To All Flat Earthers: Please give us an honest debate.

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To All Flat Earthers: Please give us an honest debate.
« on: March 11, 2007, 09:03:46 PM »
Your arguments follow these steps, not particularly in this order:

1.  Nitpicking.  Some word was used incorrectly, some particular value was mistated, a single bit of the argument is argueable and used to justify ignoring the rest.

2.  Validation.  Anything that we have not personally verified is stated as originating as coming from "The Conspiracy".  Many apologies, but there are many branches of knowledge to explore and, regrettable though it is, we do not all have the time or resources to independantly verify everything that we learn.

3.  Alternatives.  To accept some bit of science or explanation, but give your own explanation of it, without justification, i.e. gravity.  Poor, poor gravity.  Depending on the topic and what you need, it can do SO many different things.  Explained?  Pish posh.

4.  "The Truth".  You know the Earth is flat, thus things MUST be as you say.  Otherwise, the you'd be wrong, and that is obviously impossible.

Which ties into...

5.  "The Conspiracy".  No matter how grave things look, you always have Deus Ex Machina to fall back on!  Honestly, why don't you just say a wizard did it?


You'd have much better luck convincing others you weren't mad if you would just, at times, maybe when it's obvious, admit your wrong.  Or, don't even do that!  Just admit you don't know!  There can be no true discussion until you cast away the chains of absolute conviction.  Absolute conviction binds us.  We "know" we're right.  Thus, no matter what, we can't be swayed.  Evidence has no meaning.  Useful when it falls to our side, discarded when it doesn't.

Accept at least the possibility of being wrong.  Then, finally, there can be true discussion.

P.S.  It's been a while, how are things?

P.P.S.  Before the inevitable "There is no question here, how should we respond?", respond by telling me whether you feel my position are valid or not.  Do you feel that your arguments are fair, and I'm the one nitpicking?  Or why do you thing my points are wrong?

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Re: To All Flat Earthers: Please give us an honest debate.
« Reply #1 on: March 11, 2007, 09:38:53 PM »
I feel there is nothing wrong with this post (spelling or otherwise).
The folly of mistaking a paradox for a discovery, a metaphor for a proof, a torrent of verbiage for a spring of capital truths, and oneself for an oracle, is inborn in us. -Some Frenchy

Re: To All Flat Earthers: Please give us an honest debate.
« Reply #2 on: March 11, 2007, 10:19:24 PM »
1.  Nitpicking.  Some word was used incorrectly, some particular value was mistated, a single bit of the argument is argueable and used to justify ignoring the rest.
Well, I mean, you canít have a debate with a bunch of false stuff, can you? You could always restate it some other way, right? Do it in future debates.
2.  Validation.  Anything that we have not personally verified is stated as originating as coming from "The Conspiracy".  Many apologies, but there are many branches of knowledge to explore and, regrettable though it is, we do not all have the time or resources to independantly verify everything that we learn.
Not really. We state that because it comes from someone else, we should look at it skeptically, until weíve seen undeniable proof. For example, Iíve seen the sun in the sky, so I think there is light coming from an object in the sky.

In the case of RE, we have our own evidence (such as Rowbotham, and the fact that the Earth literally *looks* flat) that states the contrary to your evidence.
3.  Alternatives.  To accept some bit of science or explanation, but give your own explanation of it, without justification, i.e. gravity.  Poor, poor gravity.  Depending on the topic and what you need, it can do SO many different things.  Explained?  Pish posh.
Well, I have yet to see a person explain gravity well enough in the RE model to convince us. And anyways, weíre not saying that gravity is wrong, but that the acceleration we feel isnít gravity. Itís like a person in a spaceship; they feel ďgravityĒ but it is not so.
4.  "The Truth".  You know the Earth is flat, thus things MUST be as you say.  Otherwise, the you'd be wrong, and that is obviously impossible.
Yes, logically, if youíre right about a fundamental fact, then everything should be changed to fit it. Otherwise the undeniable truth wouldnít be true at all. Note that this is in the mind of FEírs. To REírs, all these changes look foolish, but if you truly believe in something, you just have to make it fitÖ
5.  "The Conspiracy".  No matter how grave things look, you always have Deus Ex Machina to fall back on!  Honestly, why don't you just say a wizard did it?
Because wizards donít exist. Or at least, Iíve never seen oneÖ

