Nuclear Power Exaggerated

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Re: Nuclear Weapons Do Not Exist
« Reply #720 on: April 29, 2014, 07:58:36 AM »
It's scary though because what it took to understand some of the lies.  People in general are lost.  They see what they are trained to see.  How the hell do we wake up the world?

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sceptimatic

  • Flat Earth Scientist
  • 30061
Re: Nuclear Weapons Do Not Exist
« Reply #721 on: April 29, 2014, 08:59:20 AM »
It's scary though because what it took to understand some of the lies.  People in general are lost.  They see what they are trained to see.  How the hell do we wake up the world?
We can't. Only the people themselves can do that by all somehow starting to think for themselves.
The major problem to that is for every action, there is an equal and opposite reaction, where thinking for yourself comes in. Because those at the top are always 10 steps ahead and our reactions are gauged on everything.
They start an action, gauge the reaction, then bring in another action to couneract that.

In other words, they create a problem, gauge the reaction, then propose a solution to put the masses back to sleep.

For instance: Security risk. Suicide bombers or terrorists gaining easy access to your country and causing mayhem.
They create that problem, then gauge the reaction, which is natural fear of the people, who are wanting a solution to the problem.
No problem for those at the top. They solve your fears by telling you that we are going to war on those responsible, then you are xrayed, beeped, tagged, passports chipped and every other thing at airports.
You have cameras everywhere with more to come. They are basically telling you that your entire life will be logged and you, owned by them. You will be tracked by every footstep, soon.
They are in the early stages of this and it will get a lot worse...but the people beg for it. They are asking to have their open prison, they call a country to be on lockdown......begging for it and happy to do that.
Who said caged hamsters must be pissed off? They must look at us and think...."I wouldn't have their life." lol

We are basically guineapigs, rife for testing and easily tagged. They can make you feel as comnfortable or an uncomfortable as they see fit in their game,
The game is to make you comfortable in one sense whilst shit scared in another.

They make you feel safe, as I said above: security!

They then tell you that the US and Russia are arguing and tell you about nukes. This gets people worried.
Not worried enough though, so they saturate the TV with CANCER.
"Have you had a cough for 3 weeks or more?...go to your doctor , you could have lung cancer."
Lump in your breast? go to your doctor, it's probably breast cancer.
Feel your balls. Do you feel a lump? It could be testicular cancer.
Having trouble peeing? It could be prostate cancer.
Blood in urine or stool. It could be bladder or colon cancer.
1 in 3 people will get cancer.
Cornflakes may cause cancer.
Fat people are blah blah more likely to get cancer.
Smoking just one extra cigarette increases your chances of lung cancer by 20%.
Smoking one cigarette makes you lose so many hours from your life.
Eating too much red meat causes cancer.
Get your breasts crushed when we tell you. It's called a mamagram and can catch cancer before it starts.......what they mean is...crushing your breasts can cause it.

Flu epidemic. swine flu, normal flu, h1n1 virus, aids, hiv, rabies, tuberculosis, small pox , ebola, etc, etc, etc.

If you have diabetes, then get this flu jab...it does absolutely nothing other than gives you the flu or whatever virus and makes you feel like crap.
Get this every year because you aren't a guineapig, we are looking after you making sure you don't become a burden on society by becoming a burdening pensioner or a diabetic pensioner, so we will keep injecting until we get a happy medium where deaths don't just happen too quickly yet your life expecancy will be between 60 and 70 with the odd ones living beyond.

Have you ever wondered why high ranking people live until they are 100 or there abouts?
Have a think about it. Think of as many people as you can where there lifestyles re littered with drugs/drink or whatever and yet they are living into real old age whilst the rest of the population drops down like flies.
They tell you that people are living longer and you believe it. Why?
I see just as many deaths in their 40's to 50's as I do for people in their 60's and their 70's, etc. I kid you not.
Go and check your obituaries from now and do it for 1 year. You will get a shock, I promise you.

All this  scare stuff is bollocks and designed to scare you into submission so you become reliant on pharmaceutical industries..MONEYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYY.


Not only money though. That's just to keep the puppets happy. Those at the top can print their own money. It's worthless to them. They don't pay for their material things, it's on tap.

POWER over the people. You are slaves to them and they love it, because they can control you easily and make you do what they want by using their puppets to make you do it.
They are playing board games with your lives. You are a pawn in their strategic chess game or the infantry in their floor full of set out plastic soldiers that they throw missiles at, then send the puppets out to play it out for real.
You are a skin and bone toy for them to pick off at will, whenever they please.
Nothing in this world happens by accident. It's all by design.

They administer sedatives as they repeatedly kick you in the bollocks, so you smile whilst they do it.
We think we are in paradise because we can tap letters on a mobile phone to a friend, or tap keys on a keyboard, or eat so called good food which is laced with all kinds of crap to wreck your body.

They fill you full of shitty hamburgers and fries and chocolate milkshakes, etc, then ridicule you into dieting, so you buy the stuff that nobody gives a stuff about, called health options of mashed up cardboard tasting garbage that you eat...because?....Because they told you to do it and it tastes crap because it's healthy and helps you slim.

It's a mindboggling system for any one person to figure out: but it's all there in front of your face if you can open your eyes and see what's going on.
All those who think life is a joy...good luck to you..it may be for you. Enjoy what you believe is your paradise, because soon enough some will start to see their savings disappearing and their eating habits cut down to making scraps into a meal or opting to eat shit whlst they treat you like shit and with contempt.

The robots will be fine. Those are the enforcement people. They will still be fed crap...but they have a purpose in life. They are given a uniform which gives them power over you even though they are in the same open jail as you, doing life, where your parole is only granted upon death, yet you are still buried in the grounds of your open jail. There is no escape.

My god, I've just pissed myself right off.  ;D

Re: Nuclear Weapons Do Not Exist
« Reply #722 on: April 29, 2014, 09:23:30 AM »
Now that I know a lot of what's going on, it drives me nuts that people can't start seeing it for themselves because it is all so obvious to me.  Americans know that they were lied to about Iraq, and they know that they were lied to about Syria.  This is common knowledge.   Now they are being told BS about the Cliven Bundy situation and the media should be completely exposing themselves at this point for being controlled lairs.  Our rights and futures are being destroyed and people can't snap out of this trance that they are in.  What the hell is it going to take?

