My question to all the round-earthers

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My question to all the round-earthers
« on: January 20, 2006, 10:57:15 PM »
...or whatever the earth shape that you believe in.

How can you be so sure of the earth shape?
How can you be so sure it is round (for instance) and not flat?

Forget all the books, TV programs, documentaries, science magazines, schools, etc...
Give me undoubtable facts that you experienced for yourselves, that the earth is not flat (that it is round or whatever).

My question to all the round-earthers
« Reply #1 on: January 20, 2006, 11:39:52 PM »
Quote from: "Javier_Vierja"
Forget all the books, TV programs, documentaries, science magazines, schools, etc...


Right, well, if I did that, I wouldn't be sure of anything. But fortuantely, when I read things, I don't just take it for granted, but in fact, look for ways to disprove it using my knowledge.

Look, I know it's been done to death, but try and disprove that "1 + 1 = 2". YOu can't for the simple reason that it works. Then move on to the harder stuff. Disprove by contradiciton, or example, or by first order logic that the derivative of a curve will produce the instantaneous tangent at a point. It's more complicated, but you still can't do it. I can prove that it does.

I've read Steven Hawking's book about superstring theory and chose not to believe it because I thought it was flimsy at best. It was based on science I could neither prove not disprove. Whereas Einstein's book, "Relativity" made a world of sense and could be applied to most every situation I came across (except when it got too complicated and my brain melted).

The point is, your best argument is that everything in science is a lie, but somehow it all works. Part of the process of passing a new theory is to realease it to public scrutiny in journals for two to three years. Many offer up a possible way to disprove it as part of their original conjecture.

So if Round-Earth science is a lie, then what is a more viable science? What makes more sense, half-arsed contradictory flim-flam about the way the world works with only your word to go by, or publicly scrutinised, empirical evidence backed theories based on laws that have proven their worth in the real world and have gained the recognition of the entire society?

My question to all the round-earthers
« Reply #2 on: January 21, 2006, 12:23:55 AM »
Quote
Look, I know it's been done to death, but try and disprove that "1 + 1 = 2".

It is very simple: put your hand in front of you with all the fingers opened, then take one to the side, and then another one, how many fingers do you have on the side now? Two... then 1+1=2, proved by yourself.

Quote
So if Round-Earth science is a lie, then what is a more viable science? What makes more sense, half-arsed contradictory flim-flam about the way the world works with only your word to go by, or publicly scrutinised, empirical evidence backed theories based on laws that have proven their worth in the real world and have gained the recognition of the entire society?

OK, you have my word on one side, and the words of many scientists on the other side, but what do you have proven by yourself? Or you only believe the things because there are so many voices that says it is correct?
I remember a saying: "eat shit, millons of flies can't be wrong".

Do you have any friend of family member, someone that you can be sure won't lie to you that had proven the shape of the earth by himself? He might also be laying to you, but it would be a good approach.

Furthermore: how many of the authors of the books that you have read, or how many of your teachers, or the ones that make TV documentaries, have proven for themselves what they assure?
They also have been taught in this way.

If you become a teacher, you'll probably be also teaching things that you can't be sure and may be wrong. Think about it.

So... how many people in the world living now do you think that have proven by themselves doubtless the actual shape of the earth? Do you know them? have you spoken to any of them?

My question to all the round-earthers
« Reply #3 on: January 21, 2006, 01:09:33 AM »
Thanks. First of all, I said disprove it. I know it's provable. It's math. If you can't prove maths with simpler maths, it's not maths. So thanks for proving my point.

Secondly,

Quote from: "CrazyScience"
Whereas Einstein's book, "Relativity" made a world of sense and could be applied to most every situation I came across.


meaning, in lay terms, I didn't just read it and believe, I read it and saw analogous situations in real life and found consistency in his theory and results in teh real world. Something I am yet to find in any Flat Earth theories as such.

But, yes, I can see how reading about the world, applying my own test situations (my best test was of vector calculus using my highly scientific lime bazooka :)) is far less trustworthy than hearing something and believing it without running tests because, "hey, I trust the guy".

