Round Earthers you must throw what you have been taught away

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bullhorn

  • Flat Earth Scientist
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Round Earthers you must throw what you have been taught away
« on: January 22, 2006, 10:53:56 PM »
There seems to be a vast amount of people on this forum that believe the Earth is round and few who believe the Earth is flat, very few actually believe that it is flat, I do.  Mathematics’ and the sciences seem to be used as evidence to try and prove that the Earth is round.  As we flat Earthers believe that educational institutions are full of liars it is hard for us to take seriously the tainted information that is used to put forward the view that the Earth is round.  Understand that it is difficult for us to combat your sciences because you always have another theory lined up, It all seems a little to convenient if you ask me.

Round Earthers you must throw what you have been taught away
« Reply #1 on: January 23, 2006, 12:32:44 AM »
Quote from: "bullhorn"
Understand that it is difficult for us to combat your sciences because you always have another theory lined up, It all seems a little to convenient if you ask me.


So you denounce science because it answers everything, or lots of things at least (but it's working on everything), but you readily accept a theory based on it-just-is-isms and don't-ask-questions-isms?

Yes, bullhorn, it really is convenient that science which has evolved and strengthened over many centuries to go from answering some things, to answering most things*. All that convenience! I mean, wow, cars are convenient. So is mass production. Hey, agriculture and farming is convenient. Computers and the Internet are pretty convenient. Wow, science is convenient and so is the world... that's coincidence, right? Or a government conspiracy?

Meanwhile how convenient is it that your Flat-Earth theory doesn't provide any answers to any real questions? You can't do a thing with your theories. You dispute our claims saying it's a government conspiracy, but don't offer any substantial alternative that can replace it.

All of us have said on countless occasions that if you could provide us with a mathematical model, a physical model or a scientific model of any sort that has been able to stand as much scrutiny as science has, then hey, we could convert. But all we get from you is a "believe me because I heard from someone who heard from someone" theory. Then when we ask the "yeah, but why?" question that science can stand up to, you either:[list=a]
  • shut up.
  • tell us we are government agents.
  • make up some flim-flam that still can't stand a "yeah, but why?" question.[/list:o]And then you expect us to throw away our rock solid doctrine so we can all stand around in your jelly-like theories all day. Like that horrible pineapple jelly that looks and tastes horrible. Go on, then. Prove it. Tell me your theory that stands up to the "yeah, but why?" tests. Why is the Earth flat? What's the theory? Can you make up enough non-contradictory statements to prove your point? That is my Round-Earth challenge to you!

    If you don't like our maths, use Flat-Earth maths. If you don't like our physics use your own. Whatever. As long as you can validate your theories with experiments (ie. prove them). I dare you to find a more complete model of the universe or even just of Earth than the model we give you.

    *I say most, but it's often said that "the more you know, the more you realise you don't know" and this is true for science as well. I mean, we still don't know to exactness, the processes of our sun. We don't have a 'quantum theory of relativity', which we very much want. And we don't have the technology for hyperdrive, hover cars, telportation, nanomachines, etc. We will though, and no doubt, when we do, we will have opened up even more questions that we will strive to answer.

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a

Round Earthers you must throw what you have been taught away
« Reply #2 on: January 23, 2006, 03:16:13 AM »
ok bullhorn its so obvious your just posting because your bored and want to argue with people about a pointless topic. the earth is round. get a job.

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Cinlef

  • The Elder Ones
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  • The Earth is a Sphere
Round Earthers you must throw what you have been taught away
« Reply #3 on: January 23, 2006, 04:25:05 PM »
Nice Try CrazyScience but I've been saying that for months they shall now abandon this thread and have it sink of page one and the launch the same stupid salvos of flawed logic again. Sigh I'd give up if I din't feel they'd view that as an endorsement of their bullshit and lies
An enraged
Cinlef
Truth is great and will prevail-Thomas Jefferson

I've said it before and I'll say it again, Cinlef is the bestest!

Melior est sapientia quam vires-Wisdom

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jonmarkgo

Round Earthers you must throw what you have been taught away
« Reply #4 on: January 23, 2006, 05:32:07 PM »
Are the people who say they believe this stuff actuall serious?  i mean, I have seen a lot of fake sites about the flat earth society.  It just doesnt sound like they are actuall being serious.

Round Earthers you must throw what you have been taught away
« Reply #5 on: January 23, 2006, 07:03:53 PM »
I'll take that challenge.  Tell me what problems you see with the theory of the flat earth, and I'll explain them using science, mathematical models, etc.  Try me.

Re: Round Earthers you must throw what you have been taught
« Reply #6 on: January 23, 2006, 10:49:37 PM »
Quote from: "bullhorn"
. . . Mathematics’ and the sciences seem to be used as evidence to try and prove that the Earth is round.  As we flat Earthers believe that educational institutions are full of liars it is hard for us to take seriously the tainted information that is used to put forward the view that the Earth is round.

