My experience on a plane.....

The FE would have the same set-up, but with them eminating from the rim and going into the center.

Magnets don't work like that though.  A flat circle shaped magnet behaves like a bar magnet over its surface area.  So in other words, magnetic fields lines would be going down INTO the surface of the earth.  This makes it completely useless for navagation as the tendancy of the compass would be to point toward the sky or to point toward the ground.

You would need to create a magnetic field some other way that gives the appearance of a uniform field across the surface of the earth without tearing the earth apart.

Magnets don't work like that though.  A flat circle shaped magnet behaves like a bar magnet over its surface area.  So in other words, magnetic fields lines would be going down INTO the surface of the earth.

Unless you are visualizing a magnet that's north mag. pole is over the surface of one side and the south mag. pole is over the other side, magnets dont work like that.  And that is not how the FE's magnetic field is set up.

OK,

I appreciate the discussion that has evolved, but I'm not yet satisfied by any concrete answer.  Let's try to stay on topic:

The only answer I have gotten out of this is that I have been tricked by a change in speed and subtle turn around by the plane.

In other words, I get on the last leg in Seattle and the plane secretly turns 180, than flies without refuling at what must be faster than sound back to Japan, all across the map, EAST.

Also, keep in mind that I'm the only guy on the last leg who actually came from all the way in Japan.  The rest got on in Chicago and Seattle.  

Is this flight maneuver setup to specifically trick me, and, how does the 'tricking' schedule account for the coverups necessary in the 300+ other people on the plane, all with their respective travel schedules?


This is a simple everyday trip.  We need more than an FE theory to explain it.  Please, respond with some facts!

Why would it have to turn around?  You can circumnavigate the Flat Earth to the same or an extremely similar effect.

Unless you are visualizing a magnet that's north mag. pole is over the surface of one side and the south mag. pole is over the other side, magnets dont work like that. And that is not how the FE's magnetic field is set up.

A disk shaped magnet works like that.  One surface is north, the other side is south.  You can try to cut it into a different shape, but then you'll find you have a bar magnet.

In order to get a field of magnetism that can be used for navagation over a flat earth, you'd need a magnetic field with field lines pointing toward the ice wall.  In order to get this, we can visualize a bar magnet with it's north pole toward the ice wall.  But we have a problem.  This only covers a portion of the Earth.  If we envision a bunch of bar magnets (enough to cover the Earth's surface) that works.  But we have another problem.  At our geographic north pole, all of our magnets are trying to push each other apart.  We have another problem.  This particular arrangement will create a different magnetic field, one that will not allow the northern lights to occur.

The disk-shaped magnet I suggest will create a magnetic field that will allow the northern lights to occur.  However, it is useless for navagation.  Your suggestion will be useful for navagation, but won't allow the northern lights to occur.  A magnetic sphere will satisfy both knowns.  We know this because we can model it using field equations based on known and freely observable magnetic interactions.  Known and freely observable magnetic interactions means this: we can determine these equations ourselves (which I have done).  We can know we're not dealing with "tainted" field equations given to us by the government because we can derive this information ourselves.

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Unless you are visualizing a magnet that's north mag. pole is over the surface of one side and the south mag. pole is over the other side, magnets dont work like that. And that is not how the FE's magnetic field is set up.

A disk shaped magnet works like that.  One surface is north, the other side is south.  You can try to cut it into a different shape, but then you'll find you have a bar magnet.

In order to get a field of magnetism that can be used for navagation over a flat earth, you'd need a magnetic field with field lines pointing toward the ice wall.  In order to get this, we can visualize a bar magnet with it's north pole toward the ice wall.  But we have a problem.  This only covers a portion of the Earth.  If we envision a bunch of bar magnets (enough to cover the Earth's surface) that works.  But we have another problem.  At our geographic north pole, all of our magnets are trying to push each other apart.  We have another problem.  This particular arrangement will create a different magnetic field, one that will not allow the northern lights to occur.

The disk-shaped magnet I suggest will create a magnetic field that will allow the northern lights to occur.  However, it is useless for navagation.  Your suggestion will be useful for navagation, but won't allow the northern lights to occur.  A magnetic sphere will satisfy both knowns.  We know this because we can model it using field equations based on known and freely observable magnetic interactions.  Known and freely observable magnetic interactions means this: we can determine these equations ourselves (which I have done).  We can know we're not dealing with "tainted" field equations given to us by the government because we can derive this information ourselves.

