Poll

Is George Bush any good?

yes
13 (25%)
no
39 (75%)

Total Members Voted: 41

Voting closed: January 18, 2006, 06:53:12 AM

President

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President
« Reply #60 on: April 16, 2006, 05:14:40 PM »
the

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Erasmus

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President
« Reply #61 on: April 16, 2006, 07:05:20 PM »
Quote from: "Dionysios"
The state of Idrael has long stated as its goal to acquire all the land in the near east.


As far as I can tell, that is a false accusation and lie which misinforms and misleads people to adopt a false view of Israel.

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As far as being racist, you Cinlef are a racist against the whole world on account of the jews.


This seems fairly incoherent to me.

-Erasmus
Why did the chicken cross the Möbius strip?

President
« Reply #62 on: April 16, 2006, 07:23:25 PM »
the

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Cinlef

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President
« Reply #63 on: April 17, 2006, 07:31:29 PM »
Okay Dionysios lets break this down point by point again.
Quote from: "Dionysios"
The state of Idrael has long stated as its goal to acquire all the land in the near east.

You know what backs up statements like this?A citation of sources. Cite me the relevant passages in the Israeli constitution, the relevant speech by high ranking Isreali offcials the declassified documents the leaked documents whatever but until you cite them that statment can be  ignored.
(Also I assume you mean Israel and not Idrael since the latter does not seem to be a real place.)
Next
Quote from: "Dionysios"
The state of Iran does not state as its goal to annihilate Jews.  That is a false accusation and lie which misinforms and misleads people to adopt a false view of Iran.

Wait the president of Iran is constantly calling for the destruction of Israel.....oh I see you deal with that here
Quote from: "Dionysios"
The elimination of israel as a state is a good thing which I belikeve in myself along with all traditional jews who believe also the state of Israel does not have a reason to exist because they believe only the jewish messiah should return the the jewish people to Palestine.  Such myriad jewish organizations and movements include the Neturei Karta as well as most hassidic jews as far as ashkenazi jews go.  I am not as knowledgeable of specific sephardec organizations, but they are only more traditional.  And among secular jews, the state of israel was never more unpopular.  They seem very much to have the same political opininions as their arab neighbors (as far as being critical of the israeli government) as the likud only got 10 % in the most recent israeli elections and centrist governments were the only thing viable for the israeli right.

Okay so you acknolodging that you and Iran want the state of Israel destroyed. Many groups of Jewish people seems to want the same or a similar thing. Okay two things one why to you always differentiate between ashkenazi and sephardec Jews? Is seems not relevant. Also this response seems to miss the point Erasmus and I were trying to make, which was that a state commited to the destruction of its neighbours shouldn't have nuclear weapons. I assume (perhaps wrongly) that should want a peaceful dissolution of Israel rather than it dying in nuclear fire something which seems likely if a state officially commited to it's destruction.
Moving on
Quote from: "Dionysios"
As far as being racist, you Cinlef are a racist against the whole world on account of the jews.  I cannot retain any respect for you at all when you make such declamations against myself.

Dionysios I clearly illustrated my reasoning for calling you rascist. I put it in point form no less. You have not shown or even explained your allegations of me being racist. While ad hominem attacks are fun, they don't relaly add to the debate. IIf you answer my reasons for calling you rascist I will cheerfully withdraw my stament.No worries about the respect thing by the way your respect I can do without.
Next point.
Quote from: "Dionysios"
As far as mundi goes, I respect him more than I do you.  At least he had the integrity to keep his word when he said he did not have any desire to have any sort of debate with myself.    

Err you respect him yet you racially slurred him? He refused to continue debating with you after you used a racial slur to answer his argument. I never said I would cease debating with you nor will I. To let your staments go unchallenged would be a betrayal of the truth. SOmething which I value most highly.
Moving on
Quote from: "Dionysios"
 It is also sad to see you admiring tactics like those used often in dictatorships of men having their political enemies placed in psychiatric facilities.    