As a mathematician (at least a baby one), you're going to have to point out just what are the lies regarding mathematics for me to take this seriously. In my studies, I've got close to the very bottom, the foundations: yes, it's all axioms (unprovable statements about the nature of collections, and numbers; unprovable because most of them are just completely bloody obvious to anyone, including anyone who's not a mathematician) but I don't see exactly how you could take such an issue with them to say that they're actually lies. So far I've yet to see anything which I would call actually a lie (and please don't just say that I've been conditioned or brainwashed by universities: I do think for myself, you know, and it's insulting to imply that I don't).

So, specifically (and I mean details, not general statements): what is wrong with mathematics?

Round Earthers you must throw what you have been taught away
« Reply #7 on: January 24, 2006, 12:40:28 AM »
Quote from: "TheMantisMan"
I'll take that challenge.  Tell me what problems you see with the theory of the flat earth, and I'll explain them using science, mathematical models, etc.  Try me.

OK, that will be good for the society.
Let's start:
How do you explain Coriolis forces?

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bullhorn

  • Flat Earth Scientist
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Round Earthers you must throw what you have been taught away
« Reply #8 on: January 24, 2006, 07:40:21 AM »
Lets take the simplest of equations. 1 + 1.  Most people who have gone to school would have been taught that the answer to that equation is 2.  When in fact if we look at the real world it is rarely the case, I will explain.  Lets take 2 raindrops, if you have 2 raindrops that are separate, one drop and then another next to it. 1 + 1 According to the popular belief we would have 2 rain drops, but what happens when they touch?  They become one.  So it is possible that 1 + 1 can equal 2 and it is also very possible that 1 +1 can equal 1 as when they join up they become one raindrop.  This is of course one of the simplest equations that is taught in school and I have pointed out what is wrong with it. Now if I can show you want is wrong with this equation, you must assume that I can do so with more complex.  This is why I have a hard time accepting mathematics as is taught in the educational system.

Round Earthers you must throw what you have been taught away
« Reply #9 on: January 24, 2006, 08:12:27 AM »
Quote from: "bullhorn"
Now if I can show you want is wrong with this equation, you must assume that I can do so with more complex.



Now, if I can get my thumb up my ass, surely I can get my entire arm up there, and then both my arms and my legs, and then I'm completely inside-out and ..... TA-DDAAAAAA!!!!

Round Earthers you must throw what you have been taught away
« Reply #10 on: January 24, 2006, 09:42:27 AM »
Quote from: "bullhorn"
Lets take the simplest of equations. 1 + 1.  Most people who have gone to school would have been taught that the answer to that equation is 2.  When in fact if we look at the real world it is rarely the case, I will explain.  Lets take 2 raindrops, if you have 2 raindrops that are separate, one drop and then another next to it. 1 + 1 According to the popular belief we would have 2 rain drops, but what happens when they touch?  They become one.  So it is possible that 1 + 1 can equal 2 and it is also very possible that 1 +1 can equal 1 as when they join up they become one raindrop.  This is of course one of the simplest equations that is taught in school and I have pointed out what is wrong with it. Now if I can show you want is wrong with this equation, you must assume that I can do so with more complex.  This is why I have a hard time accepting mathematics as is taught in the educational system.

Wow. You know, I was almost starting to have respect. No more: sorry.

Raindrops are not numbers; numbers are not raindrops. Number is an abstraction of the property of discreteness that we observe in the world around us. Instead of particular instances of three sheep, buildings, tables, people, pens, keyboards, flutes, erasers, blah, blah, we just say, "three" and use that idea to talk about all instances of the number three.

(Dude: if you'd read anything, you might know that there is even evidence that babies, even a few months old, can do very limited counting—they can tell the difference between one and two; later on they can distinguish one, two, and three, all without knowing what those are "mathematically".)

Mathematics begins, essentially, as a way of doing precisely this kind of abstraction. When examples like the raindrop defy the idea of discreteness, we can use concepts like, oh, I don't know, volume, to conclude that the volume of the two raindrops combined is the same as the sum (see, more math) of the volumes of the two raindrops individually.

I guess, however, that you trust mathematics enough so that the money you have in your bank account doesn't spontaneously become one dollar because the numbers all rolled together to make "one".

Man, you need to go to school, or something. One raindrop plus one raindrop doesn't make one raindrop: it makes one bigger raindrop. And 1 + 1 is still equal to 2. If this argument weren't so fatuous I'd have more time to make the point.

