Elephants and Turtles...

I just joined today mostly becuase I like to study the unexplained. I like to think of myself as an 'open-minded' individual but not one that believes anything he hears. I find your theories fascinating... but some, almost laughable.

I believe in life on other planets(avatar), I believe in Creation over Darwin's theories of Evolution. I believe there is alot of things not yet explained in this world like, Stonehenge, Easter Islands, the mystery behing Ley lines, and much more...The Illuminati for example is a very fascinating subject... and almost scary.

500 years ago, we thought the world was flat. Then I found this site that wants to deny the last 500 years of history and knowledge... interesting. Prove it... I thought, I'm listening.

I read your FAQ and to be honest I like the way you guys think...
There is however the question of "why" would anybody deny the world is flat? ... I dont think money is a reasonable answer. Another thing, giant Elephants and Turtles carrying the world on their back as we accelerate through space at the speed of gravity seems something out of a fable told to 5 year olds.
What exactly is the Turtle's job? is it as big as the Elephants? Otherwise I dont see the Turtle being able to carry much of the weight.
Please dont think of me as making fun of your theories, they are serious questions... I simply want to know your logic behind this.

That was sarcasm. The earth, as well as virtually everything in the universe is accelerating upward (up, of course is just a word describing the direction).

I believe in life on other planets(avatar), I believe in Creation over Darwin's theories of Evolution. I believe there is alot of things not yet explained in this world like, Stonehenge, Easter Islands, the mystery behing Ley lines, and much more...The Illuminati for example is a very fascinating subject... and almost scary.

You sound like a rich personality, though the Creationism thing might be a sort of downer to you here (a helluva lot of the regulars here--self included--are atheists). Meh.

500 years ago, we thought the world was flat. Then I found this site that wants to deny the last 500 years of history and knowledge... interesting. Prove it... I thought, I'm listening.

I read your FAQ and to be honest I like the way you guys think...
There is however the question of "why" would anybody deny the world is flat? ... I dont think money is a reasonable answer. Another thing, giant Elephants and Turtles carrying the world on their back as we accelerate through space at the speed of gravity seems something out of a fable told to 5 year olds.
What exactly is the Turtle's job? is it as big as the Elephants? Otherwise I dont see the Turtle being able to carry much of the weight.
Please dont think of me as making fun of your theories, they are serious questions... I simply want to know your logic behind this.

Don't worry about making fun of that bit. It was just a small bit of humor, a reference to Terry Pratchett's Discworld series, which in turn is an allusion to some archaic Hindu beliefs.

~D-Draw



[/quote]

I just joined today mostly becuase I like to study the unexplained. I like to think of myself as an 'open-minded' individual but not one that believes anything he hears. I find your theories fascinating... but some, almost laughable.

I believe in life on other planets(avatar), I believe in Creation over Darwin's theories of Evolution. I believe there is alot of things not yet explained in this world like, Stonehenge, Easter Islands, the mystery behing Ley lines, and much more...The Illuminati for example is a very fascinating subject... and almost scary.

500 years ago, we thought the world was flat. Then I found this site that wants to deny the last 500 years of history and knowledge... interesting. Prove it... I thought, I'm listening.

I read your FAQ and to be honest I like the way you guys think...
There is however the question of "why" would anybody deny the world is flat? ... I dont think money is a reasonable answer. Another thing, giant Elephants and Turtles carrying the world on their back as we accelerate through space at the speed of gravity seems something out of a fable told to 5 year olds.
What exactly is the Turtle's job? is it as big as the Elephants? Otherwise I dont see the Turtle being able to carry much of the weight.
Please dont think of me as making fun of your theories, they are serious questions... I simply want to know your logic behind this.

stonehenge and eastern islands were the mole people
http://theflatearthsociety.org/forum/index.php?topic=10909.0

I like to think of myself as an 'open-minded' individual.

I believe in Creation over Darwin's theories of Evolution.

