Question: How exactly do eclipses work with a flat earth?

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mikeman7918

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Re: Question: How exactly do eclipses work with a flat earth?
« Reply #60 on: January 11, 2015, 08:53:49 AM »
I just noticed that how an eclipse looks from different places can be used to determine the distances of the Moon and the Sun.
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markjo

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Re: Question: How exactly do eclipses work with a flat earth?
« Reply #61 on: January 11, 2015, 10:18:43 AM »
RET uses the Sarros Cycle, an ancient Babylonian method, to predict the Lunar Eclipse.
Tom, if the Saros cycle can predict solar and lunar eclipses quite nicely just using the geometry of the RET Earth, moon, sun system, then why add the unnecessary complexity of an otherwise unobservable "shadow" object?  That doesn't seem like a very Zetetic thing to do.  I doubt that Occam would approve either.
« Last Edit: January 11, 2015, 10:22:31 AM by markjo »
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Tom Bishop

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Re: Question: How exactly do eclipses work with a flat earth?
« Reply #62 on: January 11, 2015, 10:45:08 AM »
I just noticed that how an eclipse looks from different places can be used to determine the distances of the Moon and the Sun.

A lot of assumptions are made in the trig, namely that the equations rely on the assumption that the observers are standing at different angles on a Round Earth. If a Flat Earth is assumed, the results are much different.

See http://wiki.tfes.org/Distance_to_the_Sun for a similar explanation.

RET uses the Sarros Cycle, an ancient Babylonian method, to predict the Lunar Eclipse.
Tom, if the Saros cycle can predict solar and lunar eclipses quite nicely just using the geometry of the RET Earth, moon, sun system, then why add the unnecessary complexity of an otherwise unobservable "shadow" object?  That doesn't seem like a very Zetetic thing to do.  I doubt that Occam would approve either.

The Saros cycle doesn't use the RET Earth, Moon and Sun system. Maybe you should look into the matter a little more.

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mikeman7918

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Re: Question: How exactly do eclipses work with a flat earth?
« Reply #63 on: January 11, 2015, 11:31:44 AM »
I just noticed that how an eclipse looks from different places can be used to determine the distances of the Moon and the Sun.

A lot of assumptions are made in the trig, namely that the equations rely on the assumption that the observers are standing at different angles on a Round Earth. If a Flat Earth is assumed, the results are much different.

See http://wiki.tfes.org/Distance_to_the_Sun for a similar explanation.

RET uses the Sarros Cycle, an ancient Babylonian method, to predict the Lunar Eclipse.
Tom, if the Saros cycle can predict solar and lunar eclipses quite nicely just using the geometry of the RET Earth, moon, sun system, then why add the unnecessary complexity of an otherwise unobservable "shadow" object?  That doesn't seem like a very Zetetic thing to do.  I doubt that Occam would approve either.

The Saros cycle doesn't use the RET Earth, Moon and Sun system. Maybe you should look into the matter a little more.

Actually, on a flat Earth the data for the positions of objects in the sky changing depending on where you are would make no sense and conflict with it's self.
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Lemmiwinks

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Re: Question: How exactly do eclipses work with a flat earth?
« Reply #64 on: January 11, 2015, 11:43:32 AM »
Hard also to explain why when I'm here in California I see a completely different set of stars vs when I visit my ladies home in Perth. If the planet were flat then when I looked Perth way I'd see those stars.
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markjo

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Re: Question: How exactly do eclipses work with a flat earth?
« Reply #65 on: January 11, 2015, 03:10:32 PM »
The Saros cycle doesn't use the RET Earth, Moon and Sun system. Maybe you should look into the matter a little more.
Oh?  So you're saying that eclipses aren't caused by the relative motions of the sun, moon and earth?  Maybe you should look into Saros a little better yourself.
http://www.scielo.br/scielo.php?pid=S1806-11172009000100003&script=sci_arttext
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Tom Bishop

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Re: Question: How exactly do eclipses work with a flat earth?
« Reply #66 on: January 11, 2015, 05:07:58 PM »
The Saros cycle doesn't use the RET Earth, Moon and Sun system. Maybe you should look into the matter a little more.
Oh?  So you're saying that eclipses aren't caused by the relative motions of the sun, moon and earth?  Maybe you should look into Saros a little better yourself.
http://www.scielo.br/scielo.php?pid=S1806-11172009000100003&script=sci_arttext

