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Belief or Fact?

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melonflavour

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Belief or Fact?
« on: August 05, 2006, 05:24:59 AM »
I don't believe in a flat earth. To be fair I'm just fuelling the debate cos its fun.

Here's a question. Is the flat earth idea a "belief" or is it thought to be scientific fact?

Many people here seem to think of it as an actual fact whilst many say "I believe..."

What really worries me is that a lot of people seem to be seeing this as a cult thing, and calling each other "brother"

that worries me
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James

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Re: Belief or Fact?
« Reply #1 on: August 05, 2006, 06:53:43 AM »
Quote from: "melonflavour"
I don't believe in a flat earth. To be fair I'm just fuelling the debate cos its fun.

Here's a question. Is the flat earth idea a "belief" or is it thought to be scientific fact?

Many people here seem to think of it as an actual fact whilst many say "I believe..."

What really worries me is that a lot of people seem to be seeing this as a cult thing, and calling each other "brother"

that worries me


Who calls each other "brother"? There's no cult here. Also, FET is considered science by genuine FE'ers like myself. There's no faith involved - we're just being zetetic and logical.
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"For your own sake, as well as for that of our beloved country, be bold and firm against error and evil of every kind." - David Wardlaw Scott, Terra Firma 1901
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melonflavour

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Belief or Fact?
« Reply #2 on: August 05, 2006, 07:27:03 AM »
This is a quote from the Flat Earth Believers forum, the thread "I see only one Earth, and that is a flat one" (I think thats what is called)

Posted by Bullhorn

"I really find it funny how they can still hold onto a belief of lies and deception, dont you agree brothers?"

Right there
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James

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Belief or Fact?
« Reply #3 on: August 05, 2006, 08:13:38 AM »
Ok, well there's by no means a protocol whereby we call eachother "brother", I guess bullhorn just likes to.
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"For your own sake, as well as for that of our beloved country, be bold and firm against error and evil of every kind." - David Wardlaw Scott, Terra Firma 1901
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melonflavour

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Belief or Fact?
« Reply #4 on: August 05, 2006, 08:30:55 AM »
o ok, thanks. It's quite scary for outsiders to see is all.
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Welbourne

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Belief or Fact?
« Reply #5 on: August 05, 2006, 10:57:02 AM »
Bullhorn is actually everyones biological brother.
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y the power of truth, I, a living man, have conquered the universe.
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Unregistered

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Belief or Fact?
« Reply #6 on: August 05, 2006, 11:00:13 AM »
So I suppose that everybody who calls other guys 'brother' is in some sort of cult?  I'm more worried about that theory than I am about your continued belief in a round earth.  There is a large (very very very large) population of people on this earth who refer to similar such people as 'brother' and 'sister'.  Be more afraid of them than some people who have found a place to share their beliefs with similar minded fellows from around the globe.
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melonflavour

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Belief or Fact?
« Reply #7 on: August 06, 2006, 07:08:27 AM »
alright alright alright, im only saying it seems a bit scary to outsiders possibly.

I mean think of it from this point of view. You go into a group of people who believe in something you don't, and they are so opinionated about this belief that they call each other "brother.

I apologise for being a bit cliche, but it does sound a bit sinister is all. anyway, my question has been answered now so I believe we can leave it be
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James

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Belief or Fact?
« Reply #8 on: August 06, 2006, 07:18:17 AM »
Quote from: "melonflavour"

I mean think of it from this point of view. You go into a group of people who believe in something you don't, and they are so opinionated about this belief that they call each other "brother.


There's no "they". Bullhorn is the only person who calls us "brothers".
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"For your own sake, as well as for that of our beloved country, be bold and firm against error and evil of every kind." - David Wardlaw Scott, Terra Firma 1901
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Dr. Frederick Osseldorf

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Belief or Fact?
« Reply #9 on: August 06, 2006, 07:39:16 AM »
A cult?!  BAH!  Silly sod.

Here, have some more Kool-Aid.

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ours flat-fully,

Frederick Osseldorf, PhD, DSc, DFE(Hon.)

"The earth is flat... and that's that." - Stan Freberg
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bullhorn

  • Flat Earth Scientist
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Belief or Fact?
« Reply #10 on: September 15, 2006, 11:15:39 PM »
Im not trying to offend you dont take my using of brother to seriously.
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EnCrypto

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Re: Belief or Fact?
« Reply #11 on: September 15, 2006, 11:51:35 PM »
Quote from: "Dogplatter"
Who calls each other "brother"? There's no cult here. Also, FET is considered science by genuine FE'ers like myself. There's no faith involved - we're just being zetetic and logical.

