Southern Crux.

I recently placed an arguement in another thread but since I have been accused of bad practice and it degenerated into a slinging match. There for I am going to host a new discussion and ask for serious disscussion. No name calling (I am guilty of that as well in the old thread).

OK HERE GOES!

The Southern Crux is a group of stars that navigators have used to circumvent the southern hemisphere or for the Flat earth group the area rim-wards of the equator. The reason for this is it can always be found in the same spot as it lies directly above the southern pole. This is just like the pole star that is found over the north pole. On a flat earth the Southern Crux cannot be always seen in the south because as the world turns naturally its possition would move to the west. Can there be any explanation for this phenomenom unless the world is round and as such there are two points on the globe where it spins on its axis (north and south pole). Therefore there can be two points at which the stars appear to rotate on.

So far the only explanation I have had for this has come from Spacemonkeynz:

You can see it, but it isn't in the same place in the sky.

The further south you are, the higher the crux will be in the sky, the closer to the equator you are, the lower it will be in the sky.

Also, as the Earth rotates, it causes all the stars to rotate around the celestial southern pole. So therefore what stars you can see depends on where you are, and when.

It is true that as you travel further south the position of the crux will change as it will seem higher in the sky. That statement works for both models. However it doesn't explain how they can always been seen anywhere in the southern hemisphere at anytime. The second point is confusing I presume he means the north pole as a flat earth doesn't have a south pole! And this is true for anyone living in the North but it won't work for the south.

I leave the floor for an arguement against mine.

However it doesn't explain how they can always been seen anywhere in the southern hemisphere at anytime. The second point is confusing I presume he means the north pole as a flat earth doesn't have a south pole! And this is true for anyone living in the North but it won't work for the south.

That statement is false. Thus the debate is aborted. Thus that repetition phenomenon.

Its a statement of fact, it can be confirmed by anyone in the southernhemisphere...admitadly its difficult to see near the  equator but because its a group of stars not directly above the south pole you can see them. this can be confirmed by anyone living in australia or south africa or south america very easily.

Its a statement of fact, it can be confirmed by anyone in the southernhemisphere...admitadly its difficult to see near the  equator but because its a group of stars not directly above the south pole you can see them. this can be confirmed by anyone living in australia or south africa or south america very easily.

Okay, I will humor you for a moment and take your words as gospel. Point out to me, these people. Anyone is a rather large statistical variant. I am all ears.

good point, I make an amendment Anywhere 34 degrees latitude in the southern hemisphere. Anyone, Anywhere within these parameters will see the southern Crux provided they are, outside, its night time, there are no clouds in the sky and in fact there is nothing obstucting there view of the night sky, obstructions include blindness.

good point, I make an amendment Anywhere 34 degrees latitude in the southern hemisphere. Anyone, Anywhere within these parameters will see the southern Crux provided they are, outside, its night time, there are no clouds in the sky and in fact there is nothing obstucting there view of the night sky, obstructions include blindness.

Ok. Can these people validate this rather broad brushstroke?

they tell you, they live in the southern hemisphere. er they take photo's, hmm see I can see where this is going, unless i drag you to the southern hemisphere and show you my self everyone will be liers and everything will be fake. You guys are paranoid aren't you?

I could show you pictures but they would be fake but heres one for you how did the settlers arrive in australia? don't say with a compass. Basicly if you head south you need to be able to take a reading of your location, before accurate clocks and subsequently GPS this could only be done via a fixed point reference. In the northern hemisphere this is polaris. In the southern hemisphere... there isn't one unless the Crux stays put. And I know your going to say that how did they do it in the day, they took measurements of there speed and the time they had traveled, this is fine for 24 hours but it needs to be recalculated at night as its not that accurate. So basicly if you say that there is no fixed point then southern navigation is next to impossible.

The Southern Crux is a group of stars that navigators have used to circumvent the southern hemisphere or for the Flat earth group the area rim-wards of the equator. The reason for this is it can always be found in the same spot as it lies directly above the southern pole. This is just like the pole star that is found over the north pole. On a flat earth the Southern Crux cannot be always seen in the south because as the world turns naturally its possition would move to the west. Can there be any explanation for this phenomenom unless the world is round and as such there are two points on the globe where it spins on its axis (north and south pole). Therefore there can be two points at which the stars appear to rotate on.

