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GPS again.

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Dr Matrix

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Re: GPS again.
« Reply #270 on: October 20, 2008, 12:21:39 PM »
And you 'know' that GPS satellites/stratolites don't stay in position by using ground station triangulation do you? For 100% certainty, so that there isn't even the remotest, most miniscule chance that you could be mistaken?

Bollocks do you.
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Quote from: Arthur Schopenhauer
All truth passes through three stages. First, it is ridiculed. Second, it is violently opposed. Third, it is accepted as being self-evident.
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Dr Matrix

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  • In Soviet Russia, Matrix enters you!
Re: GPS again.
« Reply #271 on: October 20, 2008, 12:56:11 PM »
The point is you have made a value judgement based on the available evidence.  That doesn't mean you 'know' to 100%.  The distinction is where the conspiracy lives, so by ignoring the possibility you could be wrong you are at once being arrogant and also missing the entire point of the debate.

Plus, GPS does need ground stations, even in RET. Sorry.
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Quote from: Arthur Schopenhauer
All truth passes through three stages. First, it is ridiculed. Second, it is violently opposed. Third, it is accepted as being self-evident.
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Tom Bishop

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Re: GPS again.
« Reply #272 on: October 20, 2008, 01:15:32 PM »
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If the point of the debate is to sow dumb doubt, in the same vein as "How do you know China exists, have you ever been there?" etc etc.

If this forum was dedicated to proving whether China exists then it would be trivial to buy a discount plane ticket.

It's not so trivial to peer review NASA.
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Dr Matrix

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Re: GPS again.
« Reply #273 on: October 20, 2008, 01:27:20 PM »
Yes, you are right that the timing signals are from the GPS satellites themselves, but the fact remains that all of them constantly exchange control data with ground stations - if you wanted to set up a system to mimic 'true' GPS then it probably wouldn't look all that different.

As for 'dumb doubt', this goes a little beyond the Kantian 'well how can you be SURE?' since the technical capacity to fake GPS has existed for just as long as the ability to make a 'true' GPS system.  There are obvious ways that you can determine which is correct, but to do so without resorting to part of the GPS system itself (and thus invalidating the experiment) requires technical capabilities beyond 99.99%(ish) of people on this forum.  That is why I was sceptical of your claims to certainty.
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Quote from: Arthur Schopenhauer
All truth passes through three stages. First, it is ridiculed. Second, it is violently opposed. Third, it is accepted as being self-evident.
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Tom Bishop

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Re: GPS again.
« Reply #274 on: October 20, 2008, 02:32:53 PM »
Quote from: goldstein on October 20, 2008, 01:21:01 PM
This thread is about GPS. Read this link and then open a thread if you have any questions.

Did an unconnected third party peer review and verify NASA's claims?
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Rig Navigator

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Re: GPS again.
« Reply #275 on: October 20, 2008, 04:15:44 PM »
Quote from: Tom Bishop on October 20, 2008, 02:32:53 PM
Did an unconnected third party peer review and verify NASA's claims?

Well here is a quote from the website that was linked...

Quote
The peer reviewers

 Generally 2-3 people knowledgeable in the type of data being reviewed, but not directly connected with the project which produced it.

Looks like independent review to me.
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markjo

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Re: GPS again.
« Reply #276 on: October 20, 2008, 07:19:36 PM »
Quote from: Tom Bishop on October 20, 2008, 02:32:53 PM
Quote from: goldstein on October 20, 2008, 01:21:01 PM
This thread is about GPS. Read this link and then open a thread if you have any questions.

Did an unconnected third party peer review and verify NASA's claims?

Tom, I think your AI needs a reboot.  The military runs GPS, not NASA.
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Science is what happens when preconception meets verification.
Quote from: Robosteve
Besides, perhaps FET is a conspiracy too.
Quote from: bullhorn
It is just the way it is, you understanding it doesn't concern me.
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Tom Bishop

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Re: GPS again.
« Reply #277 on: October 21, 2008, 12:37:47 AM »
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Tom, I think your AI needs a reboot.  The military runs GPS, not NASA.

