Poll

Is George Bush any good?

yes
13 (25%)
no
39 (75%)

Total Members Voted: 41

Voting closed: January 18, 2006, 06:53:12 AM

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President

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pspunit

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President
« on: January 18, 2006, 06:53:12 AM »
What are everyone's thoughts on the president of the United States?
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NarrowPathPilgrim

  • 24
Re: President
« Reply #1 on: January 23, 2006, 11:42:33 PM »
Quote from: "pspunit"
What are everyone's thoughts on the president of the United States?

Very bad; but I really can't call any of our presidents "good" as every one was a 33rd degree freemason.
I believe (without any doubt) that Bush organized 9/11. And though I think he is working for the same boss and goal, he is much better than Kerry would have been; the Lord only knows what would have happened if that liberal got into office.

Sincerely, Zach Doty

PS. Anyone who wants to learn more about 9/11 needs to watch "Loose Change". It is a well done documentary that will leave you with no doubt whatsoever! (Search google and you can find places to download it online)
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Cinlef

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President
« Reply #2 on: January 24, 2006, 04:25:27 PM »
There is a word for people who think that only they and a few other people are sane mate. And the word isnt sane
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Quote from: Colonel Gaydafi on February 07, 2009, 03:54:06 AM
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mikolaj_koppernigk=cojon

  • 55
President
« Reply #3 on: January 25, 2006, 05:21:47 PM »
All world leaders ars penguins.  It's in the job description.
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ts obvious isn't it.  No one can prove a damn thing.  Especially in this of all possible worlds. LOL
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Spook

  • 6
President
« Reply #4 on: January 26, 2006, 06:47:39 AM »
Somebody actually voted yes! wow
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ikolaj_koppernigk=cojon=tit
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chriscurzon

  • 19
President
« Reply #5 on: February 09, 2006, 11:49:29 PM »
i voted yes four times
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Anonymous

President
« Reply #6 on: February 10, 2006, 12:28:49 PM »
He's one of the greatest presidents in history, its a fact of life.
In the past no president has offered tax cuts every year, a 4-6% tax cut, tell me who else has done that?
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Dionysios

  • 482
Thumbs Down
« Reply #7 on: February 15, 2006, 02:17:09 PM »
the
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Anonymous

Re: Thumbs Down
« Reply #8 on: February 15, 2006, 03:26:57 PM »
Quote from: "Dionysios"
The Bush administration is deservedly at its low ebb of popularity.  Its aim is obviously to shift attention to something else which is where all this talk about Iran comes in.  (I am surprised Cinlef does not have a job with the Bush administration yet.) Clinton used the militias and the Oklahoma City bombing.  I think he was the lesser of two evil as to foreign policy, but I hate to throw him any praise at all because he bombed Serbia, not to mention other places.  
  I probably agree with more of NarrowPathPilgrim's views than most people on this site, but I think I am more on the American left than he is.  traditional Catholicism is very much opposed to freemasonry.  He is a conservative Catholic as far as I can tell.  I think Kerry would have been a lesser evil.  He and Bush are both for the war, but, the kind of people that gather around Kerry and that gather around Bush are different.  This would make a difference.  I also think america's presidents are a bad lot of freemasons, but jewish influence has been very powerful in american history, especially from the late nineteenth century onwards.  Even George Washington was financed by Jewish bankers from Holland.  I think america would be the worst country in history if the jews had not been behind the murder of Jesus Christ God.
  The fundamentalist rapture protestants are a hardcore pro-Bush and pro-Israel voting block.  The influence of Jerry Falwell, John Hagee, Pat Robertson, Jimmy Swagart, et cetera has only been helpful to Bush, and that is unfortunate.  
  Howard Dean seems to be the liberal equivalent of what Patrick Buchanan was in the nineties.  Dean is far to be preferred than Hilary Clinton, who has unambiguously stated her contempt for Iran.  Condoleeza Rice is an Uncle Tom in the service of rich white men and zionists.  Her background is with oil companies which is precisely where the Bush family's wealth comes from.
  As to a tax cut, I think that corporations and those in the in the service of what the administration wants will be the main beneficiaries of that.  A Bush tax cut is is a popularity device which that administration need so badly.
  The Bush family were business partners of the Bin Laden's in bygone years until the Bushes became the ir backstabbers.  This reminds me of scene I saw in the Mel Gibson movie Braveheart where Wallace rides in on horseback and smashes in the head of of his treasonous former ally.  It would be so truly beautiful to see Osama Bin Laden ride heroically into the white house on horseback and smash in Bush's skull while he's having nightmares in his bed about all the people he's killed in iraq and throughout the world coming back to doom him after the grave.
  To end with foreign policy, I think you will find most of what becomes talked about issues in american foreign policy are issues at all because they were first issues with israelis and in the israeli press.  Read the astute jewish newspaper 'Forward' and you would have read about the current concern with Iran well before it came out of the mouths of Dan Rather or Peter Jennings (or George Bush).

