Old thread with some good points -=[ RE VS FE ]=-

after my brief time here, and beyond that via lurking, and reading the faq, i've noticed some real problems with fe that people like bishop pretend don't exist. i know other people have done this too, and for re'ers it won't be much of a lesson. but this is different. first, it's my own (slightly) unique observations. second, it's table rather than faq style. third, i think it is a decent concentration of fe problems.

where possible (in most cases), i've used actual quotes and paraphrases from fe'ers. when you look at it this way, how could anyone possibly believe the fe model? it boggles the mind.

any particularly outrageous fe explanation came from actual quotes; i can't make this shit up. my own interpretations of fe theory are very conservative and unremarkable.

phenomenon	round earth	flat earth
sun	an ordinary star powered by fusion; earth and other planets orbit in a non-geocentric universe	a sphere or a disk, either way a "spotlight", 32 miles diameter, orbiting a common barycenter with moon; power for light unknown; mechanism keeping it aloft above surface of earth unknown
sunrise/set	earth rotation makes it visibly rise from and set below horizon without changing size, just as observed	sun shrinks into distance until it disappears, or some other undefined optical illusion; furthermore shrinking into distance is not consistent with observation
solar eclipse	moon passes in front of sun as predicted in advance by well-established orbital mechanics; only happens during new moon	undefined mystery object moves in front of sun; could happen during any moon phase; cannot be predicted by fe celestial mechanics
lunar eclipse	earth aligns between moon and sun as predicted in advance by orbital mechanics; only happens during full moon	undefined mystery object moves in front of moon; could happen during any moon phase; cannot be predicted by fe celestial mechanics
shape of earth	spherical, slightly oblate due to rotation, finite mass and gravity	variously flat or slightly curved; infinite plane or finite disk; finite mass, infinite mass, or massless; fe cannot agree on even the most basic, fundamental properties - even within the range of zero to infinity
shape of sun/moon/planets	spherical	can't agree on spherical or flat
other stars	similar to sun, of varying size and mass, scattered throughout the milky way in various non-random densities	tiny motes of chemical energy the size of dust grains, floating in a layer above the earth, all rotating a common barycenter in perfectly circular orbits, violating laws of physics as all motes at all radii from center make one orbit every 24 hours
other galaxies	similar to the galaxy in which we reside, the milky way; scattered throughout the known universe; formations of stars, gas, and dust; having various sizes, shapes, and aggregate masses; complies with observational evidence	tiny swirling light shows, floating in a layer above the earth, all rotating a common barycenter in perfectly circular orbits along with the dust motes of stars, violating laws of physics as all swirling light shows at all radii from center make one orbit every 24 hours
formation of earth and solar system	condensed out of gas and dust, orbits and rotations preserving original overall angular momentum	unknown, maybe god
sinking ship effect	through high magnification, the tops of sails of sailboats appear below surface of even calm water (e.g. toronto pics); due to curvature of earth, partially compensated for by terrestrial refraction	trick of perspective because the sails are white and ships are dark and disappear against water, even though actual modern sailboats are mostly white and stand out against dark sea more than white sails against a light sky
clouds lit by sun from bottom at sunset	at sunset the clouds are angled slightly away from sun due to curvature of earth, furthermore crystal-clear evidence that the sun gets "below" the level of clouds as it sets	unexplained
satellites visible to naked eye crossing the sky at certain times on clear moonless nights	there are man-made satellites in orbiting around the earth; they reflect light from the sun when it is well below observer's horizon, during a range of time between dark, and before the satellites fall behind earth's shadow; usually dim (depending on satellite) but easily visible in motion against background stars with the naked eye	satellites don't exist (contrary to easy naked-eye observation), or they are pseudolites (by current definition ground-based), or the stratellite, requireing sheer conjecture and blind, evidence-free acceptance of conspiracy theory, as the stratellite manufactururer publicly states they are not yet operationaland there is only conjecture to the contrary; either way, the mechanism for which flying psuedolites / stratellites are lit from below is undefined
north celestial pole, every object beyond solar system completes one orbit in one day	an easy-to understand artifact of earth's orbit; requires nothing extra to explain, and no magical physics that every object in the observable universe must obey	a star cluster of tiny chemical dust motes; every one of millions of objects having a perfectly circular orbit in gross defiance of odds; violation of known orbital physics[/red], farthest star completes orbit as fast as nearest, even though nothing else in observable universe behaves this way[/red]
south celestial pole	same as north, but in southern hemisphere; like the north, it's relative location in the sky is the same, at any time, any month, any place in southern hemisphere	like north, also star cluster of tiny chemical motes; location in sky unknown or undefined; different places in sky according to time of night and/or month and/or location
why do we see the same face of the moon	like every major moon in our solar system (and mercury with the sun), our moon is tidally locked with its orbited planet; like the other moons, "locked" is a slight misnomer as there is a slight wobble throughout the course of a lunar month	unexplained; bishop once tried to pass off an animated gif showing lunar libration (month-long wobble) as "this is what it looks like when it passes overhead" (in one night); explained with lies
moon phases	unlit side of the moon as we see (the shadow) from 360 degrees, one night at a time, throughout the moon's orbit of earth	moon is either self-luminous, or lit from the reflection of the sun off of various places of earth; while somehow not changing "phase" over the course of a night; all fe explanations rely on relative positions which in their model change over the course of 24 hours, not 28 days, thus unable to explain moon phase changes consistent from all locations on earth, that take a 28.x day cycle to complete
moon stays the same size as it crosses the sky	basic orbital mechanics predicts this	unexplained
rotation of hurricanes depending on hemisphere	corilois effect as result of a rotating round earth	unexplained or undefined celestial eddies influence
things experimentally weigh less high on mountains	slightly smaller effect of gravitational attraction farther from the majority of earth's mass	chemical dust motes in sky pull in other direction
shape and size of earth determined regularly by global earthquake monitoring stations, and man-made seismic experiment	delays in and directions of primary readings, as well as secondary reflections and refractions, are consistent with a round earth	undefined
nasa photos	hundreds of thousands, if no millions of photos from hundreds of missions, with not a single one demonstrating something other than a consistent picture of round earth orbital mechanics	every single one was faked, including those published in the '60s which were computer-generated or altered (presumably with "vacuum tube photoshop")
strange wanderings of planets over weeks, months, and years	round-earth orbital mechanics, of which earth is part of, worked this out hundreds of years ago, and with highly predictable precision decades ago	unexplained
seasons	easily explained with the tilt of earths axis and it's effect as the earth orbits the sun	spiraling in and back out of sun and moon around a common barycenter, via unexplained physics
tides	gravitational effect readily predictable based on location of sun and moon relative to earth, and earth's rotation	sloshing of the earth back and forth; unpredictable
midnight sun in antactic circle	same explanation as perpetual night/day in antarctic - tilt of earth's axis relative to position in orbit	doesn't exist; all photos and accounts are lies or optical illusions