I mean, why should I trust the science that gave me the computer I'm using, the car I drive, the food I eat. Surely all this stuff isn't actually working. I just feel like it does, but that must all be the government. In fact, come to think of it, I did see a secret agent pushing my car down the freeway at 100kph and I do vaguely remember that guy with a calculator putting fridge-magnet letters on my monitor. Could it be that the world I live in truly isn't the result of science. Oh no, wait, I'm not an idiot, of course it is.

You telling me that my "belief" in science is a sorry error of judgement is laughable in itself, since that is all that Flat-Earth theory has to it's name; a belief.

PS. Why does the word "l e m o n" get changed to "lime"? Is there a definite fruit bias on this site, I am unwarily participating in?

My question to all the round-earthers
« Reply #4 on: January 21, 2006, 05:19:38 PM »
You ask us how we can be sure that teh earth is round,  Im gonna answer casue ive seen pictures of it, i can see the horizon is curved, and of all the theories it makes most sense.

No doub tyou will tell me that my picture were made by some person who sells earth globes or something so he wants to keep his businees by tricking us all into thinking its round.

But where are your pictures from space of flat earths or pictures of mystical ice-walls.

What makes you so sure that the earth is flat?

P.s. If anyone posts a picture from the internet with addresses such as "www.glacier.????" or www.???.com/k2expidition" both of which ive seen on this site then tries toconvince us that they are not pictures of glaciers and k2 respectively i will hunt you down.

My question to all the round-earthers
« Reply #5 on: January 21, 2006, 06:03:05 PM »











My question to all the round-earthers
« Reply #6 on: January 21, 2006, 11:06:45 PM »
I find the fact appauling that people intelligent enough to be on msg board is "seriously" debating the status of the earth roundness.  I've seen people debate about some strange stuff but this must be the most ridiculous debate I've ever seen.

I'm having a ball just reading about ice walls, faked moon landings etc.

here's a question
« Reply #7 on: January 21, 2006, 11:11:35 PM »
dood, what is the "flat earth" explanation for different stars in the sky between Vancouver Canada (my parents home) and Dunedin New Zealand (my home)?  I've lived in these two placed and other places in the world and I see different stars in the sky - I know the "round earth" explanation but what is the flat earth one?

?

Erasmus

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My question to all the round-earthers
« Reply #8 on: January 21, 2006, 11:21:30 PM »
Quote from: "newty82"
dood, what is the "flat earth" explanation for different stars in the sky between Vancouver Canada (my parents home) and Dunedin New Zealand (my home)? I've lived in these two placed and other places in the world and I see different stars in the sky - I know the "round earth" explanation but what is the flat earth one?


Flat-Earthers on this forum may correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe they explain it by accusing you of being a government agent planted to perpetrate the biggest lie of all time.

-Erasmus
Why did the chicken cross the Möbius strip?

My question to all the round-earthers
« Reply #9 on: January 22, 2006, 12:46:30 AM »
thanks, I am extremely amused.  I would like to point out that this type of reply (if it is the standard reply from flat earthers) is unfalsifiable because it is empirically equivalent.  i.e. whatever I say you have an alternate reason that explains that very phenomena.  

e.g. evolution created all the bones anthropologists dig up and say species evolve.

cf god created the world such that anthropologists dig up bones and conclude that species evolve.

how do you decide between the two from an empirical perspective? you can't!

parsimony will help.

My question to all the round-earthers
« Reply #10 on: January 22, 2006, 12:49:04 AM »
No I have a better explanation. It must be the strange configuration of gravity that causes the construction of flat planets that also causes stars to do figure-eights in the sky.

Or maybe they're advanced precision satellites that have a specific path, all for the purpose of the conspiracy, which is actually, now, costing more money to harbour than the rewards of actually creating it. Although I'm not to sure the point of the conspiracy...

Anyway, I'm good at making stuff up on the spot. Can I believe in a Flat-Earth too?

Re: here's a question
« Reply #11 on: January 22, 2006, 01:27:02 AM »
Quote from: "newty82"
dood, what is the "flat earth" explanation for different stars in the sky between Vancouver Canada (my parents home) and Dunedin New Zealand (my home)?  I've lived in these two placed and other places in the world and I see different stars in the sky - I know the "round earth" explanation but what is the flat earth one?