Who do you think started and runs NASA?
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Dr Matrix

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Re: GPS again.
« Reply #278 on: October 21, 2008, 02:50:34 AM »
So you're saying that high flying stratolites could not perform the same function as GPS satellites? Ignoring the problem of polar orbits, that is...
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Quote from: Arthur Schopenhauer
All truth passes through three stages. First, it is ridiculed. Second, it is violently opposed. Third, it is accepted as being self-evident.
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Dr Matrix

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  • In Soviet Russia, Matrix enters you!
Re: GPS again.
« Reply #279 on: October 21, 2008, 03:30:30 AM »
It does make the debate somewhat pointless, but one network of stratolites could use another as a reference.  The GPS stratolites could also have atomic clocks on them the way that GPS satellites do, so you wouldn't need (in principle) any more than the GPS system requires... the functionality of the system would be essentially the same, except of course for the lack of any objects on a polar orbit...
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Quote from: Arthur Schopenhauer
All truth passes through three stages. First, it is ridiculed. Second, it is violently opposed. Third, it is accepted as being self-evident.
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IHOP

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Re: GPS again.
« Reply #280 on: October 23, 2008, 10:02:53 PM »
Quote from: Tom Bishop on October 21, 2008, 12:37:47 AM
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Tom, I think your AI needs a reboot.  The military runs GPS, not NASA.

Who do you think started and runs NASA?

Eisenhower. But wait, Tom! There's no proof that Eisenhower actually signed the Act, therefore he didnt, therefore Eisenhower is not 3-dimensional, he is 2-dimensional. Careful of cracks in the floor, Ike!
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Tom Bishop

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Re: GPS again.
« Reply #281 on: October 23, 2008, 10:12:10 PM »
Quote from: IHOP on October 23, 2008, 10:02:53 PM
Eisenhower. But wait, Tom! There's no proof that Eisenhower actually signed the Act, therefore he didnt, therefore Eisenhower is not 3-dimensional, he is 2-dimensional. Careful of cracks in the floor, Ike!

Eisenhower didn't fund NASA. NASA was originally funded and operated by the Airforce.
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Winky

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Re: GPS again.
« Reply #282 on: October 24, 2008, 12:28:40 AM »

So Tom the US Air force is in on it as well. It would appear that you are the only person who isn't part of the conspiracy!
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IHOP

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Re: GPS again.
« Reply #283 on: October 24, 2008, 06:00:30 PM »
Quote from: Tom Bishop on October 23, 2008, 10:12:10 PM
Quote from: IHOP on October 23, 2008, 10:02:53 PM
Eisenhower. But wait, Tom! There's no proof that Eisenhower actually signed the Act, therefore he didnt, therefore Eisenhower is not 3-dimensional, he is 2-dimensional. Careful of cracks in the floor, Ike!

Eisenhower didn't fund NASA. NASA was originally funded and operated by the Airforce.
You're avoiding the statement Tom
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Anal leakage is the result of the relaxation of the anal sphinctor
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sideboob

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Re: GPS again.
« Reply #284 on: October 24, 2008, 06:15:39 PM »
I've worked as a surveyor myself for a year or so, using GPS.

We used GPS to provide fixed base points to conduct land surveys in various different locations, cities, countryside, and anywhere in between. We have to be very careful about GPS receiver placement in built up areas due to reflections from high buildings etc, and also in countrysides under heavily wooded areas. However, with a clear sky, the GPS units would work perfectly.

The GPS units we used actually gave us readings of numbers of satellites in the sky and their positions with bearings etc, which moved throughout the day.

This implies to me that there actually satellites in the sky. Please explain how this works without the use of satellites in giving an accurate system of measurement? Or am I in the conspiracy aswell?
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Dr Matrix

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Re: GPS again.
« Reply #285 on: October 24, 2008, 06:26:54 PM »
Quote from: Oswald Bishop on October 26, 2007, 03:26:39 PM
No. We seem to have covered everything, satellites and stratollites can perform the same function, so GPS can function on FE. I think that's about it.
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Quote from: Arthur Schopenhauer
All truth passes through three stages. First, it is ridiculed. Second, it is violently opposed. Third, it is accepted as being self-evident.
*

Tom Bishop

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Re: GPS again.
« Reply #286 on: October 24, 2008, 06:29:37 PM »
Quote from: Winky on October 24, 2008, 12:28:40 AM

So Tom the US Air force is in on it as well. It would appear that you are the only person who isn't part of the conspiracy!