Quote from: cpt_bthimes on October 31, 2007, 01:16:20 PM

after my brief time here, and beyond that via lurking, and reading the faq, i've noticed some real problems with fe that people like bishop pretend don't exist. i know other people have done this too, and for re'ers it won't be much of a lesson. but this is different. first, it's my own (slightly) unique observations. second, it's table rather than faq style. third, i think it is a decent concentration of fe problems.

where possible (in most cases), i've used actual quotes and paraphrases from fe'ers. when you look at it this way, how could anyone possibly believe the fe model? it boggles the mind.

any particularly outrageous fe explanation came from actual quotes; i can't make this shit up. my own interpretations of fe theory are very conservative and unremarkable.

phenomenon	round earth	flat earth
sun	an ordinary star powered by fusion; earth and other planets orbit in a non-geocentric universe	a sphere or a disk, either way a "spotlight", 32 miles diameter, orbiting a common barycenter with moon; power for light unknown; mechanism keeping it aloft above surface of earth unknown
sunrise/set	earth rotation makes it visibly rise from and set below horizon without changing size, just as observed	sun shrinks into distance until it disappears, or some other undefined optical illusion; furthermore shrinking into distance is not consistent with observation
solar eclipse	moon passes in front of sun as predicted in advance by well-established orbital mechanics; only happens during new moon	undefined mystery object moves in front of sun; could happen during any moon phase; cannot be predicted by fe celestial mechanics
lunar eclipse	earth aligns between moon and sun as predicted in advance by orbital mechanics; only happens during full moon	undefined mystery object moves in front of moon; could happen during any moon phase; cannot be predicted by fe celestial mechanics
shape of earth	spherical, slightly oblate due to rotation, finite mass and gravity	variously flat or slightly curved; infinite plane or finite disk; finite mass, infinite mass, or massless; fe cannot agree on even the most basic, fundamental properties - even within the range of zero to infinity
shape of sun/moon/planets	spherical	can't agree on spherical or flat
other stars	similar to sun, of varying size and mass, scattered throughout the milky way in various non-random densities	tiny motes of chemical energy the size of dust grains, floating in a layer above the earth, all rotating a common barycenter in perfectly circular orbits, violating laws of physics as all motes at all radii from center make one orbit every 24 hours
other galaxies	similar to the galaxy in which we reside, the milky way; scattered throughout the known universe; formations of stars, gas, and dust; having various sizes, shapes, and aggregate masses; complies with observational evidence	tiny swirling light shows, floating in a layer above the earth, all rotating a common barycenter in perfectly circular orbits along with the dust motes of stars, violating laws of physics as all swirling light shows at all radii from center make one orbit every 24 hours
formation of earth and solar system	condensed out of gas and dust, orbits and rotations preserving original overall angular momentum	unknown, maybe god
sinking ship effect	through high magnification, the tops of sails of sailboats appear below surface of even calm water (e.g. toronto pics); due to curvature of earth, partially compensated for by terrestrial refraction	trick of perspective because the sails are white and ships are dark and disappear against water, even though actual modern sailboats are mostly white and stand out against dark sea more than white sails against a light sky
clouds lit by sun from bottom at sunset	at sunset the clouds are angled slightly away from sun due to curvature of earth, furthermore crystal-clear evidence that the sun gets "below" the level of clouds as it sets	unexplained
satellites visible to naked eye crossing the sky at certain times on clear moonless nights	there are man-made satellites in orbiting around the earth; they reflect light from the sun when it is well below observer's horizon, during a range of time between dark, and before the satellites fall behind earth's shadow; usually dim (depending on satellite) but easily visible in motion against background stars with the naked eye	satellites don't exist (contrary to easy naked-eye observation), or they are pseudolites (by current definition ground-based), or the stratellite, requireing sheer conjecture and blind, evidence-free acceptance of conspiracy theory, as the stratellite manufactururer publicly states they are not yet operationaland there is only conjecture to the contrary; either way, the mechanism for which flying psuedolites / stratellites are lit from below is undefined
