What is under the Flat Earth?

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Life Is Easy

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Re: What is under the Flat Earth?
« Reply #30 on: January 19, 2016, 03:02:00 PM »
My point was why should we rely on  "data and experiments" that goes back thousands of years!     Hellooo it's 2016 !
Should we then reject Pythagoras' theorem? That goes back thousands of years.
um... we are talking about the shape of the earth here :)  We now have the technology to go up and see what shape it is.

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SkepticMike

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Re: What is under the Flat Earth?
« Reply #31 on: January 19, 2016, 03:09:28 PM »
My point was why should we rely on  "data and experiments" that goes back thousands of years!     Hellooo it's 2016 !
Should we then reject Pythagoras' theorem? That goes back thousands of years.
um... we are talking about the shape of the earth here :)  We now have the technology to go up and see what shape it is.

We certainly do, and we use maths that was developed over the last few thousand years to do it.
Turkish joke. A prisoner goes to the jail's library to borrow a book. The librarian says: "We don't have this book, but we have its author"

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Slemon

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Re: What is under the Flat Earth?
« Reply #32 on: January 20, 2016, 01:16:05 AM »
My point was why should we rely on  "data and experiments" that goes back thousands of years!     Hellooo it's 2016 !
Should we then reject Pythagoras' theorem? That goes back thousands of years.
um... we are talking about the shape of the earth here :)  We now have the technology to go up and see what shape it is.
So? The principle is shared. If we should reject 'data and experiments' that go back thousands of years, why reject one and not the other?
We all know deep in our hearts that Jane is the last face we'll see before we're choked to death!

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rabinoz

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Re: What is under the Flat Earth?
« Reply #33 on: January 20, 2016, 02:42:22 AM »
My point was why should we rely on  "data and experiments" that goes back thousands of years!     Hellooo it's 2016 !
Should we then reject Pythagoras' theorem? That goes back thousands of years.
um... we are talking about the shape of the earth here :)  We now have the technology to go up and see what shape it is.
My point on the "data and experiments" that goes back thousands of years was that it extends to the present and has not been seriously disputed, except by a few minority groups!
And!
Yes, we certainly do have the technology!
There are numerous satellite photos, including many showing a full hemisphere. But they, of course are all deemed fake by Flat Earthers.
Also I find the photos of Geostationary TV satellites showing streaks of the background stars and quite sharp images of the satellites quite convincing.

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Life Is Easy

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Re: What is under the Flat Earth?
« Reply #34 on: January 20, 2016, 04:00:05 PM »
My point was why should we rely on  "data and experiments" that goes back thousands of years!     Hellooo it's 2016 !
Should we then reject Pythagoras' theorem? That goes back thousands of years.
um... we are talking about the shape of the earth here :)  We now have the technology to go up and see what shape it is.
So? The principle is shared. If we should reject 'data and experiments' that go back thousands of years, why reject one and not the other?
I didn't say we should reject it. Just be skeptical about it. And who are the ones that came up with this in the first place? Was it the ancient Greeks? How did they came up with it? Through "experiments"? With what? Sticks and stones??

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Life Is Easy

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Re: What is under the Flat Earth?
« Reply #35 on: January 20, 2016, 04:09:29 PM »
My point was why should we rely on  "data and experiments" that goes back thousands of years!     Hellooo it's 2016 !
Should we then reject Pythagoras' theorem? That goes back thousands of years.
um... we are talking about the shape of the earth here :)  We now have the technology to go up and see what shape it is.
My point on the "data and experiments" that goes back thousands of years was that it extends to the present and has not been seriously disputed, except by a few minority groups!
And!
Yes, we certainly do have the technology!
There are numerous satellite photos, including many showing a full hemisphere. But they, of course are all deemed fake by Flat Earthers.
Also I find the photos of Geostationary TV satellites showing streaks of the background stars and quite sharp images of the satellites quite convincing.
Well don't you think that is the fault of NASA, with their stitched together CGI photos? And why is there no recent single photo of the "globe"? In 4K or better would be nice!

