Pedophilia Activism -- Does Sex Harm Children?

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cadmium_blimp

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Pedophilia Activism -- Does Sex Harm Children?
« Reply #90 on: July 05, 2006, 01:48:27 PM »
Quote from: "qwe"
Quote from: "6strings"
So the question becomes what do you think we should accept as a moral frame of reference upon which we should base our judgements and taboos?

good question:)  perhaps if we could increase empathy in society overall, and tie our moral compass to our feelings of empathy (ie simply it is good to help people, bad to harm people)... maybe we need to just give everyone a free 3,4-methylenedioxymethamphetamine tablet?

Hmm...ecstacy.  The rave drug of choice.

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Never give up, never surrender!

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Rick_James

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Pedophilia Activism -- Does Sex Harm Children?
« Reply #91 on: July 05, 2006, 07:58:34 PM »
As an advocate of Ecstacy use in general, I whole-geartedly support this idea and any related ideas. :)

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qwe

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Pedophilia Activism -- Does Sex Harm Children?
« Reply #92 on: July 05, 2006, 11:49:32 PM »
I think generally most people have empathy for those they care for, but none or nearly none for everyone else.  No one can blame individual people or specific groups of people for society's problems overall, it's this lack of empathy that i think is probably to blame

so, hand out 120mg of MDMA (ecstasy), an empathogen (read: generating empathy) to each citizen, see what happens :)  the world would be a much better place!

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qwe

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Pedophilia Activism -- Does Sex Harm Children?
« Reply #93 on: July 12, 2006, 04:38:13 PM »
bump :wink:

Pedophilia Activism -- Does Sex Harm Children?
« Reply #94 on: July 13, 2006, 04:36:02 AM »
Having sex with childeren is wrong.
quote="Dogplatter"]
Penguins were actually created in the 1960's by Russian scientists who combined the DNA of otters and birds.  [/quote]


LOL

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qwe

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Pedophilia Activism -- Does Sex Harm Children?
« Reply #95 on: July 13, 2006, 02:33:05 PM »
Quote from: "Yardstick2006"
Having sex with childeren is wrong.

...why?

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James

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Pedophilia Activism -- Does Sex Harm Children?
« Reply #96 on: July 13, 2006, 02:45:40 PM »
Quote from: "qwe"
Quote from: "Yardstick2006"
Having sex with childeren is wrong.

...why?


They aren't cognitively able enough to give or withold consent, meaning that it is technically a rape. It's the same reason sex with people in comas is illegal. They don't try and stop you, but it's not like they'd be able to if they wanted to.
"For your own sake, as well as for that of our beloved country, be bold and firm against error and evil of every kind." - David Wardlaw Scott, Terra Firma 1901

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James

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Pedophilia Activism -- Does Sex Harm Children?
« Reply #97 on: July 13, 2006, 03:02:20 PM »
Don't click it guys, it's obviously malicious. He's posting it in different contexts all over the site.
"For your own sake, as well as for that of our beloved country, be bold and firm against error and evil of every kind." - David Wardlaw Scott, Terra Firma 1901

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qwe

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Pedophilia Activism -- Does Sex Harm Children?
« Reply #98 on: July 13, 2006, 03:13:24 PM »
Quote from: "Dogplatter"
Quote from: "qwe"
Quote from: "Yardstick2006"
Having sex with childeren is wrong.

...why?


They aren't cognitively able enough to give or withold consent, meaning that it is technically a rape. It's the same reason sex with people in comas is illegal. They don't try and stop you, but it's not like they'd be able to if they wanted to.

How can you be so sure?  Have any evidence or reasoning to back up why they are like this?  IME I would certainly have been able to choose for myself

What if the kid initiates it, and enjoys it?

What if the kid wouldn't be harmed at all from sex if, when adults learn about what he did, they wouldn't be shocked, send him to counseling, arrest the person he had sex with, and teach him sex is bad through his whole life (which happens whether he has sex or not and this causes its own psychological problems)?

