Bathtub effect

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Goodfriend

Bathtub effect
« on: May 07, 2005, 08:03:51 PM »
Dear all,

It is truly amazing to what lengths some will go to reconcile observations with their Round Earth Hypothesis. Obviously the Round Earth Hypothesis implies that bathtubs drain differently in what they call the Northern and Southern Hemisphere (the so-called Coriolis effect). This bathtub effect however has NEVER been observed empirically. An apologetic website to this effect is at

http://math.ucr.edu/home/baez/physics/General/bathtub.html

Obviously, only Flat Earth Science adequately explains why bathtubs do not drain according to the faulty predictions of the Round Earth Hypohesis.

Goodfriend

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Anonymous

Bathtub effect
« Reply #1 on: May 07, 2005, 11:00:17 PM »
(I know that the Earth is round, incidentally)

The Coriolis effect doesn't exist. Well, actually it does, but its effects are so minute that they're completely unnoticeable. The way water spins depends on how you pull out the plug.

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Goodfriend

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Goodfriend
« Reply #2 on: May 08, 2005, 05:15:45 AM »
Dear Guest,

It is perhaps time that you draw the inevitable conclusion. You seem to realize that the Coriolis effect postulated by the Round Earth Hypothesis is minute. Why should you stick to the Round Earth Hypothesis when it is so obvious that the effects it predicts are absent? Respect the evidence!

Goodfriend

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Anonymous

Bathtub effect
« Reply #3 on: May 08, 2005, 01:41:18 PM »
respect the evidence?
im sorry goodfriend, but there are enourmous amounts of evidence stacked up against you, maybe you should give those arguments a fair chance.

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Anonymous

Bathtub effect
« Reply #4 on: May 08, 2005, 05:44:16 PM »
Your opinions are simply reproducing current consensus thinking about the Round Earth Hypothesis, and I want to encourage you to increase your critical thinking. If you had lived in 100AD in Rome, would you have been sacrificing to Jupiter and Mars? Had you lived in Germany in 1938, would you have subscribed to what was the consensus opinions about race at that time?

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Anonymous

Bathtub effect
« Reply #5 on: May 08, 2005, 07:09:44 PM »
yes but there are hundreds of tests and studies, as well as the experiences of people who have been in space or flown/sailed around the world, to prove my point.  not so with Jupiter & co.
you act (as in all your recent posts) that this is just a "fad" or w/e when we have tons of solid proof.
Its ocurred to me that no matter how much we exchange rhetoric, we will never agree.

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Goodfriend3

Bathtub effect
« Reply #6 on: May 08, 2005, 07:45:35 PM »
If we cannot agree, perhaps this is because the Round Earth Hypothesis is not science, but religion. About religion, one can argue and never reach consensus, because ultimately religion is a subjective belief.

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Goodfriend

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Bathtub effect
« Reply #7 on: May 09, 2005, 11:00:46 AM »
Flatman, your admitted atheism and your excessive use of profanities do not strengthen your arguments.

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flatman

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Bathtub effect
« Reply #8 on: May 09, 2005, 11:09:12 AM »
Theists choose to beleive in a god because they don't feel they have what it takes to go through life on their own. By admitting you are a theist you do not strengthen your argument, you weaken it considerably. It's like admitting that you live in a fantasy. There is no magic, there are no spirits, no unnatural beings. Not in real life. There are also no flat planets. Religions make men blind and unable to think critically and logically.

As for the profanities, they only express how stupid I think you are, and you do deserve every single one of them. They are not used to prove anything, because  thousands of people have already given proof that without the shadow of a doubt the earth is a sphere.

I'll add that before saying that other people's arguments are lacking, you should make sure that yours are non-retarded. But that's impossible, because you're saying the earth is flat. You are proving that you can't judge other arguments critically.

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commonsense

Bathtub effect
« Reply #9 on: May 09, 2005, 05:16:16 PM »
Answering with profanities isn't gonna get you anywhere, Nick :P.

At any rate, I'm afraid that you are wrong, goodfriend. The round earth theory, as you put it, isn't a religion. That's because it is supported by actual evidence. For me , religion has to have some kind of faith aspect to it. In religion, nothing can be proven.

You say that the round earth is an international hoax, made by evil evil mind.  let's just think about that for a second. Why would anyone spend so much money and ressources on such an endeavor? There is no logical motive behind it.

There are picture of the round earth and there are no picture of your 150 feet wall. Why is that? If there really are 1000's of flat earthists, wouldn't one of them want to take actual pictures of that wall?

how can you just disregard the fact that many people traveled around the world, and not only in an east-west direction? Are all the millions of people who travelled around the globe liars? If your theory was right, then it would mean that every scientist , explorer, scholar are filthy liars. I took astronomy and relativity classes and I could verify with my very own eyes the veracity of the round earth theory. Does that make me a liar too? If you think so, then there is no reason for us to discuss anymore. you will forever be trapped in your foolishness.

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Goodfriend

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Bathtub effect
« Reply #10 on: May 09, 2005, 06:19:50 PM »
Nowhere here have I mentioned or said anything about an "international hoax". I personally suspect ignorance and uncritical thinking to be the basis for much of the current consensus behind the Round Earth Hypothesis. The late Charles K. Johnson suspected what you called an "international hoax".

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flatman

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Bathtub effect
« Reply #11 on: May 09, 2005, 06:23:32 PM »
Quote
I personally suspect ignorance and uncritical thinking to be the basis for much of the current consensus behind the Round Earth

No, you just want to be different. But you chose the wrong way to do it. Being different can mean having different opinion than the masses. That's perfectly good and I support that 100%.
However, when dealing with facts, like it is the case here, you are either right or wrong. In this case, you are wrong, because nothing supports you, and you are ignoring all the facts. You have shown numerous times that you are the one who is unable to use logic and critical thinking.

