Poll

As a FE supporter, do you actually believe what you are debating?

Yes
7 (41.2%)
No
10 (58.8%)

Total Members Voted: 15

A question to FE supporters

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sturmguy98

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Re: A question to FE supporters
« Reply #30 on: April 05, 2007, 07:56:23 PM »
I take back every thing I just said and its the Cavendish experiment u retard, it proves the RE's point, because it not only solved the density of the earth, but was later used to find the RADIUS (can't have one of those on an FE model)

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Tom Bishop

Re: A question to FE supporters
« Reply #31 on: April 05, 2007, 08:03:49 PM »
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I take back every thing I just said and its the Cavendish experiment u retard, it proves the RE's point,

The Cavendish experiment works on a Flat Earth.

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was later used to find the RADIUS (can't have one of those on an FE model)

A flat disk can't have a radius??

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TheEngineer

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Re: A question to FE supporters
« Reply #32 on: April 05, 2007, 08:04:12 PM »
but was later used to find the RADIUS (can't have one of those on an FE model)
Since when does a cylinder not have a radius?


"I haven't been wrong since 1961, when I thought I made a mistake."
        -- Bob Hudson

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cmdshft

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Re: A question to FE supporters
« Reply #33 on: April 05, 2007, 08:10:38 PM »
The Cavendish experiment works on a Flat Earth.

Yes, but do the expiriment in the south hemisphere/hemidisk and tell me the results. That's really the ultimate proof right there, because there's only two possible results and thus only 2 possible outcomes, and if one outcome occurs, then the implication of that outcome holds true.

1) Rotation is opposite and less offset the further south you go than that of the northern hemisphere/hemidisk, means round earth
2) Rotation is same as north and more intense the further south you go, means flat earth.

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TheEngineer

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Re: A question to FE supporters
« Reply #34 on: April 05, 2007, 08:11:33 PM »
Umm...wrong experiment, Hara.


"I haven't been wrong since 1961, when I thought I made a mistake."
        -- Bob Hudson

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cmdshft

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Re: A question to FE supporters
« Reply #35 on: April 05, 2007, 08:14:40 PM »
Fuck me.

Sorry, had a bad day.

For those who want to know, cavendish is to prove that gravitation occurs between two bodies of mass.

The experiment that I posted is called the Foucault Pendulum.

Sorry for the mistake, and thank you Engineer for correcting me.

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grafals

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Re: A question to FE supporters
« Reply #36 on: April 05, 2007, 11:27:35 PM »
I take back every thing I just said and its the Cavendish experiment u retard, it proves the RE's point, because it not only solved the density of the earth, but was later used to find the RADIUS (can't have one of those on an FE model)

Pardon my skepticism, but Cavendish performed his experiment in 1798.  The experiment was intended to measure the variations in gravitational attraction between objects, following up on Newton's Philosophić naturalis principia mathematica, published a century earlier.  

Cavendish's experiement compared the "average" density of earth to that of water, providing him with the result of 5.48 times that of water.  Presently, scientists believe this number to be 5.518 times that of water.  This number has been revised at least a half dozen times since Cavendish first performed his experiment.  

Cavendish's experiment was based on and thought to prove Newton's law of universal gravitation.  
Newton believed gravity to be a force, not unlike magnetism.  The Cavendish experiment is thought to have proven this law.  Trouble is, in 1915, Einstein published his general theory of relativity which generally discredited this idea.  Einstein's theory concludes that gravity is not a force, but a curvature in space.  

Einstein's theory has been used by seemingly legitimate scientists to claim that if you hurl yourself into a black hole, you can go back in time, despite the belief that a black hole is not a hole at all, but rather an object so dense that not even light can escape it.  Incidentally, black holes have formed the basis for poking holes (pardon the pun) in Einstein's theory of general relativity.

Thus, Einstein's theories are increasingly coming under fire due to inconsistency with quantum mechanics.

Not that I should presume to know the truth . . .

If the supposed greatest minds in the field today, can't reconcile these "THEORIES" to one another, and since all of these are indeed theories, and since the experiment you claim to solidify REers beleif in spherical reality was intended to prove a theory which was revised six times and later twice supplanted by competing theories, which are themselves struggling for proof, what makes you so sure the experiment is valid in light of modern views on gravity and inconsistent with the idea of a FE?  Is a flat disk any less capable of bending space than a sphere?  Is it not possible to have a flat disk with the same density as that of a sphere at any given value?  

