Pedophilia Activism -- Does Sex Harm Children?

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Pedophilia Activism -- Does Sex Harm Children?
« Reply #270 on: October 28, 2006, 02:18:00 PM »
Hermaphrodites.... there could be one at 22 who has yet to go through "her" period, at least I believe so, physically, if anyone wants to prove me wrong they can have fun.
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dysfunction

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Pedophilia Activism -- Does Sex Harm Children?
« Reply #271 on: October 28, 2006, 03:32:16 PM »
I know some women actually start menopause around that age (which must SUCK), but I really doubt puberty is ever that delayed.
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Pedophilia Activism -- Does Sex Harm Children?
« Reply #272 on: October 28, 2006, 03:35:20 PM »
Well I'm not sure if the hermaphroditic thing has been covered yet, by what definition do you define a "woman" as there could be female genetalia, yet testes on the inside, or male genetalia on the outside, with ovum on the inside.
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Pedophilia Activism -- Does Sex Harm Children?
« Reply #273 on: October 28, 2006, 06:14:53 PM »
a hermaphrodite is unable to have children, due to a lack of womb, or some other sexual organ neccessary fr the process. hermaphrodites only get the genetalia "pieces" a bit mixed up, they don't actually have fully functional sets of both organs. For instance, u either get ovaries or testicles...one or the other, but never both. If u do get both u are no longer referred to as a hermaphrodite im pretty sure...theres some other name i think...

i believe that they are defined as a "woman/man" on what they feel like they are. seems fair to me, they got a pretty harsh deal they should let themselves be called mr/mrs if they feel one way or the other inclined.

if a hermaphrodite is capable of having a period, he/she would do so at a relatively normal age, hence 22 is extremely unlikely for any woman, or hermaphrodite.

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dysfunction

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Pedophilia Activism -- Does Sex Harm Children?
« Reply #274 on: October 28, 2006, 07:44:55 PM »
Quote from: "CrimsonKing"
by what definition do you define a "woman" as there could be female genetalia, yet testes on the inside, or male genetalia on the outside, with ovum on the inside.


Well, I prefer to go by internal gender rather than physical sex, so it would depend on how that person identified themselves.
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dysfunction

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Pedophilia Activism -- Does Sex Harm Children?
« Reply #275 on: October 28, 2006, 07:55:02 PM »
Quote from: "woopedazz"
ovaries or testicles...one or the other, but never both. If u do get both u are no longer referred to as a hermaphrodite im pretty sure...theres some other name i think...


I'm pretty sure it's not possible to have both fully functional... everyone has either XY or XX sex chromosomes (or, rarely, XXY or XYY, but that doesn't matter in this case), so while you could have physical attributes of both sexes, you couldn't actually have fully functional, reproductive-capable sets of both.
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Pedophilia Activism -- Does Sex Harm Children?
« Reply #276 on: October 28, 2006, 08:51:57 PM »
Quote from: "Erasmus"


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Why are sexual taboos so prevalent in societies?


You mean, in our society.


No, I don't.  

As societies go, american culture is pretty middle of the road with sex.  Look at the Orient, or Middle east for some real strict taboos, ancient Rome, and Greece for looser ones.

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Well, I think this is a little unfair.  Suppose we look at it from the angle of the clean, well-educated, handsome, charming .... architect who meets an adorable, emotionally open eight-year-old girl.  You can't automatically label all pedophiles "dirty old men" because it suits the stereotype that you want to impose on them and that people who are arguing for social change want to tear down.

Basically, my point is that if you're going to argue that pedophilia is wrong, you have to explain why sex is bad for children in a way that it isn't bad for adults, and why just letting the parents decide whether to let the kid have sex doesn't solve the problem.


O.K.  first of all most young children have no interest in sexual activity, other than a curiosity about what all the fuss is for.  Even things as simple as masturbation, while common amunst teenagers, are rare in children.  Oh, even babies will touch themselves, it feels good, there's a lot of pleasure nerves down there, but the whole hormone thing hasn't triggered and the resulting behavior isn't there.

The child isn't physiologically ready for it.  That's why we call them "Children".  When they start to become ready, we change the terms to things like "Young Adults".  The readiness for sexual activity is one of the indicators in Biology that a specimen is becoming an adult.

