Explain the horizon

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TheEngineer

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Re: Explain the horizon
« Reply #30 on: March 15, 2007, 09:35:18 AM »
I fly all the time and have yet to witness this 'curvature'.
try staying awake and don't watch the crappy movie.
If I fell asleep, everybody on the plane would be in trouble!


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Matrixfart

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Re: Explain the horizon
« Reply #31 on: March 15, 2007, 09:48:57 AM »
I fly all the time and have yet to witness this 'curvature'.
try staying awake and don't watch the crappy movie.
If I fell asleep, everybody on the plane would be in trouble!
Do you fly a commercial jet? In that case it is easy to see the curvature of the earth.

In SpaceShipOne it is even more obvious
Why hold on to a fanatical belief when facts laughs at you?

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TheEngineer

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Re: Explain the horizon
« Reply #32 on: March 15, 2007, 09:50:47 AM »

Do you fly a commercial jet? In that case it is easy to see the curvature of the earth.

No.

Quote
In SpaceShipOne it is even more obvious
Too bad Scaled Composites is in the pocket of the government.


"I haven't been wrong since 1961, when I thought I made a mistake."
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Matrixfart

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Re: Explain the horizon
« Reply #33 on: March 15, 2007, 09:53:44 AM »

Do you fly a commercial jet? In that case it is easy to see the curvature of the earth.

No.

Yes. Yes it is.
Quote
Quote
In SpaceShipOne it is even more obvious
Too bad Scaled Composites is in the pocket of the government.
Wouldn't that suit your cause perfectly if it were. You failed to remember SSO was a private effort, designed to prove that you don't need NASA to get into space.
Why hold on to a fanatical belief when facts laughs at you?

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TheEngineer

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Re: Explain the horizon
« Reply #34 on: March 15, 2007, 10:36:03 AM »
Who do you think built SSO? 

Scaled Composites.


"I haven't been wrong since 1961, when I thought I made a mistake."
        -- Bob Hudson

Re: Explain the horizon
« Reply #35 on: March 15, 2007, 10:39:34 AM »
lol, so nasa has to photoshop ALL photos of the horizon now ? wow, that's pretty huge .. this picture clearly shows a curve in the horizon
With no south pole, there is no electromagnetism, giving us no protection from the sun's harmful radiation--we'd all be dead right now.
The ice wall, supposedly made up of antartica lies around the edge of the earth, why no one has recorded it, who knows

Re: Explain the horizon
« Reply #36 on: March 15, 2007, 11:08:02 AM »
Ask anyone who flew on Concorde. I've read lots of accounts of those passengers seeing the curve from aroun 50k feet which was the altitude Concorde flew at. No the windows were not fish-eyed.

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Matrixfart

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Re: Explain the horizon
« Reply #37 on: March 15, 2007, 11:13:04 AM »
Who do you think built SSO? 

Scaled Composites.
And Scaled Composites is a private business. What is your point?
Why hold on to a fanatical belief when facts laughs at you?

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TheEngineer

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Re: Explain the horizon
« Reply #38 on: March 15, 2007, 11:19:42 AM »
Scaled Composites is a government contractor.


"I haven't been wrong since 1961, when I thought I made a mistake."
        -- Bob Hudson

Re: Explain the horizon
« Reply #39 on: March 15, 2007, 11:21:09 AM »
The government isn't in on the conspiracy.

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Matrixfart

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Re: Explain the horizon
« Reply #40 on: March 15, 2007, 11:22:20 AM »
Scaled Composites is a government contractor.
No. They are a private business. They have contracts with Virgin and i am sure others, but they are definitely a private entity.
Why hold on to a fanatical belief when facts laughs at you?

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TheEngineer

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Re: Explain the horizon
« Reply #41 on: March 15, 2007, 11:25:35 AM »
Which is a government contractor.


"I haven't been wrong since 1961, when I thought I made a mistake."
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Matrixfart

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Re: Explain the horizon
« Reply #42 on: March 15, 2007, 11:33:19 AM »
Which is a government contractor.
What who? I just told you Scaled Composites is a private business.
Why hold on to a fanatical belief when facts laughs at you?

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TheEngineer

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Re: Explain the horizon
« Reply #43 on: March 15, 2007, 11:34:53 AM »
Do you even know what a government contractor is?


