gravitons

what if the graviton are true and millions of scientist around the world saw in there own eye using microscope this particular elementary particle? does all the flat earthers will gonna debunked there theory of flat earth?

I can't understand what the hell you're asking with all of that strange grammar.  Do flat earth schools teach you a special language, too?

FE is not wholly incompatible with the existence of gravity.

If they found that the earth emits gravitons, then the acceleration model would need to be revised.

what if the graviton are true and millions of scientist around the world saw in there own eye using microscope this particular elementary particle? does all the flat earthers will gonna debunked there theory of flat earth?

Gravity doesnt need a particle to work.

Quote from: huckfinn on April 04, 2007, 10:28:17 AM

what if the graviton are true and millions of scientist around the world saw in there own eye using microscope this particular elementary particle? does all the flat earthers will gonna debunked there theory of flat earth?

Gravity doesnt need a particle to work.

Then how can space know how much to distort in relation to mass and distance?  Maybe by one of your magical forces?

Does magnetism have a particle?

What about strong and weak nuclear forces that occur in the nucleus of an atom?

Do they require particles to exist in order for them to work?

Quote from: sokarul on April 04, 2007, 12:34:38 PM

Quote from: huckfinn on April 04, 2007, 10:28:17 AM

what if the graviton are true and millions of scientist around the world saw in there own eye using microscope this particular elementary particle? does all the flat earthers will gonna debunked there theory of flat earth?

Gravity doesnt need a particle to work.

Then how can space know how much to distort in relation to mass and distance?  Maybe by one of your magical forces?

Don't even take my words and claim them as your own.  
What would the particle even do?  A mass simple bends spacetime.  That doesn't need a particle.  Just like you saying acceleration bends spacetime.  To claim mass needs a particle is to claim acceleration needs a particle.  

But while your reading this thread go back to the ISS thread.  

Does magnetism have a particle?

What about strong and weak nuclear forces that occur in the nucleus of an atom?

Do they require particles to exist in order for them to work?

Can you prove they don't?

Quote from: Hara Taiki on April 04, 2007, 12:40:07 PM

Does magnetism have a particle?

What about strong and weak nuclear forces that occur in the nucleus of an atom?

Do they require particles to exist in order for them to work?

Can you prove they don't?

Edited for clarity:
I think it is amusing that we all use the idea of forces in many of our posts, yet none of us under either theory has an explanation for any force in the universe. Whether it is gravity, magnetism, electric attraction, or just how a kick to your dog can send him flying. We cannot explain a single one, only that they do exist.

*cough* subatomic particles *cough*

*cough* subatomic particles *cough*

Explain, I'm interested.

Well, as I do not have a degree in subatomic particles, I will pull some stuff out of my butt to cover myself while I come up with a proper response (woah, right now I feel like an FE)

All atoms emit subatomic particles with masses so low that they effect the mass of the atom very little. These particles then "dance" and transfer momentum and energy between the atoms.

WHew, that took some effort.

Does magnetism have a particle?

What about strong and weak nuclear forces that occur in the nucleus of an atom?

Do they require particles to exist in order for them to work?

Magnetism has virtual photons.  All the fundamental forces are mediated by some sort of particle.

Never thought I would be saying this, but...


Thanks Engineer.



  I feel dirty.

Well, as I do not have a degree in subatomic particles, I will pull some stuff out of my butt to cover myself while I come up with a proper response (woah, right now I feel like an FE)

All atoms emit subatomic particles with masses so low that they effect the mass of the atom very little. These particles then "dance" and transfer momentum and energy between the atoms.

WHew, that took some effort.

If a subatomic particle is responsible for gravity, I can show you my major problem with that. Lets say the world is round and all celestial bodies orbit each other due to a force called gravity. Well the earth and sun send gravitons back and forth that will cause a certain amount of attraction towards one another dependant on the quantity of gravitons and in what direction they came from or what message they might contain.

