private satellites

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mikanch

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private satellites
« on: March 04, 2007, 04:46:53 AM »
what about them? are private societies ( like this one http://www.spaceimaging.com/gallery/ ) providing images from space part of the conspiracy too? so how come there's the problem of some places on earth that some satellites are not allowed to picture? conspirers fighting other conspirers?

get a life...

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Matthais

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Re: private satellites
« Reply #1 on: March 04, 2007, 05:36:32 AM »
satalite of love :P

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sokarul

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Re: private satellites
« Reply #2 on: March 04, 2007, 12:04:26 PM »
They still say companies like Space Imaging are a conspiracy.  Even though you can see pictures they have taken and stuff.  Then they just ignore over half the argument.  Kinda like the GPS argument.  It just died because they didnt have any comebacks. 
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Rick_James

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Re: private satellites
« Reply #3 on: March 05, 2007, 06:36:00 PM »
They still say companies like Space Imaging are a conspiracy.  Even though you can see pictures they have taken and stuff.  Then they just ignore over half the argument.  Kinda like the GPS argument.  It just died because they didnt have any comebacks. 


Those companies are clearly part of the conspiracy - they post pictures depicting a Round Earth and claim they're for real.

It has been shown time and time again that GPS does not prove anything regarding RE theory.

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sokarul

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Re: private satellites
« Reply #4 on: March 05, 2007, 07:26:33 PM »
GPS has to use satellites.  You have shown anything.  The GPS stations need an exact know position.  A GPS receiver has a built in almanac par HOWSTUFFWORKS to calculate the satellites position.  How could a GPS unit know where a plane  or a balloon is? So once again GPS requires satellites.   
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TheEngineer

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Re: private satellites
« Reply #5 on: March 05, 2007, 07:42:52 PM »
In the primary navigation signal, the 'orbital' information is sent in the ephemeris. 


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sokarul

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Re: private satellites
« Reply #6 on: March 05, 2007, 07:44:44 PM »
That how does a balloon floating in the wind know where it is?  Or a plane?  They cant know where they are.  Look it, the satellites are in know orbits, thus making it easy to tell where they are.
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Tom Bishop

Re: private satellites
« Reply #7 on: March 05, 2007, 07:47:03 PM »
That how does a balloon floating in the wind know where it is?  Or a plane?  They cant know where they are.  Look it, the satellites are in know orbits, thus making it easy to tell where they are.

That's why the lighter than air vehicles for GPS are geostationary.

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TheEngineer

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Re: private satellites
« Reply #8 on: March 05, 2007, 07:48:49 PM »
Or a plane?  They cant know where they are.
Then how come when I fly, I always end up where I intended to go, if it's not possible for an aircraft to know where it is, in flight?  Do all these commercial flights make it to their destination by pure luck?


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sokarul

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Re: private satellites
« Reply #9 on: March 05, 2007, 07:51:27 PM »
Because the plane uses GPS which runs on satellites.  No need for charts anymore.
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TheEngineer

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Re: private satellites
« Reply #10 on: March 05, 2007, 07:57:43 PM »
None of the aircraft I fly have GPS, yet I still know where I am at every point in my flight.


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sokarul

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Re: private satellites
« Reply #11 on: March 05, 2007, 08:03:09 PM »
Down to the foot?
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TheEngineer

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Re: private satellites
« Reply #12 on: March 05, 2007, 08:05:56 PM »
Yep.


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sokarul

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Re: private satellites
« Reply #13 on: March 05, 2007, 08:07:13 PM »
what do you use?
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TheEngineer

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Re: private satellites
« Reply #14 on: March 05, 2007, 08:35:55 PM »
VOR, DME, and NDB's.  Not to mention INS.


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sokarul

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Re: private satellites
« Reply #15 on: March 05, 2007, 08:57:40 PM »
VOR, DME, and NDB's.  Not to mention INS.
None of those have a accuracy of one foot.  Not to mention the NDBs definition says its better because it follows the curvature of the Earth.
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TheEngineer

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Re: private satellites
« Reply #16 on: March 05, 2007, 09:10:52 PM »
Neither does GPS.