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Ubuntu

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« Reply #99 on: July 14, 2006, 02:41:43 PM »
A malicious link is being distributed on this thread that happened to destroy my post. Do not click it. It will exploit your browser. Do not click it. Not even Firefox is safe.

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Ubuntu

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Pedophilia Activism -- Does Sex Harm Children?
« Reply #100 on: July 14, 2006, 10:37:41 PM »
Quote from: "6strings"
Ugh, you people and your social relativism.  Sure, we could call absolutely every belief we have into question, because we've got no real frame of reference on which we could base our definitions of "good" and "evil" (unless you're a theist, but then you'd have to prove that your religion is truth, good luck with that).  

I could ask "Why is it bad to kill people?",  "Why is it bad to steal?", "Why is it bad to sleep with my neighbor's wife?",  It's only your foolish social taboos based on the Judeo-Christian belief system that makes these things wrong.


Actually, morality is inborn. The reason killing and stealing is "evil" is because it is bad for the survival of the species. If apes went around killing all the other apes and stealing food, the apes wouldn't survive long.

Morality has existed since before the very first religion.

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Erasmus

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Pedophilia Activism -- Does Sex Harm Children?
« Reply #101 on: July 15, 2006, 01:51:35 AM »
Quote from: "Ubuntu"
Actually, morality is inborn.


Sounds controversial and wrought with counterexamples.
Why did the chicken cross the Möbius strip?

Pedophilia Activism -- Does Sex Harm Children?
« Reply #102 on: July 15, 2006, 02:37:38 AM »
Quote from: "qwe"
Quote from: "Yardstick2006"
Having sex with childeren is wrong.

...why?


Why? WHY?! Because its immoral thats why! Same reason you dont steal a car or set a house on fire or shoot someone in the head or rape a woman or send a threatening letter to someone or stalk someone ect ect.
Weather the child consents or not is immaterial, there are laws that prevent this sort of thing, becausit is immoral and ,as has been pointed out before, biologically impratical.
quote="Dogplatter"]
Penguins were actually created in the 1960's by Russian scientists who combined the DNA of otters and birds.  [/quote]


LOL

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James

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Pedophilia Activism -- Does Sex Harm Children?
« Reply #103 on: July 15, 2006, 05:20:11 AM »
Quote from: "Yardstick2006"

Why? WHY?! Because its immoral thats why! Same reason you dont steal a car or set a house on fire or shoot someone in the head or rape a woman or send a threatening letter to someone or stalk someone ect ect.
Weather the child consents or not is immaterial, there are laws that prevent this sort of thing, becausit is immoral and ,as has been pointed out before, biologically impratical.


I don't think the rubberstamp "immoral because it's against the law" is a good enough reason. Drug abuse is against the law, yet it harms nobody else and can inspire high creativity and profound spiritual enlightenment (and fun).

The reason pedophilia is wrong has entirely to do with the morality of consent. The simple fact is, minors are generally not mentally equipped to make rational, informed decisions about important things like this. It's the reason 5 year olds don't buy houses, or run businesses, or vote.

The only way sex is morally acceptable is when both parties consent, and if one party is incapable of meaningful consent (as children are), the act is a de-facto rape.
"For your own sake, as well as for that of our beloved country, be bold and firm against error and evil of every kind." - David Wardlaw Scott, Terra Firma 1901

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Ubuntu

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Pedophilia Activism -- Does Sex Harm Children?
« Reply #104 on: July 15, 2006, 08:26:43 AM »
Quote from: "Erasmus"
Quote from: "Ubuntu"
Actually, morality is inborn.


Sounds controversial and wrought with counterexamples.


If morality is not inborn, there is no place it could have possibly come from. Read the rest of my post, "morality" is necessary for survival.

Pedophilia Activism -- Does Sex Harm Children?
« Reply #105 on: July 15, 2006, 07:15:04 PM »
Quote from: "qwe"
How can you be so sure?  Have any evidence or reasoning to back up why they are like this?  IME I would certainly have been able to choose for myself

What if the kid initiates it, and enjoys it?

