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Can Somebody help me find a source

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midgard

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Can Somebody help me find a source
« on: February 19, 2007, 04:11:34 AM »
Quote
...scientific evidence came from a study by MENSA that found that of 43 studies into the relationship, 4 found no relationship and 39 found the inverse relationship.  So there is significant evidence that shows that people who believe in God are less intelligent than those who don't.


I've been trying to track down the source of this "fact" and so far all I can find is a bunch of websites quoting Dawkins in The God Delusion:

Quote from: "[url=http://www.vexen.co.uk/religion/intelligence.html
a webpage[/url]"][Paul Bell in Mensa Magazine, 2002, reviewed all studies taken of religion and IQ. He concluded:]

"Of 43 studies carried out since 1927 on the relationship between religious belief and one's intelligence and/or educational level, all but four found an inverse connection. That is, the higher one's intelligence or education level, the less one is likely to be religious or hold "beliefs" of any kind."

--"The God Delusion" by Prof. Richard Dawkins, p102-103


Interestingly enough when I've been doing a search for things such as "Paul Bell" & MENSA I keep coming back to that passage on various websites but can't acutally find any extracts from the original article. In fact I can't even find the "MENSA Magazine" that is mentioned. I've found The MENSA Research Journal but that can't be it because for the three issues of 2002 (Winter 2002, Sprin 2002, and Fall 2002) there is not article that is written by Paul Bell.

I'm not trying to get into a debate about the statement (I believe there is an inverse correlationship between education and intelligence and religious belief). I just want to read the actual article so I know exactly what it says.

Thanks.
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midgard

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Can Somebody help me find a source
« Reply #1 on: February 19, 2007, 04:19:58 AM »
Quote from: "theonlydann"
If i find it will you tell me you love me?


I'll consider thinking about saying it if you find it.
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midgard

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Can Somebody help me find a source
« Reply #2 on: February 19, 2007, 04:32:34 AM »
That link's for an article by Richard Dawkins on 22nd June, 2002 isn't it?
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beast

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Can Somebody help me find a source
« Reply #3 on: February 19, 2007, 06:06:24 AM »
I'm sorry, I don't have my copy of the God Delusion.  I am sure that at the back of the book it will give you the source though.  If you can wait a few more days, I should have my copy back.

"The LDS-affiliated Brigham Young University also conducted survey research into education levels and religiosity displayed among the Mormons. 41% of Mormons with only elementary school education attend Church regularly. By contrast, 76% of Mormon college graduates attend Church regularly and 78% of Mormons who went beyond their college degrees to do graduate study attend Church regularly. As Mormons attain more education, it seems, they become more devout. These findings, again, contrast with national norms; national survey data published by the Princeton Religious Research Center indicate that the higher the level of educational attainment, the lower the level of religious zeal."

From Dan's link.  I found that really interesting, because I really enjoy talking to Mormons.  They're pretty much my favourite religious people that I get to talk to regularly.
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midgard

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Can Somebody help me find a source
« Reply #4 on: February 19, 2007, 07:49:31 AM »
Thanks beast.

I reckon you really like talking to Mormons so you can hear about the massive sex-orgies they have with their multiple wives (sure they say they got rid of pillagomy but do you really believe them?).
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midgard

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Can Somebody help me find a source
« Reply #5 on: February 19, 2007, 08:37:15 AM »
Quote from: "theonlydann"
you might wanna check some of this out... if its studies on the correlation between IQ and religion... u want...

http://www.reference.com/browse/wiki/Religiosity_and_intelligence


Thanks for that - that's what I wanted to read.

I'm still interested in the other article though as it's actually coming across to me at the moment as, "I heard it from a guy that heard it from a guy that most intelligent people aren't religious." I'm wondering if Dawkins actually read the MENSA Magazine article or if he just took the fact from another source (as loads of people are doing with Dawkin's statement).
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EvilToothpaste

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Can Somebody help me find a source
« Reply #6 on: February 19, 2007, 08:58:26 AM »
I dug up my book, and it looks like it is sourcing the very article Theonlydann first gave you:

57.  P.Bell, 'Would you believe it?', Mensa Magazine, Feb. 2002, 12-13.
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midgard

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Can Somebody help me find a source
« Reply #7 on: February 19, 2007, 09:23:07 AM »
Quote from: "EvilToothpaste"
I dug up my book, and it looks like it is sourcing the very article Theonlydann first gave you:

57.  P.Bell, 'Would you believe it?', Mensa Magazine, Feb. 2002, 12-13.


I take it you didn't read the whole thread? The first link theonlydann gave was for an article by Dawkins. If you read on you'll notice that theonlydann wasn't able to find anything on the article (apart from people talking about it).