That's clearly a contradiction.  If you choose to believe in creation, you are choosing dogmatic belief over evidence.  You talk of a "fable told to 5 year olds" yet you believe that all humanity descends from 8 people and that 2 of every species of animal in the world were put on one boat to survive a giant flood.  The evidence for such a belief is mainly a book that is full of contradictions and historical inaccuracies.  Yet you choose to believe that over the enormous wealth of different evidence that supports evolution.  When you consider that we've actually observed species evolve into new species (source), it seems hard to deny that evolution occurs.  You claim to be open minded, but the evidence clearly shows that you are not at all.

Quote from: avaholik on February 26, 2007, 04:06:02 PM

I like to think of myself as an 'open-minded' individual.

I believe in Creation over Darwin's theories of Evolution.

That's clearly a contradiction.  If you choose to believe in creation, you are choosing dogmatic belief over evidence.  You talk of a "fable told to 5 year olds" yet you believe that all humanity descends from 8 people and that 2 of every species of animal in the world were put on one boat to survive a giant flood.  The evidence for such a belief is mainly a book that is full of contradictions and historical inaccuracies.  Yet you choose to believe that over the enormous wealth of different evidence that supports evolution.  When you consider that we've actually observed species evolve into new species (source), it seems hard to deny that evolution occurs.  You claim to be open minded, but the evidence clearly shows that you are not at all.

OH SWEET CAKE OF IRONY HOW I LOVE TO BITE INTO YOUR CRISP ICING EXTERIOR AND SINK MY TEETH INTO YOUR SOFT GOOEY INNARDS!!!!

That was sarcasm. The earth, as well as virtually everything in the universe is accelerating upward (up, of course is just a word describing the direction).

Of course, none of the carbon copies who spout this ever answer the question of "what, exactly, is UP?"

But I digress. It's all a lot of fascinating piss takes on both sides.

Quote from: YL Groper on February 26, 2007, 04:22:31 PM

That was sarcasm. The earth, as well as virtually everything in the universe is accelerating upward (up, of course is just a word describing the direction).

Of course, none of the carbon copies who spout this ever answer the question of "what, exactly, is UP?"

But I digress. It's all a lot of fascinating piss takes on both sides.

I have, hundreds of times.

Up is a user defined vector that is a normal to the planar surface of the earth.

EARTH IS FLAT ALL FEERS ARE STUPID!!!!EARTH IS FLAT ALL FEERS ARE STUPID!!!!
EARTH IS FLAT ALL FEERS ARE STUPID!!!!EARTH IS FLAT ALL FEERS ARE STUPID!!!!
EARTH IS FLAT ALL FEERS ARE STUPID!!!!EARTH IS FLAT ALL FEERS ARE STUPID!!!!EARTH IS FLAT ALL FEERS ARE STUPID!!!!EARTH IS FLAT ALL FEERS ARE STUPID!!!! EARTH IS FLAT ALL FEERS ARE STUPID!!!!EARTH IS FLAT ALL FEERS ARE STUPID!!!!
EARTH IS FLAT ALL FEERS ARE STUPID!!!!EARTH IS FLAT ALL FEERS ARE STUPID!!!!
EARTH IS FLAT ALL FEERS ARE STUPID!!!!EARTH IS FLAT ALL FEERS ARE STUPID!!!!EARTH IS FLAT ALL FEERS ARE STUPID!!!!EARTH IS FLAT ALL FEERS ARE STUPID!!!!
EARTH IS FLAT ALL FEERS ARE STUPID!!!!EARTH IS FLAT ALL FEERS ARE STUPID!!!!
EARTH IS FLAT ALL FEERS ARE STUPID!!!!EARTH IS FLAT ALL FEERS ARE STUPID!!!!EARTH IS FLAT ALL FEERS ARE STUPID!!!!EARTH IS FLAT ALL FEERS ARE STUPID!!!! EARTH IS FLAT ALL FEERS ARE STUPID!!!!EARTH IS FLAT ALL FEERS ARE STUPID!!!!
EARTH IS FLAT ALL FEERS ARE STUPID!!!!EARTH IS FLAT ALL FEERS ARE STUPID!!!!
EARTH IS FLAT ALL FEERS ARE STUPID!!!!EARTH IS FLAT ALL FEERS AREfSTUPID!!!! IDIIOTS IDIOTS IDIOTS