- Dionysios


Umm as long as there are tax cuts i am pretty sure i will vote republican next time, so even if it is a popularity device , it does work, and it has its benefits
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flyingleaf

  • 91
President
« Reply #9 on: February 15, 2006, 04:08:52 PM »
I actually just voted yes, as the question was simply "was George Bush ANY good?"

He's been excellent as:

1) Fodder for comedians
2) Targets of ridicule for foreign nations
3) Commander-in-Chief of the U.S. Military

Let me explain 3):  His decisions have resulted in hundreds of thousands of foreign deaths (comparatively, not as many U.S. deaths) while demonstrating to the world how much a superpower the U.S is compared to everybody else.  Only historians from the future will be able to tell us whether that was a good move overall.

He is what we elected him to be.  It was in his platform!

And Dionysios: Bush is a traditional Catholic?  Where did you pull that nonsense from?
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Anonymous

Case of Mistaken Identity
« Reply #10 on: February 16, 2006, 02:04:59 PM »
I did not say that at all (it would be nonsense indeed).  If you read that correctly you will see that I was referring to 'NarrowPathPilgrim', not G.W. Bush (who was never elected president in the first place, not even in the fixed Kerry election which Kerry in truth did win, by the way).  
  As to his leadership of the US military, Bush has been horrible.  He is the leader of the largest terrorist organization in the world, the US military.  I am NOT proud to say I am currently in the US Navy as a submarine yeoman (I confess I joined for the money exactly 5 years ago - before 11 September 2001).  (I actually finish my term next week.)  As little chance as it has of happening, the world would be better off if the US military were abolished.  They have been the enforcer of the 'new world order' as largely designed by loyalists to Israel and greedy rich men like families with oil or media empires.  George Bush works for these people.  Jesus Christ said truly that the kings of the gentiles have masters over them and those that have power over them are called their benefactors.
  You are quite correct to say Bush has been good fodder for comedians.  However, I certainly do NOT believe by any means that american lives are worth more than anyone else's life in the Eyes of God.

Sincerely,
Dionysios
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flyingleaf

  • 91
President
« Reply #11 on: February 16, 2006, 03:12:36 PM »
Ah.  Oops.  That makes sense now.  My mistake.   Don't know how I managed to read it that way before.  Probably due to lack of dinner.

I somehow don't see NarrowPathPilgrim as a Catholic, since we don't hold the Bible as literal like Fundamentalist Christians, nor believe the Bible to be the sole source of divine revelation.  Well, technically, almost no Christian denomenation actually use the Bible as their sole source of teaching material.  The Catholics are just much more upfront about using other sources like Traditions and early Christian writings.  NPP probably would not be too happy that you called him a Catholic.

Bush won the 2004 election fair and square, as our political system defines fair and square.  Not much you or I can do there.  I am not agreeing with your conspiracy theories, but I will agree that government corruption is getting out of hand.  It's really sad when a government becomes so incompetent that it cannot cover up its scandals.

Last week?  Good for you.  Hope you have a very safe and uneventful week.
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logic!