What if the kid wouldn't be harmed at all from sex if, when adults learn about what he did, they wouldn't be shocked, send him to counseling, arrest the person he had sex with, and teach him sex is bad through his whole life (which happens whether he has sex or not and this causes its own psychological problems)?

I work with a psychologist who deals with sex offenders and it does cause damage to children, whether it be emotionally, psychosomatically, physically, or all of the above. I could see arguing about an 18 year old and his 15/16 year old girlfriend, that's not going to cause harm, but how can you claim that a 40 year old man having sex with a 12 year old boy isn't harmful? Besides the fact that every single credible study says that it does.

In fact, the line of thinking "the kid initiated it/enjoyed it/wasn't harmed by it" is the kind of logic used by sex offenders to justify their actions. I am in no way implying that you are a sex offender, just that tests the sex offenders are required by courts to take ask if they think it should be okay for 13 year-olds to give consent, if they think it won't do them harm, if they think that they enjoy it, and several other questions that would make any person with morals and a conscience sick to imagine someone thinking it's okay.

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Erasmus

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Pedophilia Activism -- Does Sex Harm Children?
« Reply #106 on: July 15, 2006, 10:58:50 PM »
Quote from: "Ubuntu"
If morality is not inborn, there is no place it could have possibly come from. Read the rest of my post, "morality" is necessary for survival.


Um, it could be taught.  And morality is not necessary for survival of a species or of an individual -- it's necessary for the survival of a society.  Hence it falls upon the shoulders of the group to educate the young in morality.

I grant of course that some moral considerations -- like prohibitions against maternal infanticide -- are probably genetic, for obvious reasons.  However, if a bunch of apes ran around stealing and killing other apes, then the apes who did the stealing and the killing would probably band together and form a gang of thieves and killers (and, let's face it, rapists) who would fight amongst themselves but still overall be fairly successful, what with all the stolen stuff and the no enemies (and the, let's face it, offspring).
Why did the chicken cross the Möbius strip?

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Ubuntu

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Pedophilia Activism -- Does Sex Harm Children?
« Reply #107 on: July 18, 2006, 09:54:34 PM »
You know, that pornography is not as vulgar as it was intended to be. A lot of sexual photographs are artistic, others just gratuitous.

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Ubuntu

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Pedophilia Activism -- Does Sex Harm Children?
« Reply #108 on: July 18, 2006, 09:57:50 PM »
Quote from: "Erasmus"
Quote from: "Ubuntu"
If morality is not inborn, there is no place it could have possibly come from. Read the rest of my post, "morality" is necessary for survival.


Um, it could be taught.  And morality is not necessary for survival of a species or of an individual -- it's necessary for the survival of a society.  Hence it falls upon the shoulders of the group to educate the young in morality.

I grant of course that some moral considerations -- like prohibitions against maternal infanticide -- are probably genetic, for obvious reasons.  However, if a bunch of apes ran around stealing and killing other apes, then the apes who did the stealing and the killing would probably band together and form a gang of thieves and killers (and, let's face it, rapists) who would fight amongst themselves but still overall be fairly successful, what with all the stolen stuff and the no enemies (and the, let's face it, offspring).


The question is: taught from where? Part of inborn morality is following parents examples, which can turn out to be bad for humans.

It doesn't make sense that morality is taught. It seems to me like that's saying the desire to reproduce is taught. Sure, it's in society a lot, but we don't learn it from that.

Pedophilia Activism -- Does Sex Harm Children?
« Reply #109 on: July 18, 2006, 10:16:48 PM »
I think a distinction needs to be made between pedophilia and hebephilia (or ephebephilia). A child who has not yet reached puberty is vastly different from a 15 year old (or even, dareIsay, possibly an 11 year old) who has reached a higher level of physical and mental maturation than a prepubescent child.