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sceptimatic

  • Flat Earth Scientist
  • 30061
Re: Nuclear Weapons Do Not Exist
« Reply #723 on: April 29, 2014, 10:19:25 AM »
Now that I know a lot of what's going on, it drives me nuts that people can't start seeing it for themselves because it is all so obvious to me.  Americans know that they were lied to about Iraq, and they know that they were lied to about Syria.  This is common knowledge.   Now they are being told BS about the Cliven Bundy situation and the media should be completely exposing themselves at this point for being controlled lairs.  Our rights and futures are being destroyed and people can't snap out of this trance that they are in.  What the hell is it going to take?
I wish I had the answer to that.

Re: Nuclear Weapons Do Not Exist
« Reply #724 on: April 29, 2014, 12:01:31 PM »
How the hell do we wake up the world?
Two words: Massive.  Alarm.  Clock.

OK, that might have been more than two.
Quote from: mikeman7918
a single photon can pass through two sluts

Quote from: Chicken Fried Clucker
if Donald Trump stuck his penis in me after trying on clothes I would have that date and time burned in my head.

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sokarul

  • 19303
  • Extra Racist
Re: Nuclear Weapons Do Not Exist
« Reply #725 on: April 29, 2014, 01:37:15 PM »
How the hell do we wake up the world?
Two words: Massive.  Alarm.  Clock.

OK, that might have been more than two.
Or maybe some evidence.
ANNIHILATOR OF  SHIFTER

It's no slur if it's fact.

Re: Nuclear Weapons Do Not Exist
« Reply #726 on: May 05, 2014, 06:34:44 AM »
Evidence....whats that? Oh you mean spoon fed propaganda from the Illuminati ;)

you have to use your own mind like Septicmatic says....he is enlightened as to reaility

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beast

  • 2997
Re: Nuclear Weapons Do Not Exist
« Reply #727 on: May 08, 2014, 11:10:41 PM »

The US will not carpet bomb Iran and certainly would never drop a nuclear weapon on that country.

The politicial bias of beast's statement is so obvious and has been dealt with so much already
[/quote]

I am glad this 7 year old topic is still active.  Going back to the first post, we see a specific prediction made by me, and two competing political ideologies.  As a scientist, I think making testable predictions is the best demonstrations of the value of an ideology.  In this case, we can compare how well my ideology and Dio's are at predicting the future. 

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17 November

  • Flat Earth Believer
  • 1318
Re: Nuclear Weapons Do Not Exist
« Reply #728 on: May 16, 2014, 05:35:07 AM »
Going back to the first post, we see a specific prediction made by me, and two competing political ideologies.
I certainly hope your prediction proves correct.  It probably will hold true for at least as long as Obama remains president.


As a scientist, I think making testable predictions is the best demonstrations of the value of an ideology.  In this case, we can compare how well my ideology and Dio's are at predicting the future.
The absolute and open-ended way your prediction was phrased places time on my side.


I am glad this 7 year old topic is still active.
Indeed. 
It appears this thread has been noticed around the web and even played a part in the founding of a website:
http://www.big-lies.org/NUKE-LIES/www.nukelies.com/forum/2007-dionysius-pioneering-nuke-skeptic.html

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17 November

  • Flat Earth Believer
  • 1318
Re: Nuclear Weapons Do Not Exist
« Reply #729 on: May 16, 2014, 06:12:16 AM »
This is perhaps an opportune moment to summarize this thread which early developed two distinct yet interrelated themes: 
1) the non-existence of nuclear weapons
and
2) the non-existence of atoms

The argument against the theory of atoms concerns the nature of matter and merits a separate thread.  My chief sources against atoms included Pierre Duhem and Dewey Larson.  Much of their information is not directly relevant to weapons of mass destruction as discussed in this thread. 

My chief source concerning weapons of mass destruction has been US Army Air Force Major Alexander de Seversky.  De  Seversky was a disciple of US Air Force founder General Billy Mitchell as well as Royal Air Force founder Marshal Trenchard as well as fellow British air power writer and RAF Marshal Slessor – all of whom considered naval power as outmoded nineteenth century thinking.  Their views largely explain the relative absence of cold war Russian aircraft carriers in favor of land based aircraft as well as the British decision to abandon aircraft carriers in the 1960’s.   General Mitchell was famously court martialed circa 1925 by generals and admirals opposed to his views.  He lobbied throughout the 1930’s and died just before World War II.  General Mitchell’s perspective won over President Roosevelt in World War II when Walt Disney financed a movie version of De Seversky’s 1942 book which analyzed the history of air flight along with an astute analysis of the war’s battles up to that time from General Mitchell’s dynamic perspective.  Therefore, this film directly led to a vast enlargement of the Army Air Force and the postwar founding of the US Air Force as a distinct entity.  (Mitchell and De Seversky actually wanted the Army and Navy to be adjuncts subject to the Air Force as the centrepeice of the US military.)

Victory Through Air Power (1942)
#" class="bbc_link" target="_blank" rel="noopener noreferrer">Walt Disney Presents : Victory Through Air Power (1943) FULL MOVIE   

Major De Seversky was also the original founder of Republic Aviation which produced WWII planes like the P-47 Thunderbolt.  He was given high awards by Roosevelt and Truman, and was a close and lifelong friend of key Air Force Generals such as Carl Spaatz, etc.

De Seversky’s led the Air Force’s public affairs department after the war, and his greatest enemies were admirals and their supporters who were guided by the nineteenth century pre-aviation ideology of Alfred Mahan.  According to his biography, De Seversky’s severest test came in a February 1946 congressional hearing when he was grilled by pro-navy senators from Connecticut who questioned his dissenting views concerning atomic weapons.  De Seversky’s views were confirmed that summer (1946) by the final report of an investigative team which took several months to conclude what De Seversky had concluded in two days in August 1945.     

‘Alexander P. De Seversky and the Quest for Air Power’
By James Libbey
http://www.amazon.com/Alexander-Seversky-Quest-Air-Power/dp/1612341799

The Hump Express, November 1945
http://cbi-theater-10.home.comcast.net/~cbi-theater-10/hump_express/hump111545.html

The Hump Express was a military weekly.  De Seversky’s Reader’s Digest article of February 1946 brought his findings in Nagasaki and Hiroshima to the general public. 

