Lets keep the story straight.

Where is your work on the Zetetic Method. I'd like to see it.

I haven't posted it here, hence "I hope to put a brief summary of my arguments up here sometime in the next two weeks". It's basically an attempt to understand what the Zetetic Method really is as described by Rowbotham, as at the moment there doesn't seem to be anything more than a vague empiricism doing the rounds. I know this will produce groans, but my previous posts on direct sensorial evidence are relevant, and were the starting point for the work in its current form. This is another point where people seem to think I'm trolling, but I think there's solid textual evidence that Rowbotham believed something similar.


I don't expect the work to be definitive, but it's a discussion I think we as FE'ers need to have, and it has to start somewhere.

Quote from: Lord Wilmore on May 12, 2011, 06:27:50 PM

I hope to put a brief summary of my arguments up here sometime in the next two weeks...

=)

@John Davis

I didn't and don't have malice towards you. But I'm not keen on you no. I kinda lost interest when all those things you said you would do to improve the site amounted to sweet FA.  

Have a look back through this thread and decide again who started what. I let you have two pops at me before I thought I don't have to take this from an inbred hick. And you have not done your best to help. You did fuck all as usual.
I suggested the FAQ was updated. I even sent suggestions. Not because I need an FAQ but because it might improve the site and draw people into new debates in the upper fora. I suggested that more people were admitted into FEB so as that might generate more debates. Gotham got in, but after that you did bugger all.
We have all been wanting software upgrades. You tried but gave up.

Fine. But I then lost interest in asking you.

Spitting in your face? I suggested you were being unfair on Crusty. You replied "Someone has to preserve our good name with fools running around here constantly destroying it.". Fairly derogatory. Then you start crying troll. As you know that usually kills a debate. Its not very fair of you to go into someone else's thread and kill it off. We don't do that to you.
I ignored it and said I really couldn't be bothered. Meaning I wasn't interested in an argument. Then you started screaming troll at me too and started saying I implied James was a troll. Having been on the end of the troll chants and knowing how it effects noobs responses, that is not something I would do to James in the public fora. What I PM an FE moderator, one would expect to remain private. If you are going to reveal a PM you may as well reveal the whole thing.

FEB is full of trolls. James, Ichi, Wilmore, Bishop etc. Everyone knows. Their cover is blown. They make stories about shrimp on the moon, or dinosaurs in boats or whatever. Its fine, they have a sense of humour. What I am trying to say is they do not post in a way any different to pongo, me, EG, gotham etc. We enjoy a good joke too.

Strip out FEB. Make it hallowed ground. Only those with a bullet proof case. And sorry but those above do not qualify.

Then create a separate group. Of the people an REr when coming to the site is likely to actually argue with. They will never get to debate with Bullhorn. So FEB seems like a bit silly.

Instead create this second teir. A league of trolls if you will. With all of those who know FET inside out and defend it on the site all the time. That way, they can safely troll away without damaging the integrity of FEB. People need true believers to want to argue. They have to believe people think the earth is flat.

But I don't deserve a place in there. Neither do many others. However, as we are the people who put forward FET's case, there should be something to let new people know we understand what FET is about. So i suggest this new group. I don't know what to call it, FE Illuminati or something. What is essentially a nice name for your FE experienced trolls, of which their are many and a new person will get a good debate from.

what looks really dumb is when someone new like New Earth comes onto the site claiming to be FE in the same post as claiming that Dolphins breathe underwater. It makes everyone look like an idiot.

I just think the site is descending into farse in the last month or so.

To which you replied

Ok, I have a big blurb I'm going to send you after I finish thinking it through tongiht.  It turns out on inspection I may agree with you more than I thought.  I'm going to spend the night thinking it over and get back to you after I consider further the best way to procede.

The reason why I kept .net open after .org came back up was due, largely, to reasons you are citing now.  However, .net has other goals in the near future I'll also discuss with you.

But then did fuck all as usual. I never got the blurb.

