Bay of Fundy - FE Tides

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rabinoz

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Re: Bay of Fundy - FE Tides
« Reply #30 on: July 23, 2019, 05:56:33 PM »
You did, kinda, not really, but whatever. The OP is why are the tides at the bay of fundy so extreme compared to the rest of the world. You answered something about the gulf stream. Is the gulf stream more powerful than anywhere else on the planet?

Bonus round: What causes tides across the flat earth?

Yes, the Gulf Stream is the fastest ocean current in the world with peak velocities near 2m/s.
If the Gulf Stream is the prime cause why does the tide rise and fall on average twice in about a day plus 50 minutes?

Quote from: Plat Terra
If the Moons gravity creates tides why is fresh bodies of water non-tidal? They too are under the moon and sun.
Larger fresh water lakes are slightly tidal.
The height of tides is caused by two comparatively small bulges sweeping around the earth into the shallower water around continents.
This makes the tidal patterns very complex around places like the British Isles and Western Australia.
I've been in Derby, Western Australia, and seen 9 metre tides then further down the coast near Carnarvon with less than 50 cm tides.
In these places tidal flows can come from two directions leading to even four tides a day in a few places.

The usual two high tides a day is not simply caused by the moon's gravitation on the near side but the very slight difference in the moon's gravitation on the side near the moon and the side away from the moon.

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Stash

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Re: Bay of Fundy - FE Tides
« Reply #31 on: July 23, 2019, 06:20:40 PM »
So why wouldn't that affect a feather too? The surface of a ocean weighs more, right?
Haven't you heard that the downward force of gravity is proportional to the mass of the object?

A pigeon tail feather (~10 cm) long has a mass of about 0.05 g.
Only one cubic metre of seawater has a mass of about 1029 kg.

'Nuff said!


Haven't you head we are talking about a force that makes the oceans bulge, raise in height and increase earths surface curvature and sphere earth is more shaped like an egg?

Actually, the OP asked for a flat earth explanation of the tides.

And I gave an answer that applied to what was asked.

You did, kinda, not really, but whatever. The OP is why are the tides at the bay of fundy so extreme compared to the rest of the world. You answered something about the gulf stream. Is the gulf stream more powerful than anywhere else on the planet?

Bonus round: What causes tides across the flat earth?

Yes, the Gulf Stream is the fastest ocean current in the world with peak velocities near 2m/s.

If the Moons gravity creates tides why is fresh bodies of water non-tidal? They too are under the moon and sun.

From NOAA: The average speed of the Gulf Stream, however, is four miles per hour (6.4 kilometers per hour). The current slows to a speed of about one mile per hour (1.6 kilometers per hour) as it widens to the north.

You need a big body of water (mass) to create tides. For instances, the Great Lakes have tides.

Now what creates tides on the flat earth other than the Atlantic gulf stream? And how could the Great Lakes have tides on a flat earth?

No, the Great Lakes are considered Non-Tidal. That's a fact.

https://oceanservice.noaa.gov/facts/gltides.html

Now my question still remains to be answered.

If the Moons gravity creates tides why is fresh bodies of water non-tidal? They too are under the moon and sun.

From the link you provided: "True tides—changes in water level caused by the gravitational forces of the sun and moon—do occur in a semi-diurnal (twice daily) pattern on the Great Lakes."

What causes tides across the flat earth? Weird that you keep dodging the question.

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Plat Terra

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Re: Bay of Fundy - FE Tides
« Reply #32 on: July 23, 2019, 06:38:39 PM »
So why wouldn't that affect a feather too? The surface of a ocean weighs more, right?
Haven't you heard that the downward force of gravity is proportional to the mass of the object?

A pigeon tail feather (~10 cm) long has a mass of about 0.05 g.
Only one cubic metre of seawater has a mass of about 1029 kg.

'Nuff said!


Haven't you head we are talking about a force that makes the oceans bulge, raise in height and increase earths surface curvature and sphere earth is more shaped like an egg?

Actually, the OP asked for a flat earth explanation of the tides.

And I gave an answer that applied to what was asked.

You did, kinda, not really, but whatever. The OP is why are the tides at the bay of fundy so extreme compared to the rest of the world. You answered something about the gulf stream. Is the gulf stream more powerful than anywhere else on the planet?

Bonus round: What causes tides across the flat earth?