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sokarul

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Re: private satellites
« Reply #17 on: March 05, 2007, 09:12:53 PM »
Yeah but is around 9 feet, and it will still pick up changes that are only a foot or two.  These are much better then those instruments.   
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TheEngineer

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Re: private satellites
« Reply #18 on: March 05, 2007, 09:22:29 PM »
It's actually about 50 feet and upwards of 200 feet vertically.


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sokarul

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Re: private satellites
« Reply #19 on: March 05, 2007, 09:23:48 PM »
It's actually about 50 feet and upwards of 200 feet vertically.

Read the box, its 3 meters.  So a little more then 9 feet. 
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TheEngineer

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Re: private satellites
« Reply #20 on: March 05, 2007, 09:26:39 PM »
Ephemeris errors alone will give you an error of almost 3 meters.


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sokarul

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Re: private satellites
« Reply #21 on: March 05, 2007, 09:32:58 PM »
yup.  And like I said, that is way better then the instruments you use. 

So once again GPS using satellites 1 balloons and planes 0
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TheEngineer

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Re: private satellites
« Reply #22 on: March 05, 2007, 11:25:10 PM »
yup.  And like I said, that is way better then the instruments you use. 


Plus another 12 meters in other errors, and you are up to 50 feet.  Also, the receiver often times calculates a 'probable' area, due to sphere overlap.  This will get you even less accuracy.



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Kasroa Is Gone

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Re: private satellites
« Reply #23 on: March 06, 2007, 07:28:30 AM »
GPS uses satellites.

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Mr. Ireland

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Re: private satellites
« Reply #24 on: March 06, 2007, 09:00:36 AM »
GPS uses satellites.

Didn't the last arguement about GPS with satellites or compasses end with no replies?

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Kasroa Is Gone

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Re: private satellites
« Reply #25 on: March 06, 2007, 09:50:35 AM »
Well what usually happens is we get the same stupid straw-man argument "GPS does not require satellites". What this has to do with the fact that GPS does in fact use satellites is beyond me. I've compared it in the past to arguing against the existence of boats and planes by saying "Crossing the atlantic does not require boats and planes". I don't see many people swimming across the ocean though.

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sokarul

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Re: private satellites
« Reply #26 on: March 06, 2007, 10:11:22 AM »
yup.  And like I said, that is way better then the instruments you use. 


Plus another 12 meters in other errors, and you are up to 50 feet.  Also, the receiver often times calculates a 'probable' area, due to sphere overlap.  This will get you even less accuracy.



Nope, multiple satellites will allow the spheres to line up at one point.  The error is 3 meters on my bros unit.  Not more not less.  New receivers take into account time dilation and all that good stuff.
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Mr. Ireland

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Re: private satellites
« Reply #27 on: March 06, 2007, 10:44:30 AM »
Well what usually happens is we get the same stupid straw-man argument "GPS does not require satellites". What this has to do with the fact that GPS does in fact use satellites is beyond me. I've compared it in the past to arguing against the existence of boats and planes by saying "Crossing the atlantic does not require boats and planes". I don't see many people swimming across the ocean though.

Nice comparison.

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TheEngineer

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Re: private satellites
« Reply #28 on: March 06, 2007, 12:18:01 PM »
Nope, multiple satellites will allow the spheres to line up at one point.  The error is 3 meters on my bros unit.  Not more not less.  New receivers take into account time dilation and all that good stuff.
You obviously don't understand how integrated systems work.  You don't just have an ephemeris error and that's it.  You also have a clock error, a multipath error, calculation error, and atmospheric errors.  Due to the uncertainty in the calculation, the receiver often won't have spheres that align at only one point, therefore, the unit must calculate a numerically probable location.


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astronomy101

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Re: private satellites
« Reply #29 on: March 06, 2007, 12:29:19 PM »
Nope, multiple satellites will allow the spheres to line up at one point.  The error is 3 meters on my bros unit.  Not more not less.  New receivers take into account time dilation and all that good stuff.
You obviously don't understand how integrated systems work.  You don't just have an ephemeris error and that's it.  You also have a clock error, a multipath error, calculation error, and atmospheric errors.  Due to the uncertainty in the calculation, the receiver often won't have spheres that align at only one point, therefore, the unit must calculate a numerically probable location.

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