Err thats not what I said. I didn't say Irans president should be put in a mental institute because he disgrees with me, lently of people who disagree with me are perfectly sane. I felt he should be institutionalized as he was in the quote I read (which I grant could have been taken out of context or very badly translated) exhibiting signs of delusion and megolomania. Even someone who believes everything I do but started acting deluded and like a megolomaniac should be institutionalized. I don't approve of anyone being institutionalized for their politicla or religious beliefs as (you are right to say) is the action of tyrants and dictators. I apologize if my stament lead you to conclude that. I mean to say that some comments Irans president made stating that at the UN he was ingulfed in a divine golden aura (paraphrase). seemed to me in the context they were presented to indicate he was mentally unstable. If he is in fact mentally unstable he should be receiving the proper help not governing a fairly powerful nation.
Next
Quote from: "Dionysios"
As far as I am concerned, the only people who need to see psychiatrists are psychiatrists.  This field of study is only one of many poisons to come out of the modern west and which was founded by a western jew.
- Dionysios

See Dionysios it's comments like this that lead me to call you anti Semetic.  YOu hate psychiatry (without expain why althought that really needs its own thread) and blame it a social evil (NOTE you haven't explained why its a social evil and I do not agree it is one) and blame it on a jewish person.(I assume you were refferring to Freud? not that it's relevant really except that this is one of the rare cases where Jewish people were actually involved in something you alledge them to be involved with). That remark seems anti-Jewish as it seems to have no relevance to the conversation but just a random segway wherien ytou claim something evil  (or that you believe to be evil) is the fault of Jewish people.
In conlcusion you haven't answered my points in any meanigful way. I'd like for you to answer my allegations of rascist from my prefvious post  please explain why you aren't rascsist point by point, and then to move on to deal witth the other points I made.
T'ill next time
An enraged
Cinlef[/quote]
Truth is great and will prevail-Thomas Jefferson

I've said it before and I'll say it again, Cinlef is the bestest!

Melior est sapientia quam vires-Wisdom

President
« Reply #64 on: April 18, 2006, 12:50:12 AM »
the

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andelijah

President
« Reply #65 on: May 11, 2006, 07:14:02 PM »
Quote
Alas, the principle point I which to make in connection with this before going on to jewish topics is that the term nigger is not inherently racist of itself as it does not by definition connotate anything racial at all. To infer that the word refers to black or African people is a racist insult towards those people which is why you are racisr for giving the word that racist meaning. It does no good to quote dictionaries composed by racist white men as the older dictionaries justify what I am saying. Everyone who uses or even classifies the word nigger as a term for people of dark colour or African race is guilty of racism, not to mention bad grammar.


Although you may not consider the word to be inherently racist, the majority of people reading it will.  It was a derogitory (sp?) term for Blacks very recently and many people still consider it to be a racially charged term.  Just as you "occassionally" use "Jew" or others could use "Gay" to describe things they don't like.  You may not hate the group refered to, but people hearing you often will and take offense.  To avoid that, you should avoid words that might refer to groups of people or risk being called racist.


Quote
2. As to the jews, you and anyone who defends the state of israel are all anti-semitic. I have explained this to you earlier and refuse to do so again. You indicated that you understand yet indicated at the same time that if you continue to never the less use the term anti-semitic in the same wrong way in the future I should understand the sense you mean it in. I do understand that you are implying I am a racist against jews when you say that, but just because you use the term incorrectly, do not be surprised when I use it in the proper context. And if you are lost when i say you are anti-semitic for defending the state of israel, it is only an indication of your wilful ignorance.


I'm unsure of how defending the Jewish people can be classified as anti-semitism.  According to various dictionaries anti-semitism is defined as:

Quote
Hostility toward or prejudice against Jews or Judaism.


I can't quite understand how defending them could be considered a hostile or prejudiced action against them.  And if you try to refute that by saying something like "The jews wrote the dictionary," you are truely an idiot.


Quote
And I do believe you are a white racist against arabs and blacks. The kind of jews you support are whites from europe who stole arab land


Semi-true, if you twist the data a little.  History usually agrees that they were given the land by the allies after the War, but you could argue that those states had no right to give it to them.

Quote
as terrorists who set up an imperialist backed settler state which terrorizes and persecutes the native arab palestinians.


Imperialist implies they have aspirations for more foreign land.  Last time I checked, they won the war against the other nine or ten arab nations, and then gave back all military victories.  They kept their own state.
And they have given the Palestinians land, or are trying to set up methods to slowly return power to the Palestinians.  Just because they refuse to return all land to the Palestinians that was taken 40 years ago and refuse to leave Jerusalem does not mean they are terrorists.
As for the persecution, I would too if my next door neighbors started sending over suicide bombers every other week, my own interests come before anyone else's no matter how rutheless that might sound.


Quote
As to why I believe the canadian government is more oppressive than Iran. What I read about the canadian government the most is its curtailment of liberties. You cited one flimsy case of the Iranian government holding someone that knew someone that knew someone that you were associated with. Yeahhhh, right. The Canadian government has a record of arresting, jailing, fining, and imprisoning anyone who publicly questions the veracity of the jewish holocaust myth. At the same time, the canadian government has no problem for people to publicly deny the existence of God.