Oh and can you show me those sharp and "convincing" images from Geostationary TV satellites ?

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SkepticMike

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Re: What is under the Flat Earth?
« Reply #36 on: January 20, 2016, 09:12:25 PM »
My point was why should we rely on  "data and experiments" that goes back thousands of years!     Hellooo it's 2016 !
Should we then reject Pythagoras' theorem? That goes back thousands of years.
um... we are talking about the shape of the earth here :)  We now have the technology to go up and see what shape it is.
My point on the "data and experiments" that goes back thousands of years was that it extends to the present and has not been seriously disputed, except by a few minority groups!
And!
Yes, we certainly do have the technology!
There are numerous satellite photos, including many showing a full hemisphere. But they, of course are all deemed fake by Flat Earthers.
Also I find the photos of Geostationary TV satellites showing streaks of the background stars and quite sharp images of the satellites quite convincing.
Well don't you think that is the fault of NASA, with their stitched together CGI photos? And why is there no recent single photo of the "globe"? In 4K or better would be nice!

Oh and can you show me those sharp and "convincing" images from Geostationary TV satellites ?

Here you go, from 1 million miles out, whole earth in single frames taken around the clock.

http://epic.gsfc.nasa.gov/

Turkish joke. A prisoner goes to the jail's library to borrow a book. The librarian says: "We don't have this book, but we have its author"

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Slemon

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Re: What is under the Flat Earth?
« Reply #37 on: January 21, 2016, 03:33:11 AM »
I didn't say we should reject it. Just be skeptical about it.
There's a difference between skepticism and blind rejection.

Quote
And who are the ones that came up with this in the first place? Was it the ancient Greeks? How did they came up with it? Through "experiments"? With what? Sticks and stones??
Are you talking about Pythagoras' theorem or the Earth's shape?
We all know deep in our hearts that Jane is the last face we'll see before we're choked to death!

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Life Is Easy

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Re: What is under the Flat Earth?
« Reply #38 on: January 21, 2016, 06:02:40 AM »
My point was why should we rely on  "data and experiments" that goes back thousands of years!     Hellooo it's 2016 !
Should we then reject Pythagoras' theorem? That goes back thousands of years.
um... we are talking about the shape of the earth here :)  We now have the technology to go up and see what shape it is.
My point on the "data and experiments" that goes back thousands of years was that it extends to the present and has not been seriously disputed, except by a few minority groups!
And!
Yes, we certainly do have the technology!
There are numerous satellite photos, including many showing a full hemisphere. But they, of course are all deemed fake by Flat Earthers.
Also I find the photos of Geostationary TV satellites showing streaks of the background stars and quite sharp images of the satellites quite convincing.
Well don't you think that is the fault of NASA, with their stitched together CGI photos? And why is there no recent single photo of the "globe"? In 4K or better would be nice!

Oh and can you show me those sharp and "convincing" images from Geostationary TV satellites ?

Here you go, from 1 million miles out, whole earth in single frames taken around the clock.

http://epic.gsfc.nasa.gov/
Why does it have to be computer generated, composite photo? Where are the stars? Why is there no around the clock HD video of the whole "globe" ? 

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Life Is Easy

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Re: What is under the Flat Earth?
« Reply #39 on: January 21, 2016, 06:14:36 AM »
I didn't say we should reject it. Just be skeptical about it.
There's a difference between skepticism and blind rejection.

Quote
And who are the ones that came up with this in the first place? Was it the ancient Greeks? How did they came up with it? Through "experiments"? With what? Sticks and stones??
Are you talking about Pythagoras' theorem or the Earth's shape?
Could you leave out Pythagoras' theorem for a moment. I was obviously talking about Earths shape! How did people came up with the theory that Earth must be round? Only through observation, right?

