The Flat Earth FAQ Thread

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EnragedPenguin

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The Flat Earth FAQ Thread
« Reply #60 on: March 08, 2006, 09:06:31 AM »
Quote from: "mbczion"
Well, according to the Flat Earth Society's home site:

http://www.alaska.net/%7Eclund/e_djublonskopf/Flatearthsociety.htm



I'm pretty much positive that that is a spoof site, when I first started researching the FLT that was the first site I found, and I'm almost sure it's a fake.
A different world cannot be built by indifferent people.

The Flat Earth FAQ Thread
« Reply #61 on: March 08, 2006, 09:33:21 AM »
Hi all. I just have one question. If the earth/sun/moon is at a constant movement, how come that helicopters, airplanes and such don't slam into the earth? I've learned about something called "escaping force" in my psychic class (I'm from Norway, so I'm not quite shure what the english word for it is). It is how much force and how high speed i.e. a rocket would have to escape from earths orbit.

And the sun does have a temp. at 5 780 K at the surface, and in the middle, it is 1,36 * 10^7 K.

Now, if the sun is 3000 miles above us, how come we don't get burned up?
he earth is round

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joffenz

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The Flat Earth FAQ Thread
« Reply #62 on: March 08, 2006, 09:59:03 AM »
Quote from: "Maddoc"
Hi all. I just have one question. If the earth/sun/moon is at a constant movement, how come that helicopters, airplanes and such don't slam into the earth? I've learned about something called "escaping force" in my psychic class (I'm from Norway, so I'm not quite shure what the english word for it is). It is how much force and how high speed i.e. a rocket would have to escape from earths orbit.


The same question could be asked if the Earth was round. "If gravity is pulling us down, why don't helicopters crash into the earth?"

The answer is that the helicopters produce an upwards force that keeps them from crashing. The word you are looking for could be 'upthrust', I suppose.

Flat Earthers do not believe in gravity so there is no need for anything to escape the Earth's orbit.

Quote from: "Maddoc"

And the sun does have a temp. at 5 780 K at the surface, and in the middle, it is 1,36 * 10^7 K.

Now, if the sun is 3000 miles above us, how come we don't get burned up?


That should be in a seperate thread. This thread is for finding out what the Flat Earth theory is, not finding out the problems in it.

The Flat Earth FAQ Thread
« Reply #63 on: March 08, 2006, 12:55:20 PM »
Maddoc wrote:

Quote
And the sun does have a temp. at 5 780 K at the surface, and in the middle, it is 1,36 * 10^7 K.

Now, if the sun is 3000 miles above us, how come we don't get burned up?


FE's claim that the sun has a mere diameter of 32 miles (52km), so that the heat effects on us are still the same.

It's not the temperature that matters, but how much mass there is.  If you were to stand a certain distance from a campfire that is 100 degrees Celcius and has a mass volume of X^3 and then move and stand the same distance away from another campfire that is the same temperature, but has a mass of only 0.1X^3, you would definately feel less warmth standing the same distance away from the second campfire, than the first.
Science and religion do NOT contradict one another, but are two truths." (from askmoses.com)

"Religion without science is blind, but science without religion is lame." - Albert Einstein

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Erasmus

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The Flat Earth FAQ Thread
« Reply #64 on: March 08, 2006, 01:29:09 PM »
Quote from: "mbczion"
It's not the temperature that matters, but how much mass there is.


.... because heat = mass x temperature.
Why did the chicken cross the Möbius strip?

The Flat Earth FAQ Thread
« Reply #65 on: March 09, 2006, 09:01:39 AM »
Quote from: "cheesejoff"
Quote from: "Maddoc"
Hi all. I just have one question. If the earth/sun/moon is at a constant movement, how come that helicopters, airplanes and such don't slam into the earth? I've learned about something called "escaping force" in my psychic class (I'm from Norway, so I'm not quite shure what the english word for it is). It is how much force and how high speed i.e. a rocket would have to escape from earths orbit.


The same question could be asked if the Earth was round. "If gravity is pulling us down, why don't helicopters crash into the earth?"