The Ancient Babylonians did not believe that the earth revolved around the sun. That belief is unnecessary in the Saros Cycle. I refer you to the Lunar Eclipse Chapter of Earth Not a Globe.

http://www.sacred-texts.com/earth/za/za29.htm

Quote from: Samuel Birley Rowbotham
Those who are unacquainted with the methods of calculating eclipses and other phenomena, are prone to look upon the correctness of such calculations as powerful arguments in favour of the doctrine of the earth's rotundity and the Newtonian philosophy, generally. One of the most pitiful manifestations of ignorance of the true nature of theoretical astronomy is the ardent inquiry so often made, "How is it possible for that system to be false, which enables its professors to calculate to a second of time both solar and lunar eclipses for hundreds of years to come?" The supposition that such calculations are an essential part of the Newtonian or any other theory is entirely gratuitous, and exceedingly fallacious and misleading. Whatever theory is adopted, or if all theories are discarded, the same calculations can be made. The tables of the moon's relative positions for any fraction of time are purely practical--the result of long-continued observations, and may or may not be connected with hypothesis. The necessary data being tabulated, may be mixed up with any, even the most opposite doctrines, or kept distinct from every theory or system, just as the operator may determine.

"The considered defects of the system of Ptolemy (who lived in the second century of the Christian era), did not prevent him from calculating all the eclipses that were to happen for 600 years to come." 1

"The most ancient observations of which we are in possession, that are sufficiently accurate to be employed in astronomical calculations, are those made at Babylon about 719 years before the Christian era, of three eclipses of the moon. Ptolemy, who has transmitted them to us, employed them for determining the period of the moon's mean motion; and therefore had probably none more ancient on which he could depend. The Chaldeans, however, must have made a long series of observations before they could discover their 'Saros,' or lunar period of 6585⅓ days, or about 18 years; at which time, as they had learnt, the place of the moon, her node and apogee return nearly to the same situation with respect to the earth and the sun, and, of course, a series of nearly similar eclipses occur." 1

"Thales (B.C. 600) predicted the eclipse which terminated the war between the Medes and the Lydians. Anaxagoras (B.C. 530) predicted an eclipse which happened in the fifth year of the Peloponnesian War." 2

"Hipparchus (140 B.C.) constructed tables of the motions of the sun and moon; collected accounts of such eclipses as had been made by the Egyptians and Chaldeans, and calculated all that were to happen for 600 years to come." 3

"The precision of astronomy arises, not from theories, but from prolonged observations, and the regularity of the motions, or the ascertained uniformity of their irregularities." 4

"No particular theory is required to calculate eclipses; and the calculations may be made with equal accuracy independent of every theory." 5

"It is not difficult to form some general notion of the process of calculating eclipses. It may be readily conceived that by long-continued observations on the sun and moon, the laws of their revolution may be so well understood that the exact places which they will occupy in the heavens at any future times may be foreseen, and laid down in tables of the sun and moon's motions; that we may thus ascertain by inspecting the tables the instant when these bodies will be together in the heavens, or be in conjunction." 1

The simplest method of ascertaining any future eclipse is to take the tables which have been formed during hundreds of years of careful observation; or each observer may form his own tables by collecting a number of old almanacks one for each of the last forty years: separate the times of the eclipses in each year, and arrange them in a tabular form. On looking over the various items he will soon discover parallel cases, or "cycles" of eclipses; that is, taking the eclipses in the first year of his table, and examining those of each succeeding year, he will notice peculiarities in each year's phenomena; but on arriving to the items of the nineteenth and twentieth years, he will perceive that some of the eclipses in the earlier part of the table will have been now repeated--that is to say, the times and characters will be alike. If the time which has elapsed between these two parallel or similar eclipses be carefully noted, and called a "cycle," it will then be a very simple and easy matter to predict any future similar eclipse, because, at the end of the "cycle," such similar eclipse will be certain to occur; or, at least, because such repetitions of similar phenomena have occurred in every cycle of between eighteen and nineteen years during the last several thousand years, it may be reasonably expected that if the natural world continues to have the same general structure and character, such repetitions may be predicted for all future time. The whole process is neither more nor less--except a little more complicated--than that because an express train had been observed for many years to pass a given point at a given second--say of every eighteenth day, so at a similar moment of every cycle or eighteenth day, for a hundred or more years to. come, the same might be predicted and expected. To tell the actual day and second, it is only necessary to ascertain on what day of the week the eighteenth or "cycle day" falls.