De Severky eyewitnessed the summer 1946 bomb test at Bikini island (the famous one with the giant waterspout surrounded by naval destroyers) which is analyzed in De Seversky’s 1950 book
Air Power:  Key to Survival which contains three chapters  on this subject.  De Severky says that the water spout disappeared as fast as it was created.  Bikini island was chosen because its unusually deep harbor would create such a waterspout which would serve the Manhattan Project’s propaganda (which had changed its name to the US Atomic Energy Commission during that year).  The destroyers were said to be uninhabitable because of excessive radiation, and they were promptly scuttled in the island’s harbor which prevented any confirmation of this claim. 

Among other things, De Seversky quotes Manhattan Project scientist Ralph Lapp’s book ‘Must We Hide?’ which states that the early 1945 test bomb in Alamogordo, NM  was held in place by a 100 foot tower, and the base of this tower was still intact after the bomb exploded. 

I personally disagree with De Seversky’s right wing politics.  De Seversky was a friend and mentor of cold war Air Force generals like Curtis LeMay who advoated using weapons of mass destruction against civilian populations in places such as Vietnam.  However, De Seversky’s military analyses are very worthwhile and valuable to anyone who would understand how to defend or destroy the US in a major war.  Following General Mitchell’s “vital centre” doctrine of aircraft bombers flying straight to an enemy’s industrial heartland, De Seversky advocates dispersal of vital industry because concentration makes it easy to destroy.  The US has tended to consolidate its targets.

Having read more of this important source, I technically disagree with the nuke-sceptic website who goes to more extremes than I do.  Although weapons of mass destruction do exist with enhanced explosiveness over prior bombs, this enhanced destructiveness is not as impressive as propaganda would have it, and De Seversky did a fine job analyzing and explaining the details.

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17 November

  • Flat Earth Believer
  • 1318
Re: Nuclear Weapons Do Not Exist
« Reply #730 on: May 16, 2014, 06:38:02 AM »
I have not yet investigated the USS INDIANAPOLIS (CA-35) enough to know whether its 1945 torpedoing by a Japanese submarine and subsequent sinking in the South China was deliberately arranged by persons in the US or had anything to do with the fact that it had immediately prior transported key components of the little boy bomb from the US mainland to Tinian island in July 1945. 
This is presented for information and the possibility of its relevance to the propaganda version of the bombing of Hiroshima and Nagasaki.
http://www.ussindianapolis.org/story.htm

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/USS_Indianapolis_(CA-35)

...and its mention in Jaws…
#" class="bbc_link" target="_blank" rel="noopener noreferrer">"We delivered the bomb." From the film Jaws

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17 November

  • Flat Earth Believer
  • 1318
Re: Nuclear Weapons Do Not Exist
« Reply #731 on: May 16, 2014, 06:51:41 AM »
Hitler’s Uranium Club:  The Farmhall Transcripts’ by Jeremy Bernstein contains the transcripts of secretly recorded conversations of Werner Heisenberg and his fellow captured Nazi nuclear scientists at the British Farmhall facility in 1945.  These transcripts demonstrate that the Nazis never had a nuclear weapons program, and their leading nuclear scientists were ignorant of it and embarrassed when the Hiroshima and Nagasaki bombs were dropped. 

“The book is a refutation of the book "Heisenberg's War" by Thomas Powers, a revisionist history that claims that Heisenberg, Germany's top scientist, really knew how an Atomic Bomb worked, but withheld this information from his colleagues and the German Government.”
http://www.amazon.com/Hitlers-Uranium-Club-Secret-Recordings/dp/0387950893/ref=pd_sim_b_1?ie=UTF8&refRID=1Z44WJW3QAANXN72WP2T

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17 November

  • Flat Earth Believer
  • 1318
Re: Nuclear Weapons Do Not Exist
« Reply #732 on: May 16, 2014, 07:46:40 AM »
Another source of skepticism to have come out of the woodwork concerning atomic propaganda US Army Brigadier General Crawford Sams, a veteran medical officer and head of the Atomic Bomb Casualty Commission.

The Atomic Bomb Casualty Commission (ABCC) was established in Japan by the US occupation force in 1946.  It worked in tandem with the US Atomic Energy Commission.  According to ‘Suffering Made Real’ by Susan Lindee, the ABCC was widely viewed by Japanese as an instrument of American colonialism. 
http://press.uchicago.edu/ucp/books/book/chicago/S/bo3634560.html

The founding head of the ABCC was US Army medical General  Crawford Sams.   Sams confessed in a 1979 interview that the ABCC issued official lies which exaggerated the effects of the atomic bombs.  He stated that he was ordered to exaggerate these effects.  For example, every cause of death within six months of the bomb blasts in the two cities for any reason whatever including clearly unrelated events like bicycle traffic accidents, etc were all chalked up as having been caused by lethal radiation from the atomic bombings. 
http://beckerexhibits.wustl.edu/oral/interviews/sams.html

General Crawford Sams autobiography also contains a chapter describing the nature of his work for the ABCC.

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sokarul

  • 19303
  • Extra Racist
Re: Nuclear Weapons Do Not Exist
« Reply #733 on: May 16, 2014, 04:31:46 PM »
This is perhaps an opportune moment to summarize this thread which early developed two distinct yet interrelated themes: 
1) the non-existence of nuclear weapons
and
2) the non-existence of atoms

If you guys were wondering, 17 November thinks there is only earth, not elements. For a laugh ask him what the difference between gold and silver is. 
ANNIHILATOR OF  SHIFTER

It's no slur if it's fact.

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Shmeggley

  • 1909
  • Eppur si muove!
Re: Nuclear Weapons Do Not Exist
« Reply #734 on: May 17, 2014, 09:22:52 PM »
Nuclear weapons exist.




They do.




PS, November 17: What's the difference between gold and silver?
Giess what? I am a tin foil hat conspiracy lunatic who knows nothing... See what I'm getting at here?