The answer is that the helicopters produce an upwards force that keeps them from crashing. The word you are looking for could be 'upthrust', I suppose.

Flat Earthers do not believe in gravity so there is no need for anything to escape the Earth's orbit.


Yes, but they claim that it is the world that catches up to us, not a force that keeps us down.

But another thing, if it is so that when we jump, it is the earth that cathces up to us, why is it not so that we would be pressed down, due the huge pressure, and crawl... I mean, if we shoot up a platform at a speed equal to the speed they claim the world is moving, we would be pressed downwards to the surface of the plattform...

Just my thoughts... I am way out of your league in psychics... I am mostly at this forum because I learn a lot from reading what you guys post.
he earth is round

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joffenz

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The Flat Earth FAQ Thread
« Reply #66 on: March 09, 2006, 09:10:23 AM »
Quote from: "Maddoc"

Yes, but they claim that it is the world that catches up to us, not a force that keeps us down.

But another thing, if it is so that when we jump, it is the earth that cathces up to us, why is it not so that we would be pressed down, due the huge pressure, and crawl... I mean, if we shoot up a platform at a speed equal to the speed they claim the world is moving, we would be pressed downwards to the surface of the plattform...

Just my thoughts... I am way out of your league in psychics... I am mostly at this forum because I learn a lot from reading what you guys post.


Ah, you've made a simple misunderstanding.

Yes, but the acceleration produced by gravity (9.2m/s-2) is equal to the acceleration of the Earth moving upwards (9.8m/s-2)

The reason that you feel pressure when you jump is because gravity is pulling you down. When there is no gravity, there is no pressure.

Sorry to point out your spelling, but it's "physics" not "psychics". :)

Yes there is a lot of intelligent discussion on these forums, but there are also a lot of mindless ramblings (omg! conspiracy!) But if you learn something, then it's can't be all bad.

Oh, there is another thread on gravity here:

http://www.theflatearthsociety.org/forums/viewtopic.php?t=905&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=0

The Flat Earth FAQ Thread
« Reply #67 on: March 09, 2006, 09:24:36 AM »
Quote from: "cheesejoff"
Quote from: "Maddoc"

Yes, but they claim that it is the world that catches up to us, not a force that keeps us down.

But another thing, if it is so that when we jump, it is the earth that cathces up to us, why is it not so that we would be pressed down, due the huge pressure, and crawl... I mean, if we shoot up a platform at a speed equal to the speed they claim the world is moving, we would be pressed downwards to the surface of the plattform...

Just my thoughts... I am way out of your league in psychics... I am mostly at this forum because I learn a lot from reading what you guys post.


Ah, you've made a simple misunderstanding.

Yes, but the acceleration produced by gravity (9.2m/s-2) is equal to the acceleration of the Earth moving upwards (9.8m/s-2)

The reason that you feel pressure when you jump is because gravity is pulling you down. When there is no gravity, there is no pressure.

Sorry to point out your spelling, but it's "physics" not "psychics". :)

Yes there is a lot of intelligent discussion on these forums, but there are also a lot of mindless ramblings (omg! conspiracy!) But if you learn something, then it's can't be all bad.

Oh, there is another thread on gravity here:

http://www.theflatearthsociety.org/forums/viewtopic.php?t=905&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=0


Ok, thanks. Just trying to get a better hold of physics. (Thanks for correcting me in such a polite way ;)) Now I understand why we would not be pressed down to the ground.

I told my physicsteacher about this site, and he wants me to make a 10 min pressentation about how the world can be flat and what theories that can possible back up the subject. So far, most of the evidence is "conspiracy" and such things, but it is quite interresting.
he earth is round

Re: The Flat Earth FAQ Thread
« Reply #68 on: March 09, 2006, 09:55:00 AM »
Quote from: "cheesejoff"
Q: "Why doesn't water run off the Earth?"

A: There is an (approximately 150ft) ice wall that stops water running off.

if this is true why does the water that the " ice wall" is stopping not overflow there is more than 150ft of water if piled on top of each other ?
OOYASHAKA!