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frenat

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Re: What is under the Flat Earth?
« Reply #40 on: January 21, 2016, 06:36:11 AM »

Here you go, from 1 million miles out, whole earth in single frames taken around the clock.

http://epic.gsfc.nasa.gov/
Why does it have to be computer generated, composite photo? Where are the stars? Why is there no around the clock HD video of the whole "globe" ?
why do you think it is composite?  As for computer generated, it is far easier to transmit a digital image than to transport film back to Earth
Why should there be stars when they are relatively dim and it is looking at a bright sunlit object (the Earth)?
Who's going to pay for the bandwidth for that video?  You?  You going to cover the cost for the extra equipment, power and monitoring?  These satellites have more to do than to transmit video to people on the internet.

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Slemon

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Re: What is under the Flat Earth?
« Reply #41 on: January 21, 2016, 06:44:07 AM »
I didn't say we should reject it. Just be skeptical about it.
There's a difference between skepticism and blind rejection.

Quote
And who are the ones that came up with this in the first place? Was it the ancient Greeks? How did they came up with it? Through "experiments"? With what? Sticks and stones??
Are you talking about Pythagoras' theorem or the Earth's shape?
Could you leave out Pythagoras' theorem for a moment. I was obviously talking about Earths shape! How did people came up with the theory that Earth must be round? Only through observation, right?
The fact is the theorem is a perfect counter-example to what you say. Ancient knowledge, ancient Greeks: view it with all the skepticism you like, it's perfectly true.

Yes, they relied on observation, and experiments. Eratosthenes measured the curvature of the Earth, and the FE explanation works for only individual cases of said experiment. Then there's the good old fashioned case of a ship going over the horizon. Why is observation an 'only?'
« Last Edit: January 21, 2016, 09:52:58 AM by Jane »
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th3rm0m3t3r0

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Re: What is under the Flat Earth?
« Reply #42 on: January 21, 2016, 09:11:58 AM »
I didn't say we should reject it. Just be skeptical about it.
There's a difference between skepticism and blind rejection.

Quote
And who are the ones that came up with this in the first place? Was it the ancient Greeks? How did they came up with it? Through "experiments"? With what? Sticks and stones??
Are you talking about Pythagoras' theorem or the Earth's shape?
Could you leave out Pythagoras' theorem for a moment. I was obviously talking about Earths shape! How did people came up with the theory that Earth must be round? Only through observation, right?
The fact is the theorem is a perfect counter-example to what you say. Ancient knowledge, ancient Greeks: view it with all the skepticism you like, it's perfectly true.

Yes, they relied on observation, and experiments. Eratosphenes measured the curvature of the Earth, and the FE explanation works for only individual cases of said experiment. Then there's the good old fashioned case of a ship going over the horizon. Why is observation an 'only?'
Who's Eratosphenes? Do you mean Eratosthenes?
Just felt like being a dick. Sorry. Had to.  ;D


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Slemon

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Re: What is under the Flat Earth?
« Reply #43 on: January 21, 2016, 09:52:32 AM »
Who's Eratosphenes? Do you mean Eratosthenes?
Just felt like being a dick. Sorry. Had to.  ;D
Yup, thanks  :P
We all know deep in our hearts that Jane is the last face we'll see before we're choked to death!

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rabinoz

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Re: What is under the Flat Earth?
« Reply #44 on: January 21, 2016, 11:00:56 PM »
We now have the technology to go up and see what shape it is.
My point on the "data and experiments" that goes back thousands of years was that it extends to the present and has not been seriously disputed, except by a few minority groups!
And!
Yes, we certainly do have the technology!
There are numerous satellite photos, including many showing a full hemisphere. But they, of course are all deemed fake by Flat Earthers.
Also I find the photos of Geostationary TV satellites showing streaks of the background stars and quite sharp images of the satellites quite convincing.
Well don't you think that is the fault of NASA, with their stitched together CGI photos? And why is there no recent single photo of the "globe"? In 4K or better would be nice!