Perhaps most important, given the complexity of the whole concept, what exactly is your basis in experience for relying on the experiment?  Have you recreated it?  Have you ever actually seen it performed?  Are you capable of verifying or even understanding it in its place?

If so, then bravo.  I look forward to reading your paper.  I didn't know physics was such a prominent course in law school.

If not, then back to my core question . . . why spend so much time defending principals you don't fully understand?  

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Agent_0042

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Re: A question to FE supporters
« Reply #37 on: April 06, 2007, 11:12:34 AM »
Quote from: grafals
No.  A book is NOT proof.  It is a writing created by someone who claims to have found proof.  That is why scientific orders require that any theory must be capable of recreation in order to endorse publication.  That is why prudent scientists, upon reading a book, will demonstrate for themselves to their own satisfaction, the theories in a book, before continuing to build on any body of science.  That is how we came to learn that Galileo and Newton weren't right about all that they published. 

A book is indeed NOT proof.
If a book is indeed not proof, then how come so many of the FEers end their debates with "read Earth: Not A Globe"? Almost every FEer on these forums will refuse to listen if an RE even attempts to refer to a book or a paper. Why is it okay for FEers to use an outside source but not for REers? Maybe if your side didn't discount every REer with actual observations as part of their "Conspiracy" witch hunt, there would be more people on the forums with first-hand knowledge. The attitude of the majority of the FEers on these forums actually DISCOURAGES rational discussion and arguements from REers.

Quote from: grafals
Are atoms round?  There are millions of books that say so.  And yet, quantum mechanics and string theory suggest otherwise.  Have you ever seen an atom?  Would you argue that it is a little round planet with orbital electrons?
What are you talking about? No one's called atoms round since Dalton! I think you need to reread those millions of books. Make sure you check the copyright dates. Quantum mechanics and string theory may suggest otherwise, but they don't decidedly tell otherwise. The two are still as full of holes and inconsistencies as...as...as a flat earth. Which is why they aren't completely accepted yet.

No, I haven't seen an atom, but the idea of an atom seems to work with chemistry. I haven't seen "gravity", but I've seen things falling, I've seen the moon orbiting, and the idea of gravity fits in with those observations. Has an FE ever seen a Government Conspiracy? Has an FE ever seen the Universal Accelerator?

"Atoms", "gravities", "accelerators", "conspiracies", all of these aren't objects, but abstracts. Not being able to physically see them doesn't make them any less real.

Quote from: grafals
What exactly do you REALLY KNOW?  I'll wager, without insult, next to nothing.  Certainly not as much as anyone, including myself, thinks he knows.
What do the FEers really know? The level of inconsistency among Flat Earth proponents here almst makes these forums a laughingstock. They can't even agree how gravity works, and few of them even agree on the same FE model. This suggests to me that the FEers know as little as they claim the REers do.

Quote from: grafals
The reason FEers don't have to show you the wall, is because the shape of the earth is self evident.  Even if no ice wall existed, one need only observe with his eyes the shape of the earth.  THAT, is proof.  Now its your turn to refute what my eyes can see.
Guess what? I just stood up, went outside, and looked at the land around me. Did I see part of a sphere? Nope. Nor did I see a flat plain. I saw hills, mountains, valleys, cliffs, canyons, etc. Self-evident? You prove to me that it is self-evidently flat.

Quote from: grafals
If you cannot, then why are you bothering to argue?  Why are you wasting time defending things you read in books or saw on TV that you don't understand?
Even though I just refuted what you saw, I am going to help out the ones who live in the Midwest, or maybe around Death Valley. We are arguing because you don't completely understand either. We aren't the only ones defending things in books...
« Last Edit: April 06, 2007, 11:14:20 AM by Agent_0042 »
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Can the FAQ...
Yes, it can.

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Agent_0042

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Re: A question to FE supporters
« Reply #38 on: April 06, 2007, 08:28:00 PM »
And grafals vanishes in a poof of logic...
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Can the FAQ...
Yes, it can.