voteban

Yes, I knew the elephants and turtles were only references and were not to take literally, otherwise that would be nonsense right. And, again, yes, thanks for noticing the Sarcasm in my posts, I can't live without it... No, Seriously.
To answer the 'contradicting myself' thing, well... just because I said I have an open mind, that doesn't mean I can't believe in one thing over the other. Having an open mind simply means you would be able to (with enough evidence on facts!) change my mind to view things differently. An open mind allows me to accept and view things from your point of view. I just lean towards Creation more than to Evolution, however, it's not something I see as a fact. (By the way... whoever said Creation started with 8 people? Creation started with one man, Adam... not with the survivors on Noah's Ark) Correct me if I'm wrong but Darwin basically said that there was once a 'big bang' and boom all the pieces fell in the right place, all the chemicals just happend to collapse together, and there it was... the first living cell. Then... that cell reproduced... 2 cells, and so on and a million years later, we had fish! Then Amphibians... then birds, then mammals, then us!?? I would believe in a flat world then this before...wait....nevermind.
You're telling me to believe that I came from a fish?! So.... my pet goldfish could be related to my great great great great great great grandfather??? I rather believe my Girlfriend and I share the same great great great lol great grandpa...I find it easier to believe in a higher power who once said, "let there be light" and with no need for proof, there it was... Tell me, has Science ever found fossils of the transitional animals? How did a fish just decided to grow legs? Why did the reptile decide to exchange it's front legs for wings? Have you ever seen a reptile with wings instead of two front legs? But there must be evidence that it once existed right? What about transitions between birds and mammals? what a Penguin? lol, One more thing before I leave evolution alone, did you know the most complete neantherdal we (scientists) have found was from an ape... the "kneecaps" that made it a 'cave man' were found 100 miles away..."oh they must belong to the monkey bones we found over there guys...it was our ancestors!" Did you know the skulls and other 'cave man' bones have been proven to be from birth defects and other diseases from ancient humans... you guys of all people should have an open mind to at least accept other possibilities. (More on Evolution... http://video.google.com/googleplayer.swf?&autoplay=true&docid=-8438721530266145746&q=The

Enough about Evolution, that I'm sure belongs in another thread... and as far as creation, I'm sure that is Taboo by this site just like any other... religion is not easily tolerated everywhere...(lets leave that subject alone please) And I dont mean to sound mad I'm simply trying to make a point that believing in something doesn't mean I can't have an open mind to the opposite... you just have to prove me wrong. By the way, have any of you guys ever been on a plane, or on a hot air balloon, or simply high up on a mountain somewhere? You can clearly see a curvature in the horizon. And the furthest the mountains appear in the distance the lower they seem to be... are they sinking in the ground? How do you argue the curve in the horizon?

Don't believe me? take a hike to your highest mountain, take a look around... the world is round. You have to learn to accept it. But If I'm wrong, then 500 years of Science are also wrong... the last 100 years have provided us with Science facts we couldn't even dream about 500 years ago... you guys are saying the most Scientific era in history has been nothing but a joke?

like I said, im willing to accept that the world is flat, only if you provide me with enough evidence.
Your FAQ was a great start, however it forgot to mentioned why the latest hummer commercial has one going from California to China... yup, right through the middle of the earth! What now? You're going to tell me Hummer is also using special effects?

What what the world be like if you dont have fun?...

Quote from: avaholik on February 26, 2007, 04:06:02 PM

I believe in life on other planets(avatar), I believe in Creation over Darwin's theories of Evolution. I believe there is alot of things not yet explained in this world like, Stonehenge, Easter Islands, the mystery behing Ley lines, and much more...The Illuminati for example is a very fascinating subject... and almost scary.

You sound like a rich personality, though the Creationism thing might be a sort of downer to you here (a helluva lot of the regulars here--self included--are atheists). Meh.

