Pedophilia Activism -- Does Sex Harm Children?

Quote from: Midnight on December 18, 2007, 01:20:03 PM

Quote from: cpt_bthimes on December 18, 2007, 12:14:46 PM

Quote from: flyingleaf on February 16, 2006, 09:46:08 AM

Not that they are then forgivable.  Priests should know better and be better.

why is that?  aren't they human?  or are they supposed to be hand-guided by god itself?  i don't care what beliefs they subscribe to, no one escapes the influences of evolution and one of it's results, hormones.  one would think priests should be worse with sex-related crimes, not better.  catholic priests have to take vows of chastity, and masturbation is forbidden.  with such a fucked up understanding of mammalian behavior, hormonal systems, and neurobiology, it's amazing to me that priests aren't running around gang-raping everything goat and virgin in sight.

(which i suppose would then reduce the incidence of pedophilia.  maybe i need to think that theory through some more.)

it is interesting to note that 75% of the general US population claim to be christian.  75% of the prison population claim to be christian.  meanwhile, 2% of the general population claim themselves atheist.  yet only 0.8% of the prison population claim themselves atheists.  the divorce rate among self-proclaimed christians is higher than non-christians.

it is countless stats like these which question the notion that being a christian means being moral.  (flame suit is on.  this is an ageless argument with no side conceding.  christians will never just say, "ok, ok.  we are evil.  you win."  any more than bishop would say, "ok, you got me.  i'm a filthy lying troll.")

Ever studied what is takes to become a priest? I didn't surmise so. They are held to a higher standard than the layman. They know better, and should be held accountable.

But none of that has lasting relevance to your purpose. Your Tom comment hints at an unhealthy obsession.

I call Narcberry on this one.

have you?  and in fact i have studied religion and the history of religion - christianity in paricular, quite extensively and formally.  you do not need to know the reasons why.  but it demonstrates your greatly misplaced arrogance and resulting propensity for sticking foot in mouth as you just have.  and the fact that you believe "they are held to a higher standard than the layman" or "they should know better" actually means a can of shit other than an unintentionally built-in motivation to look the other way, suggests a profound ignorance and/or credulity.

Quote from: cpt_bthimes on December 18, 2007, 12:14:46 PM

Quote from: flyingleaf on February 16, 2006, 09:46:08 AM

Not that they are then forgivable.  Priests should know better and be better.

why is that?  aren't they human?  or are they supposed to be hand-guided by god itself?  i don't care what beliefs they subscribe to, no one escapes the influences of evolution and one of it's results, hormones.  one would think priests should be worse with sex-related crimes, not better.  catholic priests have to take vows of chastity, and masturbation is forbidden.  with such a fucked up understanding of mammalian behavior, hormonal systems, and neurobiology, it's amazing to me that priests aren't running around gang-raping everything goat and virgin in sight.

(which i suppose would then reduce the incidence of pedophilia.  maybe i need to think that theory through some more.)

it is interesting to note that 75% of the general US population claim to be christian.  75% of the prison population claim to be christian.  meanwhile, 2% of the general population claim themselves atheist.  yet only 0.8% of the prison population claim themselves atheists.  the divorce rate among self-proclaimed christians is higher than non-christians.

it is countless stats like these which question the notion that being a christian means being moral.  (flame suit is on.  this is an ageless argument with no side conceding.  christians will never just say, "ok, ok.  we are evil.  you win."  any more than bishop would say, "ok, you got me.  i'm a filthy lying troll.")

Do you know the saying there aren't atheists in foxholes? I think the same applies to lots of situations. If I thought I might be gang raped every night, that might encourage me to pray.

Don't we hold higher standards to Police and Judges? I think the same would apply to someone like a priest that has dedicated his life to serving the people.

Quote from: 6strings on February 18, 2006, 05:49:40 PM

Ugh, you people and your social relativism.  Sure, we could call absolutely every belief we have into question, because we've got no real frame of reference on which we could base our definitions of "good" and "evil" (unless you're a theist, but then you'd have to prove that your religion is truth, good luck with that). 

I could ask "Why is it bad to kill people?",  "Why is it bad to steal?", "Why is it bad to sleep with my neighbor's wife?",  It's only your foolish social taboos based on the Judeo-Christian belief system that makes these things wrong.

For anything to be logically deduced to be good or bad, we have to first define good and bad, however, as soon as we do that, there are some people who will disagree with our definition, and we'll have to accept that they have their "good" and we have ours, and we have to tolerate their good because it's just as valid as ours; they're both products of social conditioning, and not based on any true, objective, scale of right or wrong.

But honestly, doesn't this kind of thinking digust you?  I'm sorry, but I find I have to believe that some things are good and some things are evil, absolutely, not simply as a result of my social conditioning.

