self fulfilling prophecy???

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Re: self fulfilling prophecy???
« Reply #30 on: March 09, 2007, 12:54:09 AM »
Well, how about that light bending thing?

the light bending was in conjunction with FE's optical illusions theories

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TheEngineer

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Re: self fulfilling prophecy???
« Reply #31 on: March 09, 2007, 12:57:56 AM »
How about it bending in space, which you claimed was not possible?


"I haven't been wrong since 1961, when I thought I made a mistake."
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Re: self fulfilling prophecy???
« Reply #32 on: March 09, 2007, 12:59:54 AM »
How about it bending in space, which you claimed was not possible?

how can light bend when theres nothin to cause it bend

btw, im talking about nothingness space. ie nothin there

if it's an empty space, there's no physical reason why the light should bend

Re: self fulfilling prophecy???
« Reply #33 on: March 09, 2007, 01:01:03 AM »
Gravitation.

light being energy .. cannot be affected by gravitation ? i mean wtf lol light HAS to hit an object in order to bend, space is NOT an object, it's an empty vacuum, surely you kno this . .
With no south pole, there is no electromagnetism, giving us no protection from the sun's harmful radiation--we'd all be dead right now.
The ice wall, supposedly made up of antartica lies around the edge of the earth, why no one has recorded it, who knows

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TheEngineer

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Re: self fulfilling prophecy???
« Reply #34 on: March 09, 2007, 01:01:58 AM »
Gravitation.

light being energy .. cannot be affected by gravitation ?
Sure it can.


"I haven't been wrong since 1961, when I thought I made a mistake."
        -- Bob Hudson

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EvilToothpaste

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Re: self fulfilling prophecy???
« Reply #35 on: March 09, 2007, 01:02:35 AM »
the gravity and oxygen quote you picked out is a logical conclusion. and theory. as i state, theories arn't always true but it uses evidence of real physics to draw a conclusion on support for RE
And I used your same evidence as well as real physics to show your experimental conclusion to be moot. 

i stated it's a stronger basis. not that it was the only one :P
I do not think it is a stronger basis. 

the non sequitor quote you so called is known as an assumption. if you believe one planet to be flat then it is very probable for them all to be that way
I reject your assumption.  "You might as well ask, "How is it that snakes do not have legs, but dogs and cats do?"  Snakes are not dogs or cats.  The Earth is not a star or the moon.  It doesn't follow that each must have exactly the properties of the others, and no more."

and how do you suggest this magnetic field is created?????
Magnetic material within the Earth. 

ooo and back to the oxygen, yes O2 is heavier but have you forgotten about o3???? the ozone???? that should be heavier yet it's way up there
Ozone is heavier.  It's concentration is higher 'way up there' because it is created in the upper atmosphere. 

Re: self fulfilling prophecy???
« Reply #36 on: March 09, 2007, 01:02:39 AM »
With no south pole, there is no electromagnetism, giving us no protection from the sun's harmful radiation--we'd all be dead right now.
The ice wall, supposedly made up of antartica lies around the edge of the earth, why no one has recorded it, who knows

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TheEngineer

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Re: self fulfilling prophecy???
« Reply #37 on: March 09, 2007, 01:06:42 AM »
By the warping of space.


"I haven't been wrong since 1961, when I thought I made a mistake."
        -- Bob Hudson

Re: self fulfilling prophecy???
« Reply #38 on: March 09, 2007, 01:08:40 AM »
By the warping of space.

the warping ? in what theories of yours implies that the space warps, and wouldn't that imply that space is some kind of object, because in order to "warp" you need some kind of dimension
With no south pole, there is no electromagnetism, giving us no protection from the sun's harmful radiation--we'd all be dead right now.
The ice wall, supposedly made up of antartica lies around the edge of the earth, why no one has recorded it, who knows

*

TheEngineer

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Re: self fulfilling prophecy???
« Reply #39 on: March 09, 2007, 01:12:38 AM »
the warping ? in what theories of yours implies that the space warps, and wouldn't that imply that space is some kind of object, because in order to "warp" you need some kind of dimension
General Relativity.  You know, the one Einstein came up with.