I've been reading these posts all night out of curiosity, but this was the first one that really pushed me to make a post myself. DiegoDraw, I've read several of your posts and you seem to be one of the outspoken FErs and it really surprises me that you identify yourself as an athiest. I was under the impression that most FErs would be Christian Fundamentalists. I myself am an agnostic, and I've always found other agnostics and atheists to be extremly skeptical people and I find it hard to believe that a skeptic could find the Flat Earth theory believable. I'd really like to know what drew you towards this theory and why you find it credible.

PS Big fan of the discworld books, have any FErs theorized that light acts as it does in those books? As a slow moving molasses-like force?

Ava...You're joking right? There aren't "transition" animals because the deviation of the species took millions of years. It isn't a conscious decision. As far as fish sprouting legs...there is an animal that is alive today that has that feature. Have you ever heard of a mudskipper? http://www.naturia.per.sg/buloh/verts/mudskipper.htm It's a fish that uses its its front fins as "legs" to push itself across areas of land to more watery ones. And there were "reptiles with wings" dimetredon for example. We have been able to witness evolution in action over the course of a single human generation (fruit fly experiments) have yielded an insect so different from the starting culture that it was classified as a new species. Its adaptation. Also the single cell didn't magically divide. The standing theory is complex chains of amino acids that consumed other chains in order to use cellular respiration. These amino acid chains over the course of a billion years became increasingly more complex, resulting in the first single cellular organism. There is no giant leap from one animal to the next, simply enough slight variance that we can then classify it as significantly different from the one that we were originally comparing it to. At any rate, this is far too long to go into here. I suggest buying any basic collegiate level biology book and reading chapters 1 and 2. Also, Neanderthal man is NOT one of our ancestors, humans and Neanderthal lived at the same time, first encountering each other in Eastern Europe.  In fact, the only reason that we are the dominant species today and they are not (their brain was 200cc bigger than ours) is the result of a warming climate and receding dense forest. Their bodies were designed for short bursts of speed, cold weather, and hunting in densely wooded areas. When Europe began to come out of the ice age they weren't out competed by the incoming homo sapiens, they simply died off due to a lack of hunting ground and inclimate heat. Think current global warming making the planet too hot for us right now. They merely shared a common ancestor with us. Homo Habilis, Homo Heidelbergensis, Robust and Gracile Australopithecus, THOSE were our common ancestors.

side note - i tried watching that video you posted...but couldn't take it after about 25-30 minutes. As soon as the narrator put words in the interviewee's mouths instead of actually letting them say whatever they had to say, i had to shut it down. Quite possibly one of the most biased, fraudulent, and simply mistaken videos I have ever seen. Just because you put someone in front of some books or rocks, doesn't make them an expert in any given field. Also, clearly notice how anyone who agrees with the point of the video is given long, uninterrupted, speaking time. But anyone who opposes the view is put into short sound bytes and often drowned out by the narrator saying why they are wrong.

the fact the video is called "the Evolution Conspiracy" should be proof enough in the first 30 seconds it was going to be a biased load of propaganda.

(By the way... whoever said Creation started with 8 people? Creation started with one man, Adam... not with the survivors on Noah's Ark)

I did not say that creation started with 8 people, have trouble reading?  I said that according to creationism humanity descends from 8 people.  Who said this?  Well these websites for a start;

http://www.creationevidence.org/scientific_evid/evidencefor/evidencefor.html
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Young_Earth_creationism
http://www.ratbags.com/rsoles/comment/creationdebate1.htm
http://www.grandrivermuseum.org/Creation%20Science.htm
http://www.talkorigins.org/indexcc/CB/CB620.html

Obviously you know more about your beliefs than these people do, I was just putting forward the view that I have read countless times.

Correct me if I'm wrong but Darwin basically said that there was once a 'big bang' and boom all the pieces fell in the right place, all the chemicals just happend to collapse together, and there it was... the first living cell. Then... that cell reproduced... 2 cells, and so on and a million years later, we had fish! Then Amphibians... then birds, then mammals, then us!??