Furthermore, the reaction of those surrounding will almost always impact a person, making a situation more or less traumatic. I'm sure you've all heard of the tribes where the boys fellate the older men as a rite of passage, thinking that the ingestion of sperm makes them more manly, and these boys aren't traumatised, as it's a socially normal phenomenon. When people are expected to be hurt by something, they often will be, simply because of how they're are treated. It's similar to when a toddler falls and doesn't cry until it sees the panicked reactions of the adults around them.

That doesn't mean that there aren't many who are legitimately harmed by these actions. Not only is there emotional damage but physical damage to bodies not yet prepared for sexual activity. But then again, I've known many grow women who are unable to deal with normal sex.

It's not a cut-and-dried answer. Children, who are usually weaker mentally, physically and socially don't have the ability to say or even necessarily know what they do or do not feel comfortable with, and so it is best to err on the side of caution. It's better not to hurt someone than just use them to get your rocks off regardless of the consequences. That's pretty basic, though, and it covers all people, not just children.
'm not a flat earther. I just play one on TV.

Pedophilia Activism -- Does Sex Harm Children?
« Reply #110 on: July 19, 2006, 02:57:50 AM »
a grown-up having sex with a child is not wrong because of the social norms we have been taught..the fact is that those norms exists for very very good reasons.

Basically, the worst case would be a pre-puberty girl being raped by a grown man. why? if you're a girl I'm sure you've tried having sex before you're wet...often painful... Sex for WOMEN is painful when they aren't aroused, imagine how painful it will be to a little girl, who's entire body is smaller in size. And that is on top of the fact that she is, without doubt, a virgin the first time. She will bleed. blood comes from wounds. wounds hurt.

when it comes to other cases, if you don't count the obviously violent rapes with hitting or even cutting of the victim, I think you would see a connection between the mood of the molester at the time of the rape, and the victim, bssically, children are sensitive to the mood of the adults surrounding it and keeping it safe. A child will sense danger if the person who's the closest to it at any given time is nervous, thus, a child being raped by a person who wery well know how wrong what he/she is doing is, will pick up the nervousness, easily understand that what's happening is wrong wrong wrong, even if it's a very small child. the stress in the person's voice will make almost any word sound like a reprimade. The child will, all in all, feel that it's in danger, or, that it's being punished, without knowing what he/she did wrong. both things WILL leave it's mark.

SOme children are sensitive about their bodies as early as in their second or third year. They will feel nervous just from being undressed around other children, these children may have big reactions to having their bodies invaded by hands and worse, they sometimes alienate their own parents and don't trust adults.  if this happens when they are 3-7 years, it may have a huge impacts on their learning curves, their mental health, even their physical health, weight, basically everything. There are especially many examples of this happening to girls. Add to THIS again, that a natural way for human beings to enable themselves to break their own rules, is by 'un-humanising' their victims. They may say things like 'you're just a little twat, no better than a dog' or 'no one will care what happens to you, you're not a real person yet' and so on. Especially little girls, who have often not been yelled at as much as boys, will be frightened by this. And the words may stick with them, if they are old enough to remember.

these I believe, are the reasons why girls who have been raped as children often are more marked by it than boys in the same situation. Girls can even be left incapable of having children of their own, which in itself is hard to bear.

These are also the reasons why some children will not suffer from what's been done to them at later points, while some will, as you may imagine.

If it was up to me, paedophiles who have hurt little children should be physically castrated, no anaestethics, at the very least, they DO ruin lives. Not only among us where we have laws against it, in other cultures too.
ill a cloned baby grown in a laboratory have a belly button?

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Erasmus

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Pedophilia Activism -- Does Sex Harm Children?
« Reply #111 on: July 19, 2006, 09:15:02 AM »
I think we're all in agreement that rape and injury are wrong.  We're discussing the possibility of consentual intercourse between minors and adults.
Why did the chicken cross the Möbius strip?

Pedophilia Activism -- Does Sex Harm Children?
« Reply #112 on: July 19, 2006, 09:57:47 AM »
Quote from: "Erasmus"
I think we're all in agreement that rape and injury are wrong.  We're discussing the possibility of consentual intercourse between minors and adults.