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Erasmus

  • The Elder Ones
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Round Earthers you must throw what you have been taught away
« Reply #11 on: January 24, 2006, 10:11:32 AM »
For shame, Mundi!  Don't you know a futile exercise when you see one?  I started writing similar responses twice, and thought better of it both times.  I admit, if there were something I could say then would get bullhorn to go, "Oh, hm, I  never thought of it like that.  Good point!" then after I got permission to go up on the roof of my apartment building to collect my skyrocketing ego, I would go out and conquer the rest of the world, cure cancer, and work out a fair flat tax plan that everybody could agree on.

-Erasmus
Why did the chicken cross the Möbius strip?

Round Earthers you must throw what you have been taught away
« Reply #12 on: January 24, 2006, 11:20:08 AM »
Agreed. I'm sorry: I seem to have forgotten that there were no trolls around here.

Why, then, are we bothering?

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6strings

  • The Elder Ones
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Round Earthers you must throw what you have been taught away
« Reply #13 on: January 24, 2006, 01:14:56 PM »
So wait, Bullhorn, the only possible explanation for something being convenient (ie: the round earth theory) is that it's the product of a government conspiracy?

Let's look at this, shall we?
You know what else is convenient? My hands.  I mean, look at them, they've got opposable thumbs!  That sure is too convienient.  I therefore conclude that my hands are the product of a heretofore unknown governmaent conspiracy.

Air.  It's a little too convinient that I'm capable of living by breathing this stuff around me.  I must also be the product of a government conspiracy.

The planet.  Wow, there's this place where I can survive, and it has everything I need to live.  Must be created by a conspiracy.

Time.  It's a little too convinient that time always seems to flow forwards, as it lets me function in a logical manner.  Time's progression must then too be the product of a conspiracy.

So what have we concluded?  That the existence of virtually everything is the product of a global conspiracy.  That's just stupid.

Now on to your little "math doesn't always apply" theory.  Look at your raindrops, take their volumes, and add them together (if you believe in adding, which I assume you dont, it being a product of "the man" to keep you down...filthy hippy...).  You'll notice how the bigger raindrop has the equivalent volume of the two raindrops combined. Shocking.

I will now prove to you that 1+1 does, in fact, equal 2.  
Buy a bag of apples.
Put one apple on your table.
Count the number of apples on your table.
Put one more apple on the table.
Count the number of apples on your table.
Repeat until you're convinced that arithmatic does, in fact, work.

Congratulations, you've just managed to understand basic math, which apparantly wasn't required in your university classes, because I see no possible way you could have passed if you think that math is a tool that the government uses to decieve you.

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Cinlef

  • The Elder Ones
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  • The Earth is a Sphere
Round Earthers you must throw what you have been taught away
« Reply #14 on: January 24, 2006, 04:32:20 PM »
I ahve to agree with Erasmus bullhorn for all his pretentions to the intellectual high groiund and his claims that we are brainwashed unquestioning fools who believ thing swithout question is a dogmatic fanatic who holds views thats basis have been disproved on this very forum. Yet he doesnt consider an alternate point of view despite a logical chain of reasoning this is because he s deluded fanatic. Still if we let his staments go unchallenged we'd be just as much contributers to the cause of ignorance as he. I for one will keep arguing even thought it is impossible to convince an irrational person of anything
An undaunted
Cinlef
Truth is great and will prevail-Thomas Jefferson

I've said it before and I'll say it again, Cinlef is the bestest!

Melior est sapientia quam vires-Wisdom

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bullhorn2

Round Earthers you must throw what you have been taught away
« Reply #15 on: January 30, 2006, 08:27:49 PM »
I get it!  I get it!  So if I have one apple in my basket and then add another apple to the basket, I have one apple in the basket.  Suddenly it all makes sense!  1+1 must always equal 1!  Jeez, I should go call my multivariate analysis professor and yell at him for lying....then all my other professors and teachers over the past 14 years.  Good to know that everyone who's gone to a higher education institution for 8+ years spent their entire time learning an extremely brilliant and complex series of lies.  

Who knew that math wasn't real?  Could've fooled me.  I should've been an english major.

Round Earthers you must throw what you have been taught away
« Reply #16 on: January 30, 2006, 09:15:17 PM »
This means I didn't fail that math test! I can't wait to see the look on my teachers face when I tell her anything can equal anything. It'll blow her mind. So, wait a minute, if it can be proven 1+1=1, and it has, conclusively, then, bear with me here


3+halucinogen/(too much time on your hands)^2 = Flat Earth

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dgw

  • 16
Round Earthers you must throw what you have been taught away
« Reply #17 on: January 30, 2006, 09:37:39 PM »
Well I think you have proved your point bullhorn. If you think 1+1 equals 1 then of course you are going to believe the earth is flat and that pigs fly. I'm just wondering (assuming you work for a living) that if you get a pay rise that you use the same formula? Idiot.