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17 November

  • Flat Earth Believer
  • 1318
Re: Nuclear Weapons Do Not Exist
« Reply #735 on: May 18, 2014, 10:40:00 AM »
American propaganda used to justify the bombs claimed that the Japanese would have allegedly fought to the last man.  The truth is the Japanese moderates had already ousted Tojo from power back in the summer of 1944 and had wanted to surrender with some measure of dignity.  De Seversky states Hirohito actually welcomed the bomb and the accompanying psychological propaganda because it gave him the face saver he needed to surrender and retain his popularity. 

According to historian Edwin Hoyt, MacArthur and american intelligence actually planned the transfer of power this way because they could use Hirohito as the figure head of a post-war neo-fascist government that served the american empire.

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sokarul

  • 19303
  • Extra Racist
Re: Nuclear Weapons Do Not Exist
« Reply #736 on: May 18, 2014, 03:52:57 PM »
...


PS, November 17: What's the difference between gold and silver?
ANNIHILATOR OF  SHIFTER

It's no slur if it's fact.

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17 November

  • Flat Earth Believer
  • 1318
Re: Nuclear Weapons Do Not Exist
« Reply #737 on: May 18, 2014, 05:25:59 PM »
Since the information I had posted was spread out over many pages, I decided to delete those posts. 
Thus, information can be posted here in one place. 
Below is Major Alexander Seversky's February 1946 Reader's Digest Article:

------------------------------------------------------------------

'ATOMIC BOMB HYSTERIA'
By Major Alexander P. de Seversky
Author of "Victory Through Air Power," etc.

(READER'S DIGEST, February 1946, pages 121 to 126)

As Special Consultant to the Secretary of War, Judge Robert P. Patterson, I spent nearly eight months intensively studying war destruction in Europe and Asia.  I became thoroughly familiar with every variety of damage - from high explosives, incendiaries, artillery shells, dynamite, and combinations of these.
 
In this study, I inspected Hiroshima and Nagasaki, the targets of our atom bomb, examining the ruins, interrogating eyewitnesses and taking hundreds of pictures. 

It was my considered opinion, I told correspondents in Tokyo, that the effects of the atom bombs - not of future bombs, but of these two - had been wildly exaggerated.  If dropped on New York or Chicago, one of those bombs would have done no more damage than than a ten-ton blockbuster;  and the results in Hiroshima and Nagasaki could have been achieved by about 200 B-29's loaded with incendiaries, except that fewer Japanese would have been killed.  I did not "underrate" atom bombs or dispute their future potential.  I merely conveyed my professional findings on the physical results of the two bombs - and they happened to be in startling contrast to the hysterical imaginative versions spread through the world.

My findings were pounced upon in outraged anger by all sorts of people, in the press, on the air, at public forums;  and by scientists who haven't been within 5000 miles of Hiroshima.  But the violence of this reaction cannot alter the facts on view in the two Japanese cities.

I began my study of Japan by flying over Yokohama, Nagoya, Osaka, Kobe, and dozens of other places.  Later I visited them all on foot.

All presented the same pattern.  The bombed areas looked pinkish - an effect produced by the piles of ashes and rubble mixed with rusted metal.  Modern buildings and factories still stood.  That many of the buildings were gutted by fire was not apparent from the air.  The center of Yokohama, for instance, seemed almost intactwhen viewed from an airplane.  The long industrial belt stretcing from Osaka to Kobe had been laid waste by fire, but the factories and other concrete structures were still standing.  On the whole it was a picture quite different from what I had seen in German cities subjected to demolition bombardment.  The difference lay in the fact that Japanese destruction was overwhelmingly incendiary, with comparatively little structural damage to noninflammable targets.

In Hiroshima I was prepared for radically different sights.  But, to my surprise, Hiroshima looked exactly like all the other burned-out cities in Japan.

There was a familiar pink blot, about two miles in diameter.  It was dotted with charred trees and telephone poles.  Only one of the cities twenty bridges was down.  Hiroshima's clusters of modern buildings in the downtown section stood upright.

It was obvious that the blast could not have been so powerful as we had been led to believe.  It was extensive blast rather than intensive. 

I had heard of buildings instantly consumed by unprecedented heat.  Yet here I saw the buildings structurally intact, and what is more, topped by undamaged flag poles, lightning rods, painted railings, air raid precaution signs and other comparatively fragile objects. 

At the T-bridge, the aiming point for the atomic bomb, I looked for the "bald spot" where everything presumably had been vaporized in the twinkling of an eye.  It wasn't there or anywhere else.  I could find no traces of unusual phenomena.

What I did see was in substance a replica of Yokohama or Osaka, or the Tokyo suburbs - the familiar residue of an area of wood and brick houses razed by uncontrollable fire.  Everywhere I saw the trunks of charred and leafless trees, burned and unburned chunks of wood.  The fire had been intense enough to bend and twist steel girders and to melt glass until it ran like lava - just as in other Japanese cities.

The concrete buildings nearest to the center of explosion, some only a few blocks from the heart of the atom blast, showed no structural damage.  Even cornices, canopies and delicate exterior decorations were intact.  Window glass was shattered, of course, but single-panel frames held firm;  only window frames of two or more panels were bent and buckled.  The blast impact therefore could not have been unusual. 

Then I questioned a great many people who were inside such buildings when the bomb exploded.  Their descriptions matched the scores of accounts I had heard from people caught in concrete buildings in areas hit by blockbusters.  Hiroshima's ten-story press building, about three blocks from the center of the explosion, was badly gutted by the fire following the explosion, but otherwise unhurt.  The people caught in the building did not suffer any unusual effects. 

Most of the window panels were blown out of the Hiroshima hospital, about a mile from the heart of the explosion.  Because there were no wooden structures nearby, however, it escaped fire.  The people inside the hospital were not seriously affected by the blast.  In general the effects here were analogous to those produced by the blast of a distant TNT bomb.

The total death, destruction and horror in Hiroshima were as great as reported.  But the character of the damage was in no sense unique;  neither the blast nor the heat was so tremendous as generally assumed.

In NAGASAKI, concrete buildings were gutted by fire but were still standing upright. 

All of downtown Nagasaki, though chiefly wooden in construction, survived practically undamaged.  It was explained that apparently it had been shielded from the explosion by intervening hills.  But another part of Nagasaki, in a straight, unimpeded line from the explosion center and not protected by the hills, also escaped serious damage.  The Nagasaki blast had virtually dissipated itself by the time it reached this area.  Few houses collapsed and none caught fire.

