Experiments that prove that the Earth is Round

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Experiments that prove that the Earth is Round
« on: April 19, 2007, 09:56:14 PM »
You flat earthers seem to know a lot about science, but you are complete idiots.  The fact that the earth is round has been proven by every single test of the matter, EVER. 

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Tom Bishop

Experiments that prove that the Earth is Round
« Reply #1 on: April 19, 2007, 10:01:44 PM »
Which tests are these? I challenge you to name one terrestrial experiment which proved that the Earth is a globe.
« Last Edit: April 20, 2007, 12:19:20 PM by Tom Bishop »

Re: Experiments that prove that the Earth is Round
« Reply #2 on: April 20, 2007, 04:21:23 AM »
There are no experiments that can 100% prove that the Earth is round. However...the origin of all the experiments was to disprove that the Earth was flat. That is why they came about. That is why the Greeks were doing it thousands of years ago. What you really should be thinking is "Are there any experiments that disprove the Earth is round?" You will find none of course :P (Experiments in Earth: Not a Globe have been falsified so do not count).

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Chih

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Re: Experiments that prove that the Earth is Round
« Reply #3 on: April 20, 2007, 05:48:45 AM »
"Primitive ideas about the figure of the Earth, still found in young children, hold the Earth to be flat, and the heavens a physical dome spanning over it."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_geodesy

Wiki pwns.
Quote from: WikiPedia
Primitive ideas about the figure of the Earth, still found in young children, hold the Earth to be flat, and the heavens a physical dome spanning over it.
Standing on the ice wall with a paper airplane.... Wish me luck...

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Tom Bishop

Re: Experiments that prove that the Earth is Round
« Reply #4 on: April 20, 2007, 09:35:06 AM »
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There are no experiments that can 100% prove that the Earth is round. However...the origin of all the experiments was to disprove that the Earth was flat.

Which experiments were these? Name one.

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Primitive ideas about the figure of the Earth, still found in young children, hold the Earth to be flat, and the heavens a physical dome spanning over it.

If you truly believe that the "primitives" of the past believed in a Flat Earth, you have another thing coming. That's just what we're led to believe.

Christine Garwood and and other historians found that almost every society on the planet since the dawn of time believed in the earth as a globe. Columbus never set out to prove the earth round. Magellan never set out to prove the earth round. They already believed it. The ancient Greeks and Babylonians also held the unsubstantiated dogmatic belief of a Round Earth.

Thus, the "Round Earth" is the primitive shape of the world.
« Last Edit: April 20, 2007, 09:37:31 AM by Tom Bishop »

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DakaSha

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Re: Experiments that prove that the Earth is Round
« Reply #5 on: April 20, 2007, 10:03:03 AM »
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There are no experiments that can 100% prove that the Earth is round. However...the origin of all the experiments was to disprove that the Earth was flat.

Which experiments were these? Name one.

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Primitive ideas about the figure of the Earth, still found in young children, hold the Earth to be flat, and the heavens a physical dome spanning over it.

If you truly believe that the "primitives" of the past believed in a Flat Earth, you have another thing coming. That's just what we're led to believe.

Christine Garwood and and other historians found that almost every society on the planet since the dawn of time believed in the earth as a globe. Columbus never set out to prove the earth round. Magellan never set out to prove the earth round. They already believed it. The ancient Greeks and Babylonians also held the unsubstantiated dogmatic belief of a Round Earth.

Thus, the "Round Earth" is the primitive shape of the world.

thats like saying: "The first wheels were primitive so lets start making ours square"

I know the waterfalls shadow is wrong. Eat a dick you fuckin know-it-all :P
A Genius: PBF

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Tom Bishop

Re: Experiments that prove that the Earth is Round
« Reply #6 on: April 20, 2007, 10:07:27 AM »
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What about the multitude of individuals who have taken journeys around the earth?

Circumnavigation is perfectly possible on a Flat Earth. The layout of the Flat Earth has the point of magnetic North at the center of its hub, with the continents spread around it in a layout similar to the one depicted here.

Since a compass always points North, this means that when traveling East or West a pilot or boat captain is continually curving around magnetic North as the direction of East or West changes with longitude. Therefore, on a Flat Earth: North is Hubward, South is Rimward, East is Turnwise, and West is Widdershins.