I wonder why you heard about the Canadian abuse of liberties and not the Iranian ones.  Maybe because Iran is under a totalitarian government that does not allow personal freedoms, much less the media to report stories to the rest of the world.  The fact that you hear about such things would seem to disprove your assertion that
Quote
Canada's censorship of the truth is comparable to what turkey does in jailing and deporting those Armenians who publicize the slaughter of 1915, not to mention their slaughter of the Hellenes in western Asia Minor during the same period.



Quote
The canadian government is an uncivilised oppresser which disrespects religion while the Iranian government has a refeshing interest in religion (a rare thing in today's world) and a tolerance for diverse views to evidence its publishing of holocaust revisionist articles by knowledgeable western historians in the Tehran Times.


Once again some actual source would be nice to back up some of these claims.  And if you think forced religious conformity or death is a "refreshing interest on religion," I would hazard a guess that you are one of a very small minority.

President
« Reply #66 on: May 12, 2006, 01:14:24 AM »
the

Re: Thumbs Down
« Reply #67 on: May 12, 2006, 02:21:13 AM »
Quote from: "Dionysios"

...but jewish influence...
...jews had not been behind the murder of Jesus Christ God...
...The fundamentalist rapture protestants...
...Condoleeza Rice is an Uncle Tom...
...rich white men and zionists...


Racist and Bigot. I got news for you pal. The jews couldn't kill a godman that never existed(I'll make my own thread on this sometime). Also putting down the most powerful and self-made black woman on the face of the earth and then championing yourself a warrior of equality via socialism in another thread is quite hypocritical.


Quote from: "Dionysios"

Her background is with oil companies which is precisely where the Bush family's wealth comes from.
 


He's a game. Let's play "Who's has made more money utilizing the American capitalist system and it's financial benefits and tax shelters?"

President George W. Bush or Self-Proclaimed "Champion of the Little Guy" Michael Moore?

Hell why not try this one:

GWBush or Noam Chomsky?

It's a trick question obviously. Bush is worth less then them both.

Don't bash people for making money. Bash the people that told you making money was bad for making money themselves.

I've had some problems with various things Bush has done. But overall I don't have a problem with him. A lot of the crap in the media about him is just that, crap. Everyone on the left is trying to stick it to him and then put it on the air, most of which is liberally controlled. Meh. You would have to analyze it like 20 years from now to get the full picture, right now it's just too clouded with negative liberal crap. (Much like how the 50s was full of positive conservative crap)

President
« Reply #68 on: May 12, 2006, 02:46:54 AM »
the

President
« Reply #69 on: May 12, 2006, 05:02:51 AM »
the

President
« Reply #70 on: May 12, 2006, 05:09:45 AM »
Quote from: "Cinlef"
There is a word for people who think that only they and a
few other people are sane mate. And the word isnt sane


Says the one who believes in a Flat Earth.

There is a word for people who believe that the Government has been covering a huge secret since the discovery of a round earth, spending well over any known figure to keep it a secret. And the word isn't sane.

Quote from: "Dionysios"
I think Bill Clinton was the lesser of two evils when compared with George Bush.

- Dionysios


What did Clinton do? Why do people care about Clinton's sex life. It's his own private life, why should care?

I think it's safe to say that Bush is a idiot. But i'm from the UK so I really don't know much about presidents.

President
« Reply #71 on: May 12, 2006, 05:13:00 AM »
the

President
« Reply #72 on: May 12, 2006, 05:15:18 AM »
lol oh well, if he was a FE'er he was Owned :P

Why is it not about presidency, has it gone way of topic?

President
« Reply #73 on: May 12, 2006, 05:16:46 AM »
the

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Erasmus

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President
« Reply #74 on: May 12, 2006, 11:46:01 AM »
Quote from: "andelijah"
I'm unsure of how defending the Jewish people can be classified as anti-semitism.  According to various dictionaries anti-semitism is defined as:

Quote
Hostility toward or prejudice against Jews or Judaism.


The dictionary is wrong.  A Semite is a descended of Shem -- one of the sons of Noah, Shem, Ham, and Japheth.  Shem's descendants repopulated Sinai, Egypt, Persia, Mesopotamia, and the Levant after the flood, so all peoples indigenous to those regions are Semites.  Probably, refering to Jew-defenders as anti-Semites stems from the conception that Jews are invaders who oppress other Semites, in particular Palestinians.

-Erasmus
Why did the chicken cross the Möbius strip?

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andelijah

President
« Reply #75 on: May 12, 2006, 12:09:51 PM »
Quote from: Erasmus
The dictionary is wrong.