Yes, the Gulf Stream is the fastest ocean current in the world with peak velocities near 2m/s.

If the Moons gravity creates tides why is fresh bodies of water non-tidal? They too are under the moon and sun.

From NOAA: The average speed of the Gulf Stream, however, is four miles per hour (6.4 kilometers per hour). The current slows to a speed of about one mile per hour (1.6 kilometers per hour) as it widens to the north.

You need a big body of water (mass) to create tides. For instances, the Great Lakes have tides.

Now what creates tides on the flat earth other than the Atlantic gulf stream? And how could the Great Lakes have tides on a flat earth?

No, the Great Lakes are considered Non-Tidal. That's a fact.

https://oceanservice.noaa.gov/facts/gltides.html

Now my question still remains to be answered.

If the Moons gravity creates tides why is fresh bodies of water non-tidal? They too are under the moon and sun.

From the link you provided: "True tides—changes in water level caused by the gravitational forces of the sun and moon—do occur in a semi-diurnal (twice daily) pattern on the Great Lakes."

What causes tides across the flat earth? Weird that you keep dodging the question.

And it continues to say ---> Studies indicate that the Great Lakes spring tide, the largest tides caused by the combined forces of the sun and moon, is less than five centimeters in height. These minor variations are masked by the greater fluctuations in lake levels produced by wind and barometric pressure changes. Consequently, the Great Lakes are considered to be non-tidal.

My questions still remains to be answered.
« Last Edit: July 23, 2019, 06:47:24 PM by Plat Terra »
The Globe community is incapable of verifying Earth has the curvature calculated through experiment or claimed by anyone. They can measure a band of helium but they can’t actually measure and verify the dictated curvature of any landmass or canal. Why not?

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Plat Terra

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Re: Bay of Fundy - FE Tides
« Reply #33 on: July 23, 2019, 06:45:54 PM »
You did, kinda, not really, but whatever. The OP is why are the tides at the bay of fundy so extreme compared to the rest of the world. You answered something about the gulf stream. Is the gulf stream more powerful than anywhere else on the planet?

Bonus round: What causes tides across the flat earth?

Yes, the Gulf Stream is the fastest ocean current in the world with peak velocities near 2m/s.
If the Gulf Stream is the prime cause why does the tide rise and fall on average twice in about a day plus 50 minutes?

Quote from: Plat Terra
If the Moons gravity creates tides why is fresh bodies of water non-tidal? They too are under the moon and sun.
Larger fresh water lakes are slightly tidal.
The height of tides is caused by two comparatively small bulges sweeping around the earth into the shallower water around continents.
This makes the tidal patterns very complex around places like the British Isles and Western Australia.
I've been in Derby, Western Australia, and seen 9 metre tides then further down the coast near Carnarvon with less than 50 cm tides.
In these places tidal flows can come from two directions leading to even four tides a day in a few places.

The usual two high tides a day is not simply caused by the moon's gravitation on the near side but the very slight difference in the moon's gravitation on the side near the moon and the side away from the moon.

If the Gulf Stream is the prime cause of what?   I never said it caused tides.
The Globe community is incapable of verifying Earth has the curvature calculated through experiment or claimed by anyone. They can measure a band of helium but they can’t actually measure and verify the dictated curvature of any landmass or canal. Why not?

*

Stash

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Re: Bay of Fundy - FE Tides
« Reply #34 on: July 23, 2019, 06:59:48 PM »
So why wouldn't that affect a feather too? The surface of a ocean weighs more, right?
Haven't you heard that the downward force of gravity is proportional to the mass of the object?

A pigeon tail feather (~10 cm) long has a mass of about 0.05 g.
Only one cubic metre of seawater has a mass of about 1029 kg.

'Nuff said!


Haven't you head we are talking about a force that makes the oceans bulge, raise in height and increase earths surface curvature and sphere earth is more shaped like an egg?

Actually, the OP asked for a flat earth explanation of the tides.

And I gave an answer that applied to what was asked.

You did, kinda, not really, but whatever. The OP is why are the tides at the bay of fundy so extreme compared to the rest of the world. You answered something about the gulf stream. Is the gulf stream more powerful than anywhere else on the planet?

Bonus round: What causes tides across the flat earth?

Yes, the Gulf Stream is the fastest ocean current in the world with peak velocities near 2m/s.

