Gravitation

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mikedar

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Gravitation
« on: April 15, 2007, 10:19:33 AM »
Tom keeps mentioning Einstein's equivalence principle. He says that it states that an accelerating body creates a gravitational field and this is what holds everything to the earth. I'm no physicist, but this seems to be a misinterpretation. What I've read about the equivalence principle is that being at rest in a gravitational field is the same as experiencing acceleration in free space.

For example, if you're blindfolded, you cannot tell the difference between standing on earth and standing in a rocket ship accelerating at 9.8 m/s2. The difference is that I couldn't stand outside the rocket ship and expect to be attracted to it. In other words, if you were to try to stand on the underside of the flat earth, you would fall off.

I know Tom disagrees with me, but I was wondering if someone a little more knowledgeable wanted to weigh in.
The earth isn't flat...it's "spherically challenged".

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Mr. Ireland

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Re: Gravitation
« Reply #1 on: April 15, 2007, 10:23:09 AM »
Haha, weigh in.  Funny.

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mikedar

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Re: Gravitation
« Reply #2 on: April 15, 2007, 10:24:38 AM »
Haha, weigh in.  Funny.

Haha, I didn't even do that on purpose.
The earth isn't flat...it's "spherically challenged".

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TheEngineer

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Re: Gravitation
« Reply #3 on: April 15, 2007, 10:46:35 AM »
Once again, Tom is special.

I'm thinking of adding that to my sig.


"I haven't been wrong since 1961, when I thought I made a mistake."
        -- Bob Hudson

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Mr. Ireland

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Re: Gravitation
« Reply #4 on: April 15, 2007, 10:47:24 AM »
Once again, Tom is special.

I'm thinking of adding that to my sig.

It might help newcommers.

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Colonel Gaydafi

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Re: Gravitation
« Reply #5 on: April 15, 2007, 10:48:48 AM »
Once again, Tom is special.

I'm thinking of adding that to my sig.

Do it! Especially as your current sig is just boring now
Quote from: WardoggKC130FE
If Gayer doesn't remember you, you might as well do yourself a favor and become an hero.
Quote from: Raa
there is a difference between touching a muff and putting your hand into it isn't there?

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TheEngineer

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Re: Gravitation
« Reply #6 on: April 15, 2007, 10:51:16 AM »
Once again, Tom is special.

I'm thinking of adding that to my sig.

Do it! Especially as your current sig is just boring now
But it was funny as hell the first 3456 times you read it!


"I haven't been wrong since 1961, when I thought I made a mistake."
        -- Bob Hudson

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Colonel Gaydafi

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Re: Gravitation
« Reply #7 on: April 15, 2007, 10:52:26 AM »
Yeah...  ::)
Quote from: WardoggKC130FE
If Gayer doesn't remember you, you might as well do yourself a favor and become an hero.
Quote from: Raa
there is a difference between touching a muff and putting your hand into it isn't there?

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Mr. Ireland

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Re: Gravitation
« Reply #8 on: April 15, 2007, 10:52:35 AM »
Once again, Tom is special.

I'm thinking of adding that to my sig.

Do it! Especially as your current sig is just boring now
But it was funny as hell the first 3456 times you read it!

I swear, I've read it more than anyone.  Like just now, I read it 4 more times before posting.

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James

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Re: Gravitation
« Reply #9 on: April 15, 2007, 11:49:29 AM »
Nobody should think that by countering Tom's arguments they somehow debunk Flat Earth Theory. As you will have seen in the last few days, I've been calling him out on a lot of crazytalk, and I'm a Flat Earther. A lot of what he believes in incompatible with most of the accepted FE models.
"For your own sake, as well as for that of our beloved country, be bold and firm against error and evil of every kind." - David Wardlaw Scott, Terra Firma 1901

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Colonel Gaydafi

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Re: Gravitation
« Reply #10 on: April 15, 2007, 11:55:26 AM »
Because he's not a Flat Earther! *sighs*
Quote from: WardoggKC130FE
If Gayer doesn't remember you, you might as well do yourself a favor and become an hero.
Quote from: Raa
there is a difference between touching a muff and putting your hand into it isn't there?

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mikedar

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Re: Gravitation
« Reply #11 on: April 15, 2007, 12:03:49 PM »
Nobody should think that by countering Tom's arguments they somehow debunk Flat Earth Theory. As you will have seen in the last few days, I've been calling him out on a lot of crazytalk, and I'm a Flat Earther. A lot of what he believes in incompatible with most of the accepted FE models.

I'm completely aware of that, but theEng in another thread was talking about the same thing.
The earth isn't flat...it's "spherically challenged".

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Dioptimus Drime

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Re: Gravitation
« Reply #12 on: April 15, 2007, 12:18:28 PM »
Tom keeps mentioning Einstein's equivalence principle. He says that it states that an accelerating body creates a gravitational field and this is what holds everything to the earth. I'm no physicist, but this seems to be a misinterpretation. What I've read about the equivalence principle is that being at rest in a gravitational field is the same as experiencing acceleration in free space.

It also states that gravitation can be acheived via acceleration. Not a FIELD, but gravitation no less.

~D-Draw

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Tom Bishop

Re: Gravitation
« Reply #13 on: April 15, 2007, 12:22:51 PM »
DiegoDraw and others,

Read every word of this mathematical analysis of Einstein's Equivalence Principle: http://xxx.lanl.gov/ftp/physics/papers/0204/0204044.pdf

Here is an excerpt that summarizes the concept:

"However one of the main tenants of General Relativity is the Principle of Equivalence: A uniform gravitational field is exactly equivalent to a uniformly accelerating frame of reference. This implies that one can create a uniform gravitational field simply by changing one’s frame of reference from an inertial frame of reference to an accelerating frame, which is a rather difficult idea to accept."
« Last Edit: April 15, 2007, 12:29:34 PM by Tom Bishop »

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Mr. Ireland

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Re: Gravitation
« Reply #14 on: April 15, 2007, 01:29:17 PM »
DiegoDraw and others,

Read every word of this mathematical analysis of Einstein's Equivalence Principle: http://xxx.lanl.gov/ftp/physics/papers/0204/0204044.pdf

Here is an excerpt that summarizes the concept:

"However one of the main tenants of General Relativity is the Principle of Equivalence: A uniform gravitational field is exactly equivalent to a uniformly accelerating frame of reference. This implies that one can create a uniform gravitational field simply by changing one’s frame of reference from an inertial frame of reference to an accelerating frame, which is a rather difficult idea to accept."

And the dukes are out.

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Chih

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Re: Gravitation
« Reply #15 on: May 15, 2007, 03:34:30 AM »
And that would mean that the gravitational field would have to be constant over the face of the (*sigh*) disk for that to work....

http://space.newscientist.com/article/dn11826-satellites-solve-mystery-of-low-gravity-over-canada.html

I guess that means Einstein was wrong, since FE theory can't be...
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Primitive ideas about the figure of the Earth, still found in young children, hold the Earth to be flat, and the heavens a physical dome spanning over it.
Standing on the ice wall with a paper airplane.... Wish me luck...