The screw that pierced the globe

One more thing to add: the rotatation of the earth can actually be measured.

A famous experiment is the Focault's Pendulum.
But also e.g. with ring lasers the same is possible.

So, either the disc is also rotating, and all the "air does not move" arguments are bullshit, or we live on a globe (and the air argument still remains bs)

Quote from: mani the hero on March 23, 2017, 07:50:09 PM

Quote from: martavisgriffin on March 23, 2017, 07:20:55 PM

Quote from: mani the hero on March 23, 2017, 07:17:16 PM

Quote from: Gaia_Redonda on March 23, 2017, 06:49:20 PM

On what basis you conclude "the atmosphere moves with the Earth's rotation is 'obviously' wrong"?

The atmospher is composed by gaz(mostly O. H.N) the air could not pull object it just resist

Quote from: martavisgriffin on March 23, 2017, 06:49:06 PM

Quote from: mani the hero on March 23, 2017, 06:46:12 PM

Quote from: disputeone on March 23, 2017, 06:25:56 PM

Also, don't forget Newtons first law.

An object at rest stays at rest and an object in motion stays in motion with the same speed and in the same direction unless acted upon by an unbalanced force.

1/ the environement is not ideal cz the resistance of the air is counted and it will stop it in some point according to RET
2/ you can not throw the ball backward because it has the same speed and durection of the train

Quote from: martavisgriffin on March 23, 2017, 06:29:14 PM

Quote from: mani the hero on March 23, 2017, 05:03:28 PM

The first and the main reason that make me take the theory of flat earth seriously is that a helicopter or plane don't rise and fall in a diferent place on the earth  without moving .
(According to a rotating earth if a helicopter goes up let's say for two hours it should land very far from the place it take-off)
I didnt find a single logical explanation to that in a rotating  globe
And plz for god sake don't say that it is the galilian reference or that the atmosphere is moving with the earth because that's obviously wrong

Same reason why you can flip a coin in a moving vehicle and it lands in the same spot and doesn't get pushed to the back of the car. Or you can run in either direction in a moving airplane and not be met with any resistance.

 Yeh of course but can you throw it backward and tell us what hapend?

Noting that the coin has the same vilocity and direction of the car

What do you mean throw it backward? You can throw it anywhere in the car and it moves the same.

It seems that the example you made couldnt help you to understand the case
I ll give the one given by marta by using a toy of remoted hylicopter in a convertible moving car , rise the helycopter up verticaly . Will it follow the car  in same direction and vilocity for a long distance .
The answer of course is NO

Of course not, it will be met with resistance. I know what you're trying to get at, but you're assuming that lifting yourself off the Earth takes away your momentum. Which is obviously not true since we'd all blow away if the atmosphere was resisting us. Come on now, gotta be smarter than this. This is simple stuff.

The hylocopter i mentionned in the first is steady means has only one pushing force to keep him separated from the earth , when it take off according to RET it has the speed of earth this cinetic energy starts to decrease when taking off, until zero due to the resistance of air like what you said this will left no cinetic energy to the hylicopter except the energy that we gave to push it verticaly away of the earth.
There is no other existant force to add to keep it moves with the earth in the same speed i explain that in detailled way or you want the forces representation schemas.
And  like what you said ''excatly it's a simple stuff'' but you are making it complicated

The air isn't going to slow the helicopter down because it moves with the Earth.

Also, I'm not a helicopter pilot but I'd imagine that hovering over a single spot involves making many delicate adjustments to maintain position, if you tried to hover a helicopter while blindfolded (not recommended) you'd probably end up going off in some random direction, unless the helicopter has instruments to automatically make the necessary adjustments for you.

Somebody who knows how to fly a helicopter correct me if I'm way off base here.

I can fly an R22 basic heli, as basic as you can get and looks like a flying egg.
When you hover you are pretty much correcting, adjusting all the time by VERY small amounts. There is a delay of a few (500-1500) ms between the input you give and the feedback from the copter.

Its just the same with drones but they have electronic gyros etc so are way more stable.

Seen as 99.99% of a heli's force/power is pushing down (little/no sideways force is used during a hover) and we dont zoom off in the direction of earth's spin its a good sign we are pretty much fixed in one spot unaffected by the spin of earth.

NOTE: the small rotor at rear is purely for stability when hovering. It gets more complicated when your actually flying at a decent speed but that's a whole text book of theory, actually pretty interesting contraptions. 

Quote from: itsatorus on March 23, 2017, 07:56:20 PM

Quote from: mani the hero on March 23, 2017, 07:50:09 PM

Quote from: martavisgriffin on March 23, 2017, 07:20:55 PM

Quote from: mani the hero on March 23, 2017, 07:17:16 PM

Quote from: Gaia_Redonda on March 23, 2017, 06:49:20 PM

On what basis you conclude "the atmosphere moves with the Earth's rotation is 'obviously' wrong"?