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Before you say "we do not curve as we travel East or West on a Round Earth," consider:

    Lets hypothetically say that we are at the North Pole on the top of a Round Earth and have a compass. We are positioned twenty feet from the point of magnetic North and we want to travel East. In order to continue East we must constantly and continually curve around the point of magnetic North.
« Last Edit: April 20, 2007, 06:18:11 PM by Tom Bishop »

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DakaSha

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Re: Experiments that prove that the Earth is Round
« Reply #7 on: April 20, 2007, 10:11:46 AM »
i have also NEVER been led to believe that ancient people thought the earth was flat. ive probably heard more about ancients saying it was round in fact.

I know the waterfalls shadow is wrong. Eat a dick you fuckin know-it-all :P
A Genius: PBF

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Tom Bishop

Re: Experiments that prove that the Earth is Round
« Reply #8 on: April 20, 2007, 10:21:39 AM »
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thats like saying: "The first wheels were primitive so lets start making ours square"

If we significantly reworked the surface of our roads, turning them into a series of arcs, square wheels actually would be better for screeching to a halt in order to avoid a fatal accident.

http://www.sciencenews.org/articles/20040403/mathtrek.asp

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i have also NEVER been led to believe that ancient people thought the earth was flat. ive probably heard more about ancients saying it was round in fact.

If you ask the typical person on the street if the people of the past believed that the world was flat, they would most likely say yes.
« Last Edit: April 20, 2007, 10:24:32 AM by Tom Bishop »

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DakaSha

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Re: Experiments that prove that the Earth is Round
« Reply #9 on: April 20, 2007, 10:23:59 AM »
you know tom im really starting to fall deeply in love with you

edit: yes but the typical person is even dumber than me. it doesnt mean they are being "led to believe". they think of columbus and say yes because they are morons
« Last Edit: April 20, 2007, 10:25:57 AM by DakaSha »

I know the waterfalls shadow is wrong. Eat a dick you fuckin know-it-all :P
A Genius: PBF

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sokarul

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Re: Experiments that prove that the Earth is Round
« Reply #10 on: April 20, 2007, 10:43:51 AM »
Hey lets all go watch Mercury and Venus transit the sun. 
ANNIHILATOR OF  SHIFTER

It's no slur if it's fact.

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DakaSha

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Re: Experiments that prove that the Earth is Round
« Reply #11 on: April 20, 2007, 10:51:31 AM »
LOL

I know the waterfalls shadow is wrong. Eat a dick you fuckin know-it-all :P
A Genius: PBF

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Trekky0623

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Re: Experiments that prove that the Earth is Round
« Reply #12 on: April 20, 2007, 11:01:57 AM »
Where are we going to get money to make curved roads?  You would have to demolish old ones and then carefully make arcs in the road.  Maybe they'll use that conspiracy money.  ::)

Experiments that disprove a flat earth:
1) Masts of ships appearing over the horizon before a hull.

2) Tides correspond with the moon.  If the Earth tilts, then why can't we detect this?  Because there is no daily tilt.

3) Tom, you have posted a picture explainig season.  But there has been no explanation on perpetual day/night in the Poles.  Perpetual day concerns me most.  The only way this could happen is for the sun to stop revolving over the Earth, which obviously doesn't happen.

4) Accelerations slow at higher altitudes.  This has been explained by the gravitational pull of the sun/moon, but if this was true, then accelerations would change as the sun/moon revolved over the Earth.

5) There has been no evidense of a Ice Wall.  Plus, the FAQ states that thsi Ice Wall is 150 feet tall.  If this is true, then why doesn't the atmosphere overflow over the edges?  A 40,000 foot high ice wall would probably be seen by someone.

6) Distances would be distorted on a Flat Earth as a person traveled South.  East and West distances would be longer than actually predicted.  Why isn't this so?  A person flying from New Zealand to South America does not take super long to get there.

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Tom Bishop

Re: Experiments that prove that the Earth is Round
« Reply #13 on: April 20, 2007, 12:03:34 PM »
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Where are we going to get money to make curved roads?  You would have to demolish old ones and then carefully make arcs in the road.

If the advantage of square wheels could save thousands upon thousands of lives annually, then we can conclude that a square wheel is better and safer than a round wheel, despite the impracticalities with changing the surfaces of the roads.

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Experiments that disprove a flat earth:

None of those observations you provided was an experiment. Simply the same series of observations that are posted and explained in full on this forum every single day of the year. I asked for EXPERIMENTS. If you cannot show me a single EXPERIMENT conducted by an impartial scientific observer then it paints a clear picture as to the true shape of the Earth.

I can cite hundreds of experiments throughout the Flat Earth Society's 150 year history that proves the earth as flat.