"I haven't been wrong since 1961, when I thought I made a mistake."
        -- Bob Hudson

Re: self fulfilling prophecy???
« Reply #40 on: March 09, 2007, 01:14:19 AM »
the warping ? in what theories of yours implies that the space warps, and wouldn't that imply that space is some kind of object, because in order to "warp" you need some kind of dimension
General Relativity.  You know, the one Einstein came up with.

but this explains why light bends through space ?
With no south pole, there is no electromagnetism, giving us no protection from the sun's harmful radiation--we'd all be dead right now.
The ice wall, supposedly made up of antartica lies around the edge of the earth, why no one has recorded it, who knows

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TheEngineer

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Re: self fulfilling prophecy???
« Reply #41 on: March 09, 2007, 01:17:56 AM »
but this explains why light bends through space ?
Yep, it sure does.


"I haven't been wrong since 1961, when I thought I made a mistake."
        -- Bob Hudson

Re: self fulfilling prophecy???
« Reply #42 on: March 09, 2007, 01:19:10 AM »
but this explains why light bends through space ?
Yep, it sure does.

can you enlighten me ? obviously you know more about this than i do, please explain yourself at least
With no south pole, there is no electromagnetism, giving us no protection from the sun's harmful radiation--we'd all be dead right now.
The ice wall, supposedly made up of antartica lies around the edge of the earth, why no one has recorded it, who knows

*

TheEngineer

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Re: self fulfilling prophecy???
« Reply #43 on: March 09, 2007, 01:23:48 AM »
According to GR, mass warps space around it.  Our movement though this curved space is what gives us the sensation of 'gravity'.  As light follows this curve in space, it will be bent around objects.


"I haven't been wrong since 1961, when I thought I made a mistake."
        -- Bob Hudson

Re: self fulfilling prophecy???
« Reply #44 on: March 09, 2007, 01:26:42 AM »
According to GR, mass warps space around it.  Our movement though this curved space is what gives us the sensation of 'gravity'.  As light follows this curve in space, it will be bent around objects.

light doesn't follow a curve tho, it would cut straight through, less it hit an object

also our sensation of gravity comes from the earth's rotation and mass
With no south pole, there is no electromagnetism, giving us no protection from the sun's harmful radiation--we'd all be dead right now.
The ice wall, supposedly made up of antartica lies around the edge of the earth, why no one has recorded it, who knows

*

TheEngineer

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Re: self fulfilling prophecy???
« Reply #45 on: March 09, 2007, 01:30:26 AM »
Look up General Relativity, then look up gravitational lensing.


"I haven't been wrong since 1961, when I thought I made a mistake."
        -- Bob Hudson

Re: self fulfilling prophecy???
« Reply #46 on: March 09, 2007, 08:39:46 AM »
Yea, unfortunatly not all FE supporters are outright stupid.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bend_light For reference.

However they still can't explain why exactly this magically causes all of these optical illusions.  They can only state a theory the could work in their favour, and then think that they have proved their point without any actual evidence.
And btw, I thought that you FE guys didn't believe in gravity (in the traditional sense anyways).  Care to enlighten me?  Is it the gravity from the shadow object that is warping the my light rays, because I was pretty sure that the Earth didn't have any gravity according to you.  Gravity in this sense refering to the force of attraction between objects.  Also as an add on question, has anybody proposed any theories as to why exactly the Earth has no gravity, yet the stars and the moons do? ... So easy to punch holes right through all of your theories.

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TheEngineer

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Re: self fulfilling prophecy???
« Reply #47 on: March 09, 2007, 08:46:51 AM »
Yea, unfortunatly not all FE supporters are outright stupid.
Unfortunately for you.

