Discussion on Anarchy

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Tim Bishop

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Discussion on Anarchy
« on: April 17, 2007, 11:08:00 AM »
This thread is for the discussion of the topic of anarchy, and if it is a logical political idea.

I'll go first. I believe anarchy can work.


Thread dedicated to Nestor Makhno
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Bat Dog

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Re: Discussion on Anarchy
« Reply #1 on: April 17, 2007, 11:09:37 AM »
Anaracy would mean more work for Bat Dog! Woof woof! More trask to take out! Arooo!

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Tim Bishop

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Re: Discussion on Anarchy
« Reply #2 on: April 17, 2007, 11:16:39 AM »
Nice logical arguement.
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cadmium_blimp

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Re: Discussion on Anarchy
« Reply #3 on: April 17, 2007, 11:55:44 AM »
I would describe myself as an anarchist, but in truth, anarchy is nothing but a pipe dream because of the very nature of mankind, which seems to be to fuck up everything we can.   ???

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Dioptimus Drime

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Re: Discussion on Anarchy
« Reply #4 on: April 17, 2007, 12:24:09 PM »
I would describe myself as an anarchist, but in truth, anarchy is nothing but a pipe dream because of the very nature of mankind, which seems to be to fuck up everything we can.   ???

Indeedy. Anarchy in today's society would spell bad news. True anarchy, though, would be utopic.

~D-Draw

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Midnight

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Re: Discussion on Anarchy
« Reply #5 on: April 17, 2007, 12:30:27 PM »
Anarchy is nothing more than angry trust fundies who got cut off from the cash, so they run around spouting stolen idealism from dead people or prisoners.

Utterly fucking useless bags of meat, who accomplish nothing but facial scars and broken lives. Get a job you gas bags.
My problem with his ideas is that it is a ridiculous thing.

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cadmium_blimp

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Re: Discussion on Anarchy
« Reply #6 on: April 17, 2007, 12:34:01 PM »
So you support governments being able to control their people, instead of the people excercising freedom?

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Midnight

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Re: Discussion on Anarchy
« Reply #7 on: April 17, 2007, 12:37:10 PM »
So you support governments being able to control their people, instead of the people excercising freedom?

Not at all. I simply do not support Anarchism as a valid belief system. I will attempt to be serious and explain myself, and assume it will be taken silly, or ignored, as usual (which is not a reflection on me, by any means):

Human nature defines man's basest impulses. Anarchy opens up the "mine mine mine" ideal. It makes every man with the ability, an asshole. It makes every person with the means, a tyrant in his or her direct sphere of influence. Every man for himself rarely works for long, and eventually, a bigger fish comes along. This is called reality.

Government puts the power in fewer hands, but concentrates the man-ego into the maniacal, and produces "random anarchy". These "random anarchies" are very telling clues as to what TOTAL anarchies would accomplish.

Precisely....dick.
« Last Edit: April 17, 2007, 12:40:55 PM by midnight »
My problem with his ideas is that it is a ridiculous thing.

Genius. PURE, undiluted genius.

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cadmium_blimp

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Re: Discussion on Anarchy
« Reply #8 on: April 17, 2007, 12:38:37 PM »
If you believe in freedom, but recognize the logical fallacy of anarchism, wouldn't that still make you an anarchist at heart, though?

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Midnight

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Re: Discussion on Anarchy
« Reply #9 on: April 17, 2007, 12:40:21 PM »
If you believe in freedom, but recognize the logical fallacy of anarchism, wouldn't that still make you an anarchist at heart, though?

Not at all. In fact, the opposite.
My problem with his ideas is that it is a ridiculous thing.

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Chris Spaghetti

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Re: Discussion on Anarchy
« Reply #10 on: April 17, 2007, 01:12:04 PM »
anarchy is a nice idea providing the transition is done gradually and the people have a clear goal towork to

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Roundy the Truthinessist

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Re: Discussion on Anarchy
« Reply #11 on: April 17, 2007, 01:14:37 PM »
anarchy is a nice idea providing the transition is done gradually and the people have a clear goal towork to

Yeah.  Like communism.

Have to agree that it could never really work.
Where did you educate the biology, in toulet?

Re: Discussion on Anarchy
« Reply #12 on: April 17, 2007, 01:15:52 PM »
Humans are pack animals, they need leaders. Government is the only way, whether its the government of mother and father in a family or the government of a political party over an entire country. Anarchy goes against human nature. It goes against all nature where social animals are involved.