You are completely wrong.  You are wrong about the following points;

1. Darwin did not come up with the Big Bang theory, it was conceptualised 45 years after Darwin's death and 68 years after he wrote On the Origin of Species
source, source

2.  Darwin did not claim that the first living cell was created in one instant, nor did it he claim that all life originates from one cell.  In fact Darwin did not publish any claims as to the origin of life.  Darwin wrote about the evidence he saw, that clearly demonstrates that life evolves.  Darwin suggested how he thought life may have been created in a letter to Joseph Hooker.  It wasn't until 1924 that Aleksandr Oparin published The Origin of Life On Earth, which demonstrated how life could have began.
source, source

3.  Fish did not take 1 million years to evolve from the first life, it's estimate that they took at about 2,000,000,000 - as you can see, your estimate was wrong by a factor of 2000.
source

I would believe in a flat world then this before...wait....nevermind.

Nobody believes that the Earth is flat.  If you go through my posts, you can see that in the past I've made this abundantly clear.  I post on this forum because I see it as a challenge to dogmatically held beliefs, like your belief in creationism.
source

Tell me, has Science ever found fossils of the transitional animals?

Yes.  Here is a diagram showing the evolution of the ear, as based on fossil records;

Anti-evolutionists commonly claim that there simply are no fossils of transitional forms at all. They state that all fossils are of "distinct species", believing that a transitional fossil should be some kind of incompletely formed animal. This is not what transitional forms are though. There are actually two types of transitional forms, specific features that are physically intermediate between other features, and whole organisms that contain a mix of features from different taxa.

source

How did a fish just decided to grow legs?

Fish did not "decide" to grow legs.  As there became more land, greater opportunities for survival appeared on land.  Some fish presumably beached themselves and over generations, the fish that were best at beaching themselves (to get food or whatever) and getting back in the water developed longer more leg like flippers and better skills at surviving out of water.  There are also a number of examples of fish that walk on the surface underwater, using their flippers as legs.

Why did the reptile decide to exchange it's front legs for wings? Have you ever seen a reptile with wings instead of two front legs? But there must be evidence that it once existed right?

Yes, there is plenty of evidence of reptiles that had wings instead of front legs.  The obvious example is Pteranodons - which were large flying reptiles.

Pteranodon were reptiles, but not dinosaurs.

source

Did you know the skulls and other 'cave man' bones have been proven to be from birth defects and other diseases from ancient humans...

You claim that this is true, but I'd like to see a verified scientific source that this claim is true, such as I have provided for all my evidence.  The fact is that your claim is completely false.  You've either made it up, or you're too gullible or ignorant to understand what scientific proof is.  Because you have a closed mind, you refuse to believe the enormous wealth of evidence in support of evolution, and instead choose to believe the simple myths that you can actually understand.

Why do creationists have such a problem believing that they ARE NOT IMPORTANT. in the grand scheme of life on earth, no human being's life is important, unless you end the world. Which in the grand scheme of the cosmos, also is not important. Why is there this driving need to feel like you matter? Why not just enjoy your time here and your life for what it is. Just because its kind of depressing to think that no matter what you do it doesn't really make any difference does not mean that you should ignore the plethora of evidence that surrounds you. I don't feel the need to believe that there is some omnipotent super-being watching my back in order to go about my day and feel good (I am not willing to completely dismiss the possibility that there is one though. Agnosticism is really the way to go)  Why do you? Are you that insecure in your own actions?

Well, I should have known this was going to create a God vs Science war...


But as far as 'Creationism'... well this story comes from the Bible and it started with one man, Adam. So I dont care what any other book or site or scientist says about it. Not to contradict my 'open mind' but why discuss 'Viewsonic monitors with Sony when Viewsonic made them?'.

When it comes to transitions between animals, ok thanks for the pictures. I'm convinced that amphibians came from fish. (Didn't we already knew that?) Just remember these transitions didn't happen over night, so these transiotional animals lived on the earth for millions of years before eventually evolving into the next transition. So then, you have shown me a fish with legs, great. What about all the other thousand of species? If they lived for millions of years, where are their fossils? All I'm saying there is more evidence to convince me of a flat earth atm than there is of evolution.