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By analogy, consider alcohol.

Thanks, don't mind if I do.  
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Some people might think it's morally wrong to give children alcohol.  I'd say, "Well, why is it okay to give adults alcohol?"  Because they are old enough to decide on their own.  "Fine," I say, "What if the child's parent chooses alcohol for them, which is the case with all other aspects of the child's life anyway?"  A better response would be, "Because something about a child's biology is sufficiently different from that of an adult that the damage to a child from use of alcohol will be much greater," or, "Because due to some biological property of children, children are more likely to become addicted to alcohol."  Those are good arguments (that in this case I disagree with in their unqualified forms), much better than, "Well, they're too young because they're too young and society has rules."
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Youth and alcohol?  Morally wrong?  So people hold that it's wrong for everyone.

Not to me, but the tolerance level for children is very low, and the potential for damage is fairly high if the tolerance is exceeded, so care must be used, but when controlled it seems to not be a problem, many european children consume wine and the like fairly regularly.

It's not an issue in my house, the kids don't enjoy it.  We let them try wine and stuff so that there is no mystery.  Heck, my kids don't even like soda.

I think a better analogy is violence on TV and in the movies.   As it has been displayed more and more realistically and openly, to younger and younger people, the levels of meaningless violence has risen.

I live near Philadelphia, we average a murder a night.  A large portion of that is done by teenagers.  Our youth has been desensitized to violence, in part because there have been exposed to it since they were kids.  Emotionally, there were not ready for what they were exposed to, and the result is horrible.  I handled guns since before I was a teenager.  We were a family of hunters.  The idea of coming into school and blasting away at people never crossed my mind.  But our horror movies were stuff like Godzilla and King Kong.  Now, these days, parents take kids to movies like Saw III.  What is the affect?  My kids lost sleep over The Wizard of Oz.  (sorry, off the soap box...)

Pedophilia Activism -- Does Sex Harm Children?
« Reply #277 on: October 28, 2006, 10:17:01 PM »
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Heck, my kids don't even like soda.


...man...ur kids r nuts...take them to a hospital or sumthing  :wink:

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Erasmus

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Pedophilia Activism -- Does Sex Harm Children?
« Reply #278 on: October 29, 2006, 01:04:17 AM »
Quote from: "Curious"
O.K.  first of all most young children have no interest in sexual activity,


Or homework.  Or washing behind their ears.  Or wearing those stupid Sunday clothes.  We make them do it anyway; sometimes because it's good for them, sometimes because it's good for us.

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Even things as simple as masturbation, while common amunst teenagers, are rare in children.


Uhm..... I'll just say, "Speak for yourself," and leave it at that.

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The child isn't physiologically ready for it.  That's why we call them "Children".  When they start to become ready, we change the terms to things like "Young Adults".  The readiness for sexual activity is one of the indicators in Biology that a specimen is becoming an adult.


You may have noticed that the exact nature of this "readiness", and potential problems with overriding that readiness, or the lack of it, is the subject of this debate.

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I think a better analogy


The point of the analogy is not to steer the debate but to put focus on what the debate is about.  The debate is about enumerating exactly what the harm of a certain activity labelled "adult only" has on kids.  With alcohol (not in moderation) it's pretty obvious.  With sex it's ... so far totally vague.
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qwe

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Pedophilia Activism -- Does Sex Harm Children?
« Reply #279 on: October 29, 2006, 10:52:37 AM »
Quote from: "Erasmus"
Quote from: "Curious"
Until the "child" is old enough to understand about sex, they are being used.  They are simply an object that the adult is performing an act upon.


....so?  Should we also conclude that until the child is old enough to understand art, we should not allow adults to paint kitten's whiskers on their faces, because they're just being used?  You still haven't demonstrated what's so special about sex.

the child will be able to understand sex whenever he becomes sexually attracted to other people.  for me this occured before preschool, although unfortunately i was not given a thorough explanation until fifth grade

i discovered masterbation during mid-elementary school age

i was old enough to choose for myself.  in fact a middle-aged man wanted to have sex with me but i was simply not attracted to him (or any other male) and declined (around fifth grade)

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Erasmus

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Pedophilia Activism -- Does Sex Harm Children?
« Reply #280 on: October 29, 2006, 01:50:04 PM »
Quote from: "qwe"
the child will be able to understand sex whenever he becomes sexually attracted to other people.