Well said. The Danimal (a.k.a. Araltih) concurs with the above statement and wishes to send his congratulations and best regards to darkghost for a clean blow to the flat-earthers. Well done.

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Unless you are visualizing a magnet that's north mag. pole is over the surface of one side and the south mag. pole is over the other side, magnets dont work like that. And that is not how the FE's magnetic field is set up.

A disk shaped magnet works like that.  One surface is north, the other side is south.  You can try to cut it into a different shape, but then you'll find you have a bar magnet.

In order to get a field of magnetism that can be used for navagation over a flat earth, you'd need a magnetic field with field lines pointing toward the ice wall.  In order to get this, we can visualize a bar magnet with it's north pole toward the ice wall.  But we have a problem.  This only covers a portion of the Earth.  If we envision a bunch of bar magnets (enough to cover the Earth's surface) that works.  But we have another problem.  At our geographic north pole, all of our magnets are trying to push each other apart.  We have another problem.  This particular arrangement will create a different magnetic field, one that will not allow the northern lights to occur.

The disk-shaped magnet I suggest will create a magnetic field that will allow the northern lights to occur.  However, it is useless for navagation.  Your suggestion will be useful for navagation, but won't allow the northern lights to occur.  A magnetic sphere will satisfy both knowns.  We know this because we can model it using field equations based on known and freely observable magnetic interactions.  Known and freely observable magnetic interactions means this: we can determine these equations ourselves (which I have done).  We can know we're not dealing with "tainted" field equations given to us by the government because we can derive this information ourselves.

Quite nice.

Though I don't believe there could only be two magnetic field possibilities as is suggested.

Remember, magnetic fields only need certain configurations of electric currents revolving; the example of which being, well, Round Earth.  While I see no reason for this to be impossible on a Flat Earth, I realize that it would be time consuming to create a model of how FE's magnetic field equates on a Flat Earth to the magnetic field on a round Earth.  I may try my hand at some concepts, but magnetic field stuff is sticky business.  We still don't know that much about magnets.

Remember, magnetic fields only need certain configurations of electric currents revolving; the example of which being, well, Round Earth. While I see no reason for this to be impossible on a Flat Earth, I realize that it would be time consuming to create a model of how FE's magnetic field equates on a Flat Earth to the magnetic field on a round Earth. I may try my hand at some concepts, but magnetic field stuff is sticky business. We still don't know that much about magnets.

Well consider that there is only one actual observed magnetic field on Earth.  So, our field possibilities are extremely limited by that notion.  Whatever explanation we come up with, we're no doubt going to have an intense magnetic force concentrated right over the North pole.  There is no force in a spherical model, but there would be in a flat model as the fields would be always at opposition over that point.

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Unless you are visualizing a magnet that's north mag. pole is over the surface of one side and the south mag. pole is over the other side, magnets dont work like that. And that is not how the FE's magnetic field is set up.

A disk shaped magnet works like that.  One surface is north, the other side is south.  

Isn't that what I just said?  

In order to get a field of magnetism that can be used for navagation over a flat earth, you'd need a magnetic field with field lines pointing toward the ice wall.

The lines would actually point towards the north pole, just like the RE.

In order to get this, we can visualize a bar magnet with it's north pole toward the ice wall.  But we have a problem.  This only covers a portion of the Earth.  If we envision a bunch of bar magnets (enough to cover the Earth's surface) that works.  

This is Erasmus' visualization of the mag. field on the FE (I've put in my 2 cents about the actual arangement in the thread):
http://theflatearthsociety.org/forums/viewtopic.php?t=1361

 This particular arrangement will create a different magnetic field, one that will not allow the northern lights to occur.

Why?

Well consider that there is only one actual observed magnetic field on Earth.

The Earth's mag. field is just one of many mag. fields observed on earth.

That whole "the plane flies faster than the monitor in my seat tells me"-thing seems strange. I don't doubt that it's possible to fly the plane per autopilot at a certain speed and at the same time show a different speed on the passenger's monitors.
A simple test: Next time one of you flies on a route where the plane had to travel faster then it says, take out you PocketPC or whatever GPS-device you have and see how fast GPS says you're going.

You'll all agree with me when I say the personal GPS devices are not programmed to give you wrong numbers when you are flying on a certain route, the system on the plane itself seems possible, but myPocketPC lying as well just is a step too far.

You'll all agree with me when I say the personal GPS devices are not programmed to give you wrong numbers when you are flying on a certain route, the system on the plane itself seems possible, but myPocketPC lying as well just is a step too far.