  • 60
Re: Thumbs Down
« Reply #12 on: February 17, 2006, 11:49:39 PM »
Quote from: "Dionysios"
The Bush administration is deservedly at its low ebb of popularity.  Its aim is obviously to shift attention to something else which is where all this talk about Iran comes in.  (I am surprised Cinlef does not have a job with the Bush administration yet.) Clinton used the militias and the Oklahoma City bombing.  I think he was the lesser of two evil as to foreign policy, but I hate to throw him any praise at all because he bombed Serbia, not to mention other places.  
  I probably agree with more of NarrowPathPilgrim's views than most people on this site, but I think I am more on the American left than he is.  traditional Catholicism is very much opposed to freemasonry.  He is a conservative Catholic as far as I can tell.  I think Kerry would have been a lesser evil.  He and Bush are both for the war, but, the kind of people that gather around Kerry and that gather around Bush are different.  This would make a difference.  I also think america's presidents are a bad lot of freemasons, but jewish influence has been very powerful in american history, especially from the late nineteenth century onwards.  Even George Washington was financed by Jewish bankers from Holland.  I think america would be the worst country in history if the jews had not been behind the murder of Jesus Christ God.
  The fundamentalist rapture protestants are a hardcore pro-Bush and pro-Israel voting block.  The influence of Jerry Falwell, John Hagee, Pat Robertson, Jimmy Swagart, et cetera has only been helpful to Bush, and that is unfortunate.  
  Howard Dean seems to be the liberal equivalent of what Patrick Buchanan was in the nineties.  Dean is far to be preferred than Hilary Clinton, who has unambiguously stated her contempt for Iran.  Condoleeza Rice is an Uncle Tom in the service of rich white men and zionists.  Her background is with oil companies which is precisely where the Bush family's wealth comes from.
  As to a tax cut, I think that corporations and those in the in the service of what the administration wants will be the main beneficiaries of that.  A Bush tax cut is is a popularity device which that administration need so badly.
  The Bush family were business partners of the Bin Laden's in bygone years until the Bushes became the ir backstabbers.  This reminds me of scene I saw in the Mel Gibson movie Braveheart where Wallace rides in on horseback and smashes in the head of of his treasonous former ally.  It would be so truly beautiful to see Osama Bin Laden ride heroically into the white house on horseback and smash in Bush's skull while he's having nightmares in his bed about all the people he's killed in iraq and throughout the world coming back to doom him after the grave.
  To end with foreign policy, I think you will find most of what becomes talked about issues in american foreign policy are issues at all because they were first issues with israelis and in the israeli press.  Read the astute jewish newspaper 'Forward' and you would have read about the current concern with Iran well before it came out of the mouths of Dan Rather or Peter Jennings (or George Bush).

- Dionysios

I'm sorry my ancestors fucked up your country.

Sorry about all the great authors and musicians.

Oh, and Einstein.

I'm very sorry about Einstein.
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Anonymous

President
« Reply #13 on: February 18, 2006, 12:04:04 PM »
logic,
  As to Einstein, I recommend everyone read an excellent old book (from 1930) entitled 'The Case Against Einstein' by Arthur lynch which debunks the scientific writings of Einstein.  What, you think this is old?!  As if Einstein's nonsense was not older...  Another excellent book by Einstein's own right hand man who wrote explanations of his views when they first became widespread immediately after the first world war, but who had second thoughts during the 1950's and finally completely disavowed the theory of relativity in the 1971 work entitled 'Science At the Crossroads' by Herbert Dingle.  The only thing honoble I know that the Stalinist womanizer Abert Einstein ever did that was any good was declining the presidency of the state of Israel in 1952 upon the death of Chaim Weizmann.
  As to my country, if you mean america...it is not my country.  It truly belongs to the First Nations to come here, and it was stolen from them by european colonialists who still illegally posess it (read the excellent books by American Indian activist Ward Churchill).  If you think it is my country because I live here or serve in the military, then guess again.  I will be out of the military (honourably) this week, and I intend to depart this country forever in April.  I come from the British isles by heredity, but I follow the Orthodox Christian faith, which is what matters the most.

  What authors and musicians are you talking about?  On a visit to the United States in 1948 an Egyptian diplomat correctly said when all things are tallied at the end of the world, america's contribution to the arts, languages, and sciences, and all things for the betterment of mankind will amount to absolutely nothing.

And I still think the 2004 election was rigged, let alone the 2000 election.
They count it by computers and not in front of peoples' eyes but in secret.  Fair and square?  Give me a break.
"Treason doth not prosper...for if it prosper, none dare call it treason."

- Dionysios
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6strings

  • The Elder Ones
  • 689
President
« Reply #14 on: February 18, 2006, 06:46:14 PM »
Look, I dislike Bush as much as the next Canadian (which is to say I mock him behind his back, but don't really do anything about it), Steven Harper and his cabinet aside, but I was reading your post Dionysios, and caught this:

Quote
I also think america's presidents are a bad lot of freemasons, but jewish influence has been very powerful in american history, especially from the late nineteenth century onwards. Even George Washington was financed by Jewish bankers from Holland. I think america would be the worst country in history if the jews had not been behind the murder of Jesus Christ God.


1- Substantiate your claim of all of (or some of, I'm not sure how many you were refering to) america's presidents being freemasons.

2- What does "jewish influence" in america have to do with anything, especially Bush being a bad president?

3- Assuming you have proof that G. Washington was bankrolled by Jewish bankers from Holland, what makes you so sure that this was part of a Jewish plot to control America, as opposed to the fact that the Jewish guys in Holland were bankers, and so figured "hey if this guy wins we'll get a good return on this money?