Oh and can you show me those sharp and "convincing" images from Geostationary TV satellites ?

In the photo below the 7 sharp dots are 7 Geostationary TV Satellites that rotates with the earth, while the streaks are star images that appear to move as the earth rotates.

This is from an earlier post by Jadyyn.
This is long exposure photo of 7 geostationary satellites at an altitude of roughly 22,300miles.

(http://www.galaxyzooforum.org/index.php?topic=278575.0)

This is a photo of the Eastern Hemisphere from a Japanese Weather Satellite.
Image from: Himawari series of geostationary meteorological satellites, I am afraid it's only about 800x800 pixels
Taken at 00:00 UTC on 05 Jul 2016

Note that it is pretty dull - no "prettying up" done yet, what you see's what you get!
« Last Edit: June 26, 2019, 04:01:43 AM by rabinoz »

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Life Is Easy

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Re: What is under the Flat Earth?
« Reply #45 on: January 22, 2016, 06:06:22 PM »

Here you go, from 1 million miles out, whole earth in single frames taken around the clock.

http://epic.gsfc.nasa.gov/
Why does it have to be computer generated, composite photo? Where are the stars? Why is there no around the clock HD video of the whole "globe" ?
why do you think it is composite?  As for computer generated, it is far easier to transmit a digital image than to transport film back to Earth
Why should there be stars when they are relatively dim and it is looking at a bright sunlit object (the Earth)?
Who's going to pay for the bandwidth for that video?  You?  You going to cover the cost for the extra equipment, power and monitoring?  These satellites have more to do than to transmit video to people on the internet.
We already do! We taxpayers pay them billions but don't get much in return! NASA are conning us! We the people should take them to court. They are Smooth Criminals! Well they did do the moonwalk didn't they?  ;D Or did they? Hmmm.......

Oh and your explanation of the missing stars is not convincing.

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Life Is Easy

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Re: What is under the Flat Earth?
« Reply #46 on: January 22, 2016, 06:11:17 PM »
I didn't say we should reject it. Just be skeptical about it.
There's a difference between skepticism and blind rejection.

Quote
And who are the ones that came up with this in the first place? Was it the ancient Greeks? How did they came up with it? Through "experiments"? With what? Sticks and stones??
Are you talking about Pythagoras' theorem or the Earth's shape?
Could you leave out Pythagoras' theorem for a moment. I was obviously talking about Earths shape! How did people came up with the theory that Earth must be round? Only through observation, right?
The fact is the theorem is a perfect counter-example to what you say. Ancient knowledge, ancient Greeks: view it with all the skepticism you like, it's perfectly true.

Yes, they relied on observation, and experiments. Eratosthenes measured the curvature of the Earth, and the FE explanation works for only individual cases of said experiment. Then there's the good old fashioned case of a ship going over the horizon. Why is observation an 'only?'
Again, we are talking about the shape of the EARTH! Which can only be proven to be flat or round with technology! By going up there far enough to see the whole thing. We can never know the real shape of the Earth by observations and experiments done on the surface of the Earth, and even with the technology we have now. The ship going over the horizon is bs! It can be disproved with the right technology!

Oh and Eratosthenes whatever his name is did what?? While he was at it did he also "accurately calculated the distance from the Earth to the Sun"? He knew nothing about the size of the Earth as we are told today!

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Life Is Easy

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Re: What is under the Flat Earth?
« Reply #47 on: January 22, 2016, 06:16:37 PM »
We now have the technology to go up and see what shape it is.
My point on the "data and experiments" that goes back thousands of years was that it extends to the present and has not been seriously disputed, except by a few minority groups!
And!
Yes, we certainly do have the technology!
There are numerous satellite photos, including many showing a full hemisphere. But they, of course are all deemed fake by Flat Earthers.
Also I find the photos of Geostationary TV satellites showing streaks of the background stars and quite sharp images of the satellites quite convincing.
Well don't you think that is the fault of NASA, with their stitched together CGI photos? And why is there no recent single photo of the "globe"? In 4K or better would be nice!