The Southern Cross does not lie directly above the southern pole. The southern hemisphere does not have a pole star. However, you can use the Southern Cross to work out where the southern pole is.

I'm interested to see what they'll say about this...

yeah i know im taking liberties, but its a far cry than saying everyone in the south are liers.

*BUMP*

I could show you pictures but they would be fake but heres one for you how did the settlers arrive in australia? don't say with a compass. Basicly if you head south you need to be able to take a reading of your location, before accurate clocks and subsequently GPS this could only be done via a fixed point reference. In the northern hemisphere this is polaris. In the southern hemisphere... there isn't one unless the Crux stays put. And I know your going to say that how did they do it in the day, they took measurements of there speed and the time they had traveled, this is fine for 24 hours but it needs to be recalculated at night as its not that accurate. So basicly if you say that there is no fixed point then southern navigation is next to impossible.

According to some Flat Earthers, Australia doesn't actually exist, and therefore the problem of how it was discovered it solved.

Kind Regards,

David F.

It should also be pointed out that the southern cross is used on a number of southern hemishere flags due to his high importance in navigation of the southern hemisphere.

You will find this on the flags of Australia, New Zealand and many south pacific islands.

This thread has been ignored and I believe there is an important discrepancy here that needs to be addressed. It wasn't explicitly stated previously (actually I think Cunnah was trying to make a different point) so I will point out what I perceive as a flaw in the FET.

By using the Southern Cross and the pointers it is possible to determine the position of south.

Using this method why doesn't the position of south change as the Southern Cross's position changes in the night sky?

I love how none of the serious FE'ers have argued against this

I think I'd appreciate anybody answering this (FEer, REer, BEer).

I think I'd appreciate anybody answering this (FEer, REer, BEer).

ok

conspiracy

Gee, thankyou. I think I'll go find a BEer.

...

The Southern Crux is a group of stars that navigators have used to circumvent the southern hemisphere or for the Flat earth group the area rim-wards of the equator. The reason for this is it can always be found in the same spot as it lies directly above the southern pole. This is just like the pole star that is found over the north pole. On a flat earth the Southern Crux cannot be always seen in the south because as the world turns naturally its possition would move to the west. Can there be any explanation for this phenomenom unless the world is round and as such there are two points on the globe where it spins on its axis (north and south pole). Therefore there can be two points at which the stars appear to rotate on.

So far the only explanation I have had for this has come from Spacemonkeynz:

Quote

You can see it, but it isn't in the same place in the sky.

The further south you are, the higher the crux will be in the sky, the closer to the equator you are, the lower it will be in the sky.

Also, as the Earth rotates, it causes all the stars to rotate around the celestial southern pole. So therefore what stars you can see depends on where you are, and when.

It is true that as you travel further south the position of the crux will change as it will seem higher in the sky. That statement works for both models. However it doesn't explain how they can always been seen anywhere in the southern hemisphere at anytime. The second point is confusing I presume he means the north pole as a flat earth doesn't have a south pole! And this is true for anyone living in the North but it won't work for the south.

I leave the floor for an arguement against mine.

Here's the next challenge: $200 goes to the charity of Gayer's choice for a satisfactory answer based on FE to the following scenario. Independent reviewer this time will be an accountant. Gayer to select the final answer for FES. Deadline for answer is June 8, 2007.

On the equinox at 0.0 UTC, two observers, one in Auckland, New Zealand View of Sky--Auckland and the other in Perth, Australia View of Sky--Perth look south and both see Crux almost directly south of them and a faint star, Sigma Octantis, directly south. Auckland is on longitude 174 E. Perth is on longitude 116 E. In RE, this is explained by Sigma Octantis lying nearly directly over the South Pole, and Crux nearby. In FE, both observers see the same star in two different directions at the same time.

Why do I keep getting responsibilities here Gully?