At the risk of misinterpreting you, are you saying that the age of consent should vary according to the individual in question, and be defined as the point in time when the individual wants to become sexually active?

Sorry, but it wasn't clear to me if this was supposed to be a general statement or a response to the post you quoted.
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qwe

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Pedophilia Activism -- Does Sex Harm Children?
« Reply #281 on: October 29, 2006, 04:29:38 PM »
^no, because whether the child understands sex or not, i don't see how it could be harmful unless there is some other factor (e.g. the idea that 'sex is bad' being placed in the kid'ss head, the reaction of his parents and other adults to the fact that the kid has had such a relationship, the reaction to his sexual partner ('he's evil, stay away from him!'), etc.  all this is the primary cause of the harm, imo, and if society were different it wouldnt happen, and sex with children wouldn't be harmful)

i think the extreme moral controls we've placed on sex (in more ways than just the anti-pedofile meme) are silly and do harm rather than help us

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Erasmus

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Pedophilia Activism -- Does Sex Harm Children?
« Reply #282 on: October 29, 2006, 04:58:26 PM »
Quote from: "qwe"
^no, because whether the child understands sex or not, i don't see how it could be harmful unless there is some other factor (e.g. the idea that 'sex is bad' being placed in the kid'ss head, the reaction of his parents and other adults to the fact that the kid has had such a relationship, the reaction to his sexual partner ('he's evil, stay away from him!'), etc.  all this is the primary cause of the harm, imo, and if society were different it wouldnt happen, and sex with children wouldn't be harmful)


Okay yeah this is my view as well.

I'm not sure that our society's views on sex are wrong, or more harmful than helpful, but I am sure that the only reasons I've ever heard pedophilia described as morally wrong are totally socially constructed ones.
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Pedophilia Activism -- Does Sex Harm Children?
« Reply #283 on: October 29, 2006, 11:40:57 PM »
Quote from: "qwe"
^no, because whether the child understands sex or not, i don't see how it could be harmful unless there is some other factor (e.g. the idea that 'sex is bad' being placed in the kid'ss head, the reaction of his parents and other adults to the fact that the kid has had such a relationship, the reaction to his sexual partner ('he's evil, stay away from him!'), etc.  all this is the primary cause of the harm, imo, and if society were different it wouldnt happen, and sex with children wouldn't be harmful)

i think the extreme moral controls we've placed on sex (in more ways than just the anti-pedofile meme) are silly and do harm rather than help us


so u think that a 55 year old man should be able to rip some 5 yr old apart? is this "not bad" i mean if the kid gets told that the man likes it, and that: "sure it'll damage u for life, but its OK"...then they will like it right?

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qwe

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Pedophilia Activism -- Does Sex Harm Children?
« Reply #284 on: October 30, 2006, 09:53:17 AM »
^

1. i'm not talking about people so young that they will be physically damaged

2. as erasmus has said, whether the child is damaged is the subject of debate, you're begging the question.  you didn't even respond to the main part of my text you quoted, explaining why i don't believe that it's the sex itself which harms the child

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qwe

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Pedophilia Activism -- Does Sex Harm Children?
« Reply #285 on: October 30, 2006, 09:59:49 AM »
this thread has been pretty ridiculous for the past...[edit]20 pages now.  i can understand your emotional response to the discussion, i'd get emotional if a child is harmed too.  but the whole point of this discussion is that the child might not be harmed by sex itself.  it isn't just a matter of logic vs emotion, the point is, your emotion seems to be based on faulty logic!

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Nomad

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Pedophilia Activism -- Does Sex Harm Children?
« Reply #286 on: October 30, 2006, 10:45:55 AM »
I hate to continue on the "physical" aspect, but as I don't feel like reading the last 19 pages to get a recap of what's been discussed, I may be saying something that's already been mentioned.

