the ice wall and acceleration

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the ice wall and acceleration
« on: March 14, 2007, 11:06:05 PM »
If the earth is in content acceleration then the ice wall would have never been able to form cause all the water on the earths surfice would have rolled off. And if the earth was in fact constantly accelerating I would never weigh the same form one minute to the next.

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TheEngineer

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Re: the ice wall and acceleration
« Reply #1 on: March 14, 2007, 11:13:09 PM »
Except that the acceleration is constant.


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Re: the ice wall and acceleration
« Reply #2 on: March 17, 2007, 01:35:34 PM »
Except it isn't constant at all, but varies from place to place on earth. The accelleration isn't exactly 9.807m/s^2 everywhere on earth, or even constant independently of distance from earth. The farther away from earth you go, the less accelleration works on other bodies to earth and vice versa. All this is completely inconsistent with a pizza flying through the universe at a constant accelleration.

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TheEngineer

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Re: the ice wall and acceleration
« Reply #3 on: March 17, 2007, 03:37:34 PM »
Except it isn't constant at all, but varies from place to place on earth. The accelleration isn't exactly 9.807m/s^2 everywhere on earth, or even constant independently of distance from earth. The farther away from earth you go, the less accelleration works on other bodies to earth and vice versa. All this is completely inconsistent with a pizza flying through the universe at a constant accelleration.
So they say.


"I haven't been wrong since 1961, when I thought I made a mistake."
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Re: the ice wall and acceleration
« Reply #4 on: March 17, 2007, 04:35:19 PM »
So they say.
http://www.mssu.edu/seg-vm/pict0665.html

Yes. So they (the scientific community) say. Would be hard to sell the Worden Gravity Meter if there weren't fluctuations.

Re: the ice wall and acceleration
« Reply #5 on: March 17, 2007, 05:32:39 PM »
So they say.
http://www.mssu.edu/seg-vm/pict0665.html

Yes. So they (the scientific community) say. Would be hard to sell the Worden Gravity Meter if there weren't fluctuations.

So that explains it all.. They say so just to sell that pointless device and make money....

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Tom Bishop

Re: the ice wall and acceleration
« Reply #6 on: March 17, 2007, 05:46:31 PM »
So they say.
http://www.mssu.edu/seg-vm/pict0665.html

Yes. So they (the scientific community) say. Would be hard to sell the Worden Gravity Meter if there weren't fluctuations.

That particular device is actually measuring the median gravitation from the Earth, Sun, Moon, and Stars. This is why the device does not display a constant gravitational reading at different locations and altitudes.

Re: the ice wall and acceleration
« Reply #7 on: March 17, 2007, 05:52:36 PM »
So that explains it all.. They say so just to sell that pointless device and make money....
I wonder what it homes in on then, that accurately mimics our idea of how gravity works. Suggestions?

That particular device is actually measuring the median gravitation from the Earth, Sun, Moon, and Stars. This is why the device does not display a constant gravitational reading at different locations and altitudes.
I don't recall claiming otherwise. But thanks for putting things in perspective on the accuracy of the machine.

Re: the ice wall and acceleration
« Reply #8 on: March 18, 2007, 09:02:00 PM »
If it is constantly accelerating, how is the air not being compacted to the point of combustion, or flowing over the edge of the flat earth and floating off into the void of space?

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dysfunction

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Re: the ice wall and acceleration
« Reply #9 on: March 19, 2007, 06:40:13 AM »
If it is constantly accelerating, how is the air not being compacted to the point of combustion, or flowing over the edge of the flat earth and floating off into the void of space?

It doesn't flow off the edge of the Earth because there is a gigantic wall of ice and rock at the edge. It isn't being compacted to the point of combustion because the acceleration isn't high enough to raise it to that kind of pressure, far short of it in fact. If the Earth accelerating at 9.8m/s/s through space could compress air to the point of combustion, so could a stationary Earth with a gravitational constant of 9.8m/s/s. Remember, the effects of a constant acceleration and a gravitational field are locally indistinguishable according to relativity.
the cake is a lie

Re: the ice wall and acceleration
« Reply #10 on: March 19, 2007, 07:48:10 AM »
The "Ice Wall" according to the FAQ is only 150' tall.  How is this tall enough to keep air in that is miles above the surface?

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SNB

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Re: the ice wall and acceleration
« Reply #11 on: March 19, 2007, 05:04:15 PM »
If it is constantly accelerating, how is the air not being compacted to the point of combustion, or flowing over the edge of the flat earth and floating off into the void of space?

It doesn't flow off the edge of the Earth because there is a gigantic wall of ice and rock at the edge. It isn't being compacted to the point of combustion because the acceleration isn't high enough to raise it to that kind of pressure, far short of it in fact. If the Earth accelerating at 9.8m/s/s through space could compress air to the point of combustion, so could a stationary Earth with a gravitational constant of 9.8m/s/s. Remember, the effects of a constant acceleration and a gravitational field are locally indistinguishable according to relativity.


Air can move upwards? WE SHOULD ADD THIS NEW DISCOVERY TO THE FAQ!