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joffenz

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Re: The Flat Earth FAQ Thread
« Reply #69 on: March 09, 2006, 10:23:04 AM »
Quote from: "GoD!"
Quote from: "cheesejoff"
Q: "Why doesn't water run off the Earth?"

A: There is an (approximately 150ft) ice wall that stops water running off.

if this is true why does the water that the " ice wall" is stopping not overflow there is more than 150ft of water if piled on top of each other ?


I would imagine that the height of the ice wall is measured from the sea level, so the ice wall is 150ft above the sea. Unless somehow enough water was added to the oceans to raise it's level 150ft, which incidently would put most of the world underwater, then it wouldn't overflow.

If you mean that there is already 150ft of water, then remember that oceans are still as deep as they are on a round earth.

However, you should discuss things like that in a seperate thread. This is for finding out things, not trying to find the problems in it.

The Flat Earth FAQ Thread
« Reply #70 on: March 13, 2006, 12:03:13 AM »
Quote from: "mbczion"
Well, according to the Flat Earth Society's home site:
http://www.alaska.net/%7Eclund/e_djublonskopf/Flatearthsociety.htm

This comes up often enough that maybe it should be included in the FAQ as a spoof site.

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EnragedPenguin

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The Flat Earth FAQ Thread
« Reply #71 on: March 13, 2006, 08:24:46 AM »
Quote from: "flyingleaf"
Quote from: "mbczion"
Well, according to the Flat Earth Society's home site:
http://www.alaska.net/%7Eclund/e_djublonskopf/Flatearthsociety.htm

This comes up often enough that maybe it should be included in the FAQ as a spoof site.


done.
A different world cannot be built by indifferent people.

The Flat Earth FAQ Thread
« Reply #72 on: March 13, 2006, 10:59:03 AM »
Which FE site/s is/are for "real"?
Science and religion do NOT contradict one another, but are two truths." (from askmoses.com)

"Religion without science is blind, but science without religion is lame." - Albert Einstein

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joffenz

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The Flat Earth FAQ Thread
« Reply #73 on: March 14, 2006, 12:24:55 PM »
FAQ updated with some more commonly asked questions.

Quote from: "mbczion"
Which FE site/s is/are for "real"?


I guess we'd have to get someone to look at each individual site and see.

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6strings

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The Flat Earth FAQ Thread
« Reply #74 on: March 14, 2006, 12:33:32 PM »
Think bullhorn would go for it?  He seems to be the only real FEer who's all that active around here.

The Flat Earth FAQ Thread
« Reply #75 on: March 14, 2006, 12:47:46 PM »
Let's go bullhorn :!: , bam bam bam bam bam, Let's go bullhorn :!: bam bam bam bam bam

We've got the spirit, yes we do, we've got the spirit, how 'bout you :P
Science and religion do NOT contradict one another, but are two truths." (from askmoses.com)

"Religion without science is blind, but science without religion is lame." - Albert Einstein

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joffenz

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The Flat Earth FAQ Thread
« Reply #76 on: April 03, 2006, 05:59:19 AM »
Ok there's been no updates for a while, so how about we explain satelites by saying signals come from a radio tower and time zones by saying the sun is a point light source? I know it's not perfect but at least they'd be explanations?

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Erasmus

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The Flat Earth FAQ Thread
« Reply #77 on: April 03, 2006, 11:48:48 AM »
Quote from: "cheesejoff"
how about we explain satelites by saying signals come from a radio tower


I like....

Quote
and time zones by saying the sun is a point light source?


But it's quite obviously not a point light source...
Why did the chicken cross the Möbius strip?

The Flat Earth FAQ Thread
« Reply #78 on: April 04, 2006, 11:19:24 PM »
Quote from: "Erasmus"
Quote from: "cheesejoff"
and time zones by saying the sun is a point light source?