4- This one deserves to be requoted:
Quote
I think america would be the worst country in history if the jews had not been behind the murder of Jesus Christ God.

I'm sorry, but, WTF?!?!  Ok, I get that you hate America, you're part of it's army, you're bound to resent it at least a little, unless you're an ardent fanatic, but what's with the whole jews killing Jesus thing?  See my problem with this is twofold.

A) You've cited, on multiple occasions, Arthur Koestler's "The Thirteenth Tribe", now assuming that this book is correct (actually, it's been debunked by genetic testing, but let's ignore that for a minute), Koestler's book would prove that it wasn't, in fact, the modern day Jews that murdered Christ, but you still seem to be violently opposed to them, as this is the second time you've referred to Jews killing Christ, and the whole not trusting Jewish people thing that were the focus of the previous points.

B) Even assuming that Christ was killed by people who were jewish, the fact that they were jewish doesn't mean that jewish people are bad (I know you didn't say that, but you think it rather loudly), why not take this to it's logical extension; people killed Christ (in fact, I'm pretty sure this was the point the Bible was trying to make), and draw whatever conclusions you want from there?

And as for your tirade against Einstein, regardless of whether his work has been debunked (not all of it has, for the record, although some of it is now being called into question), his theories did help advance scientific knowledge, so in that, he contributed a good deal.  And as for his being a "Stalinist", didn't you once refer to Stalin as "Uncle Joe"?
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Cinlef

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President
« Reply #15 on: February 18, 2006, 07:58:27 PM »
Dionysios said
Quote
I think america would be the worst country in history if the jews had not been behind the murder of Jesus Christ God.

Sigh it's truly saddening to see that under the maskof civilized dicourse  to the virulent anti-Semitism below. I'm don't think there is anything within me for all m anger that can truly express to just how sickening how dtiwsted and how ultimatly false this is as a view of the Jewish people. So I shall quote from men far wiser that I. To quote from Pope Paul VI Nostre Aetate
True, the Jewish authorities and those who followed their lead pressed for the death of Christ; still, what happened in His passion cannot be charged against all the Jews, without distinction, then alive, nor against the Jews of today. Although the Church is the new people of God, the Jews should not be presented as rejected or accursed by God, as if this followed from the Holy Scriptures. All should see to it, then, that in catechetical work or in the preaching of the word of God they do not teach anything that does not conform to the truth of the Gospel and the spirit of Christ. Furthermore, in her rejection of every persecution against any man, the Church, mindful of the patrimony she shares with the Jews and moved not by political reasons but by the Gospel's spiritual love, decries hatred, persecutions, displays of anti-Semitism, directed against Jews at any time and by anyone.
Other than this which I feel should invalidate your point or at least show people your view is far from the view of all Chrisitans or even the largest of the worlds religions.  I wonder what your reply perhpas the CAtholic CHurch is really the worlds biggest  Jewish conspiracy eh Dionysios? It does after all follow the teachings of a Jewish man wh was also God. Or perhaps you'll dissmiss it or ignore it such is the beauty of the willful blindness of prejudice. I ask you to seriously reread what you have written and ask yourself if you really think it isn't anti-Semetic. Then once you admit your anti Semetic well then perhaps you'll be able to combat your own prejudice. I sincerely hope so
An enraged and saddened
Cinlef
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Truth is great and will prevail-Thomas Jefferson

Quote from: Colonel Gaydafi on February 07, 2009, 03:54:06 AM
I've said it before and I'll say it again, Cinlef is the bestest!

Melior est sapientia quam vires-Wisdom
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6strings

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  • 689
President
« Reply #16 on: February 19, 2006, 07:16:18 AM »
I think Dionysios has previously voiced his discontent with the Catholic Church somewhere Cinlef, I seem to remember something to that effect (can't check his previous posts for obvious reasons).  Not that your point is invalid, just that he'll probably dodge it's relevance due to not trusting the Pope.
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logic!

