traveling east

I Object.

ok, can we agree that there is some change that would have to me made in direction if one wished to travel straight east ?

Even on a RE, if you were 10 feet Rimward (oops, South) of the N pole, you'd have to go in obvious circles to go due east.

Even on a RE, if you were 10 feet Rimward (oops, South) of the N pole, you'd have to go in obvious circles to go due east.

No you wouldn't, you would drop some with the drop of the earth, but you would be going straight.  Have you ever looked at a globe?

Quote from: EricTheRed on March 02, 2007, 08:28:01 PM

Even on a RE, if you were 10 feet Rimward (oops, South) of the N pole, you'd have to go in obvious circles to go due east.

No you wouldn't, you would drop some with the drop of the earth, but you would be going straight.  Have you ever looked at a globe?

If the North pole was four feet to my left, are you saying that I would have to walk straight ahead in order to be a consistent four feet from the pole?

ok, can we agree that there is some change that would have to me made in direction if one wished to travel straight east ?

If my direction is constantly east, then no, there would be no change in my direction.

If my direction is constantly east, then no, there would be no change in my direction.

Yes there would be.  There wouldn't be a change in your orientation relative to the earth's magnetic field.

Seriously, the rest of the FE community disavows most everything he says.

I personally get the feeling he's just here for the debate.

If the North pole was four feet to my left, are you saying that I would have to walk straight ahead in order to be a consistent four feet from the pole?

Use the equator for the example then.  On the FE model you would have to turn in order to remain on the equator.  In the RE model, however, you would not.  This holds true for any two points on the globe that a circle can be drawn through so long as the circle intersects the surface of the earth.  This is not true for two points along a circle close to and surrounding the north pole.

while you're flying on your "round Earth," do you notice that you're going around in a large circle? Because you are. But it appears as if you're going along a flat surface the whole time, right?

Read above.

That change would take place over a long period of time.

A few hours maybe?  Commercial airplanes travel roughly 550mph.  Eventually, pilots would start to notice the difference.  Unless, of course, they're all in on the conspiratorial paycheck. 

A few hours maybe?  Commercial airplanes travel roughly 550mph.  Eventually, pilots would start to notice the difference.  Unless, of course, they're all in on the conspiratorial paycheck. 

Commercial airliners also run on autopilot for most of the trip.

Quote

A few hours maybe?  Commercial airplanes travel roughly 550mph.  Eventually, pilots would start to notice the difference.  Unless, of course, they're all in on the conspiratorial paycheck. 

Commercial airliners also run on autopilot for most of the trip.

Yeah, and pilots take naps and drink coffee during that time without bothering to look at their course or gauges.

Yeah, and pilots take naps and drink coffee during that time without bothering to look at their course or gauges.

Coffee!??! Don't you mean moonshine and LSD?? 

Commercial airliners also run on autopilot for most of the trip.

As implied above, pilots don't just not pay attention to their flight while auto pilot is on.

Quote from: TheEngineer on March 02, 2007, 08:40:18 PM

If my direction is constantly east, then no, there would be no change in my direction.

Yes there would be.  There wouldn't be a change in your orientation relative to the earth's magnetic field.

Like I said, your cardinal direction would not change.

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That change would take place over a long period of time.

A few hours maybe?  Commercial airplanes travel roughly 550mph.  Eventually, pilots would start to notice the difference.  Unless, of course, they're all in on the conspiratorial paycheck. 

Maintaining a rate of turn, especially one so shallow, would allow for the pilots to become 'used' to the turn, or spatially disoriented.

Use the equator for the example then.  On the FE model you would have to turn in order to remain on the equator.  In the RE model, however, you would not.  This holds true for any two points on the globe that a circle can be drawn through so long as the circle intersects the surface of the earth.  This is not true for two points along a circle close to and surrounding the north pole.

Oh? So you're saying that you don't have to turn at all in order to circumnavigate the Earth on the round Earth model? You mean to say that if you were to fly along the equator for some forty-thousand kilometers that you wouldn't be traveling around in a circle? Please explain to me, then, how would one reach the point where he originally began if not via a circle. I'm curious to know.


~D-Draw

As implied above, pilots don't just not pay attention to their flight while auto pilot is on.

They don't.  They drink coffee and read magazines.  Oh, and every once and a while, they turn a knob.

Quote from: The Philosopher on March 02, 2007, 09:23:18 PM

Use the equator for the example then.  On the FE model you would have to turn in order to remain on the equator.  In the RE model, however, you would not.  This holds true for any two points on the globe that a circle can be drawn through so long as the circle intersects the surface of the earth.  This is not true for two points along a circle close to and surrounding the north pole.

Oh? So you're saying that you don't have to turn at all in order to circumnavigate the Earth on the round Earth model? You mean to say that if you were to fly along the equator for some forty-thousand kilometers that you wouldn't be traveling around in a circle? Please explain to me, then, how would one reach the point where he originally began if not via a circle. I'm curious to know.


~D-Draw

No, you wouldn't have to turn anymore than someone has to turn while walking in a straight line.  The ratio of gravity to lift maintains constant altitude.