I'm not going to gratify you with an answer to your moon sickness pleas.

You say I push FErs out of their positions? What positions? I'm usually very supportive in the upper fora. I rarely contradict other FErs, if I disagree with how they are going about a topic I just don't post in it.

In summation, I lost all confidence in your intentions some time ago. I am then on the end of this tonight.

And by the way, I do not treat the people I like badly. But I am not going to be a soft touch for those who treat me with disdain. So suck it up Davis.

Now you can reply with another foul-mouthed tirade if you wish, but I don't think this thread does either of us justice so its your call.

@Wilmore: Yes it did go South.


EDIT: @John Davis, I have just seen you banned yourself. Ok, well hopefully we can all get along on your return.

 

I suggested the FAQ was updated. I even sent suggestions. Not because I need an FAQ but because it might improve the site and draw people into new debates in the upper fora.

To be fair, I brought this up, and that it hasn't been added is mostly my fault. However, there were some objections to some of the material at the time, and I just never got around to editing it. It's been a busy year.

I suggested that more people were admitted into FEB so as that might generate more debates. Gotham got in, but after that you did bugger all.

gotham was admitted in accordance with the newly established procedure for gaining membership, and incidently he's not the only one. However, the standards are high.

We have all been wanting software upgrades. You tried but gave up.

That really isn't John's fault or responsability.


Anyway, my guess is that when he returns from his self-imposed ban, John will probably regret this and apologise.

Anyway, my guess is that when he returns from his self-imposed ban, John will probably regret this and apologise.

Well it seems out of character for him. But he knows what I'm like.

Glad to see that Thork's estrogen levels haven't lowered since he left and came back.

And so, OP, I trust that this answers your questions!

Quote from: John Davis on May 12, 2011, 05:51:42 PM

I'll file that in my "I don't give a fuck" drawer.

 raise shit

 being a dick.

God, thats pretty fucking amazing.

some sorta bullshit

 piss on my face

 who the fuck cares.

 being a dick

This is FE Q&A. Please keep low content posts and abusive attacks in the lower fora. Preferably RM.

The reason why I kept .net open after .org came back up was due, largely, to reasons you are citing now.  However, .net has other goals in the near future I'll also discuss with you.

Thork, you may not have been here long enough to remember that John, 17Nov, levee, myself and James more or less abandoned the site in favour of .net because of nearly the same problem we have now. Which is that a handful of "devil's advocates" were spamming the fora with low-content, abusive posting. Worse, some of the grossest offenders were moderators. Actual believers took to .net for refuge. If the intention of the relatively few believers was attention getting, I can't imagine we would have abandoned Daniel's site for the virtually unknown/unrecognized .net. Frankly, I share John's frustration.
You may say what you like about James, but the fact is he has contributed a great deal to serious discussion over the years, publicly and privately. If he now spends his time letting off steam and getting a rise out of new comers discussing the civilization of dinosauria and coming up with increasingly creative answers to the same questions we've answered ad nauseum previously, I'm willing to forgive him even if I don't really condone it. Part of me wishes I had his creativity. Heaven knows I tire of answering the same insipid questions over and over again.

Quote from:  John Davis

The reason why I kept .net open after .org came back up was due, largely, to reasons you are citing now.  However, .net has other goals in the near future I'll also discuss with you.

Thork, you may not have been here long enough to remember that John, 17Nov, levee, myself and James more or less abandoned the site in favour of .net because of nearly the same problem we have now. Which is that a handful of "devil's advocates" were spamming the fora with low-content, abusive posting. Worse, some of the grossest offenders were moderators. Actual believers took to .net for refuge. If the intention of the relatively few believers was attention getting, I can't imagine we would have abandoned Daniel's site for the virtually unknown/unrecognized .net. Frankly, I share John's frustration.
You may say what you like about James, but the fact is he has contributed a great deal to serious discussion over the years, publicly and privately. If he now spends his time letting off steam and getting a rise out of new comers discussing the civilization of dinosauria and coming up with increasingly creative answers to the same questions we've answered ad nauseum previously, I'm willing to forgive him even if I don't really condone it. Part of me wishes I had his creativity. Heaven knows I tire of answering the same insipid questions over and over again.