north celestial pole, every object beyond solar system completes one orbit in one day	an easy-to understand artifact of earth's orbit; requires nothing extra to explain, and no magical physics that every object in the observable universe must obey	a star cluster of tiny chemical dust motes; every one of millions of objects having a perfectly circular orbit in gross defiance of odds; violation of known orbital physics[/red], farthest star completes orbit as fast as nearest, even though nothing else in observable universe behaves this way[/red]
south celestial pole	same as north, but in southern hemisphere; like the north, it's relative location in the sky is the same, at any time, any month, any place in southern hemisphere	like north, also star cluster of tiny chemical motes; location in sky unknown or undefined; different places in sky according to time of night and/or month and/or location
why do we see the same face of the moon	like every major moon in our solar system (and mercury with the sun), our moon is tidally locked with its orbited planet; like the other moons, "locked" is a slight misnomer as there is a slight wobble throughout the course of a lunar month	unexplained; bishop once tried to pass off an animated gif showing lunar libration (month-long wobble) as "this is what it looks like when it passes overhead" (in one night); explained with lies
moon phases	unlit side of the moon as we see (the shadow) from 360 degrees, one night at a time, throughout the moon's orbit of earth	moon is either self-luminous, or lit from the reflection of the sun off of various places of earth; while somehow not changing "phase" over the course of a night; all fe explanations rely on relative positions which in their model change over the course of 24 hours, not 28 days, thus unable to explain moon phase changes consistent from all locations on earth, that take a 28.x day cycle to complete
moon stays the same size as it crosses the sky	basic orbital mechanics predicts this	unexplained
rotation of hurricanes depending on hemisphere	corilois effect as result of a rotating round earth	unexplained or undefined celestial eddies influence
things experimentally weigh less high on mountains	slightly smaller effect of gravitational attraction farther from the majority of earth's mass	chemical dust motes in sky pull in other direction
shape and size of earth determined regularly by global earthquake monitoring stations, and man-made seismic experiment	delays in and directions of primary readings, as well as secondary reflections and refractions, are consistent with a round earth	undefined
nasa photos	hundreds of thousands, if no millions of photos from hundreds of missions, with not a single one demonstrating something other than a consistent picture of round earth orbital mechanics	every single one was faked, including those published in the '60s which were computer-generated or altered (presumably with "vacuum tube photoshop")
strange wanderings of planets over weeks, months, and years	round-earth orbital mechanics, of which earth is part of, worked this out hundreds of years ago, and with highly predictable precision decades ago	unexplained
seasons	easily explained with the tilt of earths axis and it's effect as the earth orbits the sun	spiraling in and back out of sun and moon around a common barycenter, via unexplained physics
tides	gravitational effect readily predictable based on location of sun and moon relative to earth, and earth's rotation	sloshing of the earth back and forth; unpredictable
midnight sun in antactic circle	same explanation as perpetual night/day in antarctic - tilt of earth's axis relative to position in orbit	doesn't exist; all photos and accounts are lies or optical illusions

These types of threads would be more interesting if RE'ers wrote the RET side and FE'ers wrote the FET side. Also, FE'ers get to add topics that RE'ers have clearly avoided.

As it is, there is an obvious bias. 

These types of threads would be more interesting if RE'ers wrote the RET side and FE'ers wrote the FET side. Also, FE'ers get to add topics that RE'ers have clearly avoided.

As it is, there is an obvious bias. 

Hey no one is stopping you...

Quote from: narcberry on August 25, 2008, 08:36:19 PM

These types of threads would be more interesting if RE'ers wrote the RET side and FE'ers wrote the FET side. Also, FE'ers get to add topics that RE'ers have clearly avoided.

As it is, there is an obvious bias. 

After "lurking" I have realized that you are full of S***, and your post are worthless. You are the most bias person in these forums and you got owned hardcore (like 4 dudes 1 female, your the female) by Cpt Bthimes. To bad he got banned.