But it's quite obviously not a point light source...


if I understood the word(s) "point light source", I would say "could be"
he world isn't round.
The world isn't flat.
How stupid are you?
anyone should be able to see it's a cube

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Erasmus

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The Flat Earth FAQ Thread
« Reply #79 on: April 05, 2006, 01:19:03 PM »
Quote from: "EmperorNero"
Quote from: "Erasmus"
But it's quite obviously not a point light source...


if I understood the word(s) "point light source", I would say "could be"


A point light source is a glowing speck.  No real light sources are point sources, but some things -- like stars and lasers and what-not -- come very close, so we approximate them as point sources.

Things that appear to have some size -- the sun takes up an area of your visual approximately one degree (or maybe a half, or two... can't remember) in diameter -- are obviously not point sources, because they don't look anything like points.  The sun looks like a big yellow dime.  Because of this, light from the sun comes from more than one direction.  It's one of the reasons shadows' boundaries are fuzzy.

Basically, the sun *cannot* be a point light source.

-Erasmus
Why did the chicken cross the Möbius strip?

The Flat Earth FAQ Thread
« Reply #80 on: April 06, 2006, 01:29:54 AM »
Quote from: "Erasmus"
Quote from: "EmperorNero"
Quote from: "Erasmus"
But it's quite obviously not a point light source...


if I understood the word(s) "point light source", I would say "could be"


A point light source is a glowing speck.  No real light sources are point sources, but some things -- like stars and lasers and what-not -- come very close, so we approximate them as point sources.

Things that appear to have some size -- the sun takes up an area of your visual approximately one degree (or maybe a half, or two... can't remember) in diameter -- are obviously not point sources, because they don't look anything like points.  The sun looks like a big yellow dime.  Because of this, light from the sun comes from more than one direction.  It's one of the reasons shadows' boundaries are fuzzy.

Basically, the sun *cannot* be a point light source.

-Erasmus


wow, you actually could explain it in a way I think i understood. I must say, I'm impressed.

But what if everyone who has ever seen the sun is crazy in all kinds of ways. Then the sun could be a point light source right?
he world isn't round.
The world isn't flat.
How stupid are you?
anyone should be able to see it's a cube

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Erasmus

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The Flat Earth FAQ Thread
« Reply #81 on: April 06, 2006, 10:08:10 AM »
Quote from: "EmperorNero"
But what if everyone who has ever seen the sun is crazy in all kinds of ways. Then the sun could be a point light source right?


No; only if everyone who has ever seen the sun is crazy in the same way, could it be the case that the sun is really a point light source.

Observations of the sun are highly, highly regular.  No matter who looks at it, or when they look, it appears to be a big round thing, not a speck.  Any other experiment that we can come up with that involves something other than just looking at the sun (for example, looking at things that pass behind or pass in front of the sun) also indicate that the sun is a big round thing, not a speck.  Again, it doesn't matter who does the looking, or when they do it.

So if it is only a hallucination, then the true nature of the sun doesn't seem to have any affect on the rest of the universe; there seems to be no way to know it.  So it's much more useful for us to believe that it's not a hallucination; we might as well believe that the sun is not a speck, and that it really is what it looks like it is.

-Erasmus
Why did the chicken cross the Möbius strip?

The Flat Earth FAQ Thread
« Reply #82 on: April 07, 2006, 12:00:06 AM »
Quote from: "GunStar"
To answer the question of gravity at altitude.  First, the earth generates no gravity.  The reason you hit the ground again is the earth catches up to you.  Now, the moon and stars have gravity.  As you get closer to them, they exert a pull upon you.

If the Earth is constantly moving up, shouldn't the stars be getting closer daily, then?  Surely by now we would have hit them!  Hahahahahaha!  Incredible! Wow.  This website does wonders for my self-esteem! :lol:
The Earth rests on an Infinite stack of Turtles...
Stop raping the llamas!
I'm a platypus gynecologist, damn it!
"I once taught a rabbit to fly with only a string..." -Now

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joffenz

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The Flat Earth FAQ Thread
« Reply #83 on: April 07, 2006, 12:37:50 AM »
Quote from: "ItRestsOnInfiniteTurtles"
Quote from: "GunStar"
To answer the question of gravity at altitude.  First, the earth generates no gravity.  The reason you hit the ground again is the earth catches up to you.  Now, the moon and stars have gravity.  As you get closer to them, they exert a pull upon you.