Hi Ski,
I have no idea why anyone reading this thread would think I have it in for James. I really like James. He is one of my favourite FErs. He writes well and has interesting things to say. I really don't care whether he believes or not. I don't care if JD believes or not. I linked what I felt was an example of JD trolling. It happened to be about dinosaurs, but I have no interest in upsetting James. It was never meant to be about James so can we leave him out of this? And It doesn't matter if JD feels he fancies a little troll of his own about dangerous moonlight or dinosaurs. I agree, to be asked the same questions year after year, again and again, you are allowed a sense of humour. You don't have to be the butt of every joke. I said that very thing in my PM (which is no longer private) to JD. I certainly don't think less of Wilmore because he is "playful". If fact it humanises him and makes you want to read what he writes so you can see what he might come out with next. But my point is its not worth hammering Crusty, or me or any of the others for doing the same thing. And that is where the frustration comes from on the non-mod side. There seems to be a discrepancy in who can post what. Let me use some examples using the obvious tenuous theories.
Tom B likes his Nasa Conspiracy.
James his dinosaurs.
Ichi his dangerous moonlight.
None of which makes anyone think any less of them.
So why is Crusty on the end of "Ignore Crustinator.  He's an idiot troll trying to make this prestigious society look bad."? The guy has 6000 posts. He enjoys coming here for a fun debate. Yes, shrimp have been done to death since their debut. But its one of the theories that makes new people want to post something. So I say let it be. Many people visiting the site aren't interested in the "Dip sector" or sidereal timing. They want to quiz us on the Conspiracy or shrimp, or harmful moonlight, or intelligent dinosaurs, or bendy light. Look how many posts a subject like those generates compared with the Rowbotham threads. Troll threads generate traffic. Traffic generates new members. New members keep the site fresh and replace those who leave. Its no bad thing. Otherwise we are back to a very quiet site like .net.

To your first point I would say your current handful of perma-Devil's Advocates don't tend to make low content posts. They also tend not to be abusive. Yes, they may throw in ridiculous links for lulz. Some of what they say is way off the beaten path for FE, but if a noob arrives at the site, and makes a post, is it better his post goes unanswered by the so-called believers for several days or is never answered, or that a DA comes along and has a bit of fun with that same person?
I agree not all noobs are treated well. The DAs get tired too. You may feel PP has been abusive or difficult with you of late. But he has 6000 posts. The vast majority are interesting and high content. Lets say 1000 of those you deem inappropriate. He has still laid down 5000 that are of value to the site. No one wants the site to be dead.

This all stems from what appears on the non-mod side to be massive double standards. Its not like those you have grouped as DAs avoid all the serious threads. If there are serious FE threads, they do tend to "play the game" and answer as any of the mod team would, albeit for the 500th time.

The ultimate question is what is FES about? The problem is everyone has a different view of what that is. The answer is to find a means to allow everyone to enjoy the site and that was the reason myself and JD were exchanging PMs in the first place.

"Gravity" does not exist. The causes (and mechanism) of "gravitation" is the subject of debate among FE believers (and among RE scientists for that matter).

It says in the FAQ that tides are caused by gravity.  So for those who don't believe in gravity, how are tides caused?  This problem is not addressed in the FAQ section.

It says in the FAQ that tides are caused by gravity.  So for those who don't believe in gravity, how are tides caused?  This problem is not addressed in the FAQ section.

I can't give you a short answer on that. Let me link you to the official Flat Earth Theory (not the FAQ) on tides. Then you will be able to ask specifically about the bits that do not sit well with you.
http://www.sacred-texts.com/earth/za/za30.htm

Quote from: Crustinator on May 12, 2011, 06:00:40 PM

Quote from: John Davis on May 12, 2011, 05:51:42 PM

I'll file that in my "I don't give a fuck" drawer.

 raise shit

 being a dick.