You are ridiculous and quite funny. That is why I like to call you a dumbfuck. Don't take it poersonally dumbfuck, but you are really asking for it. You would still say the earth is flat even if you went to the moon and were able to see it from there.

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Anonymous

Bathtub effect
« Reply #12 on: May 09, 2005, 07:03:36 PM »
Quoted from http://math.ucr.edu/home/baez/physics/General/bathtub.html.

<b>Question:</b> Does my bathtub drain differently depending on whether I live in the northern or southern hemisphere?

<b>Answer:</b> No.  There is a real effect, but it is far too small to be relevant when you pull the plug in your bathtub.

Because the earth rotates, a fluid that flows along the earth's surface feels a "Coriolis" acceleration perpendicular to its velocity.  In the northern hemisphere, Coriolis acceleration makes low pressure storm systems spin counterclockwise; however, in the southern hemisphere, they spin clockwise because the direction of the Coriolis acceleration is reversed.  This large-scale meteorological effect leads to the speculation that the small-scale bathtub vortex that you see when you pull the plug from the drain spins one way in the northern hemisphere and the other way in the southern hemisphere.

But this effect is VERY weak for bathtub-scale fluid motions.  The order of magnitude of the Coriolis acceleration can be estimated from size of the "Rossby number" (1) (see below).  The effect of the Coriolis acceleration on your bathtub vortex is SMALL.  To detect its effect on your bathtub, you would have to get out and wait until the motion in the water is far less than one rotation per day.  This would require removing thermal currents, vibration, and any other sources of noise.  Under such conditions, never occurring in the typical home, you WOULD see an effect.  To see what trouble it takes to actually see the effect, see the reference below.  Experiments have been done in both the northern and southern hemispheres to verify that under carefully controlled conditions, bathtubs drain in opposite directions due to the Coriolis acceleration from the Earth's rotation (2).

Coriolis accelerations are significant when the Rossby number is SMALL.  So, suppose we assume a Rossby number of 0.1 and a bathtub-vortex length scale of 0.1 meter.  The Rossby number is defined as

       Rossby number = U/(2*L*w)

where U is the velocity of a fluid element, L is the scale of the fluid motion, and w is the earth's rotational velocity ( = 1 rotation/day).  In conventional units, the earth's rotation rate is about 10-4/second, so solving the above equation for the fluid velocity, we get that Coriolis acceleration in your bathtub is significant for fluid velocities of less than 2 x 10-6 meters/second.  This is a very small fluid velocity.  How small is it?

Well, we can take the analysis a step further and calculate another, more famous dimensionless parameter, the Reynolds number.

        The Reynolds number is = L*U*density/viscosity

Assuming that physicists bathe in hot water the viscosity will be about 0.005 poise and the density will be about 1.0, so the Reynolds Number is about 0.04.

Now, life at low Reynolds numbers is different from life at high Reynolds numbers.  In particular, at low Reynolds numbers, fluid physics is dominated by friction and diffusion, rather than by inertia. That is, at low Reynolds numbers the time it would take for a small piece of fluid to move a significant distance due to an acceleration, is greater than the time it takes for that piece to break up due to diffusion.

Ideas about which way a bathtub will drain have also been cited for giving the direction water circulates when you flush a toilet.  This is surely nonsense.  In this case, the water rotates in the direction in which the pipe points, that carries the water from the tank to the bowl.

References:
(1) J. Pedlosky, "Geophysical Fluid Dynamics" section 1.2.
(2) Trefethen, L.M. et al, Nature 207, 1084--5 (1965).

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Anonymous

Bathtub effect
« Reply #13 on: May 09, 2005, 07:05:14 PM »
However, this does not support a flat earth in any way.

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Anonymous

Bathtub effect
« Reply #14 on: May 20, 2005, 01:07:09 PM »

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Max Fagin

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Bathtub effect
« Reply #15 on: July 14, 2006, 10:38:11 AM »
Your right that the Coriolis effect has never been observed empirically, IN BATHTUBS.

But we observe it every year when hurican season comes around.  Due to Coriolis forces, Hurricanes turn Counter-clockwise in the northern hemisphere, and clockwise in the southern hemisphere.  Use your head!
"The earth looks flat; therefore it is flat."
-Flat Earthers

"Triangle ABC looks isosceles; therefore . . ."
-3rd grade geometry student

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Erasmus

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Bathtub effect
« Reply #16 on: July 14, 2006, 10:41:17 AM »
Quote from: "Max Fagin"
But we observe it every year when hurican season comes around.  Due to Coriolis forces, Hurricanes turn Counter-clockwise in the northern hemisphere, and clockwise in the southern hemisphere.  Use your head!


So they say.  However, I have discovered images of hurricanes from above actually indicating that there is no correlation between direction of rotation and hemisphere (sic)!
Why did the chicken cross the Möbius strip?

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CrimsonKing

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Bathtub effect
« Reply #17 on: July 14, 2006, 10:54:42 AM »
Either way, you could always use the free hanging pendulum to observe the effects

And why was this brought up from the depths of hell?
he man in black fled across the desert, and the gunslinger followed.

Advocatus Diaboli

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6strings

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Bathtub effect
« Reply #18 on: July 14, 2006, 11:02:10 AM »
Because Max Fagin lacks the concept of time?