Electromagnestism/radio explanation

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Loz

Electromagnestism/radio explanation
« on: March 12, 2007, 12:21:31 PM »
Firstly, I'm a serving Electrical Engineer (Artficer) in the British Royal Navy and I've spent some time at sea using/fully understanding equipment that simply would not add up if the world were not round.

Starting with navigational Radar, it is designed to only travel around 10-15 miles around the ship and at sea you CANNOT see that far. For example if we pick up a ship at say, 8-9 miles you cannot see it through high powered binochulars on the bridge wings (which can pick up targets past 10 miles if they are higher up). At sea the furthest you can see before the curvature of the horizon turns to a point where you can't see it is proven by the basic formula, d=√(13h)*1000 where h is your current height and d being the distance you can see until the horizon. So on a ship I'm stood say, 10 meters up so that means I can see a maximum of 11km, around 7miles. So why is it then that my navigational radar can pick up a target that I cannot see? Bending light? Light bouncing off the surface off the sea is very irregular, therefore I would at least see slight images of another ship right? because I don't.

Also, radar can't travel underwater more than a few inches due to massive attenuation of the radio wave, hence why sound (sonar) is used underwater.

I won't mention the electromagnetism yet, because that is quite in-depth and will take alot of time to explain (and I'll probably have to get the books out myself :( ). I'd just like an explanation for this first.

Re: Electromagnestism/radio explanation
« Reply #1 on: March 12, 2007, 12:54:01 PM »
Fake, stop lying, read FAQ, it answers all questions.
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You have performed an illegal operation. Tom Bishop will now shut down, you will lose all unsaved arguments.

Re: Electromagnestism/radio explanation
« Reply #2 on: March 12, 2007, 01:17:49 PM »
or  Earth: Not a Glowb

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Dead Kangaroo

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Re: Electromagnestism/radio explanation
« Reply #3 on: March 12, 2007, 05:55:10 PM »
Firstly, I'm a serving Electrical Engineer (Artficer) in the British Royal Navy
Your government material then.

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Tom Bishop

Re: Electromagnestism/radio explanation
« Reply #4 on: March 12, 2007, 06:18:25 PM »
If you two-bit REer's hadn't realized, the poster of this thread is making a pro Flat Earth argument.

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Dead Kangaroo

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Re: Electromagnestism/radio explanation
« Reply #5 on: March 12, 2007, 06:20:40 PM »
If you two-bit REer's hadn't realized, the poster of this thread is making a pro Flat Earth argument.
Ah but you half-bit FE wannabe shithead troll hadn't relised he stated he was a member of the british government.

Re: Electromagnestism/radio explanation
« Reply #6 on: March 12, 2007, 06:22:31 PM »
An easy explanation is that the radar on a Navy ship is very high up. Much higher than the deck.

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Dead Kangaroo

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Re: Electromagnestism/radio explanation
« Reply #7 on: March 12, 2007, 06:27:57 PM »
An easy explanation is that the radar on a Navy ship is very high up. Much higher than the deck.
Easier, the radar failled to consult the FAQ.

Re: Electromagnestism/radio explanation
« Reply #8 on: March 12, 2007, 06:57:37 PM »
If you two-bit REer's hadn't realized, the poster of this thread is making a pro Flat Earth argument.

Tom are you retarded?

Go back to basic comprehension

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Tom Bishop

Re: Electromagnestism/radio explanation
« Reply #9 on: March 12, 2007, 09:43:35 PM »
If you two-bit REer's hadn't realized, the poster of this thread is making a pro Flat Earth argument.

Tom are you retarded?

Go back to basic comprehension

Reread the original post again. Carefully.

