a liar, and a thief. A fustrated Aldrin punched Sibrel in the jaw, which was recorded and broadcast in Sibre's documentary Astronauts Gone Wild.
People will do anything for money.  This includes making stupid hoaxes ups so stupid people will buy them.

Quote
Did you forget how polar explorer James Clark Ross reported a circumference of over 60,000 miles after sailing around Antarctica?
Did you forget how he didnt?  I searched and couldnt find that. Not to mention 60,000 miles at 10 miles per hour is 250 days.  He wasnt gone that long.
« Last Edit: May 21, 2007, 11:08:21 AM by sokarul »
If you are on İntikam's ignore list it's because you destroyed his arguments.

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Tom Bishop

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Re: Piltdown Man
« Reply #17 on: May 21, 2007, 11:23:07 AM »
Quote
Did you forget how he didnt?  I searched and couldnt find that. Not to mention 60,000 miles at 10 miles per hour is 250 days.  He wasnt gone that long.

James Clark Ross and his expeditionary crew were gone for five years.

-

Oh and you forgot to reference some experimental evidence suggesting a Round Earth, Sokarul.

Until you can do that, go piss up a rope.
« Last Edit: May 21, 2007, 11:28:16 AM by Tom Bishop »

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Roundy the Truthinessist

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Re: Piltdown Man
« Reply #18 on: May 21, 2007, 11:27:38 AM »
 :o

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Colonel Gaydafi

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Re: Piltdown Man
« Reply #19 on: May 21, 2007, 11:31:00 AM »
Oh and you forgot to reference some experimental evidence suggesting a Round Earth, Sokarul.

Until you can do that, go piss up a rope.

Hahha nominating that for QOTW!!!
Quote from: WardoggKC130FE
If Gayer doesn't remember you, you might as well do yourself a favor and become an hero.
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sokarul

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Re: Piltdown Man
« Reply #20 on: May 21, 2007, 11:36:21 AM »
Quote
Did you forget how he didnt?  I searched and couldnt find that. Not to mention 60,000 miles at 10 miles per hour is 250 days.  He wasnt gone that long.

James Clark Ross and his expeditionary crew were gone for five years.

-

Oh and you forgot to reference some experimental evidence suggesting a Round Earth, Sokarul.

Until you can do that, go piss up a rope.
I guess you cant read the well experiment part.  But either wya its kind of hard to dispove magic.  

Now back to James Clark Ross.  Show me where he went 60,000 miles.  He was using steam powered ships after all.  
If you are on İntikam's ignore list it's because you destroyed his arguments.

*

Raist

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Re: Piltdown Man
« Reply #21 on: May 30, 2007, 12:27:12 PM »
Incorrect. There is zero experimental evidence for a Round Earth. That picture you have as your avatar image? Nothing more than a mosaic. It comes directly from NASA's Blue Marble project: http://visibleearth.nasa.gov/view_rec.php?id=2429

Quote:

    This spectacular “blue marble” image is the most detailed true-color image of the entire Earth to date. Using a collection of satellite-based observations, scientists and visualizers stitched together months of observations of the land surface, oceans, sea ice, and clouds into a seamless, true-color mosaic of every square kilometer (.386 square mile) of our planet.

Quote
Also, the weak explanations provided for certain events/observations in FE don't convince me for a second. A ship being obstructed by waves? Been refuted by Gin countless times, and yet you still use it as an argument.

Gin has not debunked anything at all . All arguments are only imagined. Gin presents side view illustrations which do not take perspective into account.

Quote
There are so many holes in the FE argument, and I can see none in the RE argument.

Here's a RE hole: There is zero experimental evidence which suggests a Round Earth.

Quote
Perhaps there are some - point them out to me and give me suffiecient evidence that they exist, then show me how a flat earth can explain them. That is, explain them in a way that does not rely on quotes from Earth: Not a globe. I don't believe that Rowbotham has ANY scientific credibility - stop using his flawed experiments as evidence and start using real evidence.

Dr. Rowbotham has plenty of credibility. In his day Rowbotham toured Europe giving lectures at many prominent universities. At the conclusion of every lecture he would debate with the brightest minds of the day over the shape of the earth. In each and every instance Dr. Rowbotham was successful in swaying many members of the audience over to his position. A widespread Zetetic movement began, demanding that the government look into the sphere issue.