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But since you insist on your petty observations you found on the internet, I'll repost the answers for you:

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Hey lets all go watch Mercury and Venus transit the sun.

Small celestial bodies making periodic transits beneath the sun does not prove the size of those bodies. In fact, the only way astronomers got the figures for the size of the Sun and Venus was by observing the transit from two vastly distant points on earth simultaneously and assuming the earth as a sphere. Through triangulation calculations, astronomers compensate for the assumed curvature of the earth and come up with an estimated figure for the size of the two celestial bodies. It is impossible to figure out the size of a celestial body just by looking it from a telescope alone - it is necessary to measure the angles between the body in the sky and the sea-level of the earth from two far away different points in space and then triangulate with simple trig.

If we rework their equations, assuming the two distant observers sat on a flat plane, the size of the Sun and the "planet" Venus are shrunk significantly. The Flat Earth Society has already given the true sizes of these celestial bodies in its literature.

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1) Hull of a ship disappearing before the mast.

Sinking Ship Effect:

Samuel Birley Rowbotham found that the vanishing point of the horizon is slightly below the edge of the horizon due the mean combined height of the waves. Although the waves might reach a maximum of 40 inches in height above the true edge of the horizon, it has a profound effect. This means that as the ship shrinks on the horizon it must also sink into mean height of the combined waves. The smaller the ship gets into the distance, the more the waves at the false edge of the horizon will obscure its hull.

Consult Chapter 14 of Earth Not a Globe.

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2) Tides correspond with the moon.  If the Earth tilts, then why can't we detect this?  Because there is no daily tilt.

The Earth cannot tilt on its axis because according to Newton: An object at rest tends to stay at rest and an object in motion tends to stay in motion with the same speed and in the same direction. Whoever wrote that FAQ doesn't know physics.

I explain the real FES stance on tides here: http://theflatearthsociety.org/forum/index.php?topic=12567.0

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3) Tom, you have posted a picture explainig season.  But there has been no explanation on perpetual day/night in the Poles.  Perpetual day concerns me most.  The only way this could happen is for the sun to stop revolving over the Earth, which obviously doesn't happen.

When the Sun is in its northern annulus, the perpetual day at the pole is caused because the effects of the sun are closer to the hub of the earth.

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4) Accelerations slow at higher altitudes.  This has been explained by the gravitational pull of the sun/moon, but if this was true, then accelerations would change as the sun/moon revolved over the Earth.

The Sun and Moon have gravitation through its acceleration, but it is very slight due to the small masses of the Sun and Moon. The person who wrote that FAQ is ignorant of physics.

According to Einstein's Equivalence Principle, what you know as acceleration is really a gravitational field that bends space-time. When you accelerate your hand to swat at a fly on the table, your hand is creating a gravitational field as it accelerates through space, however minuscule. Therefore, different levels of acceleration, in conjunction with different levels of mass, would create different levels of gravitation. The lesser gravitation an airplane measures at different altitudes comes directly from the different levels of gravitation from within the Earth.

For the exact mathematics on Einstein's Principle of Equivalence see this paper on the subject: http://xxx.lanl.gov/ftp/physics/papers/0204/0204044.pdf

    "However one of the main tenants of general relativity is the Principle of Equivalence: A uniform gravitational field is equivalent to a uniformly accelerating frame of reference. This implies that one can create a uniform gravitational field simply by changing one’s frame of reference from an inertial frame of reference to an accelerating frame, which is a rather difficult idea to accept."

Also, read this recent thread where TheEngineer breaks down the Equivalence Principle: http://theflatearthsociety.org/forum/index.php?topic=11670.0

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5) There has been no evidense of a Ice Wall.  Plus, the FAQ states that thsi Ice Wall is 150 feet tall.  If this is true, then why doesn't the atmosphere overflow over the edges?  A 40,000 foot high ice wall would probably be seen by someone.

Polar explorer James Clark Ross found a 150 foot Ice Wall which he could not circumnavigate around over a number of months in his southern expeditions.

The atmosphere of the earth is kept in through a different mechanism.

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6) Distances would be distorted on a Flat Earth as a person traveled South.  East and West distances would be longer than actually predicted.  Why isn't this so?  A person flying from New Zealand to South America does not take super long to get there.

Along that course is an enormous jet stream flowing located at around 35,000 ft above the surface of the Earth. In the Southern Hemisphere exist both eastward and westward jet streams. By necessity, in relation to the polar front and subtropical jets, easterly jet streams in the Southern Hemisphere propagate at rates even faster than the westward ones. The winds in a jet stream regularly reach speeds of over 400 km/h. Airliners use these jet streams to faster reach a destination.