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Dioptimus Drime

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Re: Discussion on Anarchy
« Reply #13 on: April 17, 2007, 04:07:21 PM »
Anarchy is nothing more than angry trust fundies who got cut off from the cash, so they run around spouting stolen idealism from dead people or prisoners.

Utterly fucking useless bags of meat, who accomplish nothing but facial scars and broken lives. Get a job you gas bags.

In practice, yes. In theory, anarchy is beauty. Of course, it's nothing more than a utopian dream which could never work properly, but theoretical anarchy is a gorgeous concept.

~D-Draw

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Colonel Gaydafi

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Re: Discussion on Anarchy
« Reply #14 on: April 17, 2007, 04:10:11 PM »
Which makes it pointless because it can only be good in theory, no?
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Re: Discussion on Anarchy
« Reply #15 on: April 17, 2007, 04:12:50 PM »
In theory humans flying unassisted is a gorgeous concept.

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James

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Re: Discussion on Anarchy
« Reply #16 on: April 17, 2007, 04:35:19 PM »
(For the record, I'm not an anarchist at all.)

Human nature defines man's basest impulses. Anarchy opens up the "mine mine mine" ideal. It makes every man with the ability, an asshole. It makes every person with the means, a tyrant in his or her direct sphere of influence. Every man for himself rarely works for long, and eventually, a bigger fish comes along. This is called reality.
One of the other things which defines humanity is our ability to overcome our basest impulses in order to make the world better for ourselves. This is self-evident in all aspects of civilization.
"For your own sake, as well as for that of our beloved country, be bold and firm against error and evil of every kind." - David Wardlaw Scott, Terra Firma 1901

Re: Discussion on Anarchy
« Reply #17 on: April 17, 2007, 04:36:37 PM »
That's one impulse I believe we will never overcome. We have overcome very little really.

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James

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Re: Discussion on Anarchy
« Reply #18 on: April 17, 2007, 04:39:30 PM »
That's one impulse I believe we will never overcome. We have overcome very little really.

Every morning when you wake up and go to work instead of lying at home masturbating or going out to rob a co-op, you prove yourself wrong. Almost all of what sets us apart from other animals is our knack for prolonging self-interest in order to achieve a better outcome.
"For your own sake, as well as for that of our beloved country, be bold and firm against error and evil of every kind." - David Wardlaw Scott, Terra Firma 1901

Re: Discussion on Anarchy
« Reply #19 on: April 17, 2007, 04:40:31 PM »
If you ever watch people for even a short amount fo time you'd see we haven't overcome much at all. Going to work? Just a safer way of hunting deers.

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Colonel Gaydafi

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Re: Discussion on Anarchy
« Reply #20 on: April 17, 2007, 04:42:16 PM »
But you go to work out of necessity, and you don't go robbing co-ops because they have nothing worth stealing and if you did authority of the government and its institutions, which wouldn't be there in an anarchical system, would punish you. Its not out of any desire to better yourself, or the world.
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James

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Re: Discussion on Anarchy
« Reply #21 on: April 17, 2007, 04:44:51 PM »
But you go to work out of necessity, and you don't go robbing co-ops because they have nothing worth stealing and if you did authority of the government and its institutions, which wouldn't be there in an anarchical system, would punish you. Its not out of any desire to better yourself, or the world.

I wasn't arguing for anarchy as I already stated, I'm just nitpicking individual points from wherever they come if they seem wrong.

The thing about going to work is that yes, it's a prolonged form of self-interest, but it still demonstrates our ability to make ourselves not follow our basic impulses in order to receive a greater reward in the long run.
"For your own sake, as well as for that of our beloved country, be bold and firm against error and evil of every kind." - David Wardlaw Scott, Terra Firma 1901

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Colonel Gaydafi

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Re: Discussion on Anarchy
« Reply #22 on: April 17, 2007, 04:48:07 PM »
I know you weren't arguing for anarchy, you're not that stupid.

I think the important basic impulse that makes anarchy not do-able is the impulse of selfishness as Midnight pointed out. Your going to work as prolongued self-interest point doesn't counteract that point.
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If Gayer doesn't remember you, you might as well do yourself a favor and become an hero.
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cadmium_blimp

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Re: Discussion on Anarchy
« Reply #23 on: April 17, 2007, 06:06:59 PM »
In practice, yes. In theory, anarchy is beauty. Of course, it's nothing more than a utopian dream which could never work properly, but theoretical anarchy is a gorgeous concept.