And of course the difficulty there is can someone who is less powerful and uninformed consent to something they may not enirely understand or may be manipulated into doing by a person of authority? Children are also unable to enter into contracts for many of the same reasons. They are more vulnerable to manipulation and far less savvy about any potential consequences. Even though there are some 11-13 year olds who could probably handle a sexual relationship, since the vast majority cannot, the law errs on the side of caution.
'm not a flat earther. I just play one on TV.

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Ubuntu

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Pedophilia Activism -- Does Sex Harm Children?
« Reply #113 on: July 19, 2006, 10:18:33 AM »
Quote from: "Erasmus"
I think we're all in agreement that rape and injury are wrong.  We're discussing the possibility of consentual intercourse between minors and adults.


Toodles miss noodles, very nice post though.

Quite a tricky thing we're trying to work out. Of course I know a girl who was 11 when she had an 18 year old boyfriend whom she told she was 16 (she looked like it). However, they had a bad break up when he found out he was gay. They never engaged in any sexual activity.

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Eddie

Pedophilia Activism -- Does Sex Harm Children?
« Reply #114 on: August 06, 2006, 11:54:24 PM »
Quote from: "cheesejoff"
Quote from: "Flatearthersareretards"
Because they have sex with children!


In what way is that wrong?


In what way would it be wrong for someone to kill you then ?

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SpoylerKinge

Pedophilia Activism -- Does Sex Harm Children?
« Reply #115 on: August 10, 2006, 02:18:59 PM »
kiddie fiddling is wrong just coz venger does it dont make it write

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Ubuntu

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Pedophilia Activism -- Does Sex Harm Children?
« Reply #116 on: August 16, 2006, 03:10:59 PM »
Quote from: "Eddie"
Quote from: "cheesejoff"
Quote from: "Flatearthersareretards"
Because they have sex with children!


In what way is that wrong?


In what way would it be wrong for someone to kill you then ?


Killing often increases pain and suffering while reducing pleasure and happiness.

How does this happen when adults and young adults have sexual relations?

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dysfunction

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Pedophilia Activism -- Does Sex Harm Children?
« Reply #117 on: August 16, 2006, 03:21:25 PM »
Young adults aren't the problem. I see no inherent issues in someone who's 50 having relations with someone who's 15, it just depends on the person. However, a child of, say, 12 or under does not have enough knowledge or experience to even comprehend what sex IS. Though some children may not be hurt by sexual encounters with adults, and even enjoy it, the fact is that many children are irrevocably harmed. Studies show that most children who are sexually abused, are abused by people they know and trust. In such cases, it cannot possibly be consensual- how can a child consent to something they have no understanding of? So in cases where it is "consensual", it is most likely not because the child wants it, but because they know and trust the person taking advantage of them. Why should sex ever be a part of a relationship with a child? I can understand a "romantic" relationship with a child. That's not hurtful in any way. But sex can be hurtful, even for adults. If we allow sex with children, how do we determine when that sex is abusive, if a child will often agree to it simply because they trust the adult and do not understand what the adult wants? I would call that rape, but it is not rape in the technical sense. Technically, it is consensual- but I contend that unless a child is very mature and truly understands what sex entails, sex with a child is by definition not consensual.
the cake is a lie

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Ubuntu

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Pedophilia Activism -- Does Sex Harm Children?
« Reply #118 on: August 16, 2006, 08:20:44 PM »
Kids know what sex is at about age 8.

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quixotic

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Pedophilia Activism -- Does Sex Harm Children?
« Reply #119 on: August 16, 2006, 08:45:12 PM »
Raelly Ubuntu??

I consider my self a relatively young starter to sexual experimentation, and I can definitely tell you I was not thinking about it at age 8.

You could probably not even produce semen at that age, let alone know what force/activities generates that.

no, no, no.

Its not until at least 12-13 that you become "sexually active"

will always be a bit younger for women

Like...O M G ! ! ! He is, like, totally using the gun as like some kind of sexual weapon. O M G ! ! That is like, totally awesome! ! !