The poster is asking why he can detect objects beyond the visible horizon if the earth is round and the earth curves away at the horizon. Radar needs direct point-to-point contact in order to bounce its electromagnetic waves off of a ship/plane.
« Last Edit: March 12, 2007, 09:45:17 PM by Tom Bishop »

Re: Electromagnestism/radio explanation
« Reply #10 on: March 12, 2007, 09:47:22 PM »
huh ? all he said was it doesn't travel underwater, and he's also saying that he cannot see the ships that are too far away to see BECAUSE they're on the curve of the earth u fucking moron
With no south pole, there is no electromagnetism, giving us no protection from the sun's harmful radiation--we'd all be dead right now.
The ice wall, supposedly made up of antartica lies around the edge of the earth, why no one has recorded it, who knows

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Tom Bishop

Re: Electromagnestism/radio explanation
« Reply #11 on: March 12, 2007, 09:55:01 PM »
huh ? all he said was it doesn't travel underwater, and he's also saying that he cannot see the ships that are too far away to see BECAUSE they're on the curve of the earth u fucking moron

Yes dumbshoe, he is saying that the radar waves cannot travel underwater.

So how can his point-to-point radar system detect objects that are supposed to be beyond the curvature of the earth, hidden beyond the bulge of the ocean?

You REers get more dimwitted every day.
« Last Edit: March 12, 2007, 09:58:15 PM by Tom Bishop »

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sokarul

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Re: Electromagnestism/radio explanation
« Reply #12 on: March 12, 2007, 09:58:53 PM »
Waves can go around corners.  So radar can too.  Since its being broad casted it can go around the curvature of the water a little ways.  Compared to airplane radar which can go hundreds of miles. 
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Re: Electromagnestism/radio explanation
« Reply #13 on: March 12, 2007, 10:12:18 PM »
Waves can go around corners.  So radar can too.  Since its being broad casted it can go around the curvature of the water a little ways.  Compared to airplane radar which can go hundreds of miles. 

HM TOM, WTF DO U HAVE TO SAY . . i KNO that radar can go around the curve because it doesn't need to be able to visibly be on the same plane height or sight in order to get readings
With no south pole, there is no electromagnetism, giving us no protection from the sun's harmful radiation--we'd all be dead right now.
The ice wall, supposedly made up of antartica lies around the edge of the earth, why no one has recorded it, who knows

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Tom Bishop

Re: Electromagnestism/radio explanation
« Reply #14 on: March 12, 2007, 10:31:09 PM »
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Waves can go around corners.
 

Only signals like AM Radio, which are bounced off the ionosphere.

You might claim that it Radar works like Bluetooth or RF, and the signals are bounced off walls and objects nearby. But, guess what, there are no walls or buildings out in the open ocean.

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So radar can too.

Radar is absolutely not bounced off the ionosphere, or any other part of the atmosphere. It doesn't work that way. It requires a Radar Line of Sight. Radar measures the distance to the reflector by measuring the time from emission of a pulse to reception, and dividing by the speed of light. Bouncing a signal off the atmosphere would cause a significant delay, resulting in a meaningless signal.

Ever notice how a radar dish on a ship is pointed horizontally instead of vertically?

AM Radio can allow for a significant delay because by bouncing the signal off the atmosphere, the broadcast can reach a wider audience. But AM Radio and similar signals are one-way only. The additional downside is that talkshow hosts need to have callers to turn down their radios when they call in because the background delay is atrocious.

« Last Edit: March 13, 2007, 09:57:50 AM by Tom Bishop »

Re: Electromagnestism/radio explanation
« Reply #15 on: March 13, 2007, 08:52:50 AM »
why is it then that my navigational radar can pick up a target that I cannot see?

If you two-bit REer's hadn't realized, the poster of this thread is making a pro Flat Earth argument.

I see. Attacking the FE modal counts as a "pro" FE argument now?

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Tom Bishop

Re: Electromagnestism/radio explanation
« Reply #16 on: March 13, 2007, 09:38:45 AM »
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I see. Attacking the FE modal counts as a "pro" FE argument now?

You'll need to read the first post again very carefully. He's attacking the RE model.

Why does his Radar Line of Sight pick up objects beyond the bulge of the ocean?

Think of the Radar on a ship like the Radar Guns police use. For it to work there needs to be direct point-to-point contact.
« Last Edit: March 13, 2007, 09:56:06 AM by Tom Bishop »

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sokarul

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Re: Electromagnestism/radio explanation
« Reply #17 on: March 13, 2007, 09:59:07 AM »
Quote
Waves can go around corners.
 

Only signals like AM Radio, which are bounced off the ionosphere.