The atmospher is composed by gaz(mostly O. H.N) the air could not pull object it just resist

Quote from: martavisgriffin on March 23, 2017, 06:49:06 PM

Quote from: mani the hero on March 23, 2017, 06:46:12 PM

Quote from: disputeone on March 23, 2017, 06:25:56 PM

Also, don't forget Newtons first law.

An object at rest stays at rest and an object in motion stays in motion with the same speed and in the same direction unless acted upon by an unbalanced force.

1/ the environement is not ideal cz the resistance of the air is counted and it will stop it in some point according to RET
2/ you can not throw the ball backward because it has the same speed and durection of the train

Quote from: martavisgriffin on March 23, 2017, 06:29:14 PM

Quote from: mani the hero on March 23, 2017, 05:03:28 PM

The first and the main reason that make me take the theory of flat earth seriously is that a helicopter or plane don't rise and fall in a diferent place on the earth  without moving .
(According to a rotating earth if a helicopter goes up let's say for two hours it should land very far from the place it take-off)
I didnt find a single logical explanation to that in a rotating  globe
And plz for god sake don't say that it is the galilian reference or that the atmosphere is moving with the earth because that's obviously wrong

Same reason why you can flip a coin in a moving vehicle and it lands in the same spot and doesn't get pushed to the back of the car. Or you can run in either direction in a moving airplane and not be met with any resistance.

 Yeh of course but can you throw it backward and tell us what hapend?

Noting that the coin has the same vilocity and direction of the car

What do you mean throw it backward? You can throw it anywhere in the car and it moves the same.

It seems that the example you made couldnt help you to understand the case
I ll give the one given by marta by using a toy of remoted hylicopter in a convertible moving car , rise the helycopter up verticaly . Will it follow the car  in same direction and vilocity for a long distance .
The answer of course is NO

Of course not, it will be met with resistance. I know what you're trying to get at, but you're assuming that lifting yourself off the Earth takes away your momentum. Which is obviously not true since we'd all blow away if the atmosphere was resisting us. Come on now, gotta be smarter than this. This is simple stuff.

The hylocopter i mentionned in the first is steady means has only one pushing force to keep him separated from the earth , when it take off according to RET it has the speed of earth this cinetic energy starts to decrease when taking off, until zero due to the resistance of air like what you said this will left no cinetic energy to the hylicopter except the energy that we gave to push it verticaly away of the earth.
There is no other existant force to add to keep it moves with the earth in the same speed i explain that in detailled way or you want the forces representation schemas.
And  like what you said ''excatly it's a simple stuff'' but you are making it complicated

The air isn't going to slow the helicopter down because it moves with the Earth.

Also, I'm not a helicopter pilot but I'd imagine that hovering over a single spot involves making many delicate adjustments to maintain position, if you tried to hover a helicopter while blindfolded (not recommended) you'd probably end up going off in some random direction, unless the helicopter has instruments to automatically make the necessary adjustments for you.

Somebody who knows how to fly a helicopter correct me if I'm way off base here.

I can fly an R22 basic heli, as basic as you can get and looks like a flying egg.
When you hover you are pretty much correcting, adjusting all the time by VERY small amounts. There is a delay of a few (500-1500) ms between the input you give and the feedback from the copter.

Its just the same with drones but they have electronic gyros etc so are way more stable.

Seen as 99.99% of a heli's force/power is pushing down (little/no sideways force is used during a hover) and we dont zoom off in the direction of earth's spin its a good sign we are pretty much fixed in one spot unaffected by the spin of earth.

NOTE: the small rotor at rear is purely for stability when hovering. It gets more complicated when your actually flying at a decent speed but that's a whole text book of theory, actually pretty interesting contraptions. 

"we are pretty much fixed in one spot unaffected by the spin of earth."

It is always amazing to me, none of us are ever affected by the spinning surface, or atmosphere of earth. It is like, it always acts and feels motionless. I don't know why, science tells us we are on a spinning speeding ball, but it just doesn't feel like it, and nothing acts like it is. But they say your chopper is whipping along to the east with the 1,000 MPH atmosphere. 

Quote from: Semnomic on March 27, 2017, 12:05:57 AM

Quote from: itsatorus on March 23, 2017, 07:56:20 PM

Quote from: mani the hero on March 23, 2017, 07:50:09 PM

Quote from: martavisgriffin on March 23, 2017, 07:20:55 PM

Quote from: mani the hero on March 23, 2017, 07:17:16 PM

Quote from: Gaia_Redonda on March 23, 2017, 06:49:20 PM

On what basis you conclude "the atmosphere moves with the Earth's rotation is 'obviously' wrong"?