Tables of the places of the sun and moon, of eclipses, and of kindred phenomena, have existed for thousands of years, and w ere formed independently of each other, by the Chaldean, Babylonian, Egyptian, Hindoo, Chinese, and other ancient astronomers. Modern science has had nothing to do with these; farther than rendering them a little more exact, by averaging and reducing the fractional errors which a longer period of observation has detected.
« Last Edit: January 11, 2015, 05:30:55 PM by Tom Bishop »

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markjo

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Re: Question: How exactly do eclipses work with a flat earth?
« Reply #67 on: January 11, 2015, 05:41:21 PM »
The Ancient Babylonians did not believe that the earth revolved around the sun. That belief is unnecessary in the Saros Cycle.
Correct me if I'm wrong, but didn't the Ancient Babylonians believe that the sun revolved around the earth?
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Tom Bishop

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Re: Question: How exactly do eclipses work with a flat earth?
« Reply #68 on: January 11, 2015, 05:51:11 PM »
The Ancient Babylonians did not believe that the earth revolved around the sun. That belief is unnecessary in the Saros Cycle.
Correct me if I'm wrong, but didn't the Ancient Babylonians believe that the sun revolved around the earth?

They believed that the earth was flat.

From Flat Earth: The History of an Infamous Idea
"The flat-earth belief can be traced back to some of the most ancient civilizations in history..."

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Lemmiwinks

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Re: Question: How exactly do eclipses work with a flat earth?
« Reply #69 on: January 11, 2015, 05:55:17 PM »
The Ancient Babylonians did not believe that the earth revolved around the sun. That belief is unnecessary in the Saros Cycle.
Correct me if I'm wrong, but didn't the Ancient Babylonians believe that the sun revolved around the earth?

They believed that the earth was flat.

From Flat Earth: The History of an Infamous Idea
"The flat-earth belief can be traced back to some of the most ancient civilizations in history..."

Not exactly what he asked is it Tom?
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Tom Bishop

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Re: Question: How exactly do eclipses work with a flat earth?
« Reply #70 on: January 11, 2015, 06:04:34 PM »
The Ancient Babylonians did not believe that the earth revolved around the sun. That belief is unnecessary in the Saros Cycle.
Correct me if I'm wrong, but didn't the Ancient Babylonians believe that the sun revolved around the earth?

They believed that the earth was flat.

From Flat Earth: The History of an Infamous Idea
"The flat-earth belief can be traced back to some of the most ancient civilizations in history..."

Not exactly what he asked is it Tom?

They believed that the movements of the heavens were on a horizontal plane.

http://www.sacred-texts.com/earth/boe/boe10.htm

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consequently the diurnal movements of the sun and moon were regarded as occurring in a horizontal plane.
« Last Edit: January 11, 2015, 06:16:22 PM by Tom Bishop »

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guv

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Re: Question: How exactly do eclipses work with a flat earth?
« Reply #71 on: January 11, 2015, 06:39:45 PM »
"54 dishes with 12-m diameter and 12 dishes with 7-m diameter, sensitive to wavelengths between radio and infrared."


The wavelengths between radio and infrared are called microwaves Tom.

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Tom Bishop

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Re: Question: How exactly do eclipses work with a flat earth?
« Reply #72 on: January 11, 2015, 06:50:28 PM »
"54 dishes with 12-m diameter and 12 dishes with 7-m diameter, sensitive to wavelengths between radio and infrared."


The wavelengths between radio and infrared are called microwaves Tom.