You might claim that it Radar works like Bluetooth or RF, and the signals are bounced off walls and objects nearby. But, guess what, there are no walls or buildings out in the open ocean.

Quote
So radar can too.

Radar is absolutely not bounced off the ionosphere, or any other part of the atmosphere. It doesn't work that way. It requires a Radar Line of Sight. Radar measures the distance to the reflector by measuring the time from emission of a pulse to reception, and dividing by the speed of light. Bouncing a signal off the atmosphere would cause a significant delay, resulting in a meaningless signal.

Ever notice how a radar dish on a ship is pointed horizontally instead of vertically?

AM Radio can allow for a significant delay because by bouncing the signal off the atmosphere, the broadcast can reach a wider audience. The only downside is that talkshow hosts need to have callers to turn down their radios when they call in because the background delay is atrocious.


I siad corners not the ionosphere.   You know how you can talk to people in other rooms of your house?  The sound waves can go around the corners in your house.
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It's no slur if it's fact.

Re: Electromagnestism/radio explanation
« Reply #18 on: March 13, 2007, 11:16:06 AM »
Yes, the person is obviously trying to expose the FE conspiracy.
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Re: Electromagnestism/radio explanation
« Reply #19 on: March 13, 2007, 03:14:54 PM »
What makes radio waves so special that they are not affected by the magical optical effects that stop us seeing in the visual range beyond a certian distance? If anything this thread just points out that the whole optical illusion explanation for horizon is just a pile of wank.

Re: Electromagnestism/radio explanation
« Reply #20 on: March 14, 2007, 05:59:59 PM »
huh ? all he said was it doesn't travel underwater, and he's also saying that he cannot see the ships that are too far away to see BECAUSE they're on the curve of the earth u fucking moron

Yes dumbshoe, he is saying that the radar waves cannot travel underwater.

So how can his point-to-point radar system detect objects that are supposed to be beyond the curvature of the earth, hidden beyond the bulge of the ocean?

You REers get more dimwitted every day.
WHAT THE FUCK IS A DUMBSHOE? IS THAT SOME MADE UP WORD USED BY RETARDED OLD CRACKERS LIKE TOM? SHUT THE FUCK UP WITH YOUR FUCKING DUMBSHOE SHIT YOU FUCKING RETARD! I HOPE YOU JUMP OF A BUILDING REAL SOON YOU NONCONFORMIST DIPSHIT!

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Dioptimus Drime

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Re: Electromagnestism/radio explanation
« Reply #21 on: March 15, 2007, 10:51:48 AM »
No, seriously, though, you REers are jackasses. I don't think any one of you even read the original post. :P

No explanation for this. I can think of a possibly plausible one, but I'll reserve it because I want to see what some people come up with.

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Re: Electromagnestism/radio explanation
« Reply #22 on: March 15, 2007, 10:52:41 AM »
The explanation is that the radar is the highest point on the ship, way higher than the deck surely?

Re: Electromagnestism/radio explanation
« Reply #23 on: March 15, 2007, 01:17:10 PM »
If you two-bit REer's hadn't realized, the poster of this thread is making a pro Flat Earth argument.

Tom are you retarded?

Go back to basic comprehension

Reread the original post again. Carefully.

The poster is asking why he can detect objects beyond the visible horizon if the earth is round and the earth curves away at the horizon. Radar needs direct point-to-point contact in order to bounce its electromagnetic waves off of a ship/plane.

Radar can still be used on RE since he stated its designed to travel a distance of 10 - 15 miles far short of the horizon. Plus, as stated before, the radar is placed at a higher elevation on the ship.
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Re: Electromagnestism/radio explanation
« Reply #24 on: March 15, 2007, 02:41:08 PM »
Also, what the fuck does this have to do with the shape of the Earth?

Re: Electromagnestism/radio explanation
« Reply #25 on: March 15, 2007, 09:36:15 PM »
Also, what the fuck does this have to do with the shape of the Earth?

I, as well, am unsure how this could be a pro-FE argument.  Loz, could you please reword it so I can comprehend the message you are conveying?
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One thing we have learned is don't fuck around in Africa. It leads to bad.