Well yeah, I said that the military is in on it. They have very strong ties to NASA to the point of controlling its operations and the DoD currently claims to deploy satellites, ICBM's and other things that allegedly go into earth orbit.
« Last Edit: October 25, 2008, 01:08:03 AM by Tom Bishop »
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Johannes

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Re: GPS again.
« Reply #287 on: October 24, 2008, 07:43:57 PM »
Yeah, if NASA is corrupt the air force most certainly is corrupt as well.
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sideboob

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Re: GPS again.
« Reply #288 on: October 25, 2008, 03:04:54 AM »
Sorry... forgive me for being irrational.

What does NASA/Air Force/Anyone gain out of saying they've put satellites in the sky without actually doing it?

If you say 'money' I want hard evidence that they make money by doing it. If you say 'I'm not sure' then don't even bother posting.
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NTheGreat

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Re: GPS again.
« Reply #289 on: October 25, 2008, 03:35:48 PM »
As far as I'm aware, the GPS system can only work with satellites, as the method used by receivers to calculate their position requires the receivers to assume that they are orbiting a spherical Earth about 20,200 kilometres above it's surface. A GPS transmitter doesn't transmit it's position, it transmits where it is in it's current orbit.
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Tom Bishop

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Re: GPS again.
« Reply #290 on: October 25, 2008, 04:39:00 PM »
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Sorry... forgive me for being irrational.

What does NASA/Air Force/Anyone gain out of saying they've put satellites in the sky without actually doing it?

If you say 'money' I want hard evidence that they make money by doing it. If you say 'I'm not sure' then don't even bother.

The government gives the military many billions of dollars to put up weather satellites. By not putting up weather satellites and then getting the data from existing technologies out in the field and using predictive algorithms to fill in missing data sets, the conspirators can skim a good chunk of change.

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As far as I'm aware, the GPS system can only work with satellites

Tower and dirigible based GPS has been around much longer than "satellite" based GPS. Look up the LORAN System.
« Last Edit: October 25, 2008, 04:42:55 PM by Tom Bishop »
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markjo

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Re: GPS again.
« Reply #291 on: October 25, 2008, 07:40:46 PM »
Quote from: Tom Bishop on October 25, 2008, 04:39:00 PM
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As far as I'm aware, the GPS system can only work with satellites

Tower and dirigible based GPS has been around much longer than "satellite" based GPS. Look up the LORAN System.

Yes Tom, LORAN is a positioning system, but it's hardly global.
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Science is what happens when preconception meets verification.
Quote from: Robosteve
Besides, perhaps FET is a conspiracy too.
Quote from: bullhorn
It is just the way it is, you understanding it doesn't concern me.
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NTheGreat

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Re: GPS again.
« Reply #292 on: October 26, 2008, 05:27:19 AM »
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Tower and dirigible based GPS has been around much longer than "satellite" based GPS. Look up the LORAN System.

And? This doesn't change the fact that the GPS transmits orbital information, not a simple coordinate position.
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Rig Navigator

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Re: GPS again.
« Reply #293 on: November 10, 2008, 01:54:46 AM »
Quote from: Tom Bishop on October 25, 2008, 04:39:00 PM
The government gives the military many billions of dollars to put up weather satellites. By not putting up weather satellites and then getting the data from existing technologies out in the field and using predictive algorithms to fill in missing data sets, the conspirators can skim a good chunk of change.

Of course, weather predicting based on a spherical Earth was in place well before the advent of weather satellite.  The models for weather predicting are not "owned by the military."  Of course, even these predictive models have problems, hence why your local weatherman can't get tomorrow's weather right all of the time (some would say most of the time they can't get it right). 

But for your hypothesis to be correct, then the land based predictive model would be able to accurately tell me the location of clouds and weather out at sea in real time.  This doesn't sound very likely.


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Tower and dirigible based GPS has been around much longer than "satellite" based GPS. Look up the LORAN System.

LORAN is not GPS.  They work on completely different operating principles.  Can you provide evidence of a "dirigible based GPS" system that you say "has been around much longer?" 

So far I haven't seen anything in FE explanations of GPS that explains the signals received on my GPS at sea, much less the ones used in many cars and trucks.
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