It's not just one...

My two dictionaries at home as well as dictionary.com  and hyperdictionary.com use that definition as the only definition.

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6strings

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President
« Reply #76 on: May 12, 2006, 12:16:01 PM »
Fine, andelijah, both dictionaries are wrong.  

Erasmus, yeah, you're right, but making that assumption (that jewish people are invaders) rests fairly heavily on the thesis Arthuer Koestler explored in "The Thirteenth Tribe", which has been debunked thoroughly (I think I even posted a link to one of the scientific investigations that debunked it in this very thread).  Of course, Dionysios may have other, equally invalid, reasons for believing Jewish people are not semetic, but I've yet to hear of them.

As an aside:  Dionysios, you seem to have mellowed out a bit, being out of the army seems to be doing you some good  
 :wink:

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Erasmus

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President
« Reply #77 on: May 12, 2006, 12:23:24 PM »
Quote from: "6strings"
Erasmus, yeah, you're right, but making that assumption (that jewish people are invaders) rests fairly heavily on the thesis Arthuer Koestler explored in "The Thirteenth Tribe", which has been debunked thoroughly (I think I even posted a link to one of the scientific investigations that debunked it in this very thread).  Of course, Dionysios may have other, equally invalid, reasons for believing Jewish people are not semetic, but I've yet to hear of them.


I wasn't claiming that people who say Jews are anti-Semitic are also saying that Jews are not themselves Semitic... I'm saying that people who say that are saying that there are some Semites (Jews) whose actions are detrimental to Semites as a whole.

:)
Why did the chicken cross the Möbius strip?

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6strings

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President
« Reply #78 on: May 12, 2006, 12:45:55 PM »
Ah, thanks for clearing that up Erasmus.
Although, this problem exists for virtually all ethnicities, and I see no reason to concentrate solely on jews being anti-semetic, because this problem (the phenomenon of hating one's own ethnicity) is more the fault of the individual than it is of the person's race or religion.

I think the reason I interpretted this the way I did is because Dionysios has stated numerous times that he doesn't consider himself anti-semetic, but rather, anti-zionist, which is a bellief that hinges on Koestler's thesis.

Sorry for the confusion.

President
« Reply #79 on: May 12, 2006, 02:28:52 PM »
Quote from: "Dionysios"
George Bush has less money than Chomsky or Moore?
What loophole are you referring too and what a pity you convinced yourself of that one.

So you're infatuated with that bitch in the news...
Sorry to be the one to break it to you, but we're afraid GW beat you to the punch.

  And again the old shibboleth receives rejuvenation from a new generation of neo-conservtives who ar "fed up" with the "liberal dominated media."  We are all familar with this classic, but you crack me up, man.

  On the more serious side, I thank you for your honesty in declaring where you stand with reguard to Jesus the Christ, as that is the most important item, reguardless of anything wrong you or I have ever done.

- Dionysios


in 2004 Michael Moore grossed close to 50 million, with networth of about 75million. His foundation owns stock in Haliburton and other defense contractors. Hmm hypocritical much?

in 2004 Chomsky was worth about 5 million, but if you include the assets he has copyrighted under his daughter's name to protect him from taxes, it raises to about 10million. 2 weeks after 9/11, Chomsky raised his speaking fee from 9,000 to 12,000, seeing that he was in higher demand. He also threw together a book of some speeches and interviews with him in a month and it hit the best-seller list in over 10 countries. Talk about a war profiteer.

Bush has been estimated to be worth between 7-9 million(2004). surprise.

Sources? IRS documents.

And yes, I don't think Jesus, the Jesus in the bible, ever existed historically. It has nothing to go with me hating religion or anything like that. Infact I was raised Catholic, went to both public and Catholic grade school, and public and Catholic high school. Ok I didn't go to an "Official" Catholic high school, it's an all boy's school run by Catholic brothers and monks(LaSalle College High School, look it up if you care enough). I recieved quite a bit of knowledge of the Catholic religion and other religions there. My doubt of the existance of a historical Jesus stems from the fact that myself, as long as many other historians, cannont find any definative and undenyable proof of his existance. I can and probably will explain this in another thread if you like, this isn't the thread for that.


EDIT: I've also been informed by a good Indian friend (very liberal friend) Amar that it's quite trendy to be anti-american in India. Perhaps this explains Dion's rabid denouciation of anything american.