If the Moons gravity creates tides why is fresh bodies of water non-tidal? They too are under the moon and sun.

From NOAA: The average speed of the Gulf Stream, however, is four miles per hour (6.4 kilometers per hour). The current slows to a speed of about one mile per hour (1.6 kilometers per hour) as it widens to the north.

You need a big body of water (mass) to create tides. For instances, the Great Lakes have tides.

Now what creates tides on the flat earth other than the Atlantic gulf stream? And how could the Great Lakes have tides on a flat earth?

No, the Great Lakes are considered Non-Tidal. That's a fact.

https://oceanservice.noaa.gov/facts/gltides.html

Now my question still remains to be answered.

If the Moons gravity creates tides why is fresh bodies of water non-tidal? They too are under the moon and sun.

From the link you provided: "True tides—changes in water level caused by the gravitational forces of the sun and moon—do occur in a semi-diurnal (twice daily) pattern on the Great Lakes."

What causes tides across the flat earth? Weird that you keep dodging the question.

And it continues to say ---> Studies indicate that the Great Lakes spring tide, the largest tides caused by the combined forces of the sun and moon, is less than five centimeters in height. These minor variations are masked by the greater fluctuations in lake levels produced by wind and barometric pressure changes. Consequently, the Great Lakes are considered to be non-tidal.

My questions still remains to be answered.What causes tides across the flat earth? Weird that you keep dodging the question.

Where did I say the great lakes have tides equivalent to the Bay of Fundy, or off of Cape Code, or wherever? Yes the natural meteorological environment outweighs the tidal forces, hence 'non-tidal'. But they are affected by tidal forces, nonetheless, as evidenced by the NOAA statement I first posted.

Answered your question. Now, why won't you answer mine? What causes tides across the flat earth? Weird that you keep dodging the question.

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NotSoSkeptical

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Re: Bay of Fundy - FE Tides
« Reply #35 on: July 23, 2019, 08:02:49 PM »
Is there an FE explanation on why the Bay of Fundy has such drastic tides compared to the rest of the world?

Considered the highest tides in the world and during low tide you can walk on the ocean floor.

The Gulf stream is pushing more water into the bay at high tide. That extra water will create more of a drag at low tide. Maybe?

That's not even a good answer as it doesn't explain low tide.  The Gulf Stream starts at the Gulf of Mexico and moves toward Florida and up the Eastern US Coast toward Newfoundland before heading to the west coast of Europe.  That's for the most part a unidirectional flow.
If "deserving" time was a factor for responding on these forums, then no one would be here posting.

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Plat Terra

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Re: Bay of Fundy - FE Tides
« Reply #36 on: July 23, 2019, 08:27:00 PM »
Is there an FE explanation on why the Bay of Fundy has such drastic tides compared to the rest of the world?

Considered the highest tides in the world and during low tide you can walk on the ocean floor.

The Gulf stream is pushing more water into the bay at high tide. That extra water will create more of a drag at low tide. Maybe?

That's not even a good answer as it doesn't explain low tide.  The Gulf Stream starts at the Gulf of Mexico and moves toward Florida and up the Eastern US Coast toward Newfoundland before heading to the west coast of Europe.  That's for the most part a unidirectional flow.


Well, you don't like my answer, but plausible. OK, what is your explanation?
The Globe community is incapable of verifying Earth has the curvature calculated through experiment or claimed by anyone. They can measure a band of helium but they can’t actually measure and verify the dictated curvature of any landmass or canal. Why not?

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NotSoSkeptical

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Re: Bay of Fundy - FE Tides
« Reply #37 on: July 23, 2019, 08:34:51 PM »
Is there an FE explanation on why the Bay of Fundy has such drastic tides compared to the rest of the world?

Considered the highest tides in the world and during low tide you can walk on the ocean floor.

The Gulf stream is pushing more water into the bay at high tide. That extra water will create more of a drag at low tide. Maybe?

That's not even a good answer as it doesn't explain low tide.  The Gulf Stream starts at the Gulf of Mexico and moves toward Florida and up the Eastern US Coast toward Newfoundland before heading to the west coast of Europe.  That's for the most part a unidirectional flow.


Well, you don't like my answer, but plausible. OK, what is your explanation?

This isn't FE Debate.  Half of a flawed answer is not an answer.

If "deserving" time was a factor for responding on these forums, then no one would be here posting.