~D-Draw
Just like Communism, Socialism, Capitalism, blah blah blah, ya know?  They all work great in theory, but in practice, they are never as pretty as the picture painted.

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Dioptimus Drime

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Re: Discussion on Anarchy
« Reply #24 on: April 17, 2007, 06:21:32 PM »
In practice, yes. In theory, anarchy is beauty. Of course, it's nothing more than a utopian dream which could never work properly, but theoretical anarchy is a gorgeous concept.

~D-Draw
Just like Communism, Socialism, Capitalism, blah blah blah, ya know?  They all work great in theory, but in practice, they are never as pretty as the picture painted.

Truth. Of course, then again, I don't think anyone will be satisfied with any form of government. Democracy actually really sucks hard in its raw theory. However, in practice, it's the best we have. I'm of the belief that oligarchy COULD be the great if people weren't corrupt assholes. Why? Because the common people are generally ignorant and frankly most of them don't give a shit. However, none of it ends up working anyways because humans are douchebags.

~D-Draw

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cadmium_blimp

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Re: Discussion on Anarchy
« Reply #25 on: April 17, 2007, 06:28:53 PM »
We are in an oligarchy.  The only difference is that every so many years, rich assholes are replaced with different rich assholes.  The president already thinks he's king.  Maybe the next one won't, but this one has set a precedent...

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Mrs. Peach

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Re: Discussion on Anarchy
« Reply #26 on: April 17, 2007, 06:30:42 PM »
In practice, yes. In theory, anarchy is beauty. Of course, it's nothing more than a utopian dream which could never work properly, but theoretical anarchy is a gorgeous concept.

~D-Draw
Just like Communism, Socialism, Capitalism, blah blah blah, ya know?  They all work great in theory, but in practice, they are never as pretty as the picture painted.

Truth. Of course, then again, I don't think anyone will be satisfied with any form of government. Democracy actually really sucks hard in its raw theory. However, in practice, it's the best we have. I'm of the belief that oligarchy COULD be the great if people weren't corrupt assholes. Why? Because the common people are generally ignorant and frankly most of them don't give a shit. However, none of it ends up working anyways because humans are douchebags.

~D-Draw

Enter the democratic republic.
« Last Edit: April 27, 2007, 11:05:35 AM by Mrs. Gore »

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Dioptimus Drime

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Re: Discussion on Anarchy
« Reply #27 on: April 17, 2007, 06:32:40 PM »
We are in an oligarchy.  The only difference is that every so many years, rich assholes are replaced with different rich assholes.  The president already thinks he's king.  Maybe the next one won't, but this one has set a precedent...

It's an oligarchic republic if so. But that's not really what I'm talking about.

~D-Draw

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Midnight

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Re: Discussion on Anarchy
« Reply #28 on: April 18, 2007, 02:03:25 AM »
But you go to work out of necessity, and you don't go robbing co-ops because they have nothing worth stealing and if you did authority of the government and its institutions, which wouldn't be there in an anarchical system, would punish you. Its not out of any desire to better yourself, or the world.

I wasn't arguing for anarchy as I already stated, I'm just nitpicking individual points from wherever they come if they seem wrong.

The thing about going to work is that yes, it's a prolonged form of self-interest, but it still demonstrates our ability to make ourselves not follow our basic impulses in order to receive a greater reward in the long run.

I think that ties into that the average joe, pick your cliche' has not the BALLS to live on his or her basest set of impulses. Work is the safe way to maintain a sense of dominion over destiny. Anarchy is compelling for people who are "aware they have no real dominion over the status quo", but they rarely, if ever, push that need to dominate their lives that far. Thus, they go back to Jack in the Box, grumble about it on smoke break, but keep doing it.

Anarchy is almost like escapist fantasy, if you look at it from a sci-fi/fantasy nerd perspective. It grants the imaginer some serious "deification" of self, and makes their "boxed set" life appear to have the potential for "unrestrained freedom of impulse and excess".

Unfortunately, those that pursue it literally end up dead, or in a cell, and those that half ass it just end up dead.
My problem with his ideas is that it is a ridiculous thing.

Genius. PURE, undiluted genius.

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Chris Spaghetti

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Re: Discussion on Anarchy
« Reply #29 on: April 18, 2007, 02:16:57 AM »
I think it was do-able, before rampant materialism destroyed most of human selflessness, in medieval times,a village largely worked as an anarchy, yes you had the King of the region exerting his power but in part it was little consequence who worked together simply out of reasons of survival. When humans are forced to work together out of necessity, then anarchy can work