Why A Geokinetic Became A Geocentrist

  • 71 Replies
  • 25421 Views
Why A Geokinetic Became A Geocentrist
« Reply #60 on: February 12, 2006, 10:39:13 PM »
Quote from: "Erasmus"
Whether or not they are true is up to debate

I don't know if it is really up to debate. You can accept it or reject it, or you can think about it, but up to debate... What can we debate?

Quote
You take their truth as a premise; we do not.

OK, that's fine with me, I have no problem.
But if someone ask me if I think the bible has facts, I'll answer, and I'll answer with what I believe the bible has, and they are not facts.

Quote
Instead, we ask you to justify your use of these propositions as truths.

I think that I already explained how it works.

Quote
"And on the third day, He rose from the dead, and revealed himself to his disciples," or whatever -- is that a true statement?

Well, I believe this is not a lie, and it is talking about something that heppened.

Quote
What evidence do you have to support it?

Did you read what I already wrote to you in all my posts?

Don't you realize Erasmus that you are not (and anybody is) the one that will say how the things must work? Sometimes the things are not as we supposed they should be, or as we expected, so we must pay attention to the infortmation that is provided to us and decide what we accept and what we do not accept.

Ask yourself what are you looking for.
If you are looking for scientific information of the existence of God, all you'll find are "the things made".
If you really need more, you have to ask God about that; because from me, I cannot povide more, and even less through a forum.

If you think it is like discussing with the flat earthers, I mean, because we have free time and it more entertaining than watching TV, in a discussion almost without purpose, I am not interested.
If you are interested because you would like to know more because you would like to believe in God (even when it may cause some shame to you to recognize it), I'll try to provide what I can, the answers that I have.
So...
If it is not anything of that, why are we talking about the bible?

?

6strings

  • The Elder Ones
  • 689
Why A Geokinetic Became A Geocentrist
« Reply #61 on: February 13, 2006, 04:14:38 PM »
Oh fucking Christ, Javier!  If a debate is to get anywhere, or resemble anything remotely logical, you can only cite facts, not what you believe, but cold hard facts.

Quote
I don't know if it is really up to debate. You can accept it or reject it, or you can think about it, but up to debate... What can we debate?

We can debate whether things the bible says happened actually did, in fact happen. we could debate whether the bible is the Word of God.  Wee could debate whether any of the "truths" you take for granted as being truisms are actually true.  Hell, we could debate as to whether killing is actually wrong (which I understand the Bible is fairly clear on).  Given that the Bible has little to no foundation on any real facts (by which I mean proven/provable facts), it's illogical to accept it as a source of arguments, given that it isn't necessarily true.

Quote
Don't you realize Erasmus that you are not (and anybody is) the one that will say how the things must work? Sometimes the things are not as we supposed they should be, or as we expected, so we must pay attention to the infortmation that is provided to us and decide what we accept and what we do not accept.

I'm sorry, but do you understand what an argument is?  Eramus isn't simply whimsically dictating what you can use as a proof and what you can't, he's just reminding you of the paramaters of proof for any logical argument, and pointing out that the Bible doesn't meet said parameters.

Quote
Ask yourself what are you looking for.
If you are looking for scientific information of the existence of God, all you'll find are "the things made".
If you really need more, you have to ask God about that; because from me, I cannot povide more, and even less through a forum.

Wait, so you mean you can't prove God's existance?  It's almost like that would invalidate his use in an argument of facts.

Quote
If it is not anything of that, why are we talking about the bible?

I was pointing out (like several others here) that you can't cite scripture in a logical argument, because it isn't proven fact.[/i]

?

Cinlef

  • The Elder Ones
  • 969
  • The Earth is a Sphere
Why A Geokinetic Became A Geocentrist
« Reply #62 on: February 13, 2006, 05:22:43 PM »
6strings is right. The only time you can cite Scripture is in an argument where somene else has already cited Scripture which I thought is what you were originally doing to refute Narrow PAth Pilgrims absurd interpretation twisting.
Cinlef
Truth is great and will prevail-Thomas Jefferson

I've said it before and I'll say it again, Cinlef is the bestest!

Melior est sapientia quam vires-Wisdom

Why A Geokinetic Became A Geocentrist
« Reply #63 on: February 13, 2006, 05:42:02 PM »
Sorry Cinlef, but that last post was nonsense.  Scripure can be cited anywher to demonstrate a pont.  

Of course it will still be bollocks. But!