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narcberry

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Re: the ice wall and acceleration
« Reply #12 on: March 19, 2007, 05:09:06 PM »
The "Ice Wall" according to the FAQ is only 150' tall.  How is this tall enough to keep air in that is miles above the surface?

The wall doesnt have to be tall enough to prevent air from flowing over it due to the surface tension that is present in water. Since there is a level of humidity within the air, it provides a level of surface tension that keeps a cohesion that extends from the wall upwards. It may bubble out a little, but you can see how the air is kept in tact.

Re: the ice wall and acceleration
« Reply #13 on: March 19, 2007, 06:22:47 PM »
The surface tension of air?
It holds strong over nothing larger than the tip of a hypodermic needle. It will not hold the air in as the Earth accelerates.

If it is constantly accelerating, how is the air not being compacted to the point of combustion, or flowing over the edge of the flat earth and floating off into the void of space?

It doesn't flow off the edge of the Earth because there is a gigantic wall of ice and rock at the edge. It isn't being compacted to the point of combustion because the acceleration isn't high enough to raise it to that kind of pressure, far short of it in fact. If the Earth accelerating at 9.8m/s/s through space could compress air to the point of combustion, so could a stationary Earth with a gravitational constant of 9.8m/s/s. Remember, the effects of a constant acceleration and a gravitational field are locally indistinguishable according to relativity.

Not true. In a flat earth, because of that lack of an actual gravity to hold air to the earth, pressure cannot be readily relieved other than by having the air flow over the sides. However, this would not be entirely possible, because air would become trapped. Sheer inertia and acceleration would cause it to act like the compression phase of a turbojet engine and would combust the air.
In a round earth, with gravity, the air around it is held in so that none escapes, at it, through this acts like a closed system, and pressure is relieved throughout.
« Last Edit: March 19, 2007, 06:27:48 PM by Skyburn »

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narcberry

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Re: the ice wall and acceleration
« Reply #14 on: March 19, 2007, 06:26:22 PM »
Surface tension is one of the strongest forces on earth. I know it seems counter-intuitive, but this will infact hold the lighter air of the upper atmosphere in place.

Re: the ice wall and acceleration
« Reply #15 on: March 19, 2007, 06:29:15 PM »
Gases are also ever-expanding in a system they have not fully expanded into. With no gravitation to hold them to go over the edge, they will ever expand until they flow over the edge of the earth.

EDIT:
Surface tension is nothing more than polarity. Surface tension of a gas is a relatively weak thing, since few gas molecules are actually together at one time to form any sort of barrier to hold in others.
(Surface Tension in a liquid is easier to come by, because, like in water, the molecules are compacted together, with only some room to move around. They can easily link their electric fields together to created a barrier we call "surface tension."
Gases? Such a thing is rare, because the electric fields are much more spaced out and crowded hardly at all)
« Last Edit: March 19, 2007, 06:34:35 PM by Skyburn »

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narcberry

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Re: the ice wall and acceleration
« Reply #16 on: March 19, 2007, 06:33:30 PM »
Gases are also ever-expanding in a system they have not fully expanded into. With no gravitation to hold them to go over the edge, they will ever expand until they flow over the edge of the earth.

EDIT:
Surface tension is nothing more than polarity. Surface tension of a gas is a relatively weak thing, since few gas molecules are actually together at one time to form any sort of barrier to hold in others.

There is a limit, for instance we do not find heavy gases in the upper atmosphere. This is because a gas is still subject to the forces of inertia. An earth that is ever-accelerating upwards will keep the gases from reaching too deep into space, and the surface tension force to mass ratio is strong enough to hold the gasses in a literal bubble above and slightly hanging over the ice barrier.

Re: the ice wall and acceleration
« Reply #17 on: March 19, 2007, 06:37:55 PM »
Surface tension... in a gas?
Let me know if you can actually find it. Gases don't like to be compact. They like to spread out. Surface tensions? You can't hardly ever get it because the gases electric fields don't like to link together in a polar way that can actually create a surface tension. Or at least not for long - the kinetic energy of the molecules is much too great.\

The surface tension of water can't survive that force. No way can the surface tension of a gas. Water's surface tension can barely survive a paper-clip resting on it.

If the earth is ever accelerating, the forces on the gases in our atmosphere will be under ever increasing pressure. They would become more and more compact, since the pressure, in this case, is the variable.
Either:
A) The gases would slowly be compressed into the earth until they eventually combusted from being under enough pressure.
B) The air would raise in temperature with the additional kinetic force applied to them by the earth, and raise in temperature until the air itself turned into a plasma. By then, we're fried.
« Last Edit: March 19, 2007, 06:41:42 PM by Skyburn »

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narcberry

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Re: the ice wall and acceleration
« Reply #18 on: March 19, 2007, 06:53:25 PM »
Surface tension... in a gas?
Let me know if you can actually find it. Gases don't like to be compact. They like to spread out.
Gases dont like to compact? As compared to what? Like water and iron do?