God, thats pretty fucking amazing.

some sorta bullshit

 piss on my face

 who the fuck cares.

 being a dick

This is FE Q&A. Please keep low content posts and abusive attacks in the lower fora. Preferably RM.

   This OP was started by a troll . Low content posts are what make this place fun, such as the the above quotes. There is only so much you can say about the flat earth, then you can keep saying over and over again. Read FAQ or lurk moar..Or you can let people have some fun, and some serious discussions mixed together.
  It takes a little while after coming here, but people will see who is serious and who is not. It takes lurking, but they will see for themselves. Just like I had to and you also had to.

Quote from: Ski on May 12, 2011, 02:17:39 PM

I frankly don't much care what Crustinator says to or about me. I frequently even see the humour in the gentler mockinging from RE members.

Like wise, I could care less about Crustinators little childish antics until they cause problems.

Again, I respectfully ask that you attack our theories and not our members. Moon shrimp belief has thousands of adherents, scattered by the four winds across the five continents. Please be respectful not only to my sensitivities but also theirs.

And on the OP issue of gravity, my parents were killed by falling masonry so I am fully aware of its effects.

Quote from: John Davis on May 12, 2011, 02:32:02 PM

Quote from: Ski on May 12, 2011, 02:17:39 PM

I frankly don't much care what Crustinator says to or about me. I frequently even see the humour in the gentler mockinging from RE members.

Like wise, I could care less about Crustinators little childish antics until they cause problems.

Again, I respectfully ask that you attack our theories and not our members. Moon shrimp belief has thousands of adherents, scattered by the four winds across the five continents. Please be respectful not only to my sensitivities but also theirs.

And on the OP issue of gravity, my parents were killed by falling masonry so I am fully aware of its effects.

Who got killed?   Was it your birth parents or your adoptive parents?

Again, I respectfully ask that you attack our theories and not our members. Moon shrimp belief has thousands of adherents, scattered by the four winds across the five continents.

Do you have any evidence to support your claim that "moon shrimp belief has thousands of adherents"?

Quote from: Crustinator on May 13, 2011, 08:10:36 AM

Again, I respectfully ask that you attack our theories and not our members. Moon shrimp belief has thousands of adherents, scattered by the four winds across the five continents.

Do you have any evidence to support your claim that "moon shrimp belief has thousands of adherents"?

Ask my postman. I receive hundreds of letters of support daily. The ground surge in favour of moon shrimp is extraordinary.

Quote from: Crustinator on May 13, 2011, 08:10:36 AM

Again, I respectfully ask that you attack our theories and not our members. Moon shrimp belief has thousands of adherents, scattered by the four winds across the five continents.

Do you have any evidence to support your claim that "moon shrimp belief has thousands of adherents"?

As sentient beings, I am sure the shrimp themselves are self-aware. They would vouch for their existence in their thousands should we only be able to open communication with them.

Quote from: markjo on May 13, 2011, 11:16:18 AM

Quote from: Crustinator on May 13, 2011, 08:10:36 AM

Again, I respectfully ask that you attack our theories and not our members. Moon shrimp belief has thousands of adherents, scattered by the four winds across the five continents.

Do you have any evidence to support your claim that "moon shrimp belief has thousands of adherents"?

As sentient beings, I am sure the shrimp themselves are self-aware. They would vouch for their existence in their thousands should we only be able to open communication with them.

So a group of lifeforms that cannot be proven other than, "Some guy on the internet had a dream about them and another guy on the internet talks to them with his mind," has proof of their numbers with themselves? Good to know your ability to make sense hasn't gone away either.

Quote from: markjo on May 13, 2011, 11:16:18 AM

Quote from: Crustinator on May 13, 2011, 08:10:36 AM

Again, I respectfully ask that you attack our theories and not our members. Moon shrimp belief has thousands of adherents, scattered by the four winds across the five continents.