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Plat Terra

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Re: Bay of Fundy - FE Tides
« Reply #38 on: July 23, 2019, 08:44:32 PM »
Is there an FE explanation on why the Bay of Fundy has such drastic tides compared to the rest of the world?

Considered the highest tides in the world and during low tide you can walk on the ocean floor.

The Gulf stream is pushing more water into the bay at high tide. That extra water will create more of a drag at low tide. Maybe?

That's not even a good answer as it doesn't explain low tide.  The Gulf Stream starts at the Gulf of Mexico and moves toward Florida and up the Eastern US Coast toward Newfoundland before heading to the west coast of Europe.  That's for the most part a unidirectional flow.


Well, you don't like my answer, but plausible. OK, what is your explanation?

This isn't FE Debate.  Half of a flawed answer is not an answer.
No debate, just a simple question. Is the moons gravity stronger at Bay Fundy? That would be logical if I was a Round Earther.
The Globe community is incapable of verifying Earth has the curvature calculated through experiment or claimed by anyone. They can measure a band of helium but they can’t actually measure and verify the dictated curvature of any landmass or canal. Why not?

*

NotSoSkeptical

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Re: Bay of Fundy - FE Tides
« Reply #39 on: July 23, 2019, 08:50:28 PM »
Is there an FE explanation on why the Bay of Fundy has such drastic tides compared to the rest of the world?

Considered the highest tides in the world and during low tide you can walk on the ocean floor.

The Gulf stream is pushing more water into the bay at high tide. That extra water will create more of a drag at low tide. Maybe?

That's not even a good answer as it doesn't explain low tide.  The Gulf Stream starts at the Gulf of Mexico and moves toward Florida and up the Eastern US Coast toward Newfoundland before heading to the west coast of Europe.  That's for the most part a unidirectional flow.


Well, you don't like my answer, but plausible. OK, what is your explanation?

This isn't FE Debate.  Half of a flawed answer is not an answer.
No debate, just a simple question. Is the moons gravity stronger at Bay Fundy? That would be logical if I was a Round Earther.

Simple question.  If the earth is flat and water always finds level, why are the tides so drastic to the point where the ocean floor can be walked on.
If "deserving" time was a factor for responding on these forums, then no one would be here posting.

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Plat Terra

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Re: Bay of Fundy - FE Tides
« Reply #40 on: July 23, 2019, 09:06:20 PM »
Is there an FE explanation on why the Bay of Fundy has such drastic tides compared to the rest of the world?

Considered the highest tides in the world and during low tide you can walk on the ocean floor.

The Gulf stream is pushing more water into the bay at high tide. That extra water will create more of a drag at low tide. Maybe?

That's not even a good answer as it doesn't explain low tide.  The Gulf Stream starts at the Gulf of Mexico and moves toward Florida and up the Eastern US Coast toward Newfoundland before heading to the west coast of Europe.  That's for the most part a unidirectional flow.


Well, you don't like my answer, but plausible. OK, what is your explanation?

This isn't FE Debate.  Half of a flawed answer is not an answer.
No debate, just a simple question. Is the moons gravity stronger at Bay Fundy? That would be logical if I was a Round Earther.

Simple question.  If the earth is flat and water always finds level, why are the tides so drastic to the point where the ocean floor can be walked on.

Narrow points of entry can increase velocity and if you have a gulf stream near by that would also add to such tides.
The Globe community is incapable of verifying Earth has the curvature calculated through experiment or claimed by anyone. They can measure a band of helium but they can’t actually measure and verify the dictated curvature of any landmass or canal. Why not?

*

rabinoz

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Re: Bay of Fundy - FE Tides
« Reply #41 on: July 23, 2019, 09:39:48 PM »
If the Gulf Stream is the prime cause of what?   I never said it caused tides.
So, as always you ignore almost everything and concentrate on one point.
 But you were asked "What causes tides across the flat earth?" In:
The OP is why are the tides at the bay of fundy so extreme compared to the rest of the world. You answered something about the gulf stream. Is the gulf stream more powerful than anywhere else on the planet?
Bonus round: What causes tides across the flat earth?