If the Earth is constantly moving up, shouldn't the stars be getting closer daily, then?  Surely by now we would have hit them!  Hahahahahaha!  Incredible! Wow.  This website does wonders for my self-esteem! :lol:


Indeed, your esteem must also be boosted by the fact that the stars could be moving up as well?

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Erasmus

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The Flat Earth FAQ Thread
« Reply #84 on: April 10, 2006, 12:10:10 AM »
*bump*

Quote from: "GunStar"
To answer the question of gravity at altitude.  First, the earth generates no gravity.  The reason you hit the ground again is the earth catches up to you.  Now, the moon and stars have gravity.  As you get closer to them, they exert a pull upon you.  Very slight, but more the closer you get.


So what's the deal with this crap?  The link in the FAQ to "discussions on gravity" doesn't mention this idea, even though the FAQ includes this as a real answer.  I haven't been able to find it anywhere.

Furthermore, much as I am loath to debate this idea in a non-debate thread, but it's clearly wrong.  If it were the case, then apparent gravity would vary throughout the day as the sun goes from a position overhead (30 miles away or something) to a position overhead on the other side of the world (more like 12,000 miles away, and in a funny direction).

That is, this reasoning predicts that during the day, the sun's gravitational pull on you is going to be 160,000 times stronger ((12,000 / 300)^2) than it is during the night.  You'd probably have a negative weight; the sun should be lifting people right off the ground at incredible speeds and drawing them to their fiery graves in the heavens.

So I say we take it the hell out of the FAQ unless somebody can over evidence that it's part of FE canon.

-Erasmus
Why did the chicken cross the Möbius strip?

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Chaltier

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A few answers...
« Reply #85 on: April 10, 2006, 02:23:58 AM »
I saw some unanswered questions in the FAQ, and some that I disagree with. So, I can't say that I speak for all FEers on these, but here goes:

Q: "Why do the all the world Governments say the Earth is round?"

A: They have been duped by the mainstream "scientists."


Which leads us into a new, certainly-to-be-asked question...


Q: "Why do the almost all the scientists say the Earth is round?"

A: It's a conspiracy.


Q: "What is the motive behind this conspiracy?"

A: The exact motive is unknown. If we knew, we'd do something about it. However, it likely involves the personal loss if they admitted their mistake. Remember, if any scientist accepted that the Earth was flat, he'd be seen as some sort of looney and no longer be believed or respected by the masses due to extensive RE indoctrination.


Q: "Why are other celestial bodies round but not the Earth?"

A: Let me put it this way: Have you ever personally *seen* these "celestial bodies" in three dimensions? I think not; when you look at them, even with a telescope, they're entirely two-dimensional. Also, who said Earth was similar to these other "celestial bodies...?"


Q: "What about satellites? How do they orbit the Earth?"

A: They don't. The best they could possibly do is go in a circular pattern around the centre of the Earth, which, I suppose, they could do, and this could create a sort of "orbit" effect.


Q: "If the Earth was indeed a flat disc, wouldn't the whole planet crunch up into itself and eventually transform into a ball?"

A: Perhaps I'm not speaking for all FEers on this one, but I believe the Earth generates a gravitational pull, but this only pulls things downward, not inward. (ie, a gravitational pull generating from a flat plane somewhere within the Earth, most likely at the bottom, pulling us all toward it.) I do not believe in the rapid upward motion theory, but, in the end, it would cause the same effect. (Erasmus mentioned the sun with regards to the Rapid Upward Motion theory. Remember that the whole reason behind that theory is the non-existence of gravity. Therefore, I would presume the sun has none, either.)

Q: "How does global warming affect the ice wall?"