Quote
And btw, I thought that you FE guys didn't believe in gravity (in the traditional sense anyways).  Care to enlighten me?  Is it the gravity from the shadow object that is warping the my light rays, because I was pretty sure that the Earth didn't have any gravity according to you.  Gravity in this sense refering to the force of attraction between objects.  Also as an add on question, has anybody proposed any theories as to why exactly the Earth has no gravity, yet the stars and the moons do? ... So easy to punch holes right through all of your theories.
Gravity does not exist as a force anywhere.  It's acceleration.


"I haven't been wrong since 1961, when I thought I made a mistake."
        -- Bob Hudson

Re: self fulfilling prophecy???
« Reply #48 on: March 09, 2007, 09:17:38 AM »
Yes, the acceleration between objects that is a fundamental property of the Universe.  Also called "Gravity".  Which FE theory is pretty unclear on, you say that there is no gravity, then go on to state that the stars and moon have gravity, but the Earth does not.  Then you use the concept of gravity (In the traditional sense) to fill the holes in your theory, despite previously showing that you belive that there is no gravity (again. In the traditional sense).

Gravity being used as the force between all matter, not this lovely selective gravity that FE seems to use.

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TheEngineer

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Re: self fulfilling prophecy???
« Reply #49 on: March 09, 2007, 09:27:21 AM »
Gravity being used as the force between all matter.
That gravity does not exist.


"I haven't been wrong since 1961, when I thought I made a mistake."
        -- Bob Hudson

Re: self fulfilling prophecy???
« Reply #50 on: March 09, 2007, 09:38:09 AM »
TheEngineer is as predictable as the Lunar Eclipse on a round Earth, and as selective in his quoting as gravity is in FE theory.

Re: self fulfilling prophecy???
« Reply #51 on: March 09, 2007, 10:54:18 AM »
That gravity does not exist.
Then explain the results of the Cavendish Experiment, which showed an attractive force between masses which was directly proportional to the product of the masses, and inversely proportional to the square of the distance between their centres? (The mechanism behind this force is irrelevant to the question. The fact remains that the force has been observed, and the experiment is easily re-created)

The conclusion reached by the vast majority of the scientific community is that masses attract each other, what does Flat Earth have to say?

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Tom Bishop

Re: self fulfilling prophecy???
« Reply #52 on: March 09, 2007, 11:03:01 AM »
Quote
Then explain the results of the Cavendish Experiment, which showed an attractive force between masses which was directly proportional to the product of the masses, and inversely proportional to the square of the distance between their centres? (The mechanism behind this force is irrelevant to the question. The fact remains that the force has been observed, and the experiment is easily re-created)

The conclusion reached by the vast majority of the scientific community is that masses attract each other, what does Flat Earth have to say?

This is perfectly in tune with gravitation through acceleration. See the Equivalence Principle.

Re: self fulfilling prophecy???
« Reply #53 on: March 09, 2007, 11:07:45 AM »
I love how on the one hand FEers say "lol mass causes acceleration not gravity" which may well be the case, yet on the other hand claim that Earth (a large mass) does not produce it's own acceleration due to this mass. You idiots.

Re: self fulfilling prophecy???
« Reply #54 on: March 09, 2007, 11:14:07 AM »
Woah, nice job.
I'm only a senior in high school, now I really want a psychology degree instead of following through with my Physics Degree.

well, in my spare time im a computer programmer and website programmer so logic falls into those

FE is extremely flawed when considered outside the box

All i've done is taken some every day things, and use it to prove planetary physics. oxygen, other planets, even allowing ppl to test for themselves.

Do you know what really kicks FE in the ass???? I'm failing in University. so technically I'm not THAT smart lol

If you can make it to a University, you are plenty smart.  I'm still trying to find a suitable University that offers a Masters in AstroPhysics that isn't 10 states away.
-.-

Me too. Sept I ain't a hippy, am a punk kid :o
"Oh, judge, your damn laws: the good people don't need them and the bad people don't follow them so what good are they?"