There are many different FE models, but one thing they all perforce have in common is the belief that GPS data must be fake.

You'll all agree with me when I say the personal GPS devices are not programmed to give you wrong numbers when you are flying on a certain route, the system on the plane itself seems possible, but myPocketPC lying as well just is a step too far.

Using a GPS system onboard an aircraft in flight is prohibited at all times.  The use of anything that recieves or transmits a radio signal is prohibited... could that be part of the big cover up?

Quote from: "Franky Fix"

You'll all agree with me when I say the personal GPS devices are not programmed to give you wrong numbers when you are flying on a certain route, the system on the plane itself seems possible, but myPocketPC lying as well just is a step too far.

Using a GPS system onboard an aircraft in flight is prohibited at all times.  The use of anything that recieves or transmits a radio signal is prohibited... could that be part of the big cover up?

I don't see how the benefits of using a GPS device outweighs possibly interfering with air traffic control's attempt to make sure the pilot does what is necessary to maintain a safe airspace.

I know that it is prohibited.

Same with gameboys, but kids keep on using them.....

just try and see what it tells you.

How come they don't lie when you are in your car checking how fast you go (cars have/or have had mechanical speedometers)? Only when being on a plane they are supposed to give you wrong numbers? How come?

The lines would actually point towards the north pole, just like the RE.

However, the lines would be vertical over the surface of the Earth and not horizontal.  Vertical lines will not give you an accurate navagational reading.  The field lines would need to be horizontal relative to the Earth's surface to be useful as a form of navation.  That means we'd need poles at the north pole and the ice wall.

This is Erasmus' visualization of the mag. field on the FE

This was one of my suggestions in my thread.  However the magnetic field in that situation is not correctly aligned to give us the northern lights.

Why?

The magnetic field is the wrong shape.  Charged particles would be crashing into the atmosphere during the daytime, not at night.  You wouldn't ever be able to see the northern lights over the intensity of the sun.

The Earth's mag. field is just one of many mag. fields observed on earth.

There is only one "Earth's magnetic field".  There are small localized fields found on Earth produced by ferrite minerals such as barium or strontium however we don't call these the "Earth's magnetic field."

Well consider that there is only one actual observed magnetic field on Earth.  So, our field possibilities are extremely limited by that notion.  Whatever explanation we come up with, we're no doubt going to have an intense magnetic force concentrated right over the North pole.  There is no force in a spherical model, but there would be in a flat model as the fields would be always at opposition over that point.

Do you mean to say of magnetic fields in general or simply the magnetic fields of celestial bodies?

However, the lines would be vertical over the surface of the Earth and not horizontal.  

They would only be vertical near the poles.  Which is the same way as the RE.

 That means we'd need poles at the north pole and the ice wall.

About time you understand.

The magnetic field is the wrong shape.  Charged particles would be crashing into the atmosphere during the daytime, not at night.  You wouldn't ever be able to see the northern lights over the intensity of the sun.

The aurora happens during the day as well.  It just gets washed out.

There is only one "Earth's magnetic field". There are small localized fields found on Earth produced by ferrite minerals such as barium or strontium however we don't call these the "Earth's magnetic field."

You said:

Well consider that there is only one actual observed magnetic field on Earth.

There are numerous mag. fields on earth, and the Earth's field is one of them.

Do you mean to say of magnetic fields in general or simply the magnetic fields of celestial bodies?

Ah, my apologies for being obscure (and wrong) on this point.  I am talking about the magnetic field of celestial bodies.  In this discussion, we're talking about the magnetic field of Earth as a whole (the one we can use with a compass.)  The magnetic model for a flat earth must conform to the magnetic field of Earth as a body (round or flat).

They would only be vertical near the poles. Which is the same way as the RE.

However, there are horizontal lines at lower latitudes in the real Earth, and not in the situation you are describing.  All the lines would be vertical because they would be going up and away from the Earth, wrapping around the sides of the Earth, and going underneath the Earth.

About time you understand.

I've understood all along.

The aurora happens during the day as well. It just gets washed out.

That is not the point though.  The point is that given the shape of the magnetic field under the flat earth scenario as you suggest a night time aurora will not happen.  Thus, we should never see any auroras given the model you describe.

There are numerous mag. fields on earth, and the Earth's field is one of them.

Earth's field is the relevant field to this discussion.  Again, my apologies for misstating this.