And? I would suggest looking into the matter. The ALMA claims to be able to capture millimeter and sub-millimeter wavelengths, including x-rays, radio waves, and infrared.

http://www.nrao.edu/news/ALMAbackground.pdf
« Last Edit: January 11, 2015, 06:57:42 PM by Tom Bishop »

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guv

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Re: Question: How exactly do eclipses work with a flat earth?
« Reply #73 on: January 11, 2015, 07:07:32 PM »
Have a look at this Tom. Your shadow object must be in these pics somewhere.

http://www.ipac.caltech.edu/outreach/Edu/importance.html

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markjo

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Re: Question: How exactly do eclipses work with a flat earth?
« Reply #74 on: January 11, 2015, 07:40:45 PM »
They believed that the movements of the heavens were on a horizontal plane.

http://www.sacred-texts.com/earth/boe/boe10.htm

Quote
consequently the diurnal movements of the sun and moon were regarded as occurring in a horizontal plane.
As it turns out, their understanding of the cosmos changed over the years.  At one time they believed that the earth revolved with the rest of the heavens:

In contrast, Babylonian cosmology suggested that the cosmos revolved around circularly with the heavens and the earth being equal and joined as a whole.


They were also among the first to develop a heliocentric model.
According to Bartel Leendert van der Waerden, Seleucus may have proved the heliocentric theory by determining the constants of a geometric model for the heliocentric theory and by developing methods to compute planetary positions using this model. He may have used trigonometric methods that were available in his time, as he was a contemporary of Hipparchus.
« Last Edit: January 11, 2015, 07:42:34 PM by markjo »
Science is what happens when preconception meets verification.
Quote from: Robosteve
Besides, perhaps FET is a conspiracy too.
Quote from: bullhorn
It is just the way it is, you understanding it doesn't concern me.

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Alpha2Omega

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Re: Question: How exactly do eclipses work with a flat earth?
« Reply #75 on: January 11, 2015, 08:01:18 PM »
The page on NOVAS clearly says that it is a computer model.  Are you disputing this?

The NOVAS computer model is mainly for star predictions. Since the stars are static, I don't really consider it much a feat to model where they are in the sky. A plastic sliding star chart can do that...

Not true. NOVAS is an Astrometric package (that's what the 'A' in 'NOVAS' stands for). Astrometry concerns itself with the precise location of celestial bodies. A Planisphere ("plastic sliding star chart") can give you a general idea of where in the sky to look for a particular bright star; if you think this is a substitute for real data, I can see why you believe some other of the things you claim to believe.

The stars aren't even static at the precision NOVAS is capable of operating - down in the milliarcsecond range. NOVAS uses a star catalog as input data for star positions (several good ones are available); if you want to know the precise location of a solar-system object, it uses an ephemeris as input data, but this is optional. The JPL ephemerides are commonly used for the major solar-system bodies - the NOVAS documentation tells you what you need to know to use these - but others are available as well. Even if you're not interested in solar system objects, NOVAS still needs to know where earth is relative to the Sun and solar-system barycenter, so it has a built-in ephemeris to calculate that, at slightly lower precision than the better external ephemerides. If you're looking at the NOVAS documentation, see the section about the solarsystem v.1 and solarsystem v.3 routines; which of these and which ephemeris you use determines which the solar system bodies are available. Once NOVAS has the position of a celestial object in one of the coordinate systems it can work with, and your location (otherwise the geocenter), it will tell you where it is relative to that location (in your choice of the coordinate systems it supports); it doesn't care if it's a distant galaxy, star, or solar-system object.

Quote
But in regards to the Lunar Eclipse, that is a little more complicated to predict, since it requires orbital dynamics. On NOVAS the link for the Lunar Eclipse predictions are three levels down, and that page says that the times come from the Astronomical Almanac, and also links us to another page for "more info" where we read that eclipses are predicted for 1500 to 2100, which is not something a geometric model, which can predict anything at any year, would state. The range of eclipses sounds more like some astronomer in the past computed those date ranges using the saros cycle.

Where "on NOVAS" (information pages or documentation?) is the link that leads to the Lunar Eclipse predictions pages you refer to? Since NOVAS is not concerned with eclipses per se, I was surprised to see there would be such a reference, and, since I haven't seen any that are obvious, without exhaustively following all paths down three levels, I can't find it. NOVAS could certainly be used for this purpose, but I doubt many are using it this way. I can think of one person who might, but I'm not sure he's using NOVAS.

The geometric model which "can predict anything at any year" that you refer to simply does not exist. If you are looking for precise predictions, solving the N-body problem for all reasonably-well characterized solar-system objects (including moons and many large and not-quite-so-large asteroids), all of which affect each other at least somewhat, with relativistic effects addressed as needed, is far from trivial. Even if you don't need overly precise predictions, far into the future or past, even very small errors accumulate to become significant. This is not even remotely a "charting" operation.