A: Global Warming doesn't happen. It and it's counter-theory (Global Cooling) are effects that cancel each other out. Remember, these "greenhouse gasse" can reflect heat back out into space as well as keep it on Earth. Yes, there are recorded rises in temperature, but the only records we have go back, at most, around 150 years. This is very likely an occurence that happens every [x>150] years, that's happened before (perhaps many times), and that the Earth has thus survived before. (Also an RE theory, for the record.) There's no worry there.

Q: "If the world was really flat, what would happen if you jump off the disc's edge?"

A: You would fall off the edge of the Earth, and into space. You'd probably get caught in the ether somewhere, since there's no force pulling or pushing on you out there.


Q: "Why doesn't water run off the Earth?"

A: There is a vast ice wall (some know it as "Antarctica") that keeps the water where it is. This also explains why you can find a vast plane of ice when you travel south (North being toward the centre of the Earth).


Q: "How do volcanic eruptions happen?"

A: The Earth is thick enough to have a core of molten lava. Once there's too much of it in too confined a space, it finds it's way out, just like the water will come out of a full bottle if you squeeze it too hard (granted, this makes the space smaller, rather than increasing the contents, but the effect is the same).


Q: "When travelling in a straight direction, you will always reach the same point on the globe from where you started. How can this happen if the world is flat?"

A: You need to have evidence for this to be true. Also, define "straight." Remember, the northern point on the compass is, under most circumstances (unless near the centre or deep in the ice wall), pointing toward the centre of the Earth. Therefore, if you follow your compass due east or due west, ending up at the same point you started from, you've just gone around the world in a circle.


--Chal

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joffenz

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Re: A few answers...
« Reply #86 on: April 10, 2006, 04:54:18 AM »
Quote from: "Erasmus"
So what's the deal with this crap?  The link in the FAQ to "discussions on gravity" doesn't mention this idea, even though the FAQ includes this as a real answer.  I haven't been able to find it anywhere...

So I say we take it the hell out of the FAQ unless somebody can over evidence that it's part of FE canon.


Hm...I think the link is just pointing to the wrong thread then.

I think we should start a new thread to discuss that answer. If no solution is found, remove it from the FAQ.

Quote from: "Chaltier"
I saw some unanswered questions in the FAQ, and some that I disagree with. So, I can't say that I speak for all FEers on these, but here goes...


Thanks for that Chaltier, I've added most of your answers. For some questions I've had to put yours in as an alternative to the conventional answers given.

The one about the "plane underneath the Earth" has been discussed before but IIRC no complete working model was created, so I've put it in as a general "gravity is caused by external sources"  explanation.

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Chaltier

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Re: A few answers...
« Reply #87 on: April 10, 2006, 11:12:56 AM »
Quote from: "cheesejoff"
Thanks for that Chaltier


No problem. ^^

And, looking back at those, it seems I missed one:

Q: "What about time zones?"

A: Times zones exist so that everyone's clock will be at 12:00 around the time the sun is approximately directly overhead. All that's required for time zones is that the sun not be directly above everywhere at the same time, which we don't believe.

The Flat Earth FAQ Thread
« Reply #88 on: April 10, 2006, 01:16:53 PM »
Chaltier wrote:

Quote
Q: "If the world was really flat, what would happen if you jump off the disc's edge?"

A: You would fall off the edge of the Earth, and into space. You'd probably get caught in the ether somewhere, since there's no force pulling or pushing on you out there.


Does this mean that Q-bert was a FE'r? :twisted:

Oh, I just had to....ROTFL :lol:
Science and religion do NOT contradict one another, but are two truths." (from askmoses.com)

"Religion without science is blind, but science without religion is lame." - Albert Einstein

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Erasmus

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The Flat Earth FAQ Thread
« Reply #89 on: April 20, 2006, 11:33:07 AM »
On notation: I'm thinking we should distinguish between answers that are supported by some documentation, and answers that we on these fora come up with ourselves.  Maybe

A*: This is Samuel Rowbotham's answer
A+: This is the Bible's answer
A?: This is an answer proposed and not yet refuted on the FES website.

Thoughts?

-Erasmus
Why did the chicken cross the Möbius strip?