"I haven't been wrong since 1961, when I thought I made a mistake."
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Matrixfart

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Re: Explain the horizon
« Reply #44 on: March 15, 2007, 11:39:32 AM »
Do you even know what a government contractor is?
If you are a government contractor you are doing business with, or working for the government under one or more contracts.
Why hold on to a fanatical belief when facts laughs at you?

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TheEngineer

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Re: Explain the horizon
« Reply #45 on: March 15, 2007, 11:55:27 AM »
Good job.  Now, I say again, Scaled Composites is a government contractor.


"I haven't been wrong since 1961, when I thought I made a mistake."
        -- Bob Hudson

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Matrixfart

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Re: Explain the horizon
« Reply #46 on: March 15, 2007, 12:42:25 PM »
Good job.  Now, I say again, Scaled Composites is a government contractor.
Scaled Composites is a private contractor, unless you can prove it has government contracts.
Why hold on to a fanatical belief when facts laughs at you?

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Tom Bishop

Re: Explain the horizon
« Reply #47 on: March 15, 2007, 01:03:14 PM »
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Scaled Composites is a private contractor, unless you can prove it has government contracts.

Scaled Composites has private and Government contracts. That doesn't make them any less of a Government contractor, however.

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Matrixfart

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Re: Explain the horizon
« Reply #48 on: March 15, 2007, 01:06:55 PM »
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Scaled Composites is a private contractor, unless you can prove it has government contracts.

Scaled Composites has private and Government contracts. That doesn't make them any less of a Government contractor, however.
Oh? As far as I know they have not publically announced any contracts with the government. I know they have contracts elsewhere, but only because I have heard it from an article, their website or a documentary.
Why hold on to a fanatical belief when facts laughs at you?

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TheEngineer

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Re: Explain the horizon
« Reply #49 on: March 15, 2007, 01:13:59 PM »
Unlike RE'ers, I can back up claims I make.

Straight from the horse's mouth:
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The ARES, Scaled Model 151, was designed initially in response to a U.S. Army request for a Low Cost Battlefield Attack Aircraft (LCBAA). A design study was performed by Rutan Aircraft Factory in 1981 for such an aircraft. The original LCBAA design was for a pusher turboprop aircraft, of generally the same aerodynamic configuration you see here. It also was designed around a 30mm chain gun. Its mission goals were low-altitude, close air support, with long endurance, and with adequate field performance to operate from roads. Its structure and systems were simple enough to be maintained and repaired in the field.

Scaled followed up with the concept, and ultimately decided to build a demonstrator aircraft with internal funds. By the time construction started in 1986, the design had evolved to the current configuration: a single Pratt and Whitney Canada JT15D-5 turbofan engine (same as in the Beechjet / T-1A Jayhawk), and a GAU-12/U 25mm gatling gun.

The ARES first flew on February 19, 1990, with Scaled test pilot Doug Shane at the controls. Since that first flight, the ARES has flown more than 250 hours, and demonstrated all of its design performance and handling qualities goals, including departure-free handling at full aft stick. During November of 1991, under a contract from the U.S. Air Force, initial ground and flight (air-air and air-ground) tests of the GAU-12/U gun system installed in ARES were performed, with outstanding results.
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In 1989 Scaled Composites was approached by the Northrop Corporation for the structural design and fabrication of a Radar Cross Section (RCS) model of the B-2 aircraft. There was considerable concern over making a large enough RCS model to ensure accurate full scale fidelity while trying to remain within the weight and gust load limits of the measuring facility. A 4/10 scale model (with a resulting wingspan of about 70 ft) was believed to be the optimum size for accurate measurement. The model would have to be disassembled into sections for crating and shipment from the fabrication facility to the test site, and would have to be easily reassembled on site while maintaining the step and gap tolerances required for testing. The model would also require representative engine inlets and outlets and top and bottom rotator assemblies.
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Scaled also designed, developed, and tested all Raptor flight controls, including autopilot, autonomous navigation, and emergency recovery systems.

The first flight of the Raptor occurred April 27, 1993, just ten months after contract award. Funds expended at this point were only about $800,000. During its flight tests, the Raptor verified its low-altitude performance, structural integrity, and control system operations.