All destruction in Nagasaki has been popularly credited to the atom bomb.  Actually, the city had been heavily bombed six days before.  The famous Mitsubishi plant was badly punished by eight high-explosive direct hits.

What actually happened in Hiroshima and Nagasaki?  There is little evidence of primary fire;  that is to say, fire kindled by the heat of the explosive itself.  The bomb presumably exploded too far above ground for that.  If the temperature within the exploding area of an atom bomb is super high (and the effects in New Mexico tend to indicate that) then the heat must have been dissipated in space.  What struck Hiroshima was the blast.

It was like a great fly swatter two miles broad, slapped down on a city of flimsy, half-rotted wooden houses and rickety brick buildings.  It flattened them out in one blow, burying perhaps 200,000 people in the debris.  Its effectiveness was increased by the incredible flimsiness of most Japanese structures, built of two-by-fours, termite-eaten and ry-rotted, and top-heavy with thick tile roofs. 

The wooden slats of the collapsed houses were piled like so much kindling wood in your fireplace.  Fires flared simultaneously in thousands of places, from short-circuits, over-turned stoves, kerosene lamps and broken gas mains.  The whole area burst into one fantastic bonfire.

In incendiary attacks, people have a chance of escape.  They run from their houses into the streets, to open places, to the rivers.  In Hiroshima the majority had no such chance.  Thousands of them must have been killed outright by falling walls and roofs;  the rest were pinned down in a burning hell.  Some 60,000, it is estimated, were burned to death.

Those who did manage to extricate themselves rushed for the bridges.  There is reason to believe that one of the bridges collapsed under the weight of the frenzied mobs, although some maintain that it was brought down by the bomb blast.  On the other bridges, the crush of hysterical humanity pushed out the railings, catapulting thousands to death by drowning.  The missing railings were not wrenched out by the bomb blast as widely reported.

On a vast and horrifying scale it was fire, just fire, that took such high toll of life and property in Hiroshima and Nagasaki.

The victims did not die instantaneously in a sort of atomic dissolution.  They died as people die in any fire.  Quite possibly the blast was strong enough to cause internal injuries to many of those caught in the center of explosion;  particularly lung injuries - a familiar effect of ordinary high-explosive bombing. 

Perhaps there were some deaths from radioactivity.  I met people who had heard of casualties from radio burns and radio poisoning.  But I could not obtain direxct confirmation.  The doctors and nurses at the hospitals I visited had no such cases under their care, though some of them had heard of such cases.  I also interrogated fire fighters and Red Cross workers who had rushed to the scene in the first few minutes.  They all denied personal knowledge of any lingering radioactivity.

Such are the facts as I found them - they seem to me tragic enough without pseudoscientific trimmings.  I am not alone in my opinions.  Scientific observers on the spot to whom I talked in general shared my point of view.  Nothing official came from the War Department to justify the wild exaggeration.  It simply is not true that matter was vaporized in the intense heat - if steel had evaporated certainly wood would have done the same, and undamaged wood abounds everywhere in the rubble.  In neither of the bombed cities was there a bald spot such as was created in the New Mexico experiment, and both atom-bombed areas have tree trunks and walls with growing vines to disprove the claims of super heat. 

The more painstakingly I analyze my observations, indeed, the more convinced I am that the same bombs dropped on New York or Chicago, Pittsburgh or Detroit, would have exacted no more toll on life than one of our big blockbusters, and the property damage might have been limited to broken window glass over a wide area.  Tue, the atom bombs apparently were released too high for maximum effect.  Exploded closer to the ground, the results of intense heat might have been impressive.  But in that case the blast might have been localized, sharply reducing the area of destruction. 

Three scientists at the University of Chicago took me severely to task for saying 200 B-29's with incendiaries could have done as much damage.  They pointed out "that if 200 Superforts with ordinary bombs could wipe out Hiroshima as a single atomic bomb did, the same number of planes could wipe 200 cities with atomic bombs." 

These experts merely forgot to mention one detail - that the 200 cities should be as flimsy as Hiroshima.  On a steel-and-concrete city high explosives would have to be added to the job.  One atomic bomb hurled at Hiroshima was equal to 200 Superforts;  but in New York or Chicago a different kind of atomic bomb exploding in different fashion, would be needed before it could equal one Superfort loaded with high explosives. 

It seems to me completely misleading to say that the atomic bomb used on Japan was "20,000 times more powerful" than a TNT blockbuster.  From the view of total energy generated, this may be correct.  But we are not concerned with the energy released into space.  What we are concerned with is the portion which achieves effective demolition.  From that point of view, the 20,000 figure is reduced immediately to 200 for a target like Hiroshima.  For a target like New York, the figure of 20,000 drops to one or less. 

However, the comparison of the atom bomb with a TNT bomb, at this stage of development, is like comparing a flaming torch with a pneumatic drill.  Everything depends on whether you're trying to burn a wooden fence or demolish a concrete wall.  All we can say with certainty is that the atomic bomb proved supremely effective in destroying a highly flimsy and inflammable city.  It was one of those cases when the right force was used against the right target at the right time to produce the maximum effect.  Those who made the tactical decision to use it in these cases should be highly complimented. 

The omb dropped on Nagasaki was said to be a great many times more powerful than the one dropped on Hiroshima.  Yet the damage in Nagasaki was much smaller.  In Hiroshima 4.1 square miles were razed;  in Nagasaki only one square mile.  The improved atom bomb, in other words, was only about one fourth as effective!

Why?  There are various theories, but no one knows for certain.  It underlines the fat that something besides additional mass will be needed to produce greater results on the target.  Eventually, of course, the problem of obtaining maximum results from atom missile will be solved.  Methods will surely be found for dissipating less of the released energy in space and directing more of it to destruction.

The Chicago scientists reminded me in their statement that "the bombs dropped on Japan were the first atomic bombs ever made.  They are firecrackers compared with what will be developed ten or 20 years."
 