Even though they develop the actual capacity for childbirth at an early age, we as humans still develop slowly and don't quite finish until the late teens, early 20's.  For a young woman under the age of 18 or so to actually follow through with childbirth is risky to her, and her child's health.  The biggest thing is that hormone induced growth is nearly stopped completely, and as far as I know doesn't continue after the birthing process, leaving women psychologically crippled due to not quite finishing their development.

The other, more obvious thing I see is that women aren't done growing their "motherly stature" until later, and the actual carrying of the child and then the birthing process seems much more prone to complications to me.

However, this is all kind of beside the point, as the definition of pedophilia is the attraction to prepubescent children.  

I don't think anyone can argue that molestation of children is not damaging psychologically.  My ex still has nightmares about it on a regular basis, nearly two decades after the fact.

Sexual contact with a prepubescent child doesn't necessarily have to be violent in any way, though, so the thing in question I believe is whether children instinctually know that it is wrong, or whether they think it's wrong because we tell them it is.

Two hundred years ago, in colonial North America, it was completely customary for girls to be married and even having children by the time they were fifteen.  But, of course, as time goes on, it becomes more apparent that childbearing at a young age is dangerous.  And really, the only fool proof birth control method is just not having sex.

So it seems reasonable enough to me that keeping children from having sex at an early age, and/or keeping older folks from having sex with children is a good idea.

But suppose this hypothetical, but possible situation in the future.  Say that venereal diseases are wiped out, and we have developed a completely reversible process performed at birth where the reproductive facilities are rendered useless until later in life when they are interested in having children and whatever government agency in charge deems them suitable parents.  So sex is no longer feared, and no longer has any real physical drawbacks.

In this situation, the argument of possibly getting a child pregnant is completely negated--but is it still wrong to have sexual contact with a child, or for children to have sex?

My personal thoughts are that it would still have damaging psychological effects because of the potential lack of love in sexual act.  I don't believe it is possible for a child and an adult to have a healthy symbiotic  sexual relationship, mostly due to the fact that most children simply aren't interested in sexual contact.

But that's just my thought.
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Erasmus

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Pedophilia Activism -- Does Sex Harm Children?
« Reply #287 on: October 30, 2006, 10:53:18 AM »
I basically agree with all your points and just want to add...

Quote from: "thedigitalnomad"
My personal thoughts are that it would still have damaging psychological effects because of the potential lack of love in sexual act.


Same goes for adults.

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I don't believe it is possible for a child and an adult to have a healthy symbiotic  sexual relationship, mostly due to the fact that most children simply aren't interested in sexual contact.


Most, but certainly not all, and in your sexually-free future society, children might be raised differently so as to be fully capable of sexual attraction at a young age.  To me the important way in which adolescents' sexual attraction is different from their younger counterparts is that it overwhelms much of their other behaviors.
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Nomad

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Pedophilia Activism -- Does Sex Harm Children?
« Reply #288 on: October 30, 2006, 11:53:57 AM »
Quote from: "Erasmus"
I basically agree with all your points and just want to add...

Quote from: "thedigitalnomad"
My personal thoughts are that it would still have damaging psychological effects because of the potential lack of love in sexual act.


Same goes for adults.


Oh, absolutely.  I've had mindless sex ruin one relationship already.  I'm certainly not crazy about letting it ruin another.

Quote from: "Erasmus"
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I don't believe it is possible for a child and an adult to have a healthy symbiotic  sexual relationship, mostly due to the fact that most children simply aren't interested in sexual contact.


Most, but certainly not all, and in your sexually-free future society, children might be raised differently so as to be fully capable of sexual attraction at a young age.  To me the important way in which adolescents' sexual attraction is different from their younger counterparts is that it overwhelms much of their other behaviors.


This is definitely a possibility.  I know that I was intrigued by sex before I was an adolescent, but it wasn't nearly the all consuming urge that I've had for the last seven years or so.  >.>

But at the same time, I've never really been interested in women much older than myself.  I've always mostly been attracted to people relatively close to my age, but of course that gap has been widening as I've gotten older (hopefully stopping some time before being attracted to anything with a pulse ;P ), but I don't think I can say I've ever been attracted to anyone much younger than myself.