Sorry, pedophelia is wrong.  Actually, come to think of it, I'm not at all sorry.  Pedophelia is wrong.

I have read over this thread for a long time. I decided to respond more in depth, and perhaps shed a small shingle of my usually titanium-laced internet armor, and open up a can of ass whoop on some of the opinions I see expressed in this thread.

A - Ignorance is a contagious disease.

B - I was the victim of a pedophile, from the age of 8 years, to the age of 12, when I took it upon myself to emulate Batman on illicit drugs and end the man's legs (literal fact).

This means two things:

A - I know for a fact that pedophilia and the age of consent are both almost ALWAYS diametrically opposed. How do I know this? I never gave consent. When I was eight years old, I knew not my ass, from a hole in the ground (no pun intended). Eight year old children do not understand the complex dynamics of sexuality any more than a grapefruit understands it is fruit. Simply not reality. The human brain stops physical development at the age of eight. Yes, in rare cases, puberty starts that soon for some people, and consciousness of self follows, but that is a MINUTE portion of the human race. Pedophile, by definition, means a person is sexually aroused by children, is attracted to their innocence, and thus is hard pressed (no pun intended again) to find themselves able to perform sexual acts with another adult. Satistically, these men (and women) were victimized as children themselves, and some view their predilection as revenge on the world (professional journals document these on a constant basis, pick one).

So, no, pedophilia and the age of consent are not the same things. Almost never. In Africa, it is a different culture, and paradigm shift away from western thinking. In Africa, at 10, many young women are the only woman in a household, AIDS being a prime factor in that. Those people have so many of their elders dying of AIDS, and FAMINE, and worse, that they are forced to grow up fast, and learn early. It isn't right, in my eyes, but their entire culture is completely anathema to anything known to us here in the states.

B - I have absolutely no fond memories of sodomy at the age of 8. I spent many years in therapy, and in isolated places, overcoming nightmares, cold sweats, social anxiety, and my ability to know and love myself as a human being. Emotionally, it is safe to say, I am beyond fucked up, and will never be "alrighty". Most days, I am incapable of a solid emotion. This is a result of years of "going away in my head" just to survive. In short, I feel nothing, most of the time. It is not something I wish on even my worst enemy. Some pop culture icons in literature and books typify this, and it is mistaken as badassness. It is a cold and lonely way to live your life, and I have "sexually free" dip-shits to thank for my curse.

Therefore, in closing, to those morons who have this Utopian Mindset that if we all just roll over, play dead, and let the NAMBLA people have their precious man/boy love,I say this:

When you die, remember my face.

And those studies that were mentioned in the OP, not a source was given. I call bullshit. If it is, in fact, established doctrine in the mental health field for prominent people to say such things, show me a clinical journal that explains this. It calls into question the lobby behind these ideals, and it stinks like shit.

this may explain your avatar, I reccomend you revisit that therapist.

it is interesting to note that 75% of the general US population claim to be christian.  75% of the prison population claim to be christian.  meanwhile, 2% of the general population claim themselves atheist.  yet only 0.8% of the prison population claim themselves atheists.

The divorce rate among self-proclaimed christians is higher than non-christians.

Pedophilia is an orientation, stop being retarded people.

Quote from: divito the truthist on December 29, 2007, 05:00:05 AM

Pedophilia is an orientation, stop being retarded people.

In the same way serial killing is an orientation. They can't help themselves either.

You're rights end when they infringe on the rights of others.

Quote from: Saint Raist on December 30, 2007, 01:27:46 PM

Quote from: divito the truthist on December 29, 2007, 05:00:05 AM

Pedophilia is an orientation, stop being retarded people.

In the same way serial killing is an orientation. They can't help themselves either.

You're rights end when they infringe on the rights of others.

What divito is saying is that pedophiles and child rapists are two very different things. Your bias against pedophiles is the equivalence of homophobia.

And it is not the same as Homophobia, homosexuals have no desire to commit an act that hurts someone they wish to have relations with another man. It is not even close to a comparison.

Quote

And it is not the same as Homophobia, homosexuals have no desire to commit an act that hurts someone they wish to have relations with another man. It is not even close to a comparison.

Desire is not illegal, and if it can't be helped, it is not immoral. It is only the act that is illegal or immoral. A pedophile who spends his or her entire life suppressing their desires can not be a bad person.

You have plenty of reasons to hate child rapists, but if they don't actually act on their desires, there is no reason to hate them.

Ok. I just thought that the word pedophile implied that they had acted on the impulse. If not then the debate was not very well defined. This whole debate has been on the action.

Also the article at the beginning was about how the action was non harmful. The ensuing debate obviously would be on whether there is harm and on the evil of causing that harm.

Divito's point is actually lame considering the context.