That is exactly the point I am trying to make:  that they are as yet in the primitive stage.  Humankind has stampeded into a state of near hysteria at the first exhibits of atomic destruction.  Fantasy is running wild.  There are those who think we ought to dispense with all other national defense.  They talk of a dozen suicides who will put on false whiskers, take compact atomic bombs in suitcases, and blow this country to bits.  Such hyperbole is exciting, but it is a dangerous basis for national thinking.
 
On the size of the bombs, incidentally, there has been much uninformed rhetoric.  How do so many people know that the atomic bombs weighed only "a few ounces" or "a few pounds"?  After all, our biggest bomber, not a pursuit plane, was chosen to carry it.
 
A conspiracy of circumstances whipped up atomic hysteria.  The Japanese had every reason to propagate extreme versions.  The atom bomb gave the perfect face saving excuse for surrender.  They could now pretend that an almost supernatural element had intervened to force their defeat.
 
The BOMB provided a face saver for or leadership as well.  Our leaders were deeply committed to invasion, insisting that there could be no victory without meeting the Japanese armies in traditional fashion.  We were winning a victory over Japan through air power, but I am personally convinced that we would have gone through with the invasion anyway and paid the tragic and unnecessary cost in life.  The momentum of the old assumptions was too great to be arrested.
 
The atom bomb instantly released everybody from past commitments.  The nightmare of an invasion was cancelled, a miracle saving perhaps half a million American and several million Japanese lives.  Though the Hiroshima and Nagasaki episodes added less than three percent to the material devastation already visited on Japan by air power, its psychological value was incalculable - for both the defeated and the victors.
 
The atom bomb fitted propaganda purposes.  To isolationists it seemed final proof that we could let the rest of the world stew in its own juices - with our head start in atomic energy and our superior know-how, we were safe.  The internationalists, on the other hand, tried to intimidate us by reminding us that we had no monopoly on science.  Everyone could manufacture the atomic bomb, they said, and if we didn't play ball we would be destroyed. 

I am one of those who fought against inertia in the domain of air power.  Consequently I am gratified that in relation to atomic energy the public is alert, that we are planning well ahead.  But there is no call for the kind of frenzy that paralyzes understanding.  Our only safety is in a calm confrontation of the truth.
 
I earnestly urge a cooling-off period on atomic speculation. 

I am the last one to deny that atomic energy injects a vital and perhaps revolutionary new factor into military science and world relations.  But I do not believe that the revolution has already taken place and that we should surrender all our normal faculties to a kind of atomic frenzy.  Whatever we decide to do, let us do it calmly, logically and above all without doing violence to
ascertainable facts. 

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17 November

  • Flat Earth Believer
  • 1318
Re: Nuclear Weapons Do Not Exist
« Reply #738 on: May 18, 2014, 05:29:17 PM »
A relevant article about Brigadier General Crawford Sams, head of the Atomic Bomb Casualty Commission:

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The Atom Bomb: “A Poor Killer”
Crawford Sams and the Atomic Bomb Casualty Commission in Japan

General Crawford Sams reconstituted or, to be more accurate, recreated the Japanese public health system after World War II. No stranger to pride or self-confidence, he characterized himself as one the six men who ran Japan under MacArthur.

With good reason, Sams credited himself with decreasing mortality by five million lives through application of his exemplary professionalism, energy, and focus to the prevention of epidemics, upgrading the health care system, and improving nutrition during the occupation.

As a military medical man, General Sams had a healthy respect for epidemic disease as the leading cause of casualties and degraded fighting ability of armies amid the chaos and destruction of wartime. According to his experience, World War II was the first war in which actual fighting produced more U.S. casualties than disease.

His respect for the atomic bomb? Not so great.

General Sams also ran the Atomic Bomb Casualty Commission, charged with evaluating mortality and morbidity associated with Hiroshima and Nagasaki.

According to an oral history Sams recorded in 1979, his first job was to collect the data; the second job was to hype it:

There was a letter brought over by this first group that came up to Japan from the Philippines with me, from the Manhattan Project, in which the President was looking for a new deterrent against a future war…So the object of this instruction, called Letter of Instruction, was “You will play up the devastating effect of the atomic bomb.” All right?

So I was the one who set the deadline this time. Anybody who had been in Hiroshima and died within six months, whether they got run over by a bicycle or whatnot, would be credited to the atomic bomb. We had to set some kind of order to this…all the reports that came back were the result of these studies that came over my desk.

The atomic bomb went off and that city had about 250 thousand people in it…When the bomb went off, about 2 thousand people out of 250 thousand got killed – by blast, by thermal radiation, or by intense x-ray, gamma radiation.
Then, what happened is like an earthquake. The blast knocked down houses, hibachis had turned over and started fires. When you have an earthquake or an atomic bomb, you start fires and then people are trapped in the buildings.

And again, by endless interviews, “Where were you?” “Where was your great uncle?” “Where was grandma when this occurred?” We built up the evidence to show on a cookie-cutter basis that it took about thirty-six hours for about two-thirds of that town to burn.

You see, it wasn’t “Bing” like the publicity here [said]: a bomb went off and a city disappeared. No such thing happened. That was the propaganda for deterrent. They’re talking about after that, “One bomb and away goes Chicago,” you know? All you’ve got to do is look in Life magazine and whatnot back in ’45, ’46, and so on. ... Well, you have to keep your feet on the ground.

As near as we could figure then, about twenty-one thousand people died in thirty-six hours as a result of being trapped and burned and so on. It’s like those who died in the ’23 earthquake [and subsequent] fire.

Then, as I say, I set the six months’ deadline for anybody who had been there, even though they went away and so on, to put a deadline on deaths from delayed radiation effects as far as it takes six months or so for deaths from (what do they call it?) delayed effects.

One of us …got a priest there to say he guessed 100 thousand people died when the bomb went off. Well, you see, it didn’t. There never was 100 thousand people [who] died. I recall the figures to the ultimate, six months’ deaths from untreated burns, thermal burns – they didn’t have any drugs or anything else, except what we could get in to them – and the delayed effects of radiation which take several months. …It was about 76 [thousand] [who] ultimately died in six months, out of 250 thousand.

Actually, the atomic bomb was a poor killer.


Indeed, according to Sams, the only reason that the casualty numbers in Hiroshima were as high as they were was because the Japanese government had taken no measures to disperse the population there—as it had done in Tokyo in anticipation of the devastating U.S. incendiary raids of 1945.