This variable contributes significantly to the travel time between Argentina and New Zealand. While an airplane may have a rated cruise speed it can provide under its own power, the extreme winds of the jet stream adds enormously to the actual velocity of the plane over the surface of the Earth.

For every moment the plane stays in the jet stream it is being accelerated until it matches the surrounding velocity and momentum of the air around it. From there the plane can use the limits of its power to travel faster than the jet stream. Thus, six hours of travel time between Argentina and New Zealand becomes extremely possible.

In general, the Flat Earth Society has found that winds are strongest just under the tropopause. If two air masses of different temperatures meet, the resulting pressure difference (which causes winds in FET) is highest along the interface.

These facts are a consequence of the thermal wind relation. The balance of forces on an atmospheric parcel in the vertical direction is primarily between the pressure gradient and the force of gravitation by acceleration is a balance referred to as hydrostatic. In the horizontal, the dominant balance outside of the tropics is between the Coriolis effect and the pressure gradient is a balance referred to as geostrophic.

Given both hydrostatic and geostrophic balance, the Flat Earth Society derives the thermal wind relation: the vertical derivative of the horizontal wind is proportional to the horizontal temperature gradient. The sense of the relation is such that temperatures decreasing polewards implies that winds develop a larger eastward component as one moves upwards. Therefore, the strong eastward moving jet streams are in part a simple consequence of the fact that the equator is warmer than the poles.

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Additionally, the vast majority of flights between the two areas don't travel between New Zealand and South America directly, but make a bunch of little hops along the continents, picking up and dropping off passengers along the way. Like international shipping, the post office doesn't charter a direct flight just for one parcel of mail. The post office puts it on a flight that makes dozens upon dozens of little hops along the continents of the world, picking up and dropping off mail by the ton, distributing to major regional centers. It is vastly cheaper for the airline company and post office to operate in this fashion.

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One additional thing we must consider:

If you've ever been to a major airport you would know that it seems as if every other flight is delayed. A flight rarely arrives at its estimated time. Most people with experience with air travel, who've been on international flights, can attest to the extreme delays of flight arrivals. If we search for "flight was delayed" on Google we get millions of hits. Reading the direct personal testaments, exclusing mechanical failures and bomb threats, we can see that it's not uncommon for flights to be delayed on the range of hours.

Airports may blame the cause to wind conditions, but it is very possible that the maps themselves are inaccurate, especially in the Southern Hemisphere, since they are based on the supposition of a Round Earth.

Just because lan.com may automatically measure distances on a Round Earth map and estimate that a flight might take 6 hours, it doesn't mean that it will. Observational and personal evidence will be necessary to back any flight time claims between extremities of the Flat Earth. If there were any complaints due to travel time, the customer relations person at Delta would hardly be in a position to redraw a map.

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Therefore, with these discrepancies explained in full, I come to my conclusion. The Earth remains flat.
« Last Edit: April 20, 2007, 06:16:20 PM by Tom Bishop »

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Roundy the Truthinessist

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Re: Experiments that prove that the Earth is Round
« Reply #14 on: April 20, 2007, 12:17:40 PM »
I can't believe you're still going with this assertion that we don't really know how long flights take because so many of them are delayed. ::)

I'm sure they don't keep records of these things. ::)
Where did you educate the biology, in toulet?

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Tom Bishop

Re: Experiments that prove that the Earth is Round
« Reply #15 on: April 20, 2007, 12:25:07 PM »
Your trust in them "knowing what they're doing" is entirely artificial. If an airport cannot even keep track of a passenger's cargo, what makes you think it can accurately draw its maps or give accurate estimations? It should be obvious to any working professional that most employees in a corporation do not care enough to take the initiative and improve the operations of a company.

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I'm still waiting for an EXPERIMENT from a terrestrial source that conclusively proved the earth as a globe.

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Roundy the Truthinessist

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Re: Experiments that prove that the Earth is Round
« Reply #16 on: April 20, 2007, 12:29:01 PM »
But most of the time the airport keeps track of cargo just fine.  It's only a small percentage of the time that they don't.   And I think this falls into the category "Everybody makes mistakes sometimes."

Honestly.  It's laughable that you would assert that airlines don't really know how long it takes to get from one place to another.   ::)
Where did you educate the biology, in toulet?