Much mroe plausible that NASA did it.
You'd have much better luck convincing others you weren't mad if you would just, at times, maybe when it's obvious, admit your wrong.
Instead of saying weíre wrong, I think we usually come up with other explanations once one fails, to further the scientific cause
Or, don't even do that!  Just admit you don't know!
We speculate the intricacies, so that we have a complete explanation. For example, the spotlight Sun was the only way to explain sunset/rise. This arouse from speculation, and it has proved to be a good theory and a good explanation. There may be others, but what we donít know, we speculate about until we have concrete theory to use, and change, in the future.
There can be no true discussion until you cast away the chains of absolute conviction.  Absolute conviction binds us.  We "know" we're right.  Thus, no matter what, we can't be swayed.  Evidence has no meaning.  Useful when it falls to our side, discarded when it doesn't.
Evidence has meaning. What we say is that if one thingís right, then everything else contradicting it must be wrong. This forum is based on the framework that the Earth is Flat, much like how the Bible relies on the fact that God exists.
Accept at least the possibility of being wrong.  Then, finally, there can be true discussion.
When weíre wrong, we come up with alternate explanations, as stated before, or fix previous ones. Itís tedious, but after all, itís furthering the scientific cause.
P.S.  It's been a while, how are things?
Not directed at me, I suppose, but the forums are getting bigger!  ;D
P.P.S.  Before the inevitable "There is no question here, how should we respond?", respond by telling me whether you feel my position are valid or not.  Do you feel that your arguments are fair, and I'm the one nitpicking?  Or why do you thing my points are wrong?
Your position is valid, but overall doesnít make much senseÖ Our arguments are fair enough. Both sides nitpick, of course. Your points are wrong mostly because, essentially, this whole forum builds upon one fact: that the Earth is Flat. One might call this a thought experiment, but the thing is, itís just as hard to prove that God isnít real.

Re: To All Flat Earthers: Please give us an honest debate.
« Reply #3 on: June 13, 2007, 12:10:33 PM »
bump

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divito the truthist

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Re: To All Flat Earthers: Please give us an honest debate.
« Reply #4 on: June 13, 2007, 12:31:15 PM »
Your arguments follow these steps, not particularly in this order:

There is only one FE'er on here that posts, so your thread subject should have probably just said "To Dogplatter".

Seeing as that's the way things are, the rest of the drivel you wrote was a waste of your precious time. Sorry mate.
Our existentialist, relativist, nihilist, determinist, fascist, eugenicist moderator hath returned.
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objectively good

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Ulrichomega

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Re: To All Flat Earthers: Please give us an honest debate.
« Reply #5 on: June 13, 2007, 12:34:04 PM »
1.  Nitpicking.  Some word was used incorrectly, some particular value was mistated, a single bit of the argument is argueable and used to justify ignoring the rest.
Well, I mean, you canít have a debate with a bunch of false stuff, can you? You could always restate it some other way, right? Do it in future debates.
2.  Validation.  Anything that we have not personally verified is stated as originating as coming from "The Conspiracy".  Many apologies, but there are many branches of knowledge to explore and, regrettable though it is, we do not all have the time or resources to independantly verify everything that we learn.
Not really. We state that because it comes from someone else, we should look at it skeptically, until weíve seen undeniable proof. For example, Iíve seen the sun in the sky, so I think there is light coming from an object in the sky.