Oh and can you show me those sharp and "convincing" images from Geostationary TV satellites ?
In the photo on the right the 7 sharp dots are 7 Geostationary TV Satellites that rotates with the earth, while the streaks are star images that appear to move as the earth rotates.
Sorry, I didn't see you reply till now.  This is from an earlier post by Jadyyn.
This is long exposure photo of 7 geostationary satellites at an altitude of roughly 22,300miles.

(http://www.galaxyzooforum.org/index.php?topic=278575.0)

This is a photo of the Eastern Hemisphere from a Japanese Weather Satellite.
Image from: Himawari series of geostationary meteorological satellites, I am afraid it's only about 800x800 pixels
Taken at 06:30 UTC on 22 Jan 2016
Note that it is pretty dull - no "prettying up" done yet, what you see's what you get!
First that black&white image looks like a 1970s video game similar to Ping Pong! With all the taxpayers money that NASA gets that is what they can show us? Unbelievable!!
The other (computer generated) photo is also not very convincing to me. Where are the stars? Why are part of the sides perfectly sharp? And to be honest it does look like it's taken with a fisheye lens!

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frenat

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Re: What is under the Flat Earth?
« Reply #48 on: January 22, 2016, 06:50:25 PM »

Here you go, from 1 million miles out, whole earth in single frames taken around the clock.

http://epic.gsfc.nasa.gov/
Why does it have to be computer generated, composite photo? Where are the stars? Why is there no around the clock HD video of the whole "globe" ?
why do you think it is composite?  As for computer generated, it is far easier to transmit a digital image than to transport film back to Earth
Why should there be stars when they are relatively dim and it is looking at a bright sunlit object (the Earth)?
Who's going to pay for the bandwidth for that video?  You?  You going to cover the cost for the extra equipment, power and monitoring?  These satellites have more to do than to transmit video to people on the internet.
We already do! We taxpayers pay them billions but don't get much in return! NASA are conning us! We the people should take them to court. They are Smooth Criminals! Well they did do the moonwalk didn't they?  ;D Or did they? Hmmm.......
They did.  And their budget is determined by Congress.  They don't just get a chunk of money and get to do what ever they want with it.  Every part is assigned.

Oh and your explanation of the missing stars is not convincing.
Why?  Its the right one.   Why isn't it convincing?  You don't like answers that are correct?
We know the stars are relatively dim because we can measure their brightness from Earth.  We know the atmosphere doesn't dim them much (about 15% IIRC) because we can measure the brightness of a star when directly above at zenith and then when it is lower about 30% off the horizon.  At the lower point the starlight is going through at least twice as much atmosphere but its brightness is nearly the same as when at zenith.
« Last Edit: January 23, 2016, 06:54:48 AM by frenat »

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Slemon

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Re: What is under the Flat Earth?
« Reply #49 on: January 23, 2016, 03:22:10 AM »
Again, we are talking about the shape of the EARTH! Which can only be proven to be flat or round with technology!
Why do you think that?

Quote
The ship going over the horizon is bs! It can be disproved with the right technology!
Can I expect a justification?

Quote
Oh and Eratosthenes whatever his name is did what?? While he was at it did he also "accurately calculated the distance from the Earth to the Sun"? He knew nothing about the size of the Earth as we are told today!
He made an approximation for the distance from the Earth to the Sun. And here's the thing: even if he was wrong, and the world was flat, and what he measured was the variation in the angle of the Sun's light for a close Sun, the fact is the given distance to the Sun varies when you perform the experiment at different times.
We all know deep in our hearts that Jane is the last face we'll see before we're choked to death!