The atmospher is composed by gaz(mostly O. H.N) the air could not pull object it just resist

Quote from: martavisgriffin on March 23, 2017, 06:49:06 PM

Quote from: mani the hero on March 23, 2017, 06:46:12 PM

Quote from: disputeone on March 23, 2017, 06:25:56 PM

Also, don't forget Newtons first law.

An object at rest stays at rest and an object in motion stays in motion with the same speed and in the same direction unless acted upon by an unbalanced force.

1/ the environement is not ideal cz the resistance of the air is counted and it will stop it in some point according to RET
2/ you can not throw the ball backward because it has the same speed and durection of the train

Quote from: martavisgriffin on March 23, 2017, 06:29:14 PM

Quote from: mani the hero on March 23, 2017, 05:03:28 PM

The first and the main reason that make me take the theory of flat earth seriously is that a helicopter or plane don't rise and fall in a diferent place on the earth  without moving .
(According to a rotating earth if a helicopter goes up let's say for two hours it should land very far from the place it take-off)
I didnt find a single logical explanation to that in a rotating  globe
And plz for god sake don't say that it is the galilian reference or that the atmosphere is moving with the earth because that's obviously wrong

Same reason why you can flip a coin in a moving vehicle and it lands in the same spot and doesn't get pushed to the back of the car. Or you can run in either direction in a moving airplane and not be met with any resistance.

 Yeh of course but can you throw it backward and tell us what hapend?

Noting that the coin has the same vilocity and direction of the car

What do you mean throw it backward? You can throw it anywhere in the car and it moves the same.

It seems that the example you made couldnt help you to understand the case
I ll give the one given by marta by using a toy of remoted hylicopter in a convertible moving car , rise the helycopter up verticaly . Will it follow the car  in same direction and vilocity for a long distance .
The answer of course is NO

Of course not, it will be met with resistance. I know what you're trying to get at, but you're assuming that lifting yourself off the Earth takes away your momentum. Which is obviously not true since we'd all blow away if the atmosphere was resisting us. Come on now, gotta be smarter than this. This is simple stuff.

The hylocopter i mentionned in the first is steady means has only one pushing force to keep him separated from the earth , when it take off according to RET it has the speed of earth this cinetic energy starts to decrease when taking off, until zero due to the resistance of air like what you said this will left no cinetic energy to the hylicopter except the energy that we gave to push it verticaly away of the earth.
There is no other existant force to add to keep it moves with the earth in the same speed i explain that in detailled way or you want the forces representation schemas.
And  like what you said ''excatly it's a simple stuff'' but you are making it complicated

The air isn't going to slow the helicopter down because it moves with the Earth.

Also, I'm not a helicopter pilot but I'd imagine that hovering over a single spot involves making many delicate adjustments to maintain position, if you tried to hover a helicopter while blindfolded (not recommended) you'd probably end up going off in some random direction, unless the helicopter has instruments to automatically make the necessary adjustments for you.

Somebody who knows how to fly a helicopter correct me if I'm way off base here.

I can fly an R22 basic heli, as basic as you can get and looks like a flying egg.
When you hover you are pretty much correcting, adjusting all the time by VERY small amounts. There is a delay of a few (500-1500) ms between the input you give and the feedback from the copter.

Its just the same with drones but they have electronic gyros etc so are way more stable.

Seen as 99.99% of a heli's force/power is pushing down (little/no sideways force is used during a hover) and we dont zoom off in the direction of earth's spin its a good sign we are pretty much fixed in one spot unaffected by the spin of earth.

NOTE: the small rotor at rear is purely for stability when hovering. It gets more complicated when your actually flying at a decent speed but that's a whole text book of theory, actually pretty interesting contraptions. 

"we are pretty much fixed in one spot unaffected by the spin of earth."

It is always amazing to me, none of us are ever affected by the spinning surface, or atmosphere of earth. It is like, it always acts and feels motionless. I don't know why, science tells us we are on a spinning speeding ball, but it just doesn't feel like it, and nothing acts like it is. But they say your chopper is whipping along to the east with the 1,000 MPH atmosphere.

It's amazing because you aren't very smart and live your life trying to fool yourself.

It's amazing because you aren't very smart and live your life trying to fool yourself.

i would really like to know what this person does for living.
if he is also that ignorant in his job

I don't like seeing Mani get ganged up on, however, I suppose he did it to himself with unsubstantiated claims about himself used in attempt to validate an argument. Just post up something customized with your S/N on it Mani, remove all personal information to support your claim of being a teacher. It is not hard, it is relatively quick thing to do. I am glad i took the time to do so my beginning time here, it actually helps the conversation. At least a page or more could be used towards debating your issue instead of accusations of who you are. I think it will be worth your time if you are being honest.

