A few queries.

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A few queries.
« on: February 17, 2007, 05:10:17 PM »
Things are forged in heat; they have to be. If you believe in atoms - which you apparently do - then you must believe that.

Water has to cool and become liquid before it can become solid. How would it form a perfect ice wall around the whole world before it simply flowed off the side, against this gravity-due-to-acceleration? Also, if the earth doesn't have its own significant gravitational pull towards its center of mass, why would a massive quantity of water vapour stay with it long enough to cool down and form seas?

Why do we even have any air around us, for that matter? If your theory requires an ice wall to hold in the world's water, it must require some kind of barrior to hold in air, which is also a fluid... and hence would flow right off the side of the earth.

What is causing the earth to accelerate? If the earth is just a huge mass of non-descript substances, why does this force not act on everything on top of the earth as well, nulifying the effect of gravity?

Some people seem to have put a huge amount of effort and probably money into conducting experiments to decide whether they believe that the earth is flat. Would it not make more sense to simply shedule a trans-atlantic flight, and sit on the plane the entire journey looking at your compass and a timer, and then do the same crossing the pacific?

I saw something in the FAQ saying that your theory suggests that a compass would always point towards the center of the earth. If this is true, you could schedule a trans-atlantic/pacific (wherever you think the ice wall is) flight. If the pilot flew around half the circumference of the earth your compass would point consistently in the same direction as expected. If you then flew over what you percieve to be the center of the earth, your compass would flip around mid flight. You cant have it both ways...

A few queries.
« Reply #1 on: February 17, 2007, 06:46:21 PM »
You spend a lot of time complaining about trolls for a group of people who wont answer a few very simple and politely phrased questions. It's not exactly encouraging.

A few queries.
« Reply #2 on: February 18, 2007, 08:21:57 AM »
.

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joffenz

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Re: A few queries.
« Reply #3 on: February 18, 2007, 08:58:22 AM »
Quote from: "Tosh"
Things are forged in heat; they have to be...


Well firstly, remember there is no unfied FE theory. Each FE'er has his own beliefs, and usually there are several different explanations for each event.

One explanation is that during the last ice age most of the world would have been covered in ice. Since the Ice Wall is faw away from the sun, it is colder then the rest of the world, hence it is frozen.

Quote from: "Tosh"
Why do we even have any air around us, for that matter? If your theory requires an ice wall to hold in the world's water, it must require some kind of barrior to hold in air, which is also a fluid... and hence would flow right off the side of the earth.


Why does the barrier need to be liquid? Solids are just as good (in fact, better) than liquids.

What you'll probably say next is, "how come air doesn't go over the Ice Wall if the Ice Wall is only 150ft?"

To which I say; "I don't know" :p

Quote from: "Tosh"
What is causing the earth to accelerate? If the earth is just a huge mass of non-descript substances, why does this force not act on everything on top of the earth as well, nulifying the effect of gravity?


The force is called Dark Energy and no RE'er can fully explain it, so we don't have to either.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dark_energy

Quote from: "Tosh"
Some people seem to have put a huge amount of effort ...


I'm not sure what that would prove, the distances are mostly the same in RE as they are in FE over the pacific/atlantic.

Quote from: "Tosh"
I saw something in the FAQ saying that your theory suggests that a compass would always point towards the center of the earth. ...


The Ice Wall is where Antarctica is located on the RE model. The problem with trying to prove it's existence is that if the Earth is round, you fly over Antarctica, and if the Earth is flat you fly over the edge of the world and die.

Re: A few queries.
« Reply #4 on: February 18, 2007, 09:27:07 AM »
Quote from: "cheesejoff"
Quote from: "Tosh"
Things are forged in heat; they have to be...


Well firstly, remember there is no unfied FE theory. Each FE'er has his own beliefs, and usually there are several different explanations for each event.

One explanation is that during the last ice age most of the world would have been covered in ice. Since the Ice Wall is faw away from the sun, it is colder then the rest of the world, hence it is frozen.

No, but for there to have been any kind of ice age at all some vapour would have first had to cool down to form water (before ice), which would simply have flown off the side of the earth. Unless it was also subject to this apparent dark energy, in which case water on earth would experience no gravitiational force (which it obviously does...).

Quote
Quote from: "Tosh"
Why do we even have any air around us, for that matter? If your theory requires an ice wall to hold in the world's water, it must require some kind of barrior to hold in air, which is also a fluid... and hence would flow right off the side of the earth.

Why does the barrier need to be liquid? Solids are just as good (in fact, better) than liquids.

What you'll probably say next is, "how come air doesn't go over the Ice Wall if the Ice Wall is only 150ft?"

To which I say; "I don't know" :p

I was referring to air being a fluid, not the barrier. So my orginal point was in fact that air would flow off the side of the earth. Which you obviously just said you dont know. This means that the assumption that there must be an ice wall to hold in the world's water is entirely without foundation, as it would make more sense to assume that whatever mystical barrier is holding in the atmosphere would also be holding in the world's water.

I dont really see how you can counter that; there is nothing at all to indicate that an ice wall must exist when you take the presence of the atmosphere into account.

Quote
Quote from: "Tosh"
What is causing the earth to accelerate? If the earth is just a huge mass of non-descript substances, why does this force not act on everything on top of the earth as well, nulifying the effect of gravity?


The force is called Dark Energy and no RE'er can fully explain it, so we don't have to either.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dark_energy

But we dont base the most fundemental part of our theory on it... If our theory is complete and everything adds up, i dont see why anyone would choose an incomplete theory instead. Now, i dont know much about dark energy, but you're saying this unexplainable energy is for some reason propelling the earth through space, but nothing on top of the earth? That doesn't seem to add up either, doesn't sound like a properly constructed theory at all.