Like I said, your cardinal direction would not change.

So you said: when you're travelling east, youre travelling east.  Great input.

Maintaining a rate of turn, especially one so shallow, would allow for the pilots to become 'used' to the turn, or spatially disoriented.

We can argue this all day without going anywhere so theres no point perpetuating it.

They don't.  They drink coffee and read magazines.  Oh, and every once and a while, they turn a knob.

We can also argue this all day, unless someone here has sat in the cockpit throughout a flight.

Oh? So you're saying that you don't have to turn at all in order to circumnavigate the Earth on the round Earth model? You mean to say that if you were to fly along the equator for some forty-thousand kilometers that you wouldn't be traveling around in a circle? Please explain to me, then, how would one reach the point where he originally began if not via a circle. I'm curious to know.


~D-Draw

I actually explained it above.  The type of turning we were referring to was 2 dimensional turning (travelling straight along a line without deviating from it, with regard to the dimensions of depth and width - in front of you and to your left and right).  So when you travel along any great circle (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Great_circle), you do not turn left or right; the only dimension that changes is height.  Due to the small section of curvature we can view at any time, this change is not noticeable. 

This change is not, however, the same type of change going on when a person must constantly turn right or left (depending on if that person is travelling clockwise or counter-clockwise, respectively) in order to continue travelling exactly due east.
Along the equator on the RE model, one would not have to turn left or right at all in order to remain travelling exactly east.

We can argue this all day without going anywhere so theres no point perpetuating it.

Would it be easy to tell if your car had slightly misaligned wheels if every car you drove in your life had slightly misaligned wheels?

We can also argue this all day, unless someone here has sat in the cockpit throughout a flight.

TheEngineer is a pilot and engineer. He would know how planes operate.

We can also argue this all day, unless someone here has sat in the cockpit throughout a flight.

TheEngineer is a pilot and engineer. He would know how planes operate.
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Maybe he is a shitty pilot then?

Would it be easy to tell if your car had slightly misaligned wheels if every car you drove in your life had slightly misaligned wheels?

First of all, I wasn't talking about driving.  Secondly, Yes.  You could observe the flaws in one or more of the car's parts.  Do you know how many people work on cars as a hobby, let alone those who work on them for a living.  People would have noticed by now.

TheEngineer is a pilot and engineer. He would know how planes operate.

I did not know.  If he is, in fact, a pilot for a commercial airline, I dearly hope I don't find myself on one of his flights, given his attitude toward his job.

Also, this has nothing to do with how planes operate.  It has to do with how the pilots operate. 

Maybe he is a shitty pilot then?

Why would you say that?

I did not know.  If he is, in fact, a pilot for a commercial airline, I dearly hope I don't find myself on one of his flights, given his attitude toward his job.

What attitude do I have?  I think you fail to realize how automated aircraft are nowadays.

Quote from: The Philosopher on March 02, 2007, 09:31:44 PM

As implied above, pilots don't just not pay attention to their flight while auto pilot is on.

They don't.  They drink coffee and read magazines.  Oh, and every once and a while, they turn a knob.

Thats why.

You siad this about pilots. Someone said that is not the case. Tom said you would know sense you are one. Then I decided you must be a shitty pilot if thats what you do when you are on auto pilot. Yep...that brings us to date.

That's what commercial airline pilots do.  They punch some info into a computer, they taxi the airplane, take it off, push a button, drink some coffee, read a magazine, turn a knob when ATC wants them to change altitude, push a button to turn the autopilot off, land, taxi to the gate.  That's it.

What are they supposed to do for those five hours?

Not to add to the FE side of the debate but in fact Engineer is mostly right... in fact i was on a flight two weeks ago or so and, after we landed the pilot came over the intercom to tell us that we had just experienced a TOTALLY automated landing... with ZERO pilot intervention... AKA the pilot hadn't finished a paragraph in his magazine... but we aren't discussing flying...any means of travel that would take some one due east where you could go DUE east ........ok this would be a great experiment... if im not mistaken some gps devices will tell your lat long position right, so then as you set your heading to due east and go and when you latitude changes slightly some hours later.... FE crap is done 

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if im not mistaken some gps devices will tell your lat long position right, so then as you set your heading to due east and go and when you latitude changes slightly some hours later.... FE crap is done 

If you went due east, your latitude would never change.

i believe you are miss interpreting me the idea is that you will set your heading and not make any turns with you checking your compass to ensure that you were heading due east once the experiment was under way... get it ?

Yes, that's how I understood it.  If you travel east, you will never change your latitude.

yes it would, beacuse if you are start facing due east and go straight with out ever redirecting your heading, before long you will be traveling east south east and then south east and every one knows that when you go south you change position in latitude but on flat earth if you go due east your latitude will never change...

yes it would, beacuse if you are start facing due east and go straight with out ever redirecting your heading, before long you will be traveling east south east and then south east and every one knows that when you go south you change position in latitude but on flat earth if you go due east your latitude will never change...

How would you know you were going straight?