In the case of RE, we have our own evidence (such as Rowbotham, and the fact that the Earth literally *looks* flat) that states the contrary to your evidence.
3.  Alternatives.  To accept some bit of science or explanation, but give your own explanation of it, without justification, i.e. gravity.  Poor, poor gravity.  Depending on the topic and what you need, it can do SO many different things.  Explained?  Pish posh.
Well, I have yet to see a person explain gravity well enough in the RE model to convince us. And anyways, weíre not saying that gravity is wrong, but that the acceleration we feel isnít gravity. Itís like a person in a spaceship; they feel ďgravityĒ but it is not so.
4.  "The Truth".  You know the Earth is flat, thus things MUST be as you say.  Otherwise, the you'd be wrong, and that is obviously impossible.
Yes, logically, if youíre right about a fundamental fact, then everything should be changed to fit it. Otherwise the undeniable truth wouldnít be true at all. Note that this is in the mind of FEírs. To REírs, all these changes look foolish, but if you truly believe in something, you just have to make it fitÖ
5.  "The Conspiracy".  No matter how grave things look, you always have Deus Ex Machina to fall back on!  Honestly, why don't you just say a wizard did it?
Because wizards donít exist. Or at least, Iíve never seen oneÖ

Much mroe plausible that NASA did it.
You'd have much better luck convincing others you weren't mad if you would just, at times, maybe when it's obvious, admit your wrong.
Instead of saying weíre wrong, I think we usually come up with other explanations once one fails, to further the scientific cause
Or, don't even do that!  Just admit you don't know!
We speculate the intricacies, so that we have a complete explanation. For example, the spotlight Sun was the only way to explain sunset/rise. This arouse from speculation, and it has proved to be a good theory and a good explanation. There may be others, but what we donít know, we speculate about until we have concrete theory to use, and change, in the future.
There can be no true discussion until you cast away the chains of absolute conviction.  Absolute conviction binds us.  We "know" we're right.  Thus, no matter what, we can't be swayed.  Evidence has no meaning.  Useful when it falls to our side, discarded when it doesn't.
Evidence has meaning. What we say is that if one thingís right, then everything else contradicting it must be wrong. This forum is based on the framework that the Earth is Flat, much like how the Bible relies on the fact that God exists.
Accept at least the possibility of being wrong.  Then, finally, there can be true discussion.
When weíre wrong, we come up with alternate explanations, as stated before, or fix previous ones. Itís tedious, but after all, itís furthering the scientific cause.
P.S.  It's been a while, how are things?
Not directed at me, I suppose, but the forums are getting bigger!  ;D
P.P.S.  Before the inevitable "There is no question here, how should we respond?", respond by telling me whether you feel my position are valid or not.  Do you feel that your arguments are fair, and I'm the one nitpicking?  Or why do you thing my points are wrong?
Your position is valid, but overall doesnít make much senseÖ Our arguments are fair enough. Both sides nitpick, of course. Your points are wrong mostly because, essentially, this whole forum builds upon one fact: that the Earth is Flat. One might call this a thought experiment, but the thing is, itís just as hard to prove that God isnít real.

1. No complaints.

2. how can you have absolute proof on a forum where there is no accepted evidence? No pictures, no outside sources, and any results that Re'ers post from experiments they have done is attacked so criticaly that it gets lost in the flow (ie, the Foucaults Pendulum that Trig (i think) did, he measured the effects of gravity at, below, and above sea level, and all the Fe'ers responded with were attacks on the way he did the experiment, whether he had tested every aspect of it, and many other nitpicky things).

3. Odd, I have seen gravity explained many a time and have it ignored on the knowledge that the graviton has not been found yet. Have you found what caused the UA yet? I have yet to see even a marginal explaination of how it operates.

4. I have to say that all of the changes that it has been going through have actually made it seem more absurd in my eyes. But yes, you are right, if you know something is right, than things must be altered to fit that fact.

5. You say that if it can't be explained than the Conspiracy did it. Evidence for this Conspiracy? No? I think it is actually much more plausible that we went into space and that NASA is an actual organization that actually does stuff.

6. No, when you are proven wrong, you hold to the wrong fact like a life preserver and no matter what evidence is against it is from the Conspiracy.