I'm after the actual article, or even contact details of Mensa Magazine. I've been trying to track it down and all I get is people referring to it (or in the more accurate cases referring to Dawkins referring to it).

Do you know where I can get a copy of the article or even Mensa Magazine's contact details?
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Nomad

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Can Somebody help me find a source
« Reply #8 on: February 19, 2007, 09:42:29 AM »
Try emailing Dawkins himself, he might be able to give you the information you need.
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Quote from: PizzaPlanet on March 24, 2011, 11:05:27 AM
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midgard

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Can Somebody help me find a source
« Reply #9 on: February 19, 2007, 10:04:12 AM »
Cheers, does he have a web page or something?
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joffenz

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Can Somebody help me find a source
« Reply #10 on: February 19, 2007, 11:00:47 AM »
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midgard

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Can Somebody help me find a source
« Reply #11 on: February 19, 2007, 11:02:12 AM »
Cheers.
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Nomad

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Can Somebody help me find a source
« Reply #12 on: February 19, 2007, 11:26:27 AM »
There's a lot more to the site than just the forum, by the way.  ;P

Also, I'd like to know what you find out as well.  I briefly tried looking for that article at one point myself, but couldnt' find it.
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Quote from: PizzaPlanet on March 24, 2011, 11:05:27 AM
Nomad is a superhero.

8/30 NEVAR FORGET
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midgard

  • 1300
Re: Can Somebody help me find a source
« Reply #13 on: February 20, 2007, 03:25:57 AM »
How long do you think I'll have to wait to track this down???

So far I've googled for it, wrote an email to MENSA, posted here and posted on Dawkin's forum.

This is just annoying.
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Tao of Pooh

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Re: Can Somebody help me find a source
« Reply #14 on: February 20, 2007, 03:48:50 AM »
Try asking at IIDB.org, though you'll need an acct to do so.
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midgard

  • 1300
Re: Can Somebody help me find a source
« Reply #15 on: February 20, 2007, 04:37:18 AM »
What's that? Are accounts free?

I've emailed the Dawkins Net people so hopefully they'll give me an answer.

18 people have viewed my post on the dawkins forum but nobody's felt it worthy of comment.
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Tao of Pooh

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Re: Can Somebody help me find a source
« Reply #16 on: February 20, 2007, 04:45:59 AM »
IIDB.org is a mssg forum, like this. You can make an acct for free, though I think you can't make posts immediately after registering, you get the e-mail thingie to activate the acct.
It's an atheist board yet they worship Dawkins so somebody's bound to know whre the quote came from.

Here: IIDB message board
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midgard

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Re: Can Somebody help me find a source
« Reply #17 on: February 20, 2007, 05:01:18 AM »
Thankyou.
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Tao of Pooh

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Re: Can Somebody help me find a source
« Reply #18 on: February 20, 2007, 05:22:47 AM »
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midgard

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Re: Can Somebody help me find a source
« Reply #19 on: February 20, 2007, 05:35:49 AM »
I like the new forum!!!
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Tao of Pooh

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Re: Can Somebody help me find a source
« Reply #20 on: February 20, 2007, 05:39:43 AM »
It has it's advantages!
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beast

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Re: Can Somebody help me find a source
« Reply #21 on: February 21, 2007, 07:14:33 PM »
The source that Dawkins gives in The God Delusion is;

P. Bell, "Would you believe it", Mensa Magazine, Feb. 2002, 12-13

Hope that helps.

You should really read The God Delusion, Midgard, if you think that he would be ashamed of what I write.

"Imaging, with John Lennon, a world with no religion.  Imagine no suicide bombers, no 9/11, no 7/7, no crusades, no witch-hunts, no Gunpowder Plot, no Indian partition, no Israeli/Palestinian wars, no Serb/Croat/Mulsim massacres, no persecution of Jews as "Christ-killers', no Northern Island 'troubles' no 'honor killings', no shiny-suited bouffant-haired televangelists fleecing gullible people of their money ('God wants you to give till it hurts').  Imagine no Taliban to blow up ancient statues, no public beheadings of blasphemers, no flogging of female skin for the crime of showing an inch of it." - The God Delusion pg 1,2



That's how Richard Dawkins feels about religion, and how I feel as well.
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beast

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Re: Can Somebody help me find a source
« Reply #22 on: February 21, 2007, 10:48:21 PM »
I tend not to base my beliefs on episodes of South Park, but thanks for the advice.
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