It is forbidden to kill; therefore all murderers are punished unless they kill in large numbers and to the sound of trumpets

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Tom Bishop

Re: self fulfilling prophecy???
« Reply #55 on: March 09, 2007, 12:04:59 PM »
I love how on the one hand FEers say "lol mass causes acceleration not gravity" which may well be the case, yet on the other hand claim that Earth (a large mass) does not produce it's own acceleration due to this mass. You idiots.

Actually, you're just an idiot who needs to take a Reading Comprehension class at your local Community College. You should also look into retaking a few science classes since it's obvious that you can't grasp basic physics.
« Last Edit: March 09, 2007, 12:07:02 PM by Tom Bishop »

Re: self fulfilling prophecy???
« Reply #56 on: March 09, 2007, 12:19:44 PM »
This is perfectly in tune with gravitation through acceleration. See the Equivalence Principle.
I said in that very quote that the means by which the gravitational field comes into existance are irrelevant. The fact remains that the field strength is directly proportional to mass, and the field is omnidirectional.

Now, let me do something with this theory that you refuse to do - Apply concrete numbers.


Now, you do not claim that no variance in Gravitational acceleration is ever observed. You postulate that the difference with altitude is caused by the gravitational pull of the Sun and Moon. Now, ignoring for a moment that this model would cause the observed variance to itself be variable with A) Seasons and B) The time of day, (as both of these would varry the distances between the sun and moon, and thus the attractive forces they exert) We will determine what mass the sun requires to cancel 0.01 N / kg of force on an object at the peak of Mount Everest (8.85 km above sea level) and from there examine the variance in measured gravity which would result from this mass.

So, let us suppose it is noon on the day that the sun passes directly over the peak. It is at this time that the Sun would exert greatest force on an object there. (Never mind that Everest is North of the Tropic of cancer, so the sun would never come directly overhead)

The FE sun has an altitude of 3000 Miles, or 4827m. (Odly enough, this would mean that the peak of Mt Everest is actualy 4.0 km ABOVE the FE Sun...)

Let's slide that litle contradiction under the carpet for a moment and go ahead with saying that the Sun is 4.8km away.

Supposing a unit-mass (m1) on the peak of the mountain, experiencing 0.01N of force:

F = Gm1m2 / r2

(0.01) = (6.67E-11)(1)m2 / 48002

(0.01)(2.304E9) = (6.67E-11)m2

m2 = (2.304E7)/(6.67E-11)

m2 = 3.454E17 kg

Now, given the dimentions of the Flat Earth, the altitude/position of the Sun's supposed path over it, and the mass which I have just found, you should be able to predict the variance in measured gravitational force at any altitude, position, time of day, and date on the Surface of Flat Earth by way of The law of gravitation, and Geometry.


[Note: if someone would like to pull up some numbers on the real-world observations of Gravity vs. Altitude, feel free to post them here and I will revise the mass of the FE Sun. The assumptions I used in genreating this number render the sun's mass lower than where it should be in order to fit said observations with a FE sun overhead at local noon.

Anyone whowould like to further explore the consequences of this mass of the sun being forced into a 30-mile sphere, go right ahead.

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TheEngineer

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Re: self fulfilling prophecy???
« Reply #57 on: March 09, 2007, 12:35:00 PM »
The fact remains that the force has been observed, and the experiment is easily re-created)
That force has never been observed.  Gravity is a pseudo force.  It's actually acceleration.


"I haven't been wrong since 1961, when I thought I made a mistake."
        -- Bob Hudson

Re: self fulfilling prophecy???
« Reply #58 on: March 09, 2007, 12:39:44 PM »
That force has never been observed.  Gravity is a pseudo force.  It's actually acceleration.

Accelerations are caused by forces. See Newton's First/Second law.

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TheEngineer

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Re: self fulfilling prophecy???
« Reply #59 on: March 09, 2007, 12:40:56 PM »

The FE sun has an altitude of 3000 Miles, or 4827m. (Odly enough, this would mean that the peak of Mt Everest is actualy 4.0 km ABOVE the FE Sun...)
Think about that for a minute.


"I haven't been wrong since 1961, when I thought I made a mistake."
        -- Bob Hudson