In 1995, the Raptor program was transferred to NASA under the Environmental Research Aircraft and Sensor Technology program as a flying testbed for technologies applicable to future high altitude UAVs (www.erast.com).
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In 1991 Scaled Composites was selected by McDonnell Douglas Aerospace for the SDIO Single Stage to Orbit demonstrator program. MDA proposed a lightweight 1/3 scale proof of concept (POC) demonstrator vehicle to validate the rocket powered vertical take off and landing concept.
Scaled was tasked with building the structural aeroshell and aerodynamic control surfaces. The DC-X aeroshell has a height of 62 feet and a maximum width of 15 feet at the base. Four large hydraulically-actuated flap sections are incorporated into the aeroshell for aerodynamic control during reentry and landing. A removable nose cone houses the emergency parachute recovery system. Also incorporated into the aeroshell was a "finger ring" used to restrain and stabilize the fuel tanks during temperature induced expansion and contraction cycles. The retractable landing gear are mounted to the aeroshell structure and all landing gear loads are reacted through the aeroshell. This structural philosophy would benefit the overall vehicle both in weight and complexity. Scaled employed low cost tooling methods for fabrication of the DC-X structure. A 1/4 fuselage section male plug was fabricated from the loft lines supplied by MDA. A single female tool was fabricated from the male plug, and the four graphite/epoxy sandwich panel sections were fabricated in the female tool. The sections were installed in an assembly fixture and bonded together using in-place graphite/epoxy laminates. The landing gear receptacles, flap mechanisms and servos were then added. The materials and structural design of the sandwich panel proved to be capable of maintaining structural integrity under the extreme conditions of the operating environment.
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Last fall under a competitive procurement program among jet engine companies, NASA selected Williams International to join NASA in a $100 million cooperative effort...Williams also revealed today it contracted with Burt Rutan's Scaled Composites organization to start with the Williams preliminary design, to conduct the V-JET II" detailed design and analysis, and to manufacture the prototype "V-JET II" (that will fly in to the Oshkosh show).


"I haven't been wrong since 1961, when I thought I made a mistake."
        -- Bob Hudson

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Matrixfart

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Re: Explain the horizon
« Reply #50 on: March 15, 2007, 01:27:55 PM »
As far as I can see three of those involved the government. The ARES, once they got to gun and flight tests were under contract from the Air force. This was however long after the prototype had been made and built. The Raptor flight control program was transferred to NASA in 1995, long after it had been designed, developed and tested by SC. In your last quote it was a competitive effort which Williams International won, and they in turn contracted SC to start with preliminary designs.

On the topic at hand though, which part of these contracts make SSO's flight pictures incorrect?
Why hold on to a fanatical belief when facts laughs at you?

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TheEngineer

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Re: Explain the horizon
« Reply #51 on: March 15, 2007, 01:39:47 PM »
It makes them quite suspect, as they are a government contractor.


"I haven't been wrong since 1961, when I thought I made a mistake."
        -- Bob Hudson

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The Communist

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Re: Explain the horizon
« Reply #52 on: March 15, 2007, 02:23:11 PM »
you talk about the observation of the earth from a human eye point of view, still though, what about ships passing through the horizon and their hulls disappearing first? does this have to do w/light refraction as well? because .. it doesn't lol

oh thats just simple illusion. Like in those tricky drawings such as:
http://mathworld.wolfram.com/images/eps-gif/CafeWallIllusion_1000.gif

That's an illusion? All I see are boxes and parallel lines
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Franc T., Planar

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Re: Explain the horizon
« Reply #53 on: March 15, 2007, 02:25:03 PM »
This image explains the so-called "horizon":

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The Communist

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Re: Explain the horizon
« Reply #54 on: March 15, 2007, 02:29:16 PM »
This image explains the so-called "horizon":



Please explain.
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Re: Explain the horizon
« Reply #55 on: March 15, 2007, 03:00:04 PM »
It makes them quite suspect, as they are a government contractor.

Do you smoke alot of weed by any chance?

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TheEngineer

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Re: Explain the horizon
« Reply #56 on: March 15, 2007, 03:08:51 PM »
Never even tried it.


"I haven't been wrong since 1961, when I thought I made a mistake."
        -- Bob Hudson

Re: Explain the horizon
« Reply #57 on: March 15, 2007, 03:09:16 PM »
Just trying to work out where your paranoia comes from.

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Matrixfart

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Re: Explain the horizon
« Reply #58 on: March 15, 2007, 04:05:29 PM »
It makes them quite suspect, as they are a government contractor.
No. Not unless you are paranoid.
Why hold on to a fanatical belief when facts laughs at you?

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TheEngineer

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Re: Explain the horizon
« Reply #59 on: March 15, 2007, 05:09:18 PM »
Paranoid or not, they still work for the government.


"I haven't been wrong since 1961, when I thought I made a mistake."
        -- Bob Hudson