If you want to play in the science sandbox, can you tell me

A) What is the FE Scientific Method?
2) What tests can I perform to prove the FE Scientific Method?

Keep in mind that my reference to the FESM is in the sense of a method that can be applied to other theories, not just those related to proving a flat earth.
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James

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Re: Belief or Fact?
« Reply #12 on: September 16, 2006, 04:34:33 AM »
Quote from: "EnCrypto"

A) What is the FE Scientific Method?


Zeteticism.

Quote from: "EnCrypto"

2) What tests can I perform to prove the FE Scientific Method?


You can start with the some of the ones in Earth: Not a Globe, it's basically just a book of experiments - and I'm almost certain you haven't personally verified any of them yourself.
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"For your own sake, as well as for that of our beloved country, be bold and firm against error and evil of every kind." - David Wardlaw Scott, Terra Firma 1901
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mjk

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Re: Belief or Fact?
« Reply #13 on: September 17, 2006, 04:50:51 AM »
Quote from: "Dogplatter"
Quote from: "EnCrypto"

A) What is the FE Scientific Method?


Zeteticism.


Quote from: "[url=http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ism
wikipedia[/url]"]

The English suffix -ism was first used to form a noun of action from a verb, as in baptism, from baptein, a Greek word meaning "to dip". Its usage was later extended to signify systems of belief.

The -ism suffix can be used to express the following concepts

    * doctrine or philosophy (e.g. pacifism, olympism)
    * theory developed by an individual (e.g. Marxism)
    * political movement (e.g. feminism)
    * artistic movement (e.g. cubism)
    * action, process or practice (e.g. voyeurism)
    * characteristic, quality or origin (e.g. heroism)
    * state or condition (e.g. pauperism)
    * excess or disease (e.g. botulism)
    * prejudice or bias (e.g. racism)
    * characteristic speech patterns (e.g. Yogiism, Bushism)
    * religion or belief system (e.g. Mormonism)

Many isms are defined as an act or practice by some, while also being defined as the doctrine or philosophy behind the act or practice by others. Examples include activism, altruism, despotism, elitism, optimism, sexism and terrorism.



oh, and

Quote from: "melonflavour"
is the flat earth idea a "belief" or is it thought to be scientific fact?


silly billy, some thing that is "thought to be" is a "belief"
 :)
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quote="diegodraw"]you never mentioned anything about antagonizing naive idiots who have reason to believe they should defend what everyone already knows is logical....Not like anybody would ever have fun doing that, of course[/quote]
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bodanarko

Belief or Fact?
« Reply #14 on: September 17, 2006, 11:38:47 AM »
There is no logic involved in the Flat Earth "theory"
Show me a map of what the flat earth looks like.....
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beast

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Belief or Fact?
« Reply #15 on: September 17, 2006, 11:44:55 AM »
What is the logic involved in trying to convince people that the world is round?
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bodanarko

Belief or Fact?
« Reply #16 on: September 17, 2006, 11:49:28 AM »
Science supports the round earth FACT
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beast

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Belief or Fact?
« Reply #17 on: September 17, 2006, 12:05:45 PM »
You misread my question.

I'm asking what logical reason would you have for deciding to try and convince people that the Earth is round?

I'm asking for the logical reason for your actions - not the logical reasons for the commonly accepted belief or fact about the shape of the Earth.
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bullhorn

  • Flat Earth Scientist
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Belief or Fact?
« Reply #18 on: September 17, 2006, 12:15:21 PM »
Interesting question, I would like to know the answer to that as well.
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James

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Belief or Fact?
« Reply #19 on: September 17, 2006, 01:19:12 PM »
Quote from: "bodanarko"
Science supports the round earth FACT


Besides being incorrect, that statement is meaningless. You can't prove something with a self-referential argument - "The Earth is round because the Earth is round."
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"For your own sake, as well as for that of our beloved country, be bold and firm against error and evil of every kind." - David Wardlaw Scott, Terra Firma 1901
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socialaztec

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Belief or Fact?
« Reply #20 on: September 17, 2006, 01:44:46 PM »
Quote from: "Dogplatter"
Quote from: "bodanarko"
Science supports the round earth FACT


Besides being incorrect, that statement is meaningless. You can't prove something with a self-referential argument - "The Earth is round because the Earth is round."


"There is a conspiracy because the Earth is flat."
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GeoGuy

Belief or Fact?
« Reply #21 on: September 17, 2006, 02:00:56 PM »
Quote from: "socialaztec"

"There is a conspiracy because the Earth is flat."