Quote
Quote from: "Tosh"
Some people seem to have put a huge amount of effort ...


I'm not sure what that would prove, the distances are mostly the same in RE as they are in FE over the pacific/atlantic.

... so then where do you think the ice wall is? I assumed it would have to go through one of those seas. The point is, you could book a flight over where you think the ice wall is, and if the crazy conspiring pilot took the long way around the circumference of the earth to trick you, you would notice.

Quote
Quote from: "Tosh"
I saw something in the FAQ saying that your theory suggests that a compass would always point towards the center of the earth. ...


The Ice Wall is where Antarctica is located on the RE model. The problem with trying to prove it's existence is that if the Earth is round, you fly over Antarctica, and if the Earth is flat you fly over the edge of the world and die.

You missed the point. Your model states that if a pilot tricks you by flying around the circumference of the flat world, the compass would behave normally and you would know. For this to be true, that would mean flying over the central point of the earth (which is not guarded by this mysterious government) would cause your compass to flip around mid-flight, proving your theory. In practise, this doesn't happen anywhere apart from the north & south pole, which your model does not place in the center of the earth.

A few queries.
« Reply #5 on: February 18, 2007, 12:52:37 PM »
...

Anyone else?

I read something else which would suggest you believe that the northpole IS the center of the world. However, this would really balls up the whole issue with having a southpole, wouldn't it? Yet again, you cant have it both ways.

A few queries.
« Reply #6 on: February 18, 2007, 01:08:25 PM »
Tosh wins, RE basis it's "theory" on readily explainable and proven facts, where FE is based entirely on Dark Matter and Dark Energy. Find a solid basis and then come back.
he earth IS round, there IS a God, and you can't accurately prove a negative. (i.e. the earth is NOT round)

A few queries.
« Reply #7 on: February 18, 2007, 03:00:13 PM »
BUMP
he earth IS round, there IS a God, and you can't accurately prove a negative. (i.e. the earth is NOT round)

A few queries.
« Reply #8 on: February 18, 2007, 03:01:18 PM »
It's the Shadow Object that does it all!

A few queries.
« Reply #9 on: February 18, 2007, 04:02:41 PM »
Looks like tosh did win.

=|

Re: A few queries.
« Reply #10 on: February 22, 2007, 10:48:30 AM »
I was realy hoping this would have gotten a response by now. It's been bumped enough times.

Surely there needs to be either a response or a concession?

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TheEngineer

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Re: A few queries.
« Reply #11 on: February 22, 2007, 12:51:14 PM »
I read something else which would suggest you believe that the northpole IS the center of the world. However, this would really balls up the whole issue with having a southpole, wouldn't it?
No.  But it would be nice to see your thought process on the matter.


"I haven't been wrong since 1961, when I thought I made a mistake."
        -- Bob Hudson

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unclegravy

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Re: A few queries.
« Reply #12 on: February 22, 2007, 03:08:56 PM »
Tosh has two questionss which I see as valid:
1. Why doesn't the atmosphere, being fluid, just "leak" away from earth.

This question has been asked a few times, and the closest thing to an answer I got was, "The Ice Wall keeps the atmosphere", which was supplied by none other than our all-time favorite Flat-earther, Tom Bishop! Give it up for Tom!

2. How was the ice wall formed?
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The people who feast on exclamation marks will never go hungry agaaaain!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Re: A few queries.
« Reply #13 on: February 22, 2007, 04:53:08 PM »
I read something else which would suggest you believe that the northpole IS the center of the world. However, this would really balls up the whole issue with having a southpole, wouldn't it?
No.  But it would be nice to see your thought process on the matter.
The behaviour of the magnetic field that the earth is subject to would indicate that there is a southpole. That model would suggest a gigantic evenly distributed circular pole balanced against the north pole, surrounding the entire world. I dont think that's even possible.
« Last Edit: February 22, 2007, 04:54:47 PM by Tosh »

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Dioptimus Drime

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Re: A few queries.
« Reply #14 on: February 22, 2007, 08:09:48 PM »
Tosh has two questionss which I see as valid:
1. Why doesn't the atmosphere, being fluid, just "leak" away from earth.
Have you ever spun a bucket full of water around in circles? Does that water leak out?

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2. How was the ice wall formed?
My speculation is that there was a lot of ice on top of the Earth first (due to the fact that there was rapid transformation between vapor and solid because of the extreme cold of space), and then eventually the sun came into orbit around the top of the Earth and it melted away a lot of the ice on the top, leaving sort of a 'wall' around the edge of the Earth because it is far away from the sun and space is still really, really cold. The North pole also didn't thaw all the way, obviously.

~D-Draw

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unclegravy

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Re: A few queries.
« Reply #15 on: February 22, 2007, 10:56:13 PM »
So you're saying the earth is shaped like a bucket, and all the gasses are contained in it?
No man, there's at least a few kilometers separating the outermost layer of the atmosphere from the outermost layer of the "lithosphere".
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The people who feast on exclamation marks will never go hungry agaaaain!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Re: A few queries.
« Reply #16 on: February 27, 2007, 09:05:31 AM »
Tosh has two questionss which I see as valid:
1. Why doesn't the atmosphere, being fluid, just "leak" away from earth.
Have you ever spun a bucket full of water around in circles? Does that water leak out?
Nuh uh, the atmosphere cannot be contained by this ice wall, it has to be above it according to your theory. The theory states that the conspiracy is there to hide the damning effects of global warming on the ice wall, but if there were no atmosphere between the light source and the ice wall, global warming would be nothing compared to the effect of direct sunlight.