However, of course, a lot of it has to do with how you're raised.  My mother was seventeen when I was conceived and born, and my father was 21--however in this day and age, only 19 years later, a relationship like that is greatly, greatly looked down upon, but not nearly as much back then.  At 19 years old, I feel like a criminal being interested in a 16 year old friend of mine.  *shrug*

Although, even when trying to keep an unbiased, hypothetical viewpoint, I'm still inclined to believe that young children, mostly meaning toddlers (1-5), are not interested in sex at all.  Personally, I honestly can't think of a situation where they might be interested.  I think they certainly should be protected from potential predators.
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Erasmus

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Pedophilia Activism -- Does Sex Harm Children?
« Reply #289 on: October 30, 2006, 12:28:34 PM »
Quote from: "thedigitalnomad"
But at the same time, I've never really been interested in women much older than myself.


Indeed; nor have I.  Nor have I been interested in worship, which I consider unhealthy; and while I would advocate against it, I'm not about to go and try to make it illegal for everybody else to worship.

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Although, even when trying to keep an unbiased, hypothetical viewpoint, I'm still inclined to believe that young children, mostly meaning toddlers (1-5), are not interested in sex at all.


That seems likely to me, and I agree that all people should be protected from sexual predators, regardless of their age.
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Pedophilia Activism -- Does Sex Harm Children?
« Reply #290 on: October 30, 2006, 02:24:09 PM »
ok...unbiased...ill have a shot...

those that are interested in sex before puberty are generally girls, boys tend to fight/play in the mud, girls play with barbies and ken, and read magazines where they talk about love and sex.

this being said, is it not a social point that influences these girls to become "interested" in sex in the first place?

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Erasmus

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Pedophilia Activism -- Does Sex Harm Children?
« Reply #291 on: October 30, 2006, 02:29:09 PM »
Quote from: "woopedazz"
this being said, is it not a social point that influences these girls to become "interested" in sex in the first place?


Well, I believe that boys are probably just as interested in sex as girls, but are taught to focus on different facets of life than girls are.
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cadmium_blimp

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Pedophilia Activism -- Does Sex Harm Children?
« Reply #292 on: October 30, 2006, 02:32:28 PM »
I agree with Erasmus.  If it were a social point that caused an interest in sex, wouldn't humanity have been doomed from the beginning?

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qwe

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Pedophilia Activism -- Does Sex Harm Children?
« Reply #293 on: October 30, 2006, 06:10:55 PM »
Quote from: "woopedazz"
ok...unbiased...ill have a shot...

those that are interested in sex before puberty are generally girls, boys tend to fight/play in the mud, girls play with barbies and ken, and read magazines where they talk about love and sex.

this being said, is it not a social point that influences these girls to become "interested" in sex in the first place?


some would become curious about sex in this manner.  you can't claim it's like that for everyone.  i myself serve as a counter-example, i never knew what sex was until fifth grade, but i became sexually attracted to girls before kindergarten.. it was confusing

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cadmium_blimp

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Re: Pedophilia Activism -- Does Sex Harm Children?
« Reply #294 on: April 19, 2007, 06:38:11 PM »

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Rick_James

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Re: Pedophilia Activism -- Does Sex Harm Children?
« Reply #295 on: April 19, 2007, 06:49:22 PM »
oh man, Caddy where did you dig this old chestnut out from? It's time to offend a whole new generation of members! :D

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cadmium_blimp

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Re: Pedophilia Activism -- Does Sex Harm Children?
« Reply #296 on: April 19, 2007, 06:52:08 PM »
The search function is your frieeeeend.

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Rick_James

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Re: Pedophilia Activism -- Does Sex Harm Children?
« Reply #297 on: April 19, 2007, 07:02:14 PM »
Hard to search for something you'd forgotten had existed :D


SO what do the newer members think? :o

Re: Pedophilia Activism -- Does Sex Harm Children?
« Reply #298 on: April 19, 2007, 07:40:31 PM »

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Mrs. Peach

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Re: Pedophilia Activism -- Does Sex Harm Children?
« Reply #299 on: April 19, 2007, 07:48:42 PM »
A child has little defense against the more knowledgeable adult.  Perhaps that is what appeals to some of you?  Easy pickings?  Who cares if the rapee can't really make an informed decision as long as the raper is happy?



« Last Edit: May 04, 2007, 10:02:08 PM by Mrs. More »