Quote

And it is not the same as Homophobia, homosexuals have no desire to commit an act that hurts someone they wish to have relations with another man. It is not even close to a comparison.

Desire is not illegal

i bet midnight would disagree.  he claims to have been raped.  (jesus, the guy claims to be a fucking expert in everything doesn't he.  if we were debating volcanoes, he would claim is brother in law erupted last week.  but not that i care if he was or wasn't.)  and by a man if i recall correctly.  so ignoring the fact that most people that sexually abuse children were abused themselves (thus increasing the odds that midnight is himself a pedophile), you could probably call him a homopedophiliacophobe - one who is afraid of male adults who like children.  or something like that.

Quote from: Midnight on December 12, 2007, 09:10:36 AM

Quote from: 6strings on February 18, 2006, 05:49:40 PM

Ugh, you people and your social relativism.  Sure, we could call absolutely every belief we have into question, because we've got no real frame of reference on which we could base our definitions of "good" and "evil" (unless you're a theist, but then you'd have to prove that your religion is truth, good luck with that). 

I could ask "Why is it bad to kill people?",  "Why is it bad to steal?", "Why is it bad to sleep with my neighbor's wife?",  It's only your foolish social taboos based on the Judeo-Christian belief system that makes these things wrong.

For anything to be logically deduced to be good or bad, we have to first define good and bad, however, as soon as we do that, there are some people who will disagree with our definition, and we'll have to accept that they have their "good" and we have ours, and we have to tolerate their good because it's just as valid as ours; they're both products of social conditioning, and not based on any true, objective, scale of right or wrong.

But honestly, doesn't this kind of thinking digust you?  I'm sorry, but I find I have to believe that some things are good and some things are evil, absolutely, not simply as a result of my social conditioning.

Sorry, pedophelia is wrong.  Actually, come to think of it, I'm not at all sorry.  Pedophelia is wrong.

I have read over this thread for a long time. I decided to respond more in depth, and perhaps shed a small shingle of my usually titanium-laced internet armor, and open up a can of ass whoop on some of the opinions I see expressed in this thread.

A - Ignorance is a contagious disease.

B - I was the victim of a pedophile, from the age of 8 years, to the age of 12, when I took it upon myself to emulate Batman on illicit drugs and end the man's legs (literal fact).

This means two things:

A - I know for a fact that pedophilia and the age of consent are both almost ALWAYS diametrically opposed. How do I know this? I never gave consent. When I was eight years old, I knew not my ass, from a hole in the ground (no pun intended). Eight year old children do not understand the complex dynamics of sexuality any more than a grapefruit understands it is fruit. Simply not reality. The human brain stops physical development at the age of eight. Yes, in rare cases, puberty starts that soon for some people, and consciousness of self follows, but that is a MINUTE portion of the human race. Pedophile, by definition, means a person is sexually aroused by children, is attracted to their innocence, and thus is hard pressed (no pun intended again) to find themselves able to perform sexual acts with another adult. Satistically, these men (and women) were victimized as children themselves, and some view their predilection as revenge on the world (professional journals document these on a constant basis, pick one).

So, no, pedophilia and the age of consent are not the same things. Almost never. In Africa, it is a different culture, and paradigm shift away from western thinking. In Africa, at 10, many young women are the only woman in a household, AIDS being a prime factor in that. Those people have so many of their elders dying of AIDS, and FAMINE, and worse, that they are forced to grow up fast, and learn early. It isn't right, in my eyes, but their entire culture is completely anathema to anything known to us here in the states.

B - I have absolutely no fond memories of sodomy at the age of 8. I spent many years in therapy, and in isolated places, overcoming nightmares, cold sweats, social anxiety, and my ability to know and love myself as a human being. Emotionally, it is safe to say, I am beyond fucked up, and will never be "alrighty". Most days, I am incapable of a solid emotion. This is a result of years of "going away in my head" just to survive. In short, I feel nothing, most of the time. It is not something I wish on even my worst enemy. Some pop culture icons in literature and books typify this, and it is mistaken as badassness. It is a cold and lonely way to live your life, and I have "sexually free" dip-shits to thank for my curse.

Therefore, in closing, to those morons who have this Utopian Mindset that if we all just roll over, play dead, and let the NAMBLA people have their precious man/boy love,I say this:

When you die, remember my face.

And those studies that were mentioned in the OP, not a source was given. I call bullshit. If it is, in fact, established doctrine in the mental health field for prominent people to say such things, show me a clinical journal that explains this. It calls into question the lobby behind these ideals, and it stinks like shit.

this may explain your avatar, I reccomend you revisit that therapist.

LOL TOUGH GUY ON THE INTERWEB

LOL TOUGH GUY ON THE INTERWEB