Heres my problem: There is a potential energy in the sun and earth due to their distance. Meaning that they have the energy to fall to each other and collide with massive energy. Now if a graviton exists, what if something interferes with its path or message? What if the sun is told to be attracted to the earth in a different direction? That would violate the whole principals of newtonian physics. It would mean you could create energy from nothing.

This is due to the fact that the idea of gravitons implies that the sun has the ability to accelerate itself in any direction. All it is doing is waiting to find out what vector of acceleration to apply. This is inconsistant with many theories. The force of attraction on the sun, must be a direct cause of the earth and visa versa.

Additionally, gravity is a pulling force. In physics, a very basic lesson is there is no such thing as a pulling force, only a pushing one. These can be complicated, so as to seem like a pulling force when it is actually a series of pushing ones. This makes me inclined to believe in gravity (and magnetic and electric) forces that are a series of pushing ones. But that is off topic. If you want to know more I will explain elsewhere.

Quote from: Hara Taiki on April 04, 2007, 12:40:07 PM

Does magnetism have a particle?

What about strong and weak nuclear forces that occur in the nucleus of an atom?

Do they require particles to exist in order for them to work?

Magnetism has virtual photons.  All the fundamental forces are mediated by some sort of particle.

Can you show me a article which states this as a fact? (Not questioning you, I just wanna read up on it)

Can you show me a article which states this as a fact? (Not questioning you, I just wanna read up on it)

Of course I can.  So a search on virtual particles or fundamental interaction.  Wiki has a nice table listing the fundamental mediators.

Quote from: Ulrichomega on April 04, 2007, 01:40:40 PM

Well, as I do not have a degree in subatomic particles, I will pull some stuff out of my butt to cover myself while I come up with a proper response (woah, right now I feel like an FE)

All atoms emit subatomic particles with masses so low that they effect the mass of the atom very little. These particles then "dance" and transfer momentum and energy between the atoms.

WHew, that took some effort.

If a subatomic particle is responsible for gravity, I can show you my major problem with that. Lets say the world is round and all celestial bodies orbit each other due to a force called gravity. Well the earth and sun send gravitons back and forth that will cause a certain amount of attraction towards one another dependant on the quantity of gravitons and in what direction they came from or what message they might contain.

Heres my problem: There is a potential energy in the sun and earth due to their distance. Meaning that they have the energy to fall to each other and collide with massive energy. Now if a graviton exists, what if something interferes with its path or message? What if the sun is told to be attracted to the earth in a different direction? That would violate the whole principals of newtonian physics. It would mean you could create energy from nothing.

This is due to the fact that the idea of gravitons implies that the sun has the ability to accelerate itself in any direction. All it is doing is waiting to find out what vector of acceleration to apply. This is inconsistant with many theories. The force of attraction on the sun, must be a direct cause of the earth and visa versa.

Additionally, gravity is a pulling force. In physics, a very basic lesson is there is no such thing as a pulling force, only a pushing one. These can be complicated, so as to seem like a pulling force when it is actually a series of pushing ones. This makes me inclined to believe in gravity (and magnetic and electric) forces that are a series of pushing ones. But that is off topic. If you want to know more I will explain elsewhere.

Well, if you want to get that techinical, there is no gravity and all bodies of mass simply attract each other by distorting the space around them. This causes the surrounding objects to "fall" into the object. Not really fall, since you and I do not produce enough "gravity" to cause eachother to fall into eachother. Also, If you could elaborate your answer without the misleading language it would be appreciated.

Quote from: narcberry on April 04, 2007, 01:54:13 PM

Quote from: Ulrichomega on April 04, 2007, 01:40:40 PM

Well, as I do not have a degree in subatomic particles, I will pull some stuff out of my butt to cover myself while I come up with a proper response (woah, right now I feel like an FE)

All atoms emit subatomic particles with masses so low that they effect the mass of the atom very little. These particles then "dance" and transfer momentum and energy between the atoms.

WHew, that took some effort.

If a subatomic particle is responsible for gravity, I can show you my major problem with that. Lets say the world is round and all celestial bodies orbit each other due to a force called gravity. Well the earth and sun send gravitons back and forth that will cause a certain amount of attraction towards one another dependant on the quantity of gravitons and in what direction they came from or what message they might contain.