7. I fail to see how this connects to juts admitting that you don't know an answer.

8. Yous misunderstand, he said that when evidence contradicts your arguements, the Conspiracy put it out and it is useless. When evidence falls on you side of an arguement it is happily gobbled up until disproven, and than still clung to like a life preserver.

9. You still fail to see that he is saying that you just can't admit to the slightest possibility of being wrong.

10. Yes, we are getting bigger.

11. And you just can't seem to realize that this forum is a discussion area where people discuss whether FE is plausible or not. We are not here to decide whether or not the intracicies hold together, when you have proven Fe is real, than you can worry about those.

And... go!
I'm so tempted to put a scratch and sniff at the bottom of a pool and see what you do...

Avert your eyes, this is too awesome for them...

?

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Re: To All Flat Earthers: Please give us an honest debate.
« Reply #6 on: June 13, 2007, 12:48:13 PM »
lol I can't believe that bump worked.
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Rejoice not when thine enemy falleth, and let not thine heart be glad when he stumbleth.

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Colonel Gaydafi

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Re: To All Flat Earthers: Please give us an honest debate.
« Reply #7 on: June 13, 2007, 12:49:39 PM »
lol I can't believe that bump worked.

Gotta love the bumping
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there is a difference between touching a muff and putting your hand into it isn't there?

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Roundy the Truthinessist

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Re: To All Flat Earthers: Please give us an honest debate.
« Reply #8 on: June 13, 2007, 12:52:20 PM »
Especially when there's no purpose for it.  ;D
Where did you educate the biology, in toulet?

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Ulrichomega

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Re: To All Flat Earthers: Please give us an honest debate.
« Reply #9 on: June 13, 2007, 12:52:54 PM »
And, back to the topic boys.
I'm so tempted to put a scratch and sniff at the bottom of a pool and see what you do...

Avert your eyes, this is too awesome for them...

*

Colonel Gaydafi

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Re: To All Flat Earthers: Please give us an honest debate.
« Reply #10 on: June 13, 2007, 12:53:29 PM »
But the topic was booooring

I mean yeah ok, back to the really old topic boys.
Quote from: WardoggKC130FE
If Gayer doesn't remember you, you might as well do yourself a favor and become an hero.
Quote from: Raa
there is a difference between touching a muff and putting your hand into it isn't there?

?

∂G/∂x

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Re: To All Flat Earthers: Please give us an honest debate.
« Reply #11 on: June 13, 2007, 01:01:49 PM »
Dude! This thread is like...3 months ollllld!
Quote from: Tom Bishop
The universe has already expanded forever

Quote from: Proverbs 24:17
Rejoice not when thine enemy falleth, and let not thine heart be glad when he stumbleth.

*

Colonel Gaydafi

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Re: To All Flat Earthers: Please give us an honest debate.
« Reply #12 on: June 13, 2007, 01:04:11 PM »
So am I allowed to go off topic then Gin?
Quote from: WardoggKC130FE
If Gayer doesn't remember you, you might as well do yourself a favor and become an hero.
Quote from: Raa
there is a difference between touching a muff and putting your hand into it isn't there?

*

Ulrichomega

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Re: To All Flat Earthers: Please give us an honest debate.
« Reply #13 on: June 13, 2007, 01:33:19 PM »
No, you may not go off topic, and I would appreciate it if we could have a serious debate.

Weren't you supposed to be leaving?
I'm so tempted to put a scratch and sniff at the bottom of a pool and see what you do...

Avert your eyes, this is too awesome for them...

*

Colonel Gaydafi

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Re: To All Flat Earthers: Please give us an honest debate.
« Reply #14 on: June 13, 2007, 01:44:08 PM »
I changed my mind. Or I found out how to steal internet. Either way, this topic is old so feck you.
Quote from: WardoggKC130FE
If Gayer doesn't remember you, you might as well do yourself a favor and become an hero.
Quote from: Raa
there is a difference between touching a muff and putting your hand into it isn't there?

Re: To All Flat Earthers: Please give us an honest debate.
« Reply #15 on: June 13, 2007, 04:29:14 PM »
I like my MILF threads. /spam