That's another evidence of the stars not being too far in the sky, that's why you see different stars in different places.

My question to all the round-earthers
« Reply #12 on: January 22, 2006, 06:14:57 AM »
clever move rehosting images on imageshack.

Q quick image search for "ice wall" gives us on one of the first few pages your 5th image down

www.alaskamountainguides.com/iceclimbing.html

would you look at that, its a site about mountain climbing and that picture is from alaska.

I didnt look further for teh rest but your 1st and second pictures have appeared earlier on these forums both of which wuth an address from a glacier or mountain site.

The rest, becasue i dont have any explanation other than the obvious one,I  have to say are doctored by the goverment to try and hide the truth that the world is round. Therefore you are a goverment spy.

The point of that is to say if thats the evidence i asked for for why you are so sure the earth is flat, why cant we use pictures of a round earth. You continually argue that the pictures could be doctored and that we havent seen a round earth for ourself, you havent seena  flat earth for yourself.

My question to all the round-earthers
« Reply #13 on: January 22, 2006, 10:42:11 AM »
I still don't understand the conspiracy theory... What's the interest of having us believing in a round earth if it really is flat?

Re: My question to all the round-earthers
« Reply #14 on: January 22, 2006, 06:12:24 PM »
Quote from: "Javier_Vierja"
...or whatever the earth shape that you believe in.

How can you be so sure of the earth shape?
How can you be so sure it is round (for instance) and not flat?

Forget all the books, TV programs, documentaries, science magazines, schools, etc...
Give me undoubtable facts that you experienced for yourselves, that the earth is not flat (that it is round or whatever).



Why do:

- The seasons and position of the sun, match up with the geometric model of a round earth perfectly?  The solstice, the range of motion the sun takes  per how many degrees off the horizon it is at noon in winter vs in summer, the math all adds up perfectly....indicating we are on a spherical planet on a 23.5 degree axis tilt orbiting a star every 365.25 days.  The length of each day mathmatically adds up perfectly when you account for how far north/south you are (degrees above/below the equator) coupled with the axis tilt.  How close the sun skims the horizon adds up perfectly too.  

If it is a coincidence that dozens of mathematical factors all happen to produce a working model that is only consistent with a spherical earth....yet it is not, then it literally would have to be a Divine Conspiracy right up there with satan hiding dinosaur bones complete with Very Old Carbon to make us think the world is really old when its not.

No matter how you crunch the math, the stars move when you move south/north as if you are moving along a curved surface as well...completely independant of the seasonal/daylight mathmatics.

- Why can you see farther over the horizon on the sea the higher you go up?  People may claim that there are "tricky hills" on land, but the ocean is as flat as you can get on the Earth.  And yet, you can use mathematics to calculate how far you can see, based on how high you are, very accurately, and that requires knowing the curvature of the Earth's surface.  It does not work with any other surface models.

In short I have personal evidence of the round earth from:

Experiencing the seasons
Seeing the stars from various locations
Experiencing long and short days
Sailing on the Ocean and Looking Around
Flying over the same area of the Ocean and Looking Around (and you can see a lot more btw)


Here's a question for flat-earthers:

Can a metal boat float?  
If you believe in the possibility, do you have proof?  Can you prove to me it is possible? (and don't post any doctored photos thank you very much)

Re: My question to all the round-earthers
« Reply #15 on: January 22, 2006, 06:22:19 PM »
Quote from: "paddy"
Here's a question for flat-earthers:

Can a metal boat float?  
If you believe in the possibility, do you have proof?  Can you prove to me it is possible? (and don't post any doctored photos thank you very much)

I have the proof for me, because I've been in a metal ship and it floated.

Re: My question to all the round-earthers
« Reply #16 on: January 22, 2006, 09:44:34 PM »
Quote from: "Javier_Vierja"
Quote from: "paddy"
Here's a question for flat-earthers:

Can a metal boat float?  
If you believe in the possibility, do you have proof?  Can you prove to me it is possible? (and don't post any doctored photos thank you very much)

I have the proof for me, because I've been in a metal ship and it floated.