Heres my problem: There is a potential energy in the sun and earth due to their distance. Meaning that they have the energy to fall to each other and collide with massive energy. Now if a graviton exists, what if something interferes with its path or message? What if the sun is told to be attracted to the earth in a different direction? That would violate the whole principals of newtonian physics. It would mean you could create energy from nothing.

This is due to the fact that the idea of gravitons implies that the sun has the ability to accelerate itself in any direction. All it is doing is waiting to find out what vector of acceleration to apply. This is inconsistant with many theories. The force of attraction on the sun, must be a direct cause of the earth and visa versa.

Additionally, gravity is a pulling force. In physics, a very basic lesson is there is no such thing as a pulling force, only a pushing one. These can be complicated, so as to seem like a pulling force when it is actually a series of pushing ones. This makes me inclined to believe in gravity (and magnetic and electric) forces that are a series of pushing ones. But that is off topic. If you want to know more I will explain elsewhere.

Well, if you want to get that techinical, there is no gravity and all bodies of mass simply attract each other by distorting the space around them. This causes the surrounding objects to "fall" into the object. Not really fall, since you and I do not produce enough "gravity" to cause eachother to fall into eachother. Also, If you could elaborate your answer without the misleading language it would be appreciated.

I didn't notice you had a question. I was just blabbering my thoughts.

Quote from: Hara Taiki on April 04, 2007, 01:55:51 PM

Can you show me a article which states this as a fact? (Not questioning you, I just wanna read up on it)

Of course I can.  So a search on virtual particles or fundamental interaction.  Wiki has a nice table listing the fundamental mediators.

I see. Of course, these particles are still theoretical (with the exception of the photon). I never knew that light could generate magnetism.

See!  This forum can be very educational, as long as you only listen to the FE'ers!

See!  This forum can be very educational, as long as you only listen to the FE'ers!

Finally, after all this work... It's moments like these that make you realize it's all worthwhile.

Quote from: TheEngineer on April 04, 2007, 02:34:41 PM

See!  This forum can be very educational, as long as you only listen to the FE'ers!

Finally, after all this work... It's moments like these that make you realize it's all worthwhile.

Work?  What work?  This is a fun forum.  Who doesn't like laughing at Tom Bishop....

Quote from: narcberry on April 04, 2007, 02:39:06 PM

Quote from: TheEngineer on April 04, 2007, 02:34:41 PM

See!  This forum can be very educational, as long as you only listen to the FE'ers!

Finally, after all this work... It's moments like these that make you realize it's all worthwhile.

Work?  What work?  This is a fun forum.  Who doesn't like laughing at Tom Bishop....

Toms work alone, has helped shape the knowledge we have of this world.

Quote from: EIRD on April 04, 2007, 03:13:14 PM

Quote from: narcberry on April 04, 2007, 02:39:06 PM

Quote from: TheEngineer on April 04, 2007, 02:34:41 PM

See!  This forum can be very educational, as long as you only listen to the FE'ers!

Finally, after all this work... It's moments like these that make you realize it's all worthwhile.

Work?  What work?  This is a fun forum.  Who doesn't like laughing at Tom Bishop....

Toms work alone, has helped shape the knowledge we have of this world.

No, the knowledge we have of the people of this world.  Tom shows us how one man can change the minds of so many by simply proving that there is more than one way something can work.  I can't believe how many people say they believe the FE theory simply because a FE supporter has pointed out that something, like gravity which can be mimicked by acceleration, doesn't have to exist and it could all be a lie.  The idea proves niether a FE or RE, yet it is still capable of changing the minds of people from believing in a RE to a FE.

And how is all this connected to the Flat Earth Theory?

Maybe it isn't.

     You bet it isn't! I thought FE-ers held the position that the Earth does not exert a gravitational force on nearby bodies. So, how can FE-ers tell you something about a thing they do not believe really exists?

Was it specified to earth? (I'm not going to look, so I'll let you.)