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Amroth

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Re: Experiments that prove that the Earth is Round
« Reply #17 on: April 20, 2007, 12:30:55 PM »
I actually agree with Tom on this one. The "experiments" are just observations and can be explained on a Flat Earth. Every "experiment" I see can be explained on a Flat Earth as well as a Round Earth and they come down to observations.
Nothing is impossible. Improbable. Unlikely. But never impossible.

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sokarul

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Re: Experiments that prove that the Earth is Round
« Reply #18 on: April 20, 2007, 12:43:43 PM »
Tom I knew you would say that.  So I will just say, you are trying to prove the whole field of astronomy wrong.  All the planets orbits are all know.  But I know you wont listen.  So just keep trying to claim Astronomy is wrong.
And the earth is always tilted, it doesn't tilt and then un tilt.
ANNIHILATOR OF  SHIFTER

It's no slur if it's fact.

Re: Experiments that prove that the Earth is Round
« Reply #19 on: April 20, 2007, 01:25:37 PM »
Your trust in them "knowing what they're doing" is entirely artificial. If an airport cannot even keep track of a passenger's cargo, what makes you think it can accurately draw its maps or give accurate estimations? It should be obvious to any working professional that most employees in a corporation do not care enough to take the initiative and improve the operations of a company.

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I'm still waiting for an EXPERIMENT from a terrestrial source that conclusively proved the earth as a globe.

Ok, let's put this into perspective.  One accurate map vs. millions of items of cargo.  Alot more of a chance with some items of cargo getting lost, over the one main thing they need to be right (the map) being wrong. .  And Tom, what specific flights are ALWAYS late?  And if they're late by some amount, are they always arriving at some consitent time late because of the map errors?  Wouldn't they airport catch on to the patterns and change flight times?

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Colonel Gaydafi

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Re: Experiments that prove that the Earth is Round
« Reply #20 on: April 20, 2007, 01:31:48 PM »
Tom's delayed flights theory is the stupidest one he has. It really is. Load of twaddle really.
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Trekky0623

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Re: Experiments that prove that the Earth is Round
« Reply #21 on: April 20, 2007, 06:47:56 PM »
Tom, is an experiment not based of observation?  The Duhem-Quine theorum states that a hypothesis cannot be disproven.  In science, the most likely answer is usually the correct on.  These forums are a good example of how unprobable (not impossible) the Flat Earth theory is.  Everyday questions are posed to FE-ers, and they come up with excuses.  Which is simpler, that gravity is a force, or that we are all traveling upward and accelerating at 9.8 m/s2?  I would choose the force.  And which is simpler, that there is and Ice Wall and conspiracy to hide the fact the Earth is flat "for money", or that the Earth is really round?  I agree, you cannot conduct an experiment to prove the shape of the Earth, round or flat, but please, think about it, to be flat, numerous things would have to special about the Earth.  There are no experiments to prove a round earth that are not based on observations.  But are there any for a flat earth?

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Roundy the Truthinessist

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Re: Experiments that prove that the Earth is Round
« Reply #22 on: April 20, 2007, 08:49:41 PM »
I'd love to see Tom give an example of an experiment he's conducted "proving" the earth to be flat that wasn't based on observation. ::)
Where did you educate the biology, in toulet?

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Chih

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Re: Experiments that prove that the Earth is Round
« Reply #23 on: April 21, 2007, 05:16:34 AM »
Quote from: From Article...
Another ancient measurement of the size of the earth was made by the Greek, Posidonius. He noted that the star Canopus was hidden from view in most parts of Greece but that it just grazed the horizon at Rhodes. Posidonius measured the elevation of Canopus at Alexandria and determined that the angle was 1/48th of circle. Assuming the distance from Alexandria to Rhodes to be 500 miles, he computed the circumference of the earth as 24,000 miles. While both his measurements were approximations when combined, one error compensated for another and he achieved a fairly accurate result.
Quote from: WikiPedia
Primitive ideas about the figure of the Earth, still found in young children, hold the Earth to be flat, and the heavens a physical dome spanning over it.
Standing on the ice wall with a paper airplane.... Wish me luck...

Re: Experiments that prove that the Earth is Round
« Reply #24 on: April 21, 2007, 06:46:46 AM »
Like I said...No experiment can disprove the Earth to be round. Not one. It is a very safe assumption that the Earth is a sphere. To believe it is flat you literally have to ignore evidence. Imagine a dodgy detective investigating a murder of which someone he doesn't like is one of the suspects. FET is the equivalent of that detective finding out that the suspect's DNA dample or fingerprints didn't match the crime-scene evidence but still thinking he was guilty.