"Sounds more like". In other words, you're guessing. Do you have any evidence that this is the case? The NASA page says that Saros is used to catalog eclipses; they do not say they they use Saros to predict them, so please don't bring that up again.
"Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts." - Daniel Patrick Moynihan

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Alpha2Omega

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Re: Question: How exactly do eclipses work with a flat earth?
« Reply #76 on: January 11, 2015, 08:13:25 PM »
"54 dishes with 12-m diameter and 12 dishes with 7-m diameter, sensitive to wavelengths between radio and infrared."


The wavelengths between radio and infrared are called microwaves Tom.

And? I would suggest looking into the matter. The ALMA claims to be able to capture millimeter and sub-millimeter wavelengths, including x-rays, radio waves, and infrared.

http://www.nrao.edu/news/ALMAbackground.pdf
Are you referring to this paragraph?

Quote from: NRAO
Astronomers learn about objects in space by studying the energy emitted by those objects. Our Sun and the other stars throughout the Universe emit visible light. But, these objects also emit other kinds of energy, such as X-rays, infrared radiation, and radio waves. Other objects emit very little or no visible light, yet are strong sources of other wavelengths of electromagnetic radiation.
Keep reading, starting with the very next paragraph...

Quote from: NRAO
Most of the energy in the Universe is present in the millimeter portion of the spectrum. This energy comes from the cold dust and gas that fills interstellar and even intergalactic space. It also comes from distant galaxies and galaxy clusters that formed many billions of years ago at the edges of the known universe.

With ALMA, astronomers will have access to this remarkable portion of the spectrum.
Do you really believe this says they claim to "to be able to capture ... x-rays, radio waves, and infrared", or are you being disingenuous?
"Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts." - Daniel Patrick Moynihan

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guv

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Re: Question: How exactly do eclipses work with a flat earth?
« Reply #77 on: January 11, 2015, 09:09:23 PM »
This is from your own link Tom.

ALMA will be an array of 64 radio
antennas that will work together as
one telescope to study millimeter- and
submillimeter-wavelength light from
space. These wavelengths, which
crosses the critical boundary between
infrared and microwave radiation,
hold the key to understanding such
processes as planet and star formation,
the formation of early galaxies and
galaxy clusters, and the formation of
organic and other molecules in space.


My point is IR astronomers would have found your shadow object.
Your old school does IR work, Check this out.

http://www.cfa.harvard.edu/facilities/Ground-Based-Telescopes

You may have not noticed the astronomy course, I know how busy a students life can be.
Your shadow object has no zedetic proof.

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Tom Bishop

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Re: Question: How exactly do eclipses work with a flat earth?
« Reply #78 on: January 11, 2015, 09:45:42 PM »
Have a look at this Tom. Your shadow object must be in these pics somewhere.

http://www.ipac.caltech.edu/outreach/Edu/importance.html

Do you know why the sun and the moon are not seen in that image? That is because that infrared sky map was taken by stitching thousands of squares of sky together over a long period of time. Infrared telescopes don't see a large part of the sky. They are dishes which look at tiny sections of the sky, or are large deeply recessed observatory sized optical telescopes. And observatory telescopes don't "zoom out".

The expectation that we would see captured celestial bodies which are moving through the static stars in that image is, therefore, misplaced.


They believed that the movements of the heavens were on a horizontal plane.

http://www.sacred-texts.com/earth/boe/boe10.htm

Quote
consequently the diurnal movements of the sun and moon were regarded as occurring in a horizontal plane.
As it turns out, their understanding of the cosmos changed over the years.  At one time they believed that the earth revolved with the rest of the heavens:

In contrast, Babylonian cosmology suggested that the cosmos revolved around circularly with the heavens and the earth being equal and joined as a whole.


They were also among the first to develop a heliocentric model.
According to Bartel Leendert van der Waerden, Seleucus may have proved the heliocentric theory by determining the constants of a geometric model for the heliocentric theory and by developing methods to compute planetary positions using this model. He may have used trigonometric methods that were available in his time, as he was a contemporary of Hipparchus.

Seleucus lived a couple thousand years after Stonehenge was built, a monument believed to use the Saros cycle to predict the eclipses. So, I would say that your comment that cosmology changed over time is irrelevant.