Yes, the Gulf Stream is the fastest ocean current in the world with peak velocities near 2m/s.
And only thing you offer is the Gulf Stream but you are wrong about that anyway:
Quote
Agulhas Current
Its velocity depends on variations in the equatorial current velocity, which in turn change with location, depth, and season. One of the fastest-flowing currents in any ocean, it reaches an estimated top speed of 5.8 miles (9.3 km) per hour off the southeast coast of South Africa.
Not that it matters. Ocean currents have little to do with tides especially considering the fact that in most tides are twice a day.

So what is the cause of tides on the flat earth including the cause of the extreme tides in places like the Bay of Fundy.

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MouseWalker

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Re: Bay of Fundy - FE Tides
« Reply #42 on: July 24, 2019, 09:53:07 PM »
To The questions of why the moons gravity does not lift feathers, feathers are not a fluid. Where the ocean water is a fluid and is easily moved.
Take into account of the masses of the Earth and Moon the center of mass Is actually below the surface of the earth, and this center of mass follows the moon.
Sow the moon does not actually lift the water off the surface.
The the universe has no obligation to makes sense to you.
The earth is a globe.

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Unconvinced

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Re: Bay of Fundy - FE Tides
« Reply #43 on: July 25, 2019, 02:47:22 AM »
Hi Plat Terra,

First off, slight confession, I never really thought too much about how tides work until recently (since joining this forum).    The problem is the common quick answer is that the moon and sun pull water towards them.  This is kind of true, but doesn’t really explain it properly. 

I’ll try to explain how it works to best of my understanding in a series of steps, mostly conceptual.  You may object to some concepts, but these are (I think) all regular “round earth” physics.

1.  Newton’s law of universal gravity is
F=(G x m1 x m2)/r2
So the closer two objects are, the stronger the gravitational force.  Forget Einstein’s theories, it gives the same results in this case, but it’s waaaay harder to visualise.

2.  An example of extreme tidal forces you’ve probably heard is the hypothetical case of an astronaut falling feet first towards into a black hole.  The feet experience much greater gravity than the head and the astronaut turns into spaghetti.  No need to discuss this anymore, except to remember that tidal forces are due to differences in gravity at different points on an object.

3.  Imagine an Earth sized blob of liquid water (somehow) floating in space far away from any gravitational fields.  Under its own gravity it’s pulled into a perfect sphere.  Think we can probably all agree to that assuming that gravity is a thing, right?

4.  Put the blob of water in orbit around a sun.  It’s still held together under it’s own gravity into a mostly spherical shape, but it’s slightly elongated by tidal forces, as the side nearest the sun experiences a bit more of the sun’s gravity than the far side.

5.  Now replace most of the water with a rocky planet that’s (mostly) able to resist tidal forces.  Say its completely submerged with no land masses.  The planet is in the center of a slightly elongated sphere of water.  That creates 2 tidal bulges in the ocean, one towards the sun and one away from the sun. 

It’s not that the water is “pulled up” towards the sun, it’s just free to flow to the shape with lowest gravitational potential energy.  ie. “Water finds it’s own level” (TM).

6.  Next add land masses.  The water cannot flow as freely around the planet, it has to work its way around the land.  So it redistributes easily across the Pacific and Atlantic Oceans, but is restricted and channeled through places like the straight of Gibraltar.

Lakes are affected by the same tidal forces as the oceans, but they are far smaller bodies of water and there’s nowhere for them to go, so we see little or no actual movement.

So that basically describes solar tides as I understand them. 

7.  Finally add the moon, which basically does the same thing as solar tides.  Except despite being much smaller, it’s way closer, so the tidal forces of the Moon on the Earth are stronger.

The conceptual problem people can have is thinking of the Moon just orbiting the Earth and the Earth just orbiting the Sun.  But really they are all being pulled towards each other (along with all the other planets and moons in the solar system). 

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Macarios

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Re: Bay of Fundy - FE Tides
« Reply #44 on: July 25, 2019, 04:03:23 AM »
Spring tides are not named by the Spring season from March to June.
They are simply higher than Neap tides when the Sun, Moon and Earth are in line.
One day you have Spring tide, week later Neap tide, one more week later Spring tide again...

This is what are Spring and Neap tides (greatly exaggerated in the gif):


(from: https://oceanservice.noaa.gov/facts/springtide.html)
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Danang

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Re: Bay of Fundy - FE Tides
« Reply #45 on: November 05, 2022, 03:24:26 PM »
Are you sure with gravity in tides? 🤔


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