Do you have any evidence to support your claim that "moon shrimp belief has thousands of adherents"?

Ask my postman. I receive hundreds of letters of support daily. The ground surge in favour of moon shrimp is extraordinary.

Reading your personal mail is very serious offense that could cost your postman his job (if not some jail time) so I doubt that he will be of much help.

Quote from: Crustinator on May 13, 2011, 11:25:42 AM

Quote from: markjo on May 13, 2011, 11:16:18 AM

Quote from: Crustinator on May 13, 2011, 08:10:36 AM

Again, I respectfully ask that you attack our theories and not our members. Moon shrimp belief has thousands of adherents, scattered by the four winds across the five continents.

Do you have any evidence to support your claim that "moon shrimp belief has thousands of adherents"?

Ask my postman. I receive hundreds of letters of support daily. The ground surge in favour of moon shrimp is extraordinary.

Reading your personal mail is very serious offense that could cost your postman his job (if not some jail time) so I doubt that he will be of much help.

He will tell you how many letters of praise and adulation I receive on a daily basis from all the supporters of moon shrimp theory the world over you do not need to read my mail to do this a simple conversation is all it takes.

Quote from: markjo on May 13, 2011, 12:00:59 PM

Reading your personal mail is very serious offense that could cost your postman his job (if not some jail time) so I doubt that he will be of much help.

He will tell you how many letters of praise and adulation I receive on a daily basis from all the supporters of moon shrimp theory the world over you do not need to read my mail to do this a simple conversation is all it takes.

How would your postman know the contents of your mail?

Quote from: Crustinator on May 13, 2011, 12:06:48 PM

Quote from: markjo on May 13, 2011, 12:00:59 PM

Reading your personal mail is very serious offense that could cost your postman his job (if not some jail time) so I doubt that he will be of much help.

He will tell you how many letters of praise and adulation I receive on a daily basis from all the supporters of moon shrimp theory the world over you do not need to read my mail to do this a simple conversation is all it takes.

How would your postman know the contents of your mail?

I was a postman for 2 months one summer at university. You get very good at guessing what is in people's mail. Gas bill, bank statement, mailshot, Bingo! Birthday card.

Quote from: Part of the Problem on May 13, 2011, 12:19:10 PM

Quote from: Crustinator on May 13, 2011, 12:06:48 PM

Quote from: markjo on May 13, 2011, 12:00:59 PM

Reading your personal mail is very serious offense that could cost your postman his job (if not some jail time) so I doubt that he will be of much help.

He will tell you how many letters of praise and adulation I receive on a daily basis from all the supporters of moon shrimp theory the world over you do not need to read my mail to do this a simple conversation is all it takes.

How would your postman know the contents of your mail?

I was a postman for 2 months one summer at university. You get very good at guessing what is in people's mail. Gas bill, bank statement, mailshot, Bingo! Birthday card.

What about moon shrimp fan mail?

Quote from: Thork on May 13, 2011, 01:02:19 PM

Quote from: Part of the Problem on May 13, 2011, 12:19:10 PM

Quote from: Crustinator on May 13, 2011, 12:06:48 PM

Quote from: markjo on May 13, 2011, 12:00:59 PM

Reading your personal mail is very serious offense that could cost your postman his job (if not some jail time) so I doubt that he will be of much help.

He will tell you how many letters of praise and adulation I receive on a daily basis from all the supporters of moon shrimp theory the world over you do not need to read my mail to do this a simple conversation is all it takes.

How would your postman know the contents of your mail?

I was a postman for 2 months one summer at university. You get very good at guessing what is in people's mail. Gas bill, bank statement, mailshot, Bingo! Birthday card.

What about moon shrimp fan mail?

No, that's not likely to have any money in it.

Crustinator is a great addition to this site, doesn't matter if he is a troll a not. For the mods who suggest that we ignore him are so full of bias towards him.