The page on NOVAS clearly says that it is a computer model.  Are you disputing this?

The NOVAS computer model is mainly for star predictions. Since the stars are static, I don't really consider it much a feat to model where they are in the sky. A plastic sliding star chart can do that...

Not true. NOVAS is an Astrometric package (that's what the 'A' in 'NOVAS' stands for). Astrometry concerns itself with the precise location of celestial bodies. A Planisphere ("plastic sliding star chart") can give you a general idea of where in the sky to look for a particular bright star; if you think this is a substitute for real data, I can see why you believe some other of the things you claim to believe.

The stars aren't even static at the precision NOVAS is capable of operating - down in the milliarcsecond range. NOVAS uses a star catalog as input data for star positions (several good ones are available); if you want to know the precise location of a solar-system object, it uses an ephemeris as input data, but this is optional. The JPL ephemerides are commonly used for the major solar-system bodies - the NOVAS documentation tells you what you need to know to use these - but others are available as well. Even if you're not interested in solar system objects, NOVAS still needs to know where earth is relative to the Sun and solar-system barycenter, so it has a built-in ephemeris to calculate that, at slightly lower precision than the better external ephemerides. If you're looking at the NOVAS documentation, see the section about the solarsystem v.1 and solarsystem v.3 routines; which of these and which ephemeris you use determines which the solar system bodies are available. Once NOVAS has the position of a celestial object in one of the coordinate systems it can work with, and your location (otherwise the geocenter), it will tell you where it is relative to that location (in your choice of the coordinate systems it supports); it doesn't care if it's a distant galaxy, star, or solar-system object.

Quote
But in regards to the Lunar Eclipse, that is a little more complicated to predict, since it requires orbital dynamics. On NOVAS the link for the Lunar Eclipse predictions are three levels down, and that page says that the times come from the Astronomical Almanac, and also links us to another page for "more info" where we read that eclipses are predicted for 1500 to 2100, which is not something a geometric model, which can predict anything at any year, would state. The range of eclipses sounds more like some astronomer in the past computed those date ranges using the saros cycle.

Where "on NOVAS" (information pages or documentation?) is the link that leads to the Lunar Eclipse predictions pages you refer to? Since NOVAS is not concerned with eclipses per se, I was surprised to see there would be such a reference, and, since I haven't seen any that are obvious, without exhaustively following all paths down three levels, I can't find it. NOVAS could certainly be used for this purpose, but I doubt many are using it this way. I can think of one person who might, but I'm not sure he's using NOVAS.

The geometric model which "can predict anything at any year" that you refer to simply does not exist. If you are looking for precise predictions, solving the N-body problem for all reasonably-well characterized solar-system objects (including moons and many large and not-quite-so-large asteroids), all of which affect each other at least somewhat, with relativistic effects addressed as needed, is far from trivial. Even if you don't need overly precise predictions, far into the future or past, even very small errors accumulate to become significant. This is not even remotely a "charting" operation.

"Sounds more like". In other words, you're guessing. Do you have any evidence that this is the case? The NASA page says that Saros is used to catalog eclipses; they do not say they they use Saros to predict them, so please don't bring that up again.


I don't really care about what you read about astronomy today. Why don't you just put up or shut up?

Where are the papers showing that the predictions of any geometric model of the solar system which uses celestial mechanics has met reality?
« Last Edit: January 11, 2015, 10:03:34 PM by Tom Bishop »

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Lemmiwinks

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Re: Question: How exactly do eclipses work with a flat earth?
« Reply #79 on: January 11, 2015, 10:05:13 PM »
Where are your peer reviewed papers that show the earth is flat?
I have 13 [academic qualifications] actually. I'll leave it up to you to guess which, or simply call me a  liar. Either is fine.

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Tom Bishop

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Re: Question: How exactly do eclipses work with a flat earth?
« Reply #80 on: January 11, 2015, 10:22:30 PM »
Where are your peer reviewed papers that show the earth is flat?

Earth Not a Globe was peer reviewed by a journal called The Earth Not a Globe Review (later shortened to Earth), which ran for over 75 issues with 100-400 pages each.