Surface tensions? You can't hardly ever get it because the gases electric fields don't like to link together in a polar way that can actually create a surface tension. Or at least not for long - the kinetic energy of the molecules is much too great. The surface tension of water can't survive that force. No way can the surface tension of a gas. Water's surface tension can barely survive a paper-clip resting on it.
The surface tension is, of course, much smaller in gasses. However gasses consist of warmer molecules at smaller densities. This means it takes very little force to contain it. For example, the miles of gasses above your head only contribute to a couple of pounds of force. Thats MILES above your head. So you can see it takes little force for large amounts of gasses. If a small drop of water can hold up a paper clip, imagine a paper clip the size of Russia resting atop the earth. Thats not the negligeable force that you pretend it is.

If the earth is ever accelerating, the forces on the gases in our atmosphere will be under ever increasing pressure. They would become more and more compact, since the pressure, in this case, is the variable.
Either:
A) The gases would slowly be compressed into the earth until they eventually combusted from being under enough pressure.
B) The air would raise in temperature with the additional kinetic force applied to them by the earth, and raise in temperature until the air itself turned into a plasma. By then, we're fried.
You dont understand. The force that you call gravity is stable since the acceleration of earth is stable. This means that the force of the air compressing against earth is stable. Therefore the gas is pushed against the earth until it becomes balanced with the force of compression for that gas. It will not continue to compress to no end.

Re: the ice wall and acceleration
« Reply #19 on: March 19, 2007, 07:24:49 PM »
Gases don't like to be compact to the same degree that liquids and solids do. They do not retain any manner of surface tension because they do not form lingering polar bonds with other molecules that make up the gas. Surface tension in a gas will only stop one, maybe two molecules. One of those impacting it would break the bond and the surface tension would be once again lost.

I do understand. To accelerate something, you have to constantly apply a force to it. The earth recieves that force, and would constantly give it to the air and heat the air constantly, since the force applied to the earth is also constant.
This will result in one of two things:
1) The gas will expand, regardless of surface tension, and flow over the edge.
2) The gas will rise in temperature until it combusts/turns into plasma.

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TheEngineer

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Re: the ice wall and acceleration
« Reply #20 on: March 19, 2007, 08:00:43 PM »
Not true. In a flat earth, because of that lack of an actual gravity to hold air to the earth, pressure cannot be readily relieved other than by having the air flow over the sides. However, this would not be entirely possible, because air would become trapped. Sheer inertia and acceleration would cause it to act like the compression phase of a turbojet engine and would combust the air.
In a round earth, with gravity, the air around it is held in so that none escapes, at it, through this acts like a closed system, and pressure is relieved throughout.
Why would the pressure continue to build until 'combustion'?


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Re: the ice wall and acceleration
« Reply #21 on: March 19, 2007, 08:40:46 PM »
Combustion was the wrong word.
Pressure OR temperature would continue to build because of increased acceleration.

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TheEngineer

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Re: the ice wall and acceleration
« Reply #22 on: March 19, 2007, 08:55:03 PM »
But the acceleration never increases.


"I haven't been wrong since 1961, when I thought I made a mistake."
        -- Bob Hudson

Re: the ice wall and acceleration
« Reply #23 on: March 19, 2007, 09:00:24 PM »
You're confusing acceleration with velocity. To accelerate, a force must be applied. Since the earth, in an FE view, is constantly accelerating, there must be a constantly added force.
EDIT:
I should have said "Increased velocity" not increased acceleration.
I used the wrong words/mixed them up.
« Last Edit: March 19, 2007, 09:03:47 PM by Skyburn »

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TheEngineer

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Re: the ice wall and acceleration
« Reply #24 on: March 19, 2007, 09:05:23 PM »
You're confusing acceleration with velocity.
I am?  Please explain.
Quote
EDIT:
I should have said "Increased velocity" not increased acceleration.
I used the wrong words/mixed them up.
Air doesn't care about the velocity, only the acceleration.


"I haven't been wrong since 1961, when I thought I made a mistake."
        -- Bob Hudson

Re: the ice wall and acceleration
« Reply #25 on: March 19, 2007, 09:08:45 PM »
Because of the acceleration, and the earth pushing up on the air, the air would be given kinetic force by the earth. This would slowly increase it's temperature, so on and so forth.
We all burn and die.

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TheEngineer

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Re: the ice wall and acceleration
« Reply #26 on: March 19, 2007, 09:55:36 PM »
The air seems pretty stationary to me.


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Re: the ice wall and acceleration
« Reply #27 on: March 20, 2007, 02:29:19 AM »
The air is squashed. 101k N per square metre to be exact. That's pretty squashed whatever the shape of the Earth you believe in.

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EvilToothpaste

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Re: the ice wall and acceleration
« Reply #28 on: March 20, 2007, 06:17:40 PM »
Because of the acceleration, and the earth pushing up on the air, the air would be given kinetic force by the earth. This would slowly increase it's temperature, so on and so forth.
We all burn and die.
Thank the Flat God for blackbody radiation, then! 

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LogicalKiller

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Re: the ice wall and acceleration
« Reply #29 on: March 10, 2015, 02:53:52 PM »
The air seems pretty stationary to me.

Yeah, stationary. It moves, pal.
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