Sams was even less impressed by the atom bombing of Nagasaki.
Down at Nagasaki, they missed the ground zero they tried to hit, but there’s still the fact that it hit Nagasaki Medical School and Hospital there and killed a lot of patients and so on – from the _____(?) of the concrete building. But the blast effected [sic] this and knocked down part of the concrete and so on. But you don’t hear much about the effects of Nagasaki because actually it was pretty ineffective. That was a narrow corridor from the hospital in _____(?) down to the port, and the effects were very limited as far as the fire spread and all that stuff. So you don’t hear much about Nagasaki.

Indeed, the structure of the Nagasaki Medical School and Hospital—700 meters from the hypocenter-- was still standing after the attack.

Sams had also participated in the famous post-World War II Strategic Bombing Survey of Europe, which concluded that Germany’s industrial output had simply increased as the U.S. and Great Britain had pounded its factories and infrastructure with huge bombing raids.

He placed the Truman administration’s need to exaggerate the destructive effects of the atomic bomb in the context of the desire to create a new, more credible deterrent now that the strategic bombing boogeyman was a thing of the past:


After each war, for political reasons, you’d try to find a deterrent to prevent the next war.

After the First World War, it was gas warfare and people – you probably wouldn’t remember – but after that we even had motion pictures (the movies) about gassing New York City and so on till somebody figured out the air currents were such [that] you couldn’t hold a concentration of gas to gas New York City if the people stayed in the buildings and closed the windows. So that failed.

The next deterrent was air power, and so from the time of Billy Mitchell in 1925 to the Second World War, [the belief was that] if we ever had another war, air power would destroy civilization. Sound familiar? So, the theoretical production of air casualties, the catching of troops in defiles and their obliteration was the thesis in which we were all indoctrinated up until the beginning of the Second World War.

As you know then again, the myth of strategic bombing carried on and finally “Tooey” [Gen. Carl A.] Spaatz, who was an ex-classmate of mine and so on, was given [command of the] Eighth Air Force [with] the authority, together with the RAF, to bomb Germany. And Germany industrially was to collapse. But of course it failed. ..

I was part of the Strategic Bomb Survey Group in the theater to assess damage as we progressed across where we had been bombing Tobruk, for instance, and supposedly had cut off [the enemy’s] oil supply. When we got there, we found, of course, we had knocked down the warehouses and so on, but he dispersed his supplies in the desert, so we hadn’t cut off anything.

So the casualty factor was – I sent back reports on this – that air power was not a major casualty producer. But when you have a whole senior echelon, like in Washington, indoctrinated over years, growing up with the idea that you could stop armored columns with air power and so on, it’s hard to get that reversal.

I had to do the same thing with the atomic bomb when I came back.

To Sams, the atom bomb was nothing new. It was a new form of strategic bombing, but the Germans and the Japanese had already figured out the appropriate countermeasure: dispersal.

Sams believed that the Soviet Union, unlike the United States, had made drawn the correct lesson from Hiroshima and Nagasaki: that the casualties and damages from an atomic attack could be mitigated by a strategy of dispersal and atomic attack was therefore survivable.

Interestingly, the Chinese government drew the same conclusion and engaged in a massive dispersal of industrial and military assets to remote areas of the country—primarily as a countermeasure to an anticipated atomic attack by the Soviets—during the 1960s.

Sams was a loyal MacArthur man and left Japan for reassignment (the Army had rejected his attempt to retire) when Truman relieved MacArthur at the height of the Korean War.

Back in the United States, Sams proselytized for a policy of strategic dispersal which seems to have run afoul of the U.S. military’s addiction to the doctrine of deterrence and the intoxicating effect of the budget-busting pursuit of Mutually Assured Destruction.

When I came back to this country, I was appalled, from a military standpoint, to find that our major planners in the War Department were using their own propaganda, 100 thousand deaths, Bing!

It took me a couple of years to get that comparison straightened out in our official training doctrine in this country. I used to tell them back in the general staff and so on and including the chief of staff, “...if you can deter a war, for God’s sake, let’s do it and blow up the effects all you want

It’s all right to put out propaganda, but don’t believe your own propaganda. That’s what happens too often in this business. That’s why you had the hysteria about this radiation thing up here. So I had a job of de-glamorizing, if you like, no that’s not the word – debunking the myth that air power alone could win a battle against ground troops, or that air power could win a war…

It took me about four years to get some facts straightened out about the atomic bomb at Hiroshima with our high echelon people and now you’ve got a generation of diplomats who still are swallowing the old nonsense and putting it out.

But anyway, this has been the kind of a thing I’ve gotten into, not because of choice, but because when I found something that doesn’t fit the generally-accepted thing, I try to find what’s true and what’s fallacious.



Source:  http://chinamatters.blogspot.com/2009/05/atom-bomb-poor-killer.html

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sokarul

  • 19303
  • Extra Racist
Re: Nuclear Weapons Do Not Exist
« Reply #739 on: May 18, 2014, 07:19:03 PM »
I can post random links too.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rocky_Flats
Less than 30 minutes away, although it's not there anymore. I wonder if my old soccer teammate's mom is just going to magically appear since she couldn't have died from radiation poising from working there.

17 November isn't going to answer the question "What is the difference between gold and silver?" because he can't. I was looking for his old answer of "It just is".

So here, have picture I took(which is probably already posted in this thread.)
It's a bunch of 1000 ppm standards. Sure is strange there can be so many when they don't exist.



Any response 17 November?
ANNIHILATOR OF  SHIFTER

It's no slur if it's fact.

?

17 November

  • Flat Earth Believer
  • 1318
Re: Nuclear Weapons Do Not Exist
« Reply #740 on: May 18, 2014, 07:54:36 PM »
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rocky_Flats
...
Any response 17 November?
Yes.  This link is a good contribution to this thread and should be considered along with those that I have posted to have a more complete and accurate assessment of this topic.

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sokarul

  • 19303
  • Extra Racist
Re: Nuclear Weapons Do Not Exist
« Reply #741 on: May 18, 2014, 07:57:06 PM »
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rocky_Flats
...
Any response 17 November?
Yes.  This link is a good contribution to this thread and should be considered along with those that I have posted to have a more complete and accurate assessment of this topic.
Of course not the picture though, as it disproves all you have said about atoms not existing.
ANNIHILATOR OF  SHIFTER

It's no slur if it's fact.