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Lemmiwinks

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Re: Question: How exactly do eclipses work with a flat earth?
« Reply #81 on: January 11, 2015, 10:47:06 PM »
Where are your peer reviewed papers that show the earth is flat?

Earth Not a Globe was peer reviewed by a journal called The Earth Not a Globe Review (later shortened to Earth), which ran for over 75 issues with 100-400 pages each.

So a paper on earth not being round is reviewed by a journal that believes the earth is not round? Sounds like a rather bad conflict of interest.

I doubt if alpha produced a paper reviewed by the geometric model journal you'd accept it all.

But I digress.
I have 13 [academic qualifications] actually. I'll leave it up to you to guess which, or simply call me a  liar. Either is fine.

Quod gratis asseritur, gratis negatur

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Alpha2Omega

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Re: Question: How exactly do eclipses work with a flat earth?
« Reply #82 on: January 11, 2015, 10:48:51 PM »
I don't really care about what you read about astronomy today. Why don't you just put up or shut up?

Where are the papers showing that the predictions of any geometric model of the solar system which uses celestial mechanics has met reality?
I don't read "Astronomy Today".

I did provide a reference to a paper showing the predicted positions of solar-system bodies matched measured positions to a very high degree of accuracy, as requested. You simply dismissed it without consideration. Why should anyone bother with more?

Where are your papers showing they don't? Any instance of that would be newsworthy, and more worthy of publication than the contrary.

Why are you afraid to compare the predicted locations of solar-system objects with the sky? There's a previously-unknown comet easily visible in binoculars now and for the next couple weeks. Find some predictions and go look for it since you won't take anyone else's word that this stuff works. If you need help finding it, ask. As a favor, I'll give you a search term: "comet lovejoy" [you can include the quotes or not - you'll get pretty much the same results either way]. Most of the first handful or hits will include a "finder chart" to help you locate it. If you wait too long, of course, the opportunity will be lost, so there's always that "out" for you.
"Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts." - Daniel Patrick Moynihan

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guv

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Re: Question: How exactly do eclipses work with a flat earth?
« Reply #83 on: January 11, 2015, 10:58:03 PM »
Tom something big enough to shade would be viable with lots of IR devices. And radio telescopes don't see IR, Check this out. There is a huge gap between far IR and the shortest waves used in radio astronomy

 http://www.hardhack.org.au/book/export/html/18

I am only a dumb hippie but I know some stuff.

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Rama Set

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Re: Question: How exactly do eclipses work with a flat earth?
« Reply #84 on: January 11, 2015, 11:43:17 PM »
Where are your peer reviewed papers that show the earth is flat?

Earth Not a Globe was peer reviewed by a journal called The Earth Not a Globe Review (later shortened to Earth), which ran for over 75 issues with 100-400 pages each.

Were both parties owned by Rowbotham?
Aether is the  characteristic of action or inaction of charged  & noncharged particals.

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markjo

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Re: Question: How exactly do eclipses work with a flat earth?
« Reply #85 on: January 12, 2015, 06:31:14 AM »
Seleucus lived a couple thousand years after Stonehenge was built, a monument believed to use the Saros cycle to predict the eclipses.
Apparently the jury is still out on that one.
British astronomer Fred Hoyle suggested that the circle of 56 "Aubrey Holes" could have been used as an analog computer to track the motion of the node of the lunar orbit (56 years, or 3 saros cycles, is required to bring solar eclipses back to approximately the same locations on Earth's surface), though this idea has found little support.

So, I would say that your comment that cosmology changed over time is irrelevant.
Tom, do you honestly believe that there has been absolutely no  further development of the Saros Cycle since the Babylonians?
Science is what happens when preconception meets verification.
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Besides, perhaps FET is a conspiracy too.
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It is just the way it is, you understanding it doesn't concern me.

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JimmyTheCrab

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Re: Question: How exactly do eclipses work with a flat earth?
« Reply #86 on: January 12, 2015, 09:25:59 AM »
Where are your peer reviewed papers that show the earth is flat?

Earth Not a Globe was peer reviewed by a journal called The Earth Not a Globe Review (later shortened to Earth), which ran for over 75 issues with 100-400 pages each.

Were both parties owned by Rowbotham?
"The Earth Not a Globe Review" was a magazine published by Elizabeth Blount....after Rowbotham's death.

I don't think Tom understands peer review. ::)
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