The following are a few quotes of the press after Rowbotham's lectures. I believe these reviews speak for themselves:

    "ZETETIC ASTRONOMY.--No doubt many of our readers have been mystified and surprised within the last week by the announcement that, in three lectures, at the Northampton Mechanics' Institute, a gentleman who calls himself 'Parallax,' would undertake to prove the earth not a globe, &c., &c. . . . We were highly gratified by the manner in which this important subject was handled by 'Parallax'--a pseudonym which the lecturer informed his audience he had adopted in order to avert the effect of an insinuation that his startling announcement is but the morbid desire of an individual to be known as the propounder of a philosophy boldly at variance with that of the great astronomers of the past and present. His subject was handled in a plain and easy manner, his language and allusions proving him a man of education and thought, and certainly not a pedant. The experiments mentioned, divested of technicality in their recital, and understandable by all, were of such a nature as to cause a start of surprise at their simplicity and truthfulness. . . . It is not for us to pronounce a verdict upon so important an issue; 'Parallax' may be in error, but as far as his reasonings from fact and experiment go, there is much to set scientific men thinking. His arguments consist of facts, and such as are patent to all degrees of mental capacity. . . . In the discussions which followed, 'Parallax' certainly lost no ground, either in answer to questions or to some broad assertions quoted from learned authorities."--South Mid-land Free Press, August 14th, 1858.

-

    "'PARALLAX' AT THE LECTURE HALL.--This talented lecturer is again in Greenwich, rivetting the attention of his audiences, and compelling them to submit to the facts which he brings before them--we say submit, for this they do; it seems impossible for any one to battle with him, so powerful are the weapons he uses. Mathematicians argue with him at the conclusion of his lectures, but it would seem as though they held their weapons by the blade and fought with the handle, for sure enough they put the handle straight into the lecturer's hand, to their own utter discomfiture and chagrin. It remains yet to be seen whether any of our Royal Astronomers will have courage enough to meet him in discussion, or whether they will quietly allow him to give the death-blow to the Newtonian theory, and make converts of our townspeople to his own Zetetic philosophy. If 'Parallax' be wrong, for Heaven's sake let some of our Greenwich stars twinkle at the Hall, and dazzle, confound, or eclipse altogether this wandering one, who is turning men, all over England, out of the Newtonian path. 'Parallax' is making his hearers disgusted with the Newtonian and every other theory, and turning them to a consideration of facts and first principles, from which they know not how to escape. Again we beg and trust that some of our Royal Observatory gentlemen will try to save us, and prevent anything like a Zetetic epidemic prevailing amongst us."--Greenwich Free Press, May 19th, 1862.

-

    "EARTH NOT A GLOBE.--On Monday last a gentleman adopting the nom de plume of 'Parallax'--a very appropriate name, seeing that the basis of his arguments is the relation to each other of parallel lines--commenced a series of lectures at the Public Hall on 'Zetetic Astronomy,' a system directly opposed to the great Newtonian theory. That he is a clever man, and has studied the matter deeply, and that he is master of his subject, and thoroughly convinced of its truth, is apparent; and his arguments are certainly very plausible. The lecture drew large audiences, and among those present we noticed (here a list is given of many of the leading men and families of the district). 'Parallax' commenced by explaining the word 'Zetetic,' which had been adopted, because they did not sit in their closets and endeavour to frame a theory to explain certain phenomena, but went abroad into the world, and thoroughly investigated the subject. Lengthy and animated discussions ensued; votes of thanks were passed to the lecturer and the chairman-- Nixon Porter, who declared that he was much struck with the simplicity and candour with which the lecturer had stated his views; and, after a promise by 'Parallax' that he would pay another visit to Warrington, the audience dispersed."--Warrington Advertiser, March 24th, 1866.

You may find additional reviews here.

So there is no evidence for a round earth because you reject it?

*

Chris Spaghetti

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Re: Piltdown Man
« Reply #22 on: May 31, 2007, 04:19:23 AM »
Alright, i can get my head 'round the sinking ships, but what about buildings? or mountains, there aint no waves blocking them, yet the same effects occur

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Midnight

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Re: Piltdown Man
« Reply #23 on: June 01, 2007, 11:27:22 AM »
If you want proof of how much science is flawed, look no further than the Piltdown Man.  Scientists were so eager to confirm Darwin's theory, that when someone "found" bone fragments of the kind everyone was looking for (i.e. fit Darwin's theory), they all went hoorah and said this was clear proof that Darwin's ideas were correct.  Yeah, a HARD FACT DISCOVERY.  Then when it was discovered to be a conspiracy, they changed their theory and said, "Actually, what we are looking for is something that looks like this."

Scientists keep changing their theories over and over again.  And each time they say this is an incontrovertible fact.  Until something else comes up to show the fallacies of their theories, after which they make up a new one and say this was the truth all along.

What do these government sponsored scientists take us for?  Fools?  You think you can just change things in front of our eyes and we aren't going to notice?  You think you can make us believe the horizon has curvature when it obviously doesn't?

Well, let me tell you "scientists" something.... You won't fool this man any longer.  His eyes are now opened and there is NOTHING you can say to make believe that up is down and down is up.  Your dirty tricks won't work anymore, so please save your breath.

It's only a matter of time when the truth will come out and mankind will be liberated from the lies and oppression of the government.


Tom...tsktsktsk...You used to be funny.
My problem with his ideas is that it is a ridiculous thing.

Genius. PURE, undiluted genius.