President
« Reply #80 on: May 13, 2006, 10:57:38 AM »
the

President
« Reply #81 on: May 13, 2006, 11:24:56 AM »
the

President
« Reply #82 on: May 13, 2006, 04:15:26 PM »
Quote from: "Dionysios"
troubador,

  I couldn't care less about Chomsky's income figures.  If you believe the IRS reflects Bush's wealth accurately, then I believe you are wrong, but I am not going ape over it.  Believing those statements about Moore's ties with Haliburton sounds like crap coming from you.  Got any evidence of that?  I still believe what he's says in his books is good stuff.  Again, I am not going ape over all that political what's what.  It's rather petty compared to some other issues.

  I was pleased to see something like a consensus develop which was actually based on truth courtesy of Erasmus.

  The only significant thing in all those foregoing posts I disagree with is 6strings claim about the origin of ashkenazi jewry.  I have seen histories older than Koestler's take his position.  I'll look into the said web link, as I confess I have never checked into it, but if it's anything akin to "DNA analysis" then I will print it out and use it as toilet tissue.

- Dionysios



It actually does matter Dion. If the things that these bastions of the left preach aren't good enough for their preachers to follow, it says something about them. Chomsky preaches against protectionism and trusts and tax shelters. Yet he copyrights all of his speeches and books. Of course you could just go on his website and listen to him talk for 1 minute about several subjects, for $.79 a download. It is advised on his website against listening to his speeches without paying. You could however licsense out his material, for several thousand dollars. Chomsky also has a trust that protects the money within it from taxes, claiming that he is saving for daughter. So what is wrong with anyone else doing the same thing? What about the fact that he waxes on an on about how nobody in academia should accept money from the pentagon, yet his entire department recieves several million dollars a year from the air force and navy. He even contributed to the war effort in vietnam by working on english to binary computers for the airforce(voice regonition systems, etc), then turned around and said that nobody anywhere should help the pentagon in any way with the war. All the while recieving a big fat check courtesy of the pentagon, now for almost 40 years. Chomsky even licenses out his name. You can have a review written by him on your left-wing book or movie by paying him a nominal fee. Chomsky has turned himself into a corporate brandname. The plain fact of it is that Chomsky, is nothing more then a big fat capitalist, who cleverly disguises himself as not. Chomsky was asked in India by a reporter, after denoucing the US on the usual grounds of it being a police state and all that, "Where do you get the courage to denouce his government and other governments around the world?" Chomsky replied, "It doesn't take much courage at all. If people in other parts of the world said such things about their governments they would face charges of rebellion. But I can speak freely as I have an American passport." Admitting that the country he denouces so often protects his right to do so. Quite a contradiction.

Don't get me started on Moore. I'll make another post as I don't have the time right now.

And what reason does the IRS have for not accurately reporting the president's income? What motivation? In order to become president one has to make all of their tax documents public. The IRS has not hid or misrepresented any other president's income, why Bush? It was common knowledge that during the election that Bush was worth around 9 million a year and Kerry was worth upwards of 220million, over a billion if you include his wife.

President
« Reply #83 on: May 14, 2006, 01:53:39 AM »
the

President
« Reply #84 on: May 14, 2006, 02:02:06 AM »
cheesejof,

  Speaking of being critical of Chomsky, I have come up with one area where I am not so sure I agree with him and that is his negative opinion of the Kennedy presidency.  Perhaps I am wrong, but he seems to state that Kennedy contributed to the buildup in Vietnam and others say his inclination was in the other direction.  It seems to me the Kennedy brothers were much more third world oriented leaders than most other statesmen from this country.  Anyone who thinks Chomsky's negative opinion of Kennedy unwarranted?

- Dionysios

President
« Reply #85 on: May 14, 2006, 02:47:21 AM »
Quote from: "Dionysios"
cheesejof,

  Speaking of being critical of Chomsky, I have come up with one area where I am not so sure I agree with him and that is his negative opinion of the Kennedy presidency.  Perhaps I am wrong, but he seems to state that Kennedy contributed to the buildup in Vietnam and others say his inclination was in the other direction.  It seems to me the Kennedy brothers were much more third world oriented leaders than most other statesmen from this country.  Anyone who thinks Chomsky's negative opinion of Kennedy unwarranted?

- Dionysios


president kennedy did give the go ahead for covert commando operations in vietnam.

*

Chris Spaghetti

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Re: President
« Reply #86 on: December 05, 2008, 08:15:05 AM »
All world leaders ars penguins.  It's in the job description.

As Jarvis Cocker said; penguins are still running the world.

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Sexual Harassment Panda

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Re: President
« Reply #87 on: December 05, 2008, 02:09:16 PM »
All world leaders ars penguins.  It's in the job description.

As Jarvis Cocker said; penguins are still running the world.
I don't believe this.
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