  • 60
President
« Reply #17 on: February 19, 2006, 12:39:27 PM »
Quote from: "Anonymous"
logic,
  As to Einstein, I recommend everyone read an excellent old book (from 1930) entitled 'The Case Against Einstein' by Arthur lynch which debunks the scientific writings of Einstein.  What, you think this is old?!  As if Einstein's nonsense was not older...  Another excellent book by Einstein's own right hand man who wrote explanations of his views when they first became widespread immediately after the first world war, but who had second thoughts during the 1950's and finally completely disavowed the theory of relativity in the 1971 work entitled 'Science At the Crossroads' by Herbert Dingle.  The only thing honoble I know that the Stalinist womanizer Abert Einstein ever did that was any good was declining the presidency of the state of Israel in 1952 upon the death of Chaim Weizmann.
  As to my country, if you mean america...it is not my country.  It truly belongs to the First Nations to come here, and it was stolen from them by european colonialists who still illegally posess it (read the excellent books by American Indian activist Ward Churchill).  If you think it is my country because I live here or serve in the military, then guess again.  I will be out of the military (honourably) this week, and I intend to depart this country forever in April.  I come from the British isles by heredity, but I follow the Orthodox Christian faith, which is what matters the most.

  What authors and musicians are you talking about?  On a visit to the United States in 1948 an Egyptian diplomat correctly said when all things are tallied at the end of the world, america's contribution to the arts, languages, and sciences, and all things for the betterment of mankind will amount to absolutely nothing.

And I still think the 2004 election was rigged, let alone the 2000 election.
They count it by computers and not in front of peoples' eyes but in secret.  Fair and square?  Give me a break.
"Treason doth not prosper...for if it prosper, none dare call it treason."

- Dionysios

I would have to say that I respect the majority of scientists, who support Einstein's ideas, as opposed to the small minority who don't. Not because i think that the majority is always right, mind you, but rather because Einstein's ideas make sense and there is actual evidence for them.

As for Jewish authors, I'll stick to the American ones. This list is courtesy of Wikipedia. I've limited it to authors whom I've read.

Isaac Asimov
Saul Bellow
E.L. Doctorow
Howard Fast
Allen Ginsberg
Joseph Heller
Norman Mailer
S. J. Perlman
Philip Roth
J.D. Salinger (OK, his father's Jewish, but his mother's not. Count it if you want)
Shel Silverstein
Susan Sontag
Gertrude Stein
Harold Bloom
Carl Bernstein
Thomas Friedman
David Halberstam
Seymour Hersh
Joseph Brodsky
Robert Pinsky
Woody Allen
Mel Brooks
Tony Kushner
David Mamet
Arthur Miller
Neil Simon

Jewish musicians (I'll stick to the good ones)

Herb Alpert
Beck (Scientologist by choice, but his mother's Jewish, which is a win on a technicality for the Jews)
Leonard Cohen
Ani DiFranco
Bob Dylan
Arlo Guthrie
Lou Reed
Paul Simon
Efrim Menuck
Some guys from Angry Samoans
The Beastie Boys
Robbie Robertson
Chris Robinson
Al Kooper
Eric Bloom
Elliott Easton
The Circle Jerks
Mick Jones
Robbie Krieger
Pat Smear (Jewish father, not a clean win)
Richard Hell
Some of Jane's Addiction
Some of Jefferson Airplane
King Buzzo
Jonathan Richman
Mike Bloomfield
Some of the Patti Smith Group
David Freiberg
Hillel Slovak
Two from Sleater-Kinney
Art Garfunkel
Donald Fagen
Jack Black
Ton of jazz folk
More classical musicians than you can shake a stick at.

So yeah, I'm sorry that those guys are jewish. What a tragedy.
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6strings

  • The Elder Ones
  • 689
President
« Reply #18 on: February 20, 2006, 06:07:39 PM »
Hey, don't take credit for Leonard Cohen, he's 100% Canadian.  

That said, you really shouldn't be having to defend your religion by listing people that have contributed to society, or defending your religion at all, regardless of how.

See Dionysios, this is why anti-sematism (and all other forms of prejudism) is bad.
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Sharky

  • 83
President
« Reply #19 on: February 21, 2006, 07:04:40 AM »
Quote from: "Anonymous"
He's one of the greatest presidents in history, its a fact of life.
In the past no president has offered tax cuts every year, a 4-6% tax cut, tell me who else has done that?


In exchange of death and war
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johnsmith

  • 29
President
« Reply #20 on: February 22, 2006, 02:45:08 PM »
Quote from: "Cinlef"
Dionysios said
Quote
I think america would be the worst country in history if the jews had not been behind the murder of Jesus Christ God.