Obviously, there must be.
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The_Earth_Does_Not_Exist

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Belief or Fact?
« Reply #22 on: September 17, 2006, 02:20:33 PM »
its true
there is a difforence between "the earth is round becasue its round" and "there is a conspericy becasu the earth is flat"

because

saying somthing is because it is doesnt work, but saying somthing is becasue somthing else is does.
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quote="DiegoDraw"]"And Moses said unto his brethren: 'The Earth is flat!...biznatches,'" [/quote]
DOT INFO
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mjk

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Belief or Fact?
« Reply #23 on: September 18, 2006, 05:04:10 AM »
Quote from: "beast"
You misread my question.

I'm asking what logical reason would you have for deciding to try and convince people that the Earth is round?

I'm asking for the logical reason for your actions - not the logical reasons for the commonly accepted belief or fact about the shape of the Earth.


because they dont see the hilarious absurdity of thier actions.
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quote="diegodraw"]you never mentioned anything about antagonizing naive idiots who have reason to believe they should defend what everyone already knows is logical....Not like anybody would ever have fun doing that, of course[/quote]
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beast

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Belief or Fact?
« Reply #24 on: September 18, 2006, 05:37:08 AM »
lol - but that would be an illogical reason for posting on the forum surely?

No.  There must  be a reason why people try so hard and are so passionate about trying to convince people that the Earth is round.  I want to know what that thought process is.
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Yardstick2006

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Re: Belief or Fact?
« Reply #25 on: September 18, 2006, 06:51:35 AM »
Quote from: "Dogplatter"


 FET  FE'ers  logical


These words do not belong in the same sentence.
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quote="Dogplatter"]
Penguins were actually created in the 1960's by Russian scientists who combined the DNA of otters and birds.  [/quote]


LOL
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Yardstick2006

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Belief or Fact?
« Reply #26 on: September 18, 2006, 06:55:42 AM »
Quote from: "bodanarko"
There is no logic involved in the Flat Earth "theory"
Show me a map of what the flat earth looks like.....


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quote="Dogplatter"]
Penguins were actually created in the 1960's by Russian scientists who combined the DNA of otters and birds.  [/quote]


LOL
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Unimportant

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Re: Belief or Fact?
« Reply #27 on: September 18, 2006, 07:02:18 AM »
Quote from: "mjk"
Quote from: "Dogplatter"
Quote from: "EnCrypto"

A) What is the FE Scientific Method?


Zeteticism.


Quote from: "[url=http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ism
wikipedia[/url]"]

The English suffix -ism was first used to form a noun of action from a verb, as in baptism, from baptein, a Greek word meaning "to dip". Its usage was later extended to signify systems of belief.

The -ism suffix can be used to express the following concepts

    * doctrine or philosophy (e.g. pacifism, olympism)
    * theory developed by an individual (e.g. Marxism)
    * political movement (e.g. feminism)
    * artistic movement (e.g. cubism)
    * action, process or practice (e.g. voyeurism)
    * characteristic, quality or origin (e.g. heroism)
    * state or condition (e.g. pauperism)
    * excess or disease (e.g. botulism)
    * prejudice or bias (e.g. racism)
    * characteristic speech patterns (e.g. Yogiism, Bushism)
    * religion or belief system (e.g. Mormonism)

Many isms are defined as an act or practice by some, while also being defined as the doctrine or philosophy behind the act or practice by others. Examples include activism, altruism, despotism, elitism, optimism, sexism and terrorism.



oh, and

Quote from: "melonflavour"
is the flat earth idea a "belief" or is it thought to be scientific fact?


silly billy, some thing that is "thought to be" is a "belief"
 :)

I guess I'll have to let my E&M professor know that Empiricism doesn't fly any more, because mjk said so.
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mjk

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Re: Belief or Fact?
« Reply #28 on: September 19, 2006, 05:28:11 AM »
Quote from: "Unimportant"
I guess I'll have to let my E&M professor know that Empiricism doesn't fly any more, because mjk said so.


whats the M in "E&M"?

some definitions of Empiricism google define came up with.

"A belief that experience alone is the source of all knowledge."

"branch of philosophy which sees all knowledge as being based in experience"

"A school of thought that proposes that all theory and knowledge should be based on observation"

science believes its methods to be correct, but i'll bet it'd be as stubborn in resisitance as any religion or FE'er if someone were to prove it wrong.

personally, i beleive scientific method and the need for empirical evidence to be sound, but it doesnt have to mean its ultimately right, that there isnt something crazy that EVERYONE is unaware of. for example that the earth is actually flat :lol:  a flat earth would throw out so much belief that was supposedly empirically backed up, it would bring empiricism into question wouldnt it?
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quote="diegodraw"]you never mentioned anything about antagonizing naive idiots who have reason to believe they should defend what everyone already knows is logical....Not like anybody would ever have fun doing that, of course[/quote]
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