?

17 November

  • Flat Earth Believer
  • 1318
Re: Nuclear Weapons Do Not Exist
« Reply #742 on: May 18, 2014, 08:02:26 PM »
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rocky_Flats
This link is a good contribution to this thread and should be considered along with those that I have posted to have a more complete and accurate assessment of this topic.

In particular, this makes an interesting comparison with a 1980 Financial Times article which I will try to locate and post which relates the history of a group of plutonium workers from the 1940's whose personal histories were incident free for decades afterwards - which is quite the opposite of the Rocky Flats story.

?

17 November

  • Flat Earth Believer
  • 1318
Re: Nuclear Weapons Do Not Exist
« Reply #743 on: May 18, 2014, 08:08:26 PM »
Alexander de Seversky's second book 'Air Power:  Key to Survival' (1950) contains photographs of largely undamaged parts of Hiroshima which were censored from publication in the american press.  I'll try to scan these and post them later this week.  He also stated that parts of Hiroshima's tram network never ceased functioning and that the city's entire streetcar network was fully functioning less than 48 hours after the little boy bomb exploded.

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sokarul

  • 19303
  • Extra Racist
Re: Nuclear Weapons Do Not Exist
« Reply #744 on: May 18, 2014, 09:49:19 PM »
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rocky_Flats
This link is a good contribution to this thread and should be considered along with those that I have posted to have a more complete and accurate assessment of this topic.

In particular, this makes an interesting comparison with a 1980 Financial Times article which I will try to locate and post which relates the history of a group of plutonium workers from the 1940's whose personal histories were incident free for decades afterwards - which is quite the opposite of the Rocky Flats story.
It's because Rocky Flats was unsafe to people and the environment. If they handled the plutonium and the plutonium waste correctly there wouldn't have been any problems later on.
ANNIHILATOR OF  SHIFTER

It's no slur if it's fact.

?

17 November

  • Flat Earth Believer
  • 1318
Re: Nuclear Weapons Do Not Exist
« Reply #745 on: May 18, 2014, 10:39:54 PM »
Zbigniew Jaworowski was one of the more well informed writers in recent history to challenge exaggerations about nuclear radiation.  He especially wrote about Chernobyl in particular.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zbigniew_Jaworowski

"The survivors of the atomic bombing of Hiroshima and Nagasaki who received instantaneous radiation doses of less than 200 mSv have not suffered significant induction of cancers.  And so far, after 50 years of study, the progeny of survivors who were exposed to much higher, near-lethal doses have not developed adverse genetic effects."
'Radiation Risk and Ethics'
By Zbigniew Jaworowski
http://www.riskworld.com/Nreports/1999/jaworowski/NR99aa01.htm

'Observations on Chernobyl'
By Zbigniew Jaworowski
https://www.21stcenturysciencetech.com/Articles_2010/Summer_2010/Observations_Chernobyl.pdf


'Nuclear Fear:  A History of Images' by Spencer Weart is a comprehensive history of twentieth century nuclear propaganda.
online version: 
http://books.google.com/books/about/Nuclear_Fear.html?id=NuFubjYl1poC

After the Japanese tidal wave and nuclear scare of 2011, Weart issued an updated but abridged version of this book entitled 'The Rise of Nuclear Fear.'  In my opinion, the scope and success of nuclear propaganda chronicled in this book (as well as phenomena like space travel) confirms the theses of 1960's classics like those of (Librarian of Congress) Daniel Boorstin's 'Guide to Pseudo-Events in America' and Marxist Guy DeBord's 'Society of the Spectacle.'  DeBord wrote years later that the society of spectacle began in earnest during the 1920's having been facilitated by radio.

Re: Nuclear Weapons Do Not Exist
« Reply #746 on: May 20, 2014, 09:51:36 PM »
Many countries that claim to have nuclear weapons have released fake nuclear bomb test videos.  Why would this even happen?  Aren't there supposed to be hundreds of nuclear tests that were conducted?  Why wouldn't these be filmed?  Where are the actual videos of real nuclear bomb tests?  From any country.  You would expect to get some from at least the U.S. or Russia.  If you people can look at the U.S.'s first H-bomb test and still think that it is of an actual nuclear blast, then maybe you should start doing something else with your time.  This forum can educate people with history and evidence that they are being lied to about, start dealing with reality on reality's terms.

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sokarul

  • 19303
  • Extra Racist
Re: Nuclear Weapons Do Not Exist
« Reply #747 on: May 21, 2014, 10:35:26 PM »
Many countries that claim to have nuclear weapons have released fake nuclear bomb test videos.  Why would this even happen?  Aren't there supposed to be hundreds of nuclear tests that were conducted?  Why wouldn't these be filmed?  Where are the actual videos of real nuclear bomb tests?  From any country.  You would expect to get some from at least the U.S. or Russia.  If you people can look at the U.S.'s first H-bomb test and still think that it is of an actual nuclear blast, then maybe you should start doing something else with your time.  This forum can educate people with history and evidence that they are being lied to about, start dealing with reality on reality's terms.
Youtube has plenty of videos.
ANNIHILATOR OF  SHIFTER

It's no slur if it's fact.

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Son of Orospu

  • Jura's b*tch and proud of it!
  • Planar Moderator
  • 37834
  • I have artificial intelligence
Re: Nuclear Weapons Do Not Exist
« Reply #748 on: May 21, 2014, 11:37:58 PM »
Youtube has plenty of videos.

Yes, that is what they are sort of known for.  Thank you, once again, captain obvious.  Are you going to tell us the colour of the sky next? 

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sokarul

  • 19303
  • Extra Racist
Re: Nuclear Weapons Do Not Exist
« Reply #749 on: May 22, 2014, 02:54:05 PM »
Youtube has plenty of videos.

Yes, that is what they are sort of known for.  Thank you, once again, captain obvious.  Are you going to tell us the colour of the sky next?
Normally it would be obvious, but to a typical fe'er, it is not.
ANNIHILATOR OF  SHIFTER

It's no slur if it's fact.