Sigh it's truly saddening to see that under the maskof civilized dicourse  to the virulent anti-Semitism below. I'm don't think there is anything within me for all m anger that can truly express to just how sickening how dtiwsted and how ultimatly false this is as a view of the Jewish people. So I shall quote from men far wiser that I. To quote from Pope Paul VI Nostre Aetate
True, the Jewish authorities and those who followed their lead pressed for the death of Christ; still, what happened in His passion cannot be charged against all the Jews, without distinction, then alive, nor against the Jews of today. Although the Church is the new people of God, the Jews should not be presented as rejected or accursed by God, as if this followed from the Holy Scriptures. All should see to it, then, that in catechetical work or in the preaching of the word of God they do not teach anything that does not conform to the truth of the Gospel and the spirit of Christ. Furthermore, in her rejection of every persecution against any man, the Church, mindful of the patrimony she shares with the Jews and moved not by political reasons but by the Gospel's spiritual love, decries hatred, persecutions, displays of anti-Semitism, directed against Jews at any time and by anyone.
Other than this which I feel should invalidate your point or at least show people your view is far from the view of all Chrisitans or even the largest of the worlds religions.  I wonder what your reply perhpas the CAtholic CHurch is really the worlds biggest  Jewish conspiracy eh Dionysios? It does after all follow the teachings of a Jewish man wh was also God. Or perhaps you'll dissmiss it or ignore it such is the beauty of the willful blindness of prejudice. I ask you to seriously reread what you have written and ask yourself if you really think it isn't anti-Semetic. Then once you admit your anti Semetic well then perhaps you'll be able to combat your own prejudice. I sincerely hope so
An enraged and saddened
Cinlef


It's nice that a Catholic Pope was a jew apologist and all, but what about his statement is false exactly? Was it the Chinese that had Jesus crucified?
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Cinlef

  • The Elder Ones
  • 969
  • The Earth is a Sphere
President
« Reply #21 on: February 23, 2006, 07:20:52 PM »
Roman soldiers did the actual Crucifying.
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Truth is great and will prevail-Thomas Jefferson

Quote from: Colonel Gaydafi on February 07, 2009, 03:54:06 AM
I've said it before and I'll say it again, Cinlef is the bestest!

Melior est sapientia quam vires-Wisdom
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logic!

  • 60
President
« Reply #22 on: February 23, 2006, 11:07:18 PM »
Quote from: "johnsmith"
Quote from: "Cinlef"
Dionysios said
Quote
I think america would be the worst country in history if the jews had not been behind the murder of Jesus Christ God.

Sigh it's truly saddening to see that under the maskof civilized dicourse  to the virulent anti-Semitism below. I'm don't think there is anything within me for all m anger that can truly express to just how sickening how dtiwsted and how ultimatly false this is as a view of the Jewish people. So I shall quote from men far wiser that I. To quote from Pope Paul VI Nostre Aetate
True, the Jewish authorities and those who followed their lead pressed for the death of Christ; still, what happened in His passion cannot be charged against all the Jews, without distinction, then alive, nor against the Jews of today. Although the Church is the new people of God, the Jews should not be presented as rejected or accursed by God, as if this followed from the Holy Scriptures. All should see to it, then, that in catechetical work or in the preaching of the word of God they do not teach anything that does not conform to the truth of the Gospel and the spirit of Christ. Furthermore, in her rejection of every persecution against any man, the Church, mindful of the patrimony she shares with the Jews and moved not by political reasons but by the Gospel's spiritual love, decries hatred, persecutions, displays of anti-Semitism, directed against Jews at any time and by anyone.
Other than this which I feel should invalidate your point or at least show people your view is far from the view of all Chrisitans or even the largest of the worlds religions.  I wonder what your reply perhpas the CAtholic CHurch is really the worlds biggest  Jewish conspiracy eh Dionysios? It does after all follow the teachings of a Jewish man wh was also God. Or perhaps you'll dissmiss it or ignore it such is the beauty of the willful blindness of prejudice. I ask you to seriously reread what you have written and ask yourself if you really think it isn't anti-Semetic. Then once you admit your anti Semetic well then perhaps you'll be able to combat your own prejudice. I sincerely hope so
An enraged and saddened
Cinlef


It's nice that a Catholic Pope was a jew apologist and all, but what about his statement is false exactly? Was it the Chinese that had Jesus crucified?

Christians had Jews executed, Jews had Christians executed, and everyone hates the fucking Muslims.

Except me.

But what's the fucking point? They're all wrong.
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mbczion

  • 106
President
« Reply #23 on: February 23, 2006, 11:46:59 PM »
Proud to be an Orthodox Jew :)
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Science and religion do NOT contradict one another, but are two truths." (from askmoses.com)

"Religion without science is blind, but science without religion is lame." - Albert Einstein
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johnsmith

  • 29
President
« Reply #24 on: February 24, 2006, 11:21:23 AM »
Quote from: "Cinlef"
Roman soldiers did the actual Crucifying.