And thanks for noticing my sarcastic comparisons of fish taking a million years to evolve... that was not to be taken seriously... like just about everything else I say.

and when talking about Darwin and the Big Bang, it's like talking about nuts and cashews...
oh and thanks for showing me how the jaw evolved from a  dinosaur's jaw to a dog's jaw... great drawings.
unfortunately... that's all that is, just drawings of assumptions.

Like I said, I have an open mind, but I'm not easily convinced... drawings, pictures, he said, she said...
that's what they said about the world being round... and here you are arguing over it.

lol

This person is an idiot, don't waste any more time on him, Beast. Your intellect is squandered on this troglodyte. He doesn't understand that the bible is literally a 'he said she said' book. The authors didn't even wear underwear. Would you listen to someone now who didn't know how to wash their nuts? I sure wouldn't.

Quote from: SPrinkZ on February 27, 2007, 09:50:59 AM

This person is an idiot, don't waste any more time on him, Beast. Your intellect is squandered on this troglodyte. He doesn't understand that the bible is literally a 'he said she said' book. The authors didn't even wear underwear. Would you listen to someone now who didn't know how to wash their nuts? I sure wouldn't.

Kiss ass much?

this would be a perfect moment to place about 6 laughing smileys, to bad they took them off 

Quote from: SPrinkZ on February 27, 2007, 09:50:59 AM

This person is an idiot, don't waste any more time on him, Beast. Your intellect is squandered on this troglodyte. He doesn't understand that the bible is literally a 'he said she said' book. The authors didn't even wear underwear. Would you listen to someone now who didn't know how to wash their nuts? I sure wouldn't.

Kiss ass much?

I lawled.

The authors didn't even wear underwear.

My best friend doesn't  wear underwear.  Got something against him, too?

Cybersex is the ONLY sex.

In my experience... chicks that dont wear undies have stinkier crotches.

What experience?

I think you missed a certain quote.  Here, I'll show it to you again.

Cybersex is the ONLY sex.

See?

Based on this, right?

The experience of sleeping with several women.

Yeah, the herp's gotta suck, don't it?

What about teh phone sex0rs?

Yeah, I guess it could be a bit awkward to pay a buck ten per minute just to have a one-sided phone conversation...

Quote from: cadmium_blimp on February 27, 2007, 11:46:23 AM

Quote from: theonlydann on February 23, 2007, 12:38:46 PM

Cybersex is the ONLY sex.

Quote from: theonlydann on February 27, 2007, 11:41:27 AM

In my experience... chicks that dont wear undies have stinkier crotches.

What experience?

The experience of sleeping with several women.

Named Bob.

Quote from: cadmium_blimp on February 27, 2007, 11:46:23 AM

Quote from: theonlydann on February 23, 2007, 12:38:46 PM

Cybersex is the ONLY sex.

Quote from: theonlydann on February 27, 2007, 11:41:27 AM

In my experience... chicks that dont wear undies have stinkier crotches.

What experience?

The experience of sleeping with several women.

Dude, maybe its just me. But I dont think I would be bragging about about sleeping with women whos cooters stink. I mean sure I've been there, but I dont go to my friends doin the "smell this stench". Hahah ok ok, so i DID do that once, but that was only cuz it left my fist (yes fist) smelling so damn foul I had to wait for the skin on my hand to die and regrow to get the smell off.

This person is an idiot, don't waste any more time on him, Beast. Your intellect is squandered on this troglodyte. He doesn't understand that the bible is literally a 'he said she said' book. The authors didn't even wear underwear. Would you listen to someone now who didn't know how to wash their nuts? I sure wouldn't.

I was talking to the head of the circus not with his animals! who the fuck are you to judge the bible?!

Quote from: SPrinkZ on February 27, 2007, 09:50:59 AM

This person is an idiot, don't waste any more time on him, Beast. Your intellect is squandered on this troglodyte. He doesn't understand that the bible is literally a 'he said she said' book. The authors didn't even wear underwear. Would you listen to someone now who didn't know how to wash their nuts? I sure wouldn't.

I was talking to the head of the circus not with his animals! who the fuck are you to judge the bible?!

I could comment on that sentence with maniacal glee, but I will pass.