Most of us have been in airplanes and can attest the only explanation for the change in horizon line is a round earth.

Your testimony is no more valid than some "astronaut" claiming to have been on the moon.  

Can you prove metal boats float on these forums?

Also, are you absolutely sure you weren't in a metal plated wooden boat?

Re: My question to all the round-earthers
« Reply #17 on: January 23, 2006, 01:57:26 AM »
Quote from: "paddy"
Can you prove metal boats float on these forums?

Also, are you absolutely sure you weren't in a metal plated wooden boat?


I am sure it was metal because it has some parts oxidized.
And I can prove it to the forum, we all should met at the port.

?

a

My question to all the round-earthers
« Reply #18 on: January 23, 2006, 03:41:54 AM »
man it was obviously a government conspiracy holagram boat. there are no such things as boats. its a conspiracy.

go to
www.boats-arn't-real.com


is it just me or is there only like 2 people who believe the earth is flat.

to those 2 people i propose this to you.


since you believe that 1 + 1 = 2 then obviously you are aquainted with a subject known as mathematics. you proved your result of "2" by using simple observation with your fingers.

apply this to a triangle.  you can see the triangle with your eyes, therefore, by your reasoning it is real. building upon this we can see that pythagoras's law works simply by doing it with a triangle and seeing that it works (it is acually proved more elegantly, but i'm going to stick with reasoning of observation). Now that we can see that pythagoras works, we observe that trigonometry (which is built upon pythagoras) works. try it out. it works. so by your reasoning of observation, trigonometry is fact. we then move to differential and integral calculus. and by this reasoning (which is the exact same reasoning as your 1 + 1 =2 arguement) , you therefore believe something as complex as integral calculus to be true.


however, if i were to present some integral calculus to an 8 year old and show him that the area under complicated curve  from A to B is say, 50units, i would doubt that he would imidiately belive me. especially if i only showed him the question and the answer with no working.


that is what you are doing. you disbelieve that the earth is round because you aren't doing any working. the only working you are doing is with your eyes. ok, don't go out and read any books on maths or physics because they could be a conspiracy. instead, sit down witha pen and paper. in about 5000years you will have single handedly worked out all of modern maths and physics on your own. using your own observations, nothing else. it works. test it out. you need to do working with theoretical maths. but you deny this theory as you don't understand it.

so ipsofacto.... if you dont believe the earth is round you are an idiot. not because you don't instantly believe what others tell you, but because you are to thick to go outside and observe the world not only with you eyes, but with your mind.

QED

ps flat earth ppl are inbread rednecks

My question to all the round-earthers
« Reply #19 on: January 23, 2006, 03:49:05 AM »
Hey, when did we start proving metal boats didn't exist?! Is there a point to this arguement? Is there a point to any arguement here? The Earth is round.

And can someone please answer my question about the word "lem-on"! If I don't put that space there, it gets changed to "lime"! Don't Flat-Earthers like lem-ons? Are they a conspiracy, too? Did the government start sending agents out to paint all the limes?

My question to all the round-earthers
« Reply #20 on: January 24, 2006, 02:11:45 PM »
Quote from: "CrazyScience"
Hey, when did we start proving metal boats didn't exist?! Is there a point to this arguement? Is there a point to any arguement here? The Earth is round.

And can someone please answer my question about the word "lem-on"! If I don't put that space there, it gets changed to "lime"! Don't Flat-Earthers like lem-ons? Are they a conspiracy, too? Did the government start sending agents out to paint all the limes?


I suppose I mentioned it because if anyone knows anything about even the basics of bouancy, not even the hard figures on surface tension, actual water weight vs weight of displaced air, or any of the other in depth details...you still know a metal boat will float as well as any other.

Yet, to "prove" it works to stubborn people, is about as likely as proving the world is round.  Anyone who can grasps the basics of geometry can see that round-earth is an exact and fitting model that describes all the planet's behaviors perfectly.  Yet, when people come up with these horrendeously convoluted flat ideas that simply require tons of wierd rules that are not observed impacting any other element of the universe...honestly you may as well try and prove that metal boats can float.