Oh, good technicality. Not like the Romans cared either way. The jews turned Jesus over, and condemned him.  8-)
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Dionysios

  • 482
President
« Reply #25 on: February 24, 2006, 01:38:18 PM »
the
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Cinlef

  • The Elder Ones
  • 969
  • The Earth is a Sphere
President
« Reply #26 on: February 24, 2006, 03:00:01 PM »
A few things
Quote from: "Dionysios"
As to the Roman soldiers, of course they were following the orders of the Roman Governor Pontius Pilate who had been persuaded to give the order by the Jewish priests like Caiaphas (the high priest) and the others.  There is strong Orthodox Christian tradition that Pilate's wife became a Christian, and I know of a tradition in Ethiopia in which Pilate himself became a Christian and was forgiven his sin.  To be fair, the jews did at least have Nicodemus, although he represented the minority opinion among their leaders.  The point is the jewish leaders were the principle persons behind the crucufixion.  Pilate said more than once he had no desire to issue such an order.

Right well as to the first part of this it's not a technicallity is it? The jewish "nation at the time of Christ crucifixion was non-existent as Israel was a province of Rome. The Romans crucified Chirist, at the instigation of the high priest granted. However it's an interesting leap of reasoning to assume that means all jews either now or at the time should share responsability. I feel incumbent to point out that Christ and all his Apostles were Jewish. As to the comments about tradidtions regarding Pontius Pilate I too was aware of those if not in which country's they originated, while interesting I fail to see their relevance

Quote from: "Dionysios"

On a side note, I would say "genetic testing" which I am unfamiliar with in respect to Arthur Koestler's 'Thirteenth Tribe' sounds like a flimsy dismissal of the book which has had a considerable influence.  I am not a biologist or a geneticist, but a group of "jews" with blue eyes and brown hair and european facial features sounds to me related to their european brethren (brethren indeed) in everything except religion (but 6strings was probably referring to some "authoritative study" (by who? the Simon Weisenthal Centre?).  It sounds like somebody does not like the message of the book, and has a desire to glean attention away from the well documented history in it.

Right I don't know what 6strings is referring too so I won't comment on it. However what is with you hatred for Simon Weisenthal?

Quote from: "Dionysios"

No evidence of jewish influence in Bush administration?
  I can hardly believe that some persons are unaware of jewish influence in the Bush administration.  Where do we begin?  How about current World Bank president Paul Wolfowitz, the former undersecreary of Defense who planned out the iraqi invasion, or his mentor Richard Perle, both of whom are jewish neo-conservatives.  The entire neo-conservative movement was founded by a jew, Kristol.  Kristol was a Trotskyite who changed some of his views in the sixties as he saw the US as a vehicle for zionist aims.  (The defition of the neo-conservatives are old liberals turned conservative in some respects which is precisely what characterizes Kristol.)  A zionist? you say.  He is very pro-Israel.  His son William Kristol is editor-in-chief of the Rupert Murdoch's Weekly Standard, the neo-conservative movement's flagship journal.  (Murdoch's mother is a jew, by the way.  Reagan's lifelong friend and financier (and Nixon's as well) was a jewish media mogul who sold his media empire to Rupert Murdoch in 1998.  William Kristol and Richard Perle have each organized a vast network of powerful individuals (in the media and politics respectively) which have the same aims.  The 'Nation' and other news magazines/news sources who do not follow the controlled news of Kristol's outreach have exposed political ties to Israel with members of Richard Perle's network.  I could write considerably more, but to suffice for now to say that books have been written on this.

Dionysios Jewish people with influence in the BUsh administration  and in past Republican administration doesn't equate to a Jewish conspiracy to control the administration. Condoleeza Rice holds an important Bush administration post yet you don't talk about a African American conspiracy to control the Bush administration. Some people who are jewish having influence doesn't equate to jewish influence, thats assuming that all Jews have the same beliefs. As for books having been written on it thats a worthless remark unless you provide titles and or authros so people can c heck the reference,
An enraged
Cinlef
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Truth is great and will prevail-Thomas Jefferson

Quote from: Colonel Gaydafi on February 07, 2009, 03:54:06 AM
I've said it before and I'll say it again, Cinlef is the bestest!

Melior est sapientia quam vires-Wisdom
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6strings

  • The Elder Ones
  • 689
President
« Reply #27 on: February 26, 2006, 06:25:45 PM »
Actually, I was referring to the Genetic Analysis of Jewish Origins done by Harry Ostrer and Michael Hammer.  I haven't checked if they were funded by the Simon Weisenthal Center, but frankly, I don't care.  Also, I'd like to point out that Judaism is a religion, not a race.