As for your claim the earth is not spinning, I have always had an interest in the geocentric model. However, all the reasons given here, at least explaining what you are observing, are sound and very easy to prove (we see it every day).

Perhaps you have others... I like thinking outside the box, just don't waste time on things that bear no fruit. It takes away from things that could.

Quote from: Sam Hill on March 26, 2017, 10:42:20 AM

Quote from: physical observer on March 26, 2017, 10:08:01 AM

Quote from: mani the hero on March 23, 2017, 05:03:28 PM

The first and the main reason that make me take the theory of flat earth seriously is that a helicopter or plane don't rise and fall in a diferent place on the earth  without moving .
(According to a rotating earth if a helicopter goes up let's say for two hours it should land very far from the place it take-off)
I didnt find a single logical explanation to that in a rotating  globe
And plz for god sake don't say that it is the galilian reference or that the atmosphere is moving with the earth because that's obviously wrong

Well, they claim the aircraft are being carried along with the 1,000 MPH rotating atmosphere, or some stupid explanation like that! Sorry, that is all they have.

Yep, that's all we have.  Well, that AND...

• Thousands of years of observations too numerous to list here (many of which YOU could perform, at home, your very self), AND
• Thousands of earth-orbiting satellites (many of which YOU can see, from your very own back yard), AND
• Hundreds of large telescopes (many of which YOU could go visit, in person, your very self) all using equatorial mounts, every single one of them; a system that only works because the earth is a round object rotating in a three dimensional observing space, AND
• Daily nonstop flights in both directions between South America/Australia, Australia/Africa, and Africa/South America, operated by different airlines, all of which take way less time than they should on a flat earth (flights which YOU could book and fly, your very self) AND
• A different starscape in the southern hemisphere, with an apparent rotation opposite that of the northern hemisphere starscape (which YOU could go see and photograph, your very self); none of which makes any sense under any flat earth model

Other than all of that stuff and more, yep, that's all we've got.

Yep, thousands of years of brain washing.

The claim of orbiting satellites:

http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2015/07/07/13/2A4C9E1800000578-0-image-a-3_1436271469045.jpg

If there are truly 20,000 satellites{all the dots around earth in pic}, as claimed, and the exterior of our atmosphere is littered with these tin-foil floating busses, its amazing there are not more crashes, and debris falling to earth from collided satellites. Maybe they put locus guidance systems in them?

By the way, do you think you can find any real pics of all these satellites from space? Nooooo!!!!!! Just like you can't get any pics of our earth from those deep space probes, right? Oh I look, CGI'd animations, or a pack of stars with an arrow pointing to what is claimed is earth.

View of earth from Mars:

http://laughingsquid.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/02/Earth-and-the-Moon-From-Mars.jpg?fit=800%2C800

Oh look, they left out the layer with the stars, after all, that's a lot of work figuring out where all the constellations belong at that angle/time from Mars overlooking the earth and moon. So fake!

There are pictures of satellites from Earth.
There are pictures of satellites from space.
There are lots of pictures of the Earth from space.

I can link to them if you want, but what is the point? you will just ignore them.

CGI'ing and calculating the location of stars in a picture is easy, NASA has taken photos of stars in the Apollo program. According to you Apollo is fake, so they must have faked those stars too, which hoaxers claim they couldn't.
You can even do it on a desktop computer nowdays.

"we are pretty much fixed in one spot unaffected by the spin of earth."

It is always amazing to me, none of us are ever affected by the spinning surface, or atmosphere of earth. It is like, it always acts and feels motionless. I don't know why, science tells us we are on a spinning speeding ball, but it just doesn't feel like it, and nothing acts like it is. But they say your chopper is whipping along to the east with the 1,000 MPH atmosphere.

Is that speed increasing?
How many RPM does the globe spin?

It is always amazing to me, none of us are ever affected by the spinning surface, or atmosphere of earth. It is like, it always acts and feels motionless. I don't know why, science tells us we are on a spinning speeding ball, but it just doesn't feel like it, and nothing acts like it is. But they say your chopper is whipping along to the east with the 1,000 MPH atmosphere.

As I have pointed out many times, you can't tell what it feels like. A stationary Earth would feel the same as the real one, spinning ever so slowly and moving steadily through space.

The only change that could be felt is the slight acceleration to remain in a circular path, but that is so tiny humans cannot feel it.

Everything acts like it is.

Most things also act just like you would expect for a stationary Earth, but there are several things that don't, such as geostationary satellites and large scale weather systems which only work because Earth is spinning.

If this embed works, it should explain the whole issue.

It's only a 2 minute video.

" target="_blank" rel="noopener noreferrer" class="bbc_link bbc_flash_disabled new_win">http://