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rabinoz

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Re: What is under the Flat Earth?
« Reply #50 on: January 23, 2016, 05:15:47 AM »
We now have the technology to go up and see what shape it is.
My point on the "data and experiments" that goes back thousands of years was that it extends to the present and has not been seriously disputed, except by a few minority groups!
And!
Yes, we certainly do have the technology!
There are numerous satellite photos, including many showing a full hemisphere. But they, of course are all deemed fake by Flat Earthers.
Also I find the photos of Geostationary TV satellites showing streaks of the background stars and quite sharp images of the satellites quite convincing.
Well don't you think that is the fault of NASA, with their stitched together CGI photos? And why is there no recent single photo of the "globe"? In 4K or better would be nice!

Oh and can you show me those sharp and "convincing" images from Geostationary TV satellites ?

First that black&white image looks like a 1970s video game similar to Ping Pong! With all the taxpayers money that NASA gets that is what they can show us? Unbelievable!!
The other (computer generated) photo is also not very convincing to me. Where are the stars? Why are part of the sides perfectly sharp? And to be honest it does look like it's taken with a fisheye lens!
That first photo:
Your smart alec comment: "First that black&white image looks like a 1970s video game similar to Ping Pong! With all the taxpayers money that NASA gets that is what they can show us? Unbelievable!!"  Well, you are the unbelievable.  Why on earth should NASA (or anyone else) be at your beck and call, just because you are so paranoid you doubt everything around you?

Well it IS a genuine photo and was NOT TAKEN BY NASA.
It was taken through an astronomical telescope of 7 Geostationary TV satellites, what YOU think it looks like is of no consequence to the big wide world out there!
Photos like this can be taken by amateur astronomers quite easily.
If you are interested go look it up yourself.  Jadyyn might have more patience than me - he might help.
The second photo:
You comment "Where are the stars?".  If you are the expert on photography that you claim then you would not need telling that the exposure is for daylight conditions, so will be too short for any stars to show.
Also, if someone was trying to fake this don't you think that they would be smart enough to add stars if they should be seen?

Then "Why are part of the sides perfectly sharp?"  You really can't work that out?  The fuzzy curved part to the right (on the original, left in this one) is the boundary between day to the west (left) and night to the east (right).  The sharp boundary around the rest is simply the outline of the Globe. 
Before you ask, from a lower altitude (say with your magic fisheye lens) the atmosphere would show as a fuzzy boundary.  The effective depth of the asmoephere is only about 5 miles, and the satellite is about 26,250 miles away from that, so the depth of the atmosphere is only a fraction of a pixel, making the outline of the earth quite sharp.

These images are generated "real time" (on each half hour) and anyone can download them.  And it was NOT generated with a fish-eye lens.  If you are such an expert on these matters you would recognise that immediately!
A fish-eye lens could not take a picture of (almost) the whole eastern hemisphere from (almost) the South Pole to (almost) the North Pole.  If you happen to live in the region covered by the photo you would find that the cloud cover does match the local cloud.  And no, I cannot PROVE that it is correct cloud pattern for the WHOLE hemisphere!

You can download these from the site http://www.jma.go.jp/en/gms/.  The default is an infra-red photo, in false colour if required, but a visible light image can be selected in monochrome or colour.  You might note that the image is time and date stamped along the bottom.
If you wait for them to download, you can play by a "video" of the previous 24 hours.  Since it is a geostationary satellite the image of the earth will remain fixed.

On the right is the download from a short time ago, it was about 10:40 pm here so dark over Australia.

There are literally thousands of amateur astronomers, many of whom take a particular interest in tracking and photographing satellites.  I simply can't understand how you can think that ALL these people are lying!  The altitudes of the satellites can be determined by angle measurement and triangulation and can be shown to agree with the geostationary altitude.  Jadyyn has done it in one post, but no-one cares.  To flat earth supporters these are "Just little lights in the sky, they mean nothing".  That attitude bewilders me.


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Kristaok

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Re: What is under the Flat Earth?
« Reply #51 on: January 25, 2016, 10:58:23 PM »
 I don't know, but I honestly believe hell is underneath.