Also, even if we assume Arthur Koestler is right, why do you assume that Jewish people are behind virtually every major event to happen to man-kind?  Like the "myth" of the Holocaust, killing of Jesus (which if we're assuming Koestler is right, modern-day jews didn't do, although you seem to dislike them just as much), American Revolution (funding of Washington) etc.  (Here I'm assuming that your rationalization for your dislike of Jewish people runs along the lines of "Jewish people killed Jesus, therefore I hate Jewish people", which while ridiculous, would explain a lot about you, of course, if you have another rationale to explain it, feel free to share it.)

Furthermore, could you answer these points or are you going to ignore them?

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1- Substantiate your claim of all of (or some of, I'm not sure how many you were refering to) america's presidents being freemasons.

2- What does "jewish influence" in america have to do with anything, especially Bush being a bad president?

3- Assuming you have proof that G. Washington was bankrolled by Jewish bankers from Holland, what makes you so sure that this was part of a Jewish plot to control America, as opposed to the fact that the Jewish guys in Holland were bankers, and so figured "hey if this guy wins we'll get a good return on this money?

For 3, I'd like to echo Cinlef's coment of Jewish people being in the Bush administration not amounting to Jewish conspiracy to control the government.
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Silent Knight

  • 59
President
« Reply #28 on: March 15, 2006, 12:20:16 AM »
Can I please have a one post summary of how we got from G.W.B's presidential ability to whether Jews are any good? Though I do agree about the lack of genetic basis for any religious group, I can't convert and become Filipino after all.
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6strings

  • The Elder Ones
  • 689
President
« Reply #29 on: March 15, 2006, 03:07:15 AM »
It happened here:
Quote from: "Dionysios"
The Bush administration is deservedly at its low ebb of popularity. Its aim is obviously to shift attention to something else which is where all this talk about Iran comes in. (I am surprised Cinlef does not have a job with the Bush administration yet.) Clinton used the militias and the Oklahoma City bombing. I think he was the lesser of two evil as to foreign policy, but I hate to throw him any praise at all because he bombed Serbia, not to mention other places.
I probably agree with more of NarrowPathPilgrim's views than most people on this site, but I think I am more on the American left than he is. traditional Catholicism is very much opposed to freemasonry. He is a conservative Catholic as far as I can tell. I think Kerry would have been a lesser evil. He and Bush are both for the war, but, the kind of people that gather around Kerry and that gather around Bush are different. This would make a difference. I also think america's presidents are a bad lot of freemasons, but jewish influence has been very powerful in american history, especially from the late nineteenth century onwards. Even George Washington was financed by Jewish bankers from Holland. I think america would be the worst country in history if the jews had not been behind the murder of Jesus Christ God.
The fundamentalist rapture protestants are a hardcore pro-Bush and pro-Israel voting block. The influence of Jerry Falwell, John Hagee, Pat Robertson, Jimmy Swagart, et cetera has only been helpful to Bush, and that is unfortunate.
Howard Dean seems to be the liberal equivalent of what Patrick Buchanan was in the nineties. Dean is far to be preferred than Hilary Clinton, who has unambiguously stated her contempt for Iran. Condoleeza Rice is an Uncle Tom in the service of rich white men and zionists. Her background is with oil companies which is precisely where the Bush family's wealth comes from.
As to a tax cut, I think that corporations and those in the in the service of what the administration wants will be the main beneficiaries of that. A Bush tax cut is is a popularity device which that administration need so badly.
The Bush family were business partners of the Bin Laden's in bygone years until the Bushes became the ir backstabbers. This reminds me of scene I saw in the Mel Gibson movie Braveheart where Wallace rides in on horseback and smashes in the head of of his treasonous former ally. It would be so truly beautiful to see Osama Bin Laden ride heroically into the white house on horseback and smash in Bush's skull while he's having nightmares in his bed about all the people he's killed in iraq and throughout the world coming back to doom him after the grave.
To end with foreign policy, I think you will find most of what becomes talked about issues in american foreign policy are issues at all because they were first issues with israelis and in the israeli press. Read the astute jewish newspaper 'Forward' and you would have read about the current concern with Iran well before it came out of the mouths of Dan Rather or Peter Jennings (or George Bush).

- Dionysios

Basically, Dionysios was claiming that America is merely a zionist-controlled puppet, dancing to the tune to jewish whims...dating as far back as the American revolution, and this is why America is a bad country.  Also, he's angry because jewish people killed God.
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