Answers on a postcard
ts obvious isn't it.  No one can prove a damn thing.  Especially in this of all possible worlds. LOL

?

joffenz

  • The Elder Ones
  • 1272
Why A Geokinetic Became A Geocentrist
« Reply #64 on: February 14, 2006, 09:34:52 AM »
Yes it can be cited but that doesn't make it any more true than citing a fairy tale, or simply saying it yourself.

What you are doing isusing scripture to express what you believe, and assuming the other person will believe it also.

However this only works if the other person also believes in the bible. If not, you must use solid proof, hard evidence which does not depend on any point of view but it true regardless of what you believe.

?

Cinlef

  • The Elder Ones
  • 969
  • The Earth is a Sphere
Why A Geokinetic Became A Geocentrist
« Reply #65 on: February 14, 2006, 12:24:57 PM »
My point was it's legitimate to cite scriptue if someone else already has. For example Narrow Path Pilgrim said all Chrisitainas should believe in Geoncentricity as Geocentricity is how the Bible describes the solar system. Javier_Vierja rather than doing what Erasmus did and explaining why the Sun doesn';t orbit the Earth regardless of what the Bible said instead cited Scripture to show that geocentricity IS NOT WHAT THE BIBLE SAYS. His argument therefore shouldn't rest on the validity of the Bible but merely on whether or not he correctly called Narrow PAth Pilgrim out on his tendency to cite SCripture out of context therefore misrepresenting what it said. This doesn't invalidate Narrow Path Pilgrims initial premise (everything in the Bible is innerant divine truth) which you can and probably should take issue with. SScripture citing does kill his argument at Stament B) the Bible preaches geocentricity. The end result is the same
An annoyed
Cinlef
Truth is great and will prevail-Thomas Jefferson

I've said it before and I'll say it again, Cinlef is the bestest!

Melior est sapientia quam vires-Wisdom

?

6strings

  • The Elder Ones
  • 689
Why A Geokinetic Became A Geocentrist
« Reply #66 on: June 10, 2006, 07:06:36 PM »
Couldn't have posted somewhere a little more relevant?

Why A Geokinetic Became A Geocentrist
« Reply #67 on: June 11, 2006, 01:38:49 AM »
how the hell can you claim the bible is some holy book when people are finding it hard to prove the existance of a historical jesus now?

?

Erasmus

  • The Elder Ones
  • 4242
Why A Geokinetic Became A Geocentrist
« Reply #68 on: June 11, 2006, 11:20:57 AM »
Quote from: "troubadour"
how the hell can you claim the bible is some holy book when people are finding it hard to prove the existance of a historical jesus now?


It's easy.  All you have to do is not care about proof.
Why did the chicken cross the Möbius strip?

?

Cinlef

  • The Elder Ones
  • 969
  • The Earth is a Sphere
Why A Geokinetic Became A Geocentrist
« Reply #69 on: June 14, 2006, 07:09:59 AM »
Quote from: "troubadour"
how the hell can you claim the bible is some holy book when people are finding it hard to prove the existance of a historical jesus now?

What people?
A statement as vague as that means essentially nothing
An enraged
Cinlef
Truth is great and will prevail-Thomas Jefferson

I've said it before and I'll say it again, Cinlef is the bestest!

Melior est sapientia quam vires-Wisdom

Why A Geokinetic Became A Geocentrist
« Reply #70 on: June 14, 2006, 11:39:23 PM »
Quote from: "Cinlef"
Quote from: "troubadour"
how the hell can you claim the bible is some holy book when people are finding it hard to prove the existance of a historical jesus now?

What people?
A statement as vague as that means essentially nothing
An enraged
Cinlef


Ok, prove, from historical sources, that Jesus existed.

?

Cinlef

  • The Elder Ones
  • 969
  • The Earth is a Sphere
Why A Geokinetic Became A Geocentrist
« Reply #71 on: June 15, 2006, 08:04:05 AM »
No I understodod what you meant but what people are you saying are having trouble doing it? See thats important information. If its something like the North American University proffessor association then your raising a different type of point then if The Global Alliance of Atheist and Freethikers (please note I I am totally unware if either of those are real orginizations I just using those names to illustrrate my point) cannot seem to find a historical source to prove the existence of Jesus. So what people do you mean ?
A curious
Cinlef
Truth is great and will prevail-Thomas Jefferson

I've said it before and I'll say